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Hockeyzombie

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Posts posted by Hockeyzombie


  1. 10 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

     

     

    Come on guys! He just copied my idea and changed it from a rebel scum fear perspective .:P

    As much as I want to lob eight red and eight blue at somebody (with X17 Turbolasers to shut down Redirects of course), the ability to one shot basically anything is maybe a bit much. Let's be real, between the basically guaranteed accuracy result and either SW7s or Leading Shots, I'm getting a kill per attack with 16 dice. 


  2. Current plan is to be ready for a game with simple upgrades, and ask if he'd rather do that or the core set. Either way I'll give him his choice of faction. I'll also have three fairly basic objectives picked out for the first "real" game with fleets that can use them, something basic like Advanced Gunnery or Opening Salvo. Either way I'm going to keep it simple on squadrons. TIE Fighters, X-Wings, maybe Y-Wings and TIE Bombers. Maybe Luke and Howlrunner just to demonstrate the unique squadrons but I think that can wait for the second game. I'll probably find time to build the lists at work, so I'll probably toss them up on the fleet building forum and see what people think of them. After all, if he does want to start with just the core set (or two) I can always just pull that stuff out. If he's up for a more advanced tutorial I'll need to be ready. 

    ...That and playing a house-ruled Corellian Conflict is showing me that building lists under unusual restrictions can be fun. At the very least I'm gonna build a couple basic 300 point lists just to amuse myself at work. If he wants to do a core set game first I can just use these lists as a sort of "final exam" or something like that. 


  3. 1 minute ago, Ma22a said:

    I run demo games at our local store and the best way I've found is 400 points keep the fleets to one upgrade each and basic fighters Ties xwings ywings etc

    Let them choose which fleet to play and crack on

    Then slowly progress the game upwards after that 2 upgrade fleets more variety of fighters then 3 upgrades etc.

    Depends how many demo games you get with a new player course.

    I'm expecting to have time for somewhere around 2-4, depending on heavily on how the first one goes. If I do end up just using the contents of a core it and then using two cores, it could go pretty fast. If I use larger fleets that will naturally slow it down a bit as more ships will require a lot more thought. 

     

    1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

    Explain your gameplan before you start. Dont surprise them with unexpected play. 

     

    Yeah, I'm thinking I'll have a couple of basic 200 point lists ready and then ask if he wants to try the core set only, or play with the 200 point lists. Upgrades would be minimal and just do things like grant rerolls or extra dice. He's played X-Wing and a lot of different RPGs so I know he can handle complexity, and he's presumably pretty familiar with the 'exact words' nature of most upgrade cards. I'll leave objectives out of it at first just because the basic ones usually require playing towards a given strategy or would otherwise provide too much of an advantage to me. I'll leave those for when he has a feel for the turn structure and everything. 


  4. At the very least I'm likely to double up, as if we were using two cores. That way the Victory doesn't have to spam navigates just to avoid getting flanked. I suppose we can get through it reasonably quickly. Still, any suggestions on things I definitely should/shouldn't do for the 300 point game? I want to introduce at least one upgrade with a critical effect, as well as commanders. Squadrons will probably be simple but I might give each side an ace. Luke and Howlrunner probably. 


  5. 7 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

    This would be awful.

    If you haven't seen me play Devastator, then you may not be aware of the ramifications of this.  It basically makes Imperial ships impossible to fail with.  And that sounds great until you realize that it makes it impossible to play anything else.  Imagine what happens when everyone is toting SW7 Ion batteries everywhere on ships that roll 3-4 blue dice.  It just becomes a massive shooting gallery of ships rolling a guaranteed damage minimum.  The whole concept of randomized dice becomes completely meaningless.

    Even if this was a previously viable method for increasing the threat of Imperial ships, the upgrade selection makes it a nightmare scenario now.

    I fear Demolisher more than any mere ion cannon. Actually, Gladiators in general would be horrifying with four black dice at medium range. Or maybe that ion cannon that takes away defence tokens. That would be...should I say good or bad here? I mean, it'd be powerful as hell but also bad for the game.


  6. Next Saturday I'll be teaching someone how to play Armada. He's not new to miniatures games, so he should learn fairly quickly. I was thinking 300 point lists without a lot of the more complicated cards. I don't want to just run a core set game, because I find it a little dull and it doesn't really feel like a full game of Armada*. I'm thinking I'll mostly use long or medium range ships, since they're more forgiving than a Gladiator or MC30. I'm also planning to go light on squadrons for both lists. I do know I want to include an ISD and one of the MC80 variations in the lists, but I could be talked down if someone can convince me that I shouldn't. 

    My plan is to build two lists and give the other guy the option to play whichever he'd prefer. 300 is what I'm leaning towards but I'm interested in hearing suggestions. I'm also debating just building two identical lists but since they'd be Imperial I'm wondering if it would just turn into a brawl without a lot of strategy beyond praying to RNGesus for good rolls. 

     

    *I know that it isn't a full game of Armada but using just the core set doesn't seem like an accurate representation of what it's like to play a real game of Armada, hence the 300 points and simple upgrades approach. 


  7. 2 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

    Yeah but it would make some ships extremely overpowered. 

    Let's reduce things a little: when attacking a ship, your black dice may be used at medium range and your blue dice may be used at long range. 

    This still drastically increases the threat range and potency of every imperial ship to a point where you basically cannot approach them.   It also makes several ships effectively impossible to escape from such as Demolisher and Raiders.

    I want this to be a commander so bad now. That would be like a 40 point commander at least and I'd still have to talk myself out of using him every game. I'd say it should be what Thrawn does, except that thematically Thrawn should probably do something with command stacks. But this ability is certainly powerful enough to be worthy of Thrawn. 


  8. I've only ever had this problem with Magic: The Gathering, and that was mainly because a combination of working during Friday Night Magic and disinterest in the card pool made me lose interest in Standard. I still play, but I only play a format called "Commander" that rarely changes. New cards improve or create new decks, but the list of cards I can use only gets bigger. It probably helps that we're pretty casual about Armada. Triple VSDs can pose a significant threat most days, as long as you have Jerjerrod or move cleverly. 

    *For reference, Standard uses roughly the last two years worth of cards released so that it's reasonable for a new player to get into. It rotates when new sets of cards come out, knocking out the oldest set and replacing it with the new one. Commander doesn't rotate, it just has a list of banned cards that rarely changes. Keeping up with format rotations is something I really don't miss. 


  9. 4 hours ago, Norell said:

    Democracy in warfare. This must be good :D

    Imagine the plays they'd make with Anarchy mode. CR90s uselessly spinning in place (more or less), GR-75s charging gloriously into battle and then not spending defence tokens. Hera flies into a debris field and endlessly consults the Helix fossil. The Liberty is lost to friendly fire from a swarm of random squadrons. 

     

    Obviously for maximum comedy we'd have to allow units to attack friendly units. I know that isn't normally allowed.


  10. 7 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

    Then let me summarize what the #OtherTeam is saying. 

    Could that title do this? Yes. It could be. But it would open a discussion about fleet building that that title must clarify. Not saying the title won't do, just saying the title should do. Someone say that the mere existence of the title would clarify that, maybe not as the mere existence of all kind of upgrades card don't allow you to put them wherever you want. So with the title will be require the clarification about something is not clear in the rules. Dras actually added in his first answer that his position was based partially on advice given by Mr. Gernes even when he didn't say that was something definitive.

    The thing is that the easiest way to add a cross faction quasar would be a unique rebel quasar ship card,  not a title. Easier, indisputable and money-maker.

    I didn't see anything from Gernes, but it's possible that I missed it. My reasoning for the Rebel Quasar title being proof that list building isn't procedural is that as Dras has pointed out, the upgrade literally can't do anything if you have to check legality after each upgrade. I don't know what Gernes said but is it possible he meant that it's easiest to spot rule-breaking lists if you do it that way? I mean, the second I go over 134 in squadrons I make adjustments so that I don't accidentally complete a list that can't be played. 

    I don't see that a Rebel title would cause any issues with the rules as they currently exist. I can see why it would probably end up in an FAQ, it's just that if the title does exist then it seems inevitable that the FAQ will basically say "yes, you can add the Quasar to your Rebel lists as long as this title is equipped to it." At present if it can be taken in a Rebel list it looks like it has to be through a title, since there's no sign of a Rebel Alliance back for the card. I suppose that could be something they left out of the wave six reveal so they could drop it as the big bombshell of the Quasar reveal. Or maybe the Armada designers that check this forum are reading this thread and rolling their eyes at the nonsense we come up with. If so, hey guys! When's the Executor coming out and will it be the herald of Epic Armada?

    I agree with you on just making an actual Rebel Quasar being simpler. That also allows them to tweak it a bit, by adding or removing upgrade slots or adjusting the points cost. Make it feel a little different than the Imperial Quasar. That would be a good thing to include if/when they make another campaign box. I've been hoping that they add a special mission that lets you "steal" an enemy ship--like, if you capture Kuat you can add (slightly modified) Star Destroyers to a Rebel list, or something. Maybe certain ships require control of certain planets before you can add them to your list, but having access to an enemy ship lets you take slightly weaker versions of it or something. That would probably be a campaign only thing but they could add cross-faction ships that are playable in regular games to the box along with the campaign only variants. 


  11. 18 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

    Well, We've been arguing it since reveal, after all.

     

    And yes, I am getting annoyed.  Mostly because unlike what I aspire to do - utilise logical discussion and rules precedence - I instead get veiled abuse, snickering and hyperbole.  Which is intended to do nothing but annoy and belittle.

    But I'm allowed to be annoyed.

    Just as people are allowed to annoy.

    This is the internet, after all.

    I'm not really trying to be annoying, I'm just succeeding without effort. I believe that means I'm living the American Dream. 

     

    Nostromoid may have been rather sarcastic about it, but his post does kind of summarize my argument. As I've said, I don't really have an opinion on whether or not the mystery title will allow Rebels to take the ship. But if it does then Nostromoid demonstrated why I would consider that absolute proof that you only check your list for legality after you've finished building it. Sorry if I came across as making fun of you, I was mostly just mildly frustrated by what I considered to be a dumb argument. 

    As for my #TeamMauve/Peridot thing, I'm just jumping in on the joke Nostromoid started. 

     

    Honestly at this point, I kind of hope the title doesn't do any cross-faction shenanigans. That would be neat and all but can you imagine the reaction on these forums if the Quasar preview started hyping up how there's only one title, but boy howdy it's a doozy!

    ...And then it's just something like "when you reveal a command dial you may gain a squadron token." Or anything else that's pretty good but not in a weird, unprecedented way like a faction-changing title would be. Imagine watching new members of the forum try to figure out, months after release, why people seem to have this weird aversion to the Quasar title(s) despite being perfectly playable. If that happens please respond to all questions about the titles with that picture of Leia looking frustrated. 


  12. ARE WE ANNOYING YOU DRAS ARE WE?

     

    Shenanigans and arguing aside we may as well just wait for the preview of the Quasar. The reveal (or lack thereof) of a faction-changing title should settle things. And we have something else for the forum to argue over! Can you spend a command token if it matches the command you used Leia's ability on? I'm leaning no, but I can at least understand the reasoning that the other argument hinges on. I wouldn't mind if it was actually a thing you can do, of course. That would settle the "is Leia worth 38 points" question pretty much instantly. 


  13. 6 hours ago, Nostromoid said:

    FAQ: Can a Rebel player use the Quasar Fire title, which says 'This ship may be added to a Rebel fleet,' to do the thing that it says on the card?

    A: No. This upgrade is actually unplayable, and we couldn't find a loophole in our own airtight procedural list creation rules to let this exception happen. The technically-correct reading of the RRG that says a ship must be of the appropriate faction before it can assign titles takes priority here.

    Weeks, months of silence will go by before this clarification comes down. Tournament players will lose sleep wondering how TOs will adjudicate it. The discussion thread will crash the forums server. Brother will be pitted against brother in the great conflict of our time: Team Mauve versus Team Peridot. Ben Skywalker will sell all your collections on eBay. With no other recourse, FFG soon announces Armada Second Edition.

    #TeamMauve

    Or am I #TeamPeridot? Either way I hate those other guys. 


  14. 1 hour ago, evanger said:

    One problem with this interesting theory: the BACK of the face down ship card is Imperial gray/black, not Rebel red/white.

    The idea is that the face-down title is something like "You may use this ship in a Rebel list." If that's what it is, then presumably the back of the ship card wouldn't matter as long as you equip the title. 


  15. 13 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

    Well, you have missed the "point" of the argument, and the point is a rules discussion.

    It start off as an "this is happening, because it is awesome."

    and then it became me saying , "This can't happen just like that, because these rules stand in the way."

     

    My own point was that list building is not explicitly stated to be procedural, which seems to be the focus of the rules argument. Currently it doesn't really matter if it is, since upgrades that add upgrade slots are a pretty minor detail (it's not like anyone's getting disqualified because they took out the card for ECM before the card for Tua). My argument is that if they really do include a title that says "You may take this ship in a Rebel list as long as this title is equipped," then obviously list building only requires a check for legality after you say you're done. Unless there was a rules email I'm unaware of, they've never actually said that list building checks legality with each addition or change the player makes. I mean, if it did would that make some of my lists illegal because there were times when I accidentally added too many squadrons? 

    Basically, I find the idea of procedural list building strange because it seems more complicated than necessary. Either way my list must be legal when I present it to my opponent so we can determine initiative, so why would we add a bunch of legality checks to the list building process? And like I've said, if the title really does let the Rebels steal the Quasar that would essentially mean that FFG uses this logic as well because the title wouldn't work otherwise. 

    That said I apologize if I came across as hostile. I do think this discussion is pointless, since it all depends on what an unrevealed upgrade does and at present we don't even know enough bout the  Quasar to evaluate if the Rebels even want the stupid thing. If we had more information on it we could discuss it's possible uses in a Rebel list but without a point cost or full knowledge of available upgrades that's hard to do. I do think most speculation on "what if [faction] gets [EU/Legends ship]???" is pointless but I see the fun in throwing out ideas on what the stats of a Venator or Lucrehulk would be. I get that you're the rules guy, but we don't actually have a ruling on this unless the title (indirectly) clarifies it. 

    I can respect the frustration involved in having to wave the RRG at people all the time. I had a surprising amount of difficulty explaining that Jamming Barrier gives you the "larger half" of your dice pool, because my opponent thought that "remove half, rounded down" meant you keep the rounded down amount. 

    14 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

    Besides, this has continued the discussion of "veterans pack", "campaign box" versus "brand new release" for a Rebel variant.   Which people were not even considering from day one.  The statement that its the sort of thing that would be hyped from first image...    Yes.  Pointless. 

     

    I didn't mean they would hype it in the wave six reveal. I mean that when they do a more detailed preview of the Quasar, there's no way they don't hype it as the first cross-faction ship in Armada. Assuming that the title actually does that, of course. I'm not really certain either way that the title does anything like that and I'm not sure if I want it to. I'd rather see that in a campaign box as a special objective or something. I do like to see that people have apparently remembered that the Aces/Veterans packs in X-Wing could be done in Armada. So many people seem to think the VSD is dead and never coming back, and it just makes me think of the TIE Defender.


  16. 19 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

    Oh, man, this bickering is pointless? :D

    Moreso than most, yes. Like I've said, the reveal of the title card will settle it. Either it says "Rebels can use this" in which case list building does not use a "check at every step" method or there's no such title and it really makes no difference if list building is procedural or not. As much as I roll my eyes at a lot of the debates about squadrons or which ship is dead this week, at least in those we can learn something that doesn't depend on a preview article. Even if I think the VSD is perfectly usable, seeing why some hyperbolic person thinks it's a useless ship might make me aware of weaknesses I hadn't considered or was dismissive of. The Rebel Quasar debate basically boils down to arguing about whether there will be a title like that, because if there is such a title it immediately resolves the debate about procedural list building. Since we need a preview article to know (because there's no way they'd leave such a title out of the preview article) this is basically just one group shouting "it will happen" and another shouting "no it won't" back. 

     

    I mean if you guys were having fun arguing about whether building a list requires checking legality every time you add an upgrade then...okay, how? I genuinely can't see why that would be enjoyable. But you do you, I guess? 


  17. This bickering is pointless. Either the title does not have anything to do with letting the Rebels have the Quasar, in which case it doesn't matter because the idea of procedural list building is only relevant to this one specific (hypothetical) upgrade, or it DOES allow the Rebels to use the Quasar in which case list building obviously isn't procedural because the title wouldn't work if it was. As I said before, it only matters if list building is procedural for this one card that may not even exist, and if that card does exist then it answers the question entirely. 


  18. On 4/26/2017 at 10:31 AM, Drasnighta said:

    You can't take a Ship Card if its affilation is different to yours.

     - The question is, "Is that when I take it, or is that at the end of the list build?"

     

    If the title really does allow the Rebels to take the ship, that kind of answers the question though. If that's actually what the card does, then in order for it to do anything list building has to boil down to "if it's legal when you say it's done, then you're good." 

    Would Phoenix Home be relevant here? I suppose that's different because you can add the Pelta, then Phoenix Home, then the extra crew. But I do find it hard to imagine that you couldn't just add both ship and title to your list, if (if) that title does allow Rebels to field the Quasar. 

    Obviously everything hinges on the idea that the title actually does that. If it doesn't, then it's irrelevant anyway. If it does, then that basically confirms that your list can be whatever as long as it's legal when you present it. Outside of that it would only matter for houserules (which can be whatever) or a future campaign of some kind, which would presumably spell out how you go about fielding stolen ships or feature ship cards to represent them. 


  19. ECM if it's an ISD II. Gunnery Teams if it's the ISD I, then add Minister Tua and ECMs next round. For any VSDs, it's probably going to depend on how your opponent(s) play but X17s are pretty great. I like Assault Proton Torpedoes myself but I think I have more success than most at getting multiple shots at close range with my front arcs. Jerry will help a lot with that, though. 


  20. I was actually thinking of casting a Raise Dead and seeing how many of these I was right about. May as well take the opportunity I've been granted. 

    1) I was completely wrong. Squadron rating turned out totally different. If I had been right, Rebel ships would need to be more expensive by (on average) 5-20 points. Also presumably the squadron command wouldn't exist? Armada would be a very different game if I'd been right, it's hard to imagine what other changes would have resulted from this one. 

    2) Looking at only at stuff that's exclusive to the core set, there's Howlrunner and Luke. I'm not familiar with the tournament meta so I'm not suer if Leia counts but I almost always have her in a GR75 when I play Rebels. Adding wave one into the mix gives us Demolisher, Rhymer, and Yavaris. I'm not counting Admirals because there's not that many and as a mandatory inclusion they're almost all bound to show up on a fairly regular basis. Except Ozzel and Garm, I suppose. 

    3) The turrets thing was just a joke about X-Wing and the rage caused by the Millenium Falcon not being restricted to a firing arc. Move along. 

    (last I checked there's still salt about turrets in the X-Wing forums though)

    4) Apparently I was right on this one. I remember having to remind myself and others constantly when I got back into Armada. 

    5) I don't think it's overcosted, but I still end up wondering if I should just use two basic Fighters. At this point it depends mostly on how many squadrons I have otherwise, and if I care about Bomber more than Swarm. It seems this is a common dilemma.

    6) There's been a small surge in necromancy lately. Like this thread for instance. And I did laugh at my own squadron prediction.

    7) My friend quit for a year or so because Imperials were (almost) all front arcs and Rebels were (sort) all broadsides. Does that count? He quit shortly after wave two and I got back in after wave five (he followed soon after). I've seen more arguing about whether or not Snipe is garbage than I've seen about the Victory. If anything the Victory seems a bit unpopular. 

    8) Saw like three threads discussing Scum and Villainy in the past month or two. Also at least two discussing the Clone Wars and New Republic/First Order, and whether they should be a part of Armada or a separate but compatible game. 

    9) I don't know about everyone else's finances, but I'm surprisingly not broke. Admittedly the fact that I play Magic a lot more casually now is probably why. Also I finally learned some really basic budgeting--when I go to buy a new board or tabletop game I ask, "but will I play this or just play Armada?" and then I put it back on the shelf. When I go to buy a video game, I remind myself that I still have The Witcher 3 but haven't played it yet. This has been incredibly effective at keeping me out of poverty. 


  21. 13 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

    The only card I think that is broken in an OP way is Rieekan. 

    Agreed, if he's used in a CR90 ram list. He's pretty strong in a normal list but in those he's not really a "problem" beyond the way you expect a 30 point Admiral to be a problem. 

     

    Discussions like this almost make me glad that Armada is kind of small where I live. It can be frustrating when it seems like it almost always just me and the same guy playing against each other but it's also nice not having to care or even know what the meta currently is, since "the meta" here means "whatever I feel like playing." I think the Corellian Conflict was the only time I played the same list more than once, although I've played a few modifications of the same list now an again. I feel like I'm in a good spot, where I'm at least somewhat familiar with each ship but I haven't lapsed into habits when building lists. Not everything feels new and exciting, but there's still a lot of unexplored ground for me (or my opponent) to try new combinations of ships, squadrons, and upgrades. 

    I'm absolutely stuck in a rut objective-wise, though. Station Assault/Contested Outpost/Minefields, or Precision Strike/Fighter Ambush/Superior Positions. All the freaking time. Planning to pick a trio of objectives and build around them to try and break this habit. 


  22. 50 minutes ago, Teloch said:

    Like when Kit Harrington told everyone Jon Snow wasn't comming back? lol

    Exactly. When Daisy said that it was "incredibly obvious" my first thought was that she was just joking around. It seems to be working, since there are a few plausible theories as to who her family is (Rey Skywalker and Rey Solo being the strongest so far) and both seem obvious, but in a "no that's too obvious" way. SO people who believe either theory can interpret her comment as confirmation that they were right, while people that don't think she's a Skywalker or a Solo can still take it as evidence towards their guesses. Top level shenanigans, really. 

    I did see people on Imgur speculating that she's an Antilles, but how many of them were kidding is hard to determine. Someone remarked that she's an amazing pilot and added "who else was an amazing pilot," either forgetting that Luke and Han both qualify or deliberately being vague because they both qualify. People followed that up by basically listing every good pilot in Star Wars, including Sebulba. 

    As for me I actually don't care much either way, the movies will get there when they get there. I don't think we have enough information to actually figure it out, just enough to make stabs in the dark. I do kind of like the idea that Obi Wan is her grandfather but that would require an explanation on how Obi Wan of all people wound up having a kid. I also kind of like the idea of her being an Antilles but that may be my fanboyism rising up a bit. 

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