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Luke Licens

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Posts posted by Luke Licens


  1. Can Chopper's "Ram" action be used to push friendly models?

    "Move up to 2 spaces, then choose an adjacent figure. If that figure is hostile, roll 1 green die. It suffers * equal to the * results. Then, if that figure was small, push it up to one space."

    "Move up to 2 spaces, then choose an adjacent figure. If that figure is hostile, roll 1 green die. It suffers * equal to the * results. Then, if that figure was small, push it up to one space."

    swi43-c1-10p.png


  2. I have a dumb idea, but I'd like you all to explain to me why it's a dumb idea.

    9xCorvette Bs with Ackbar. You can toss 18 red dice at long range from a broadside, or 18 red and 18 blue at medium range.  No obvious target priority other than the Fishman himself. Please discuss.


  3. So, I just picked up my Imperial Raider expansion, and I'm bound and determined to run a gaggle of TIE Advanced/X1s at my next event.  I know they're not the most efficient ships, but I don't expect to win anyway and I want to see how well I can fly them against some of the meta-lists I'm expecting to see like 4Ys with TLTs, BBBBZ, and Corran/Dash.

    These are what I've come up with, and I'd like to hear some thoughts.  Thanks all.
     

    ONCOMING STORM
    99 points
    PILOTS
    Darth Vader (30)
    TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)
    Lieutenant Colzet (23)
    TIE Advanced (23), TIE/x1 (0), Accuracy Corrector (3)

    Storm Squadron Pilot (23) x 2

    TIE Advanced (23), TIE/x1 (0), Accuracy Corrector (3)
     

    TEMPESTUOUS
    100 points
    PILOTS
    Darth Vader (30)
    TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)
    Juno Eclipse (28)
    TIE Advanced (28), TIE/x1 (0), Accuracy Corrector (3)
    Tempest Squadron Pilot (21) x 2
    TIE Advanced (21), TIE/x1 (0), Accuracy Corrector (3)
     
    LET'S PLAY TELEGRAPH
    99 points
    PILOTS
    Darth Vader (34)
    TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)
    Juno Eclipse (33)
    TIE Advanced (28), TIE/x1 (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)
    Maarek Stele (32)
    TIE Advanced (27), TIE/x1 (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

     


  4. As a rule, I don't ask anyone to let me fix my mistakes.  If I notice I made one, I'll point it out;

    "Whoops, I started moving this ship before I took my action with this one.  Oh well."

    I never ask for an exception, and if it's offered I ask my opponent "Are you sure? It was my screw-up."

    When a measurement, distance, or bump is questionable, I ask my opponent to rule on it unless there's a convenient 3rd party to ask. When my opponent asks me to judge these things, I usually rule in their favor.

    This weekend, I accidentally flew an A-Wing off into oblivion because I dropped a bank to the right instead of the left and went right off the board.  We had both been playing for 12 hours at that point, and I didn't ask for a take-back, even though I was sure I'd get one if I asked.  Instead, my opponent and I just laughed about it and moved on even though it was the deciding game of the tournament.  That, to me, was the epitome of Fly Casual.  It was a tight game and we both had fun.


  5.  

    Devil's Advocate reporting as ordered!

     

    Point 4) Marketability of the Work

    As both of the mods are released for free, they are not displacing profit.  As the rules of the game and the complete text of all official cards found in said mods are released by FFG free of charge, their reproduction in the mods does not displace any profit.  Can you play with these mods in an official FFG tournament, or at your FLGS? They do not displace the original.

    It all boils down to this.  The mods are just playing digital proxies online.  If they try to shut down the mods for using the cards, they're going to have to shut down every third party wiki and fansite that posts copies of the cards, rulebooks, or the text from either.  And they're going to have to stop posting the rules for free on their website.  And stop writing articles with card text and images in them.  Basicly, they're going to have to irradicate their online presence.

    You all remember the last company that went full draconian on their game's rules like that? Nobody likes them anymore.

     

     

    Lol - awesome - loved the Devi's Advocate thing 

     

    But - I think I will argue with the 4th point - I disagree that it does not have the potential to displace profit (do I think it IS at the moment - probably not) because even more so than Vassal, the Steam version is an almost exact simulation of the physical game.

     

    The fact that the rules are posted by FFG online for reference does not matter from a Fair Use perspective (which is what I was arguing against as several people had, in my opinion, offered Fair Use as a defense) - nor does maker the source of actual digital representation (ok - I may be arguing a different point there but nonetheless - just because I open up Photoshop or even pen and paper and make a representation of Mickey Mouse and sell it as an attempt at an accurate representation of Mickey Mouse (not as a parody)  he fact I did the drawing does not make me the designer or license holder of the property. The same is true of the starship models, bases, cards, dice, template, pegs, everything about that app is a duplication of which they do not have license to replicate)

     

    Card images represented on a wiki do not enable me to play the game without purchasing the core set.

     

    I see this a lot on the forum because this forum members tend to be an isolated sub-set of a given community - I suspect that people vastly overestimate the amount of game play that occurs in game stores vs casual games with friends. I've never stepped foot in a game store (but live in an area that has many), nor will I go to a tournament. But I am an active member here, and I paint models, etc.... I've also shared the game with half a dozen guys that really like it but haven't (and probably won't) purchase. Yet, I could contact those friends who really enjoy the real game but have not purchased it and we could dial in a play on Steam and there would be no real reason for them to purchase the actual set. Why would you? You have all the expansions, all the cards, everything you need to play an almost 100% simulation of the actual game - and you pay money to boot - except Disney and FFG get none of that - nor are they in control of any of the extra content or interactions that may occur. 

     

    If there isn't a marketable infringement on the work at this time, the potential for there to be is certainly greater than Vassal. This app makes no bones about taking everything in the core game and expansions, taking money (on some level), and reproducing the exact experience online with no license. But I'm not a lawyer :)

     

    *note: I'm not saying it's not cool and wish that FFG would do something like Disney Infinity and officially support an online version - I just think they are clearly infringing.

     

     

    The makers of Tabletop Simulator, who created a wonderful sandbox for people to build toys in and deserve to be compensated for their work, are not infringing.  The modders who make the the XWMG mod MAY be interpreted as infringing, but have solid arguments to refute it.

    As much as anyone claims that Vassal isn't infringing because it doesn't include rules or card text, those are the parts you don't need to buy because FFG gives them away.  FFG doesn't care about third party tokens, 3rd party rulers, 3rd party playmats.  The biggest thing that Vassal and the XWMG mod for TTS do is replace the need to buy ships.  The thing is, the people who play exclusively through digital proxy platforms like this are the people who aren't going to buy ships anyway, either because they don't have anyone local to play with, so why bother, or because they can't afford to buy a core set, or because they don't want to buy more physical things.

     

    I'd guess than most users of both of the digital proxies use them to supplement their physical gaming, not replace it.  Vassal and the XWMG mod are just a form of 'try before you buy' and free advertising.


  6. Devil's Advocate reporting as ordered!

     

     

    Regarding Fair use
     
    There's no way the Steam app falls under any logical definition of Fair Use.
     
     
    1. Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes:
     
    "Additionally, “transformative” uses are more likely to be considered fair. Transformative uses are those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work."
     
    Steam: fail
    Vassal: borderline, but reasonable
     

     

     
    2. Nature of the copyrighted work:
    "This factor analyzes the degree to which the work that was used relates to copyright’s purpose of encouraging creative expression. Thus, using a more creative or imaginative work (such as a novel, movie, or song) is less likely to support a claim of a fair use than using a factual work" 
     
    Both probably fail on this point but again, Vassal is at least attempting to not use all the copyrighted material
     
    Steam: fail
    Vassal: borderline
     
    (3) Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole: 
    "Under this factor, courts look at both the quantity and quality of the copyrighted material that was used. If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found; if the use employs only a small amount of copyrighted material, fair use is more likely."
     
    Steam: epic fail
    Vassal: borderline, but reasonable attempt made
     
    (4) Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work:
    "Here, courts review whether, and to what extent, the unlicensed use harms the existing or future market for the copyright owner’s original work. In assessing this factor, courts consider whether the use is hurting the current market for the original work (for example, by displacing sales of the original) and/or whether the use could cause substantial harm if it were to become widespread."
     
    Steam: super epic fail
    Vassal: win
     
    "In addition to the above, other factors may also be considered by a court in weighing a fair use question, depending upon the circumstances." - such as Disney being super up-tight about enforcing their rights - to the point of threatening going to court over drawings of Disney characters at a preschool in Florida, or removing modification thread aggregation from this site. The Steam mod is actually making money on Disney material without license. So.....'good luck...you're gonna need it'
     
    Lando-Good-Luck.gif

     


    Point 1) Transformative:

    Both mods can be considered transformative, as they allow real time long distance gameplay via a digital medium.  The tabletop game is for in person tabletop gaming, and has no first party digital support. Much like a fax machine and a slide projector, they do different things, and aren't interchangeable.


    Point 2) Nature of the Work:

    Both mods utilize fan made resources.  The ship models in both mods are fan built.  US courts have upheld that a photograph of a photograph can be considered original art.  Disney has shied away from suits against not-for-profit art-use because of the public backlash.  Everybody cites that daycare story, but it was 30 years ago.  Have you heard of any recent ones?

    Point 3) Amount of the Work

     

    The cards.  The rest is fan made by modders.

    Point 4) Marketability of the Work

    As both of the mods are released for free, they are not displacing profit.  As the rules of the game and the complete text of all official cards found in said mods are released by FFG free of charge, their reproduction in the mods does not displace any profit.  Can you play with these mods in an official FFG tournament, or at your FLGS? They do not displace the original.



    It all boils down to this.  The mods are just playing digital proxies online.  If they try to shut down the mods for using the cards, they're going to have to shut down every third party wiki and fansite that posts copies of the cards, rulebooks, or the text from either.  And they're going to have to stop posting the rules for free on their website.  And stop writing articles with card text and images in them.  Basicly, they're going to have to irradicate their online presence.

    You all remember the last company that went full draconian on their game's rules like that? Nobody likes them anymore.
     


  7. A question for all you folks who've been hands on with these kits:

    How do they look "out of the box"? They're theoretically no-glue no-paint kits, and I know that all of the beauty shots have considerable amounts of touch up done, but how do they look before the touch ups?

    ScootyPuffJunior, how much of that (amazing) weathering and fine detail work is yours, and how much is factory?

    It's been a long time since I held a brush, and I want to know what I'm getting myself into.


  8. I want ALL the Twin ion cards.

     

    Deathrain will work great with Advanced Sensors. Drop an action bomb, barrel roll to the side, fly away, profit.

     

    And Redline having two target locks? I throw my cluster missiles at you, I re-roll! I take another 2 with FCS, I throw the second attack at you, I RE-ROLL!!! And I still have 2 on you for the next turn with my extra munitions!

     

    Bonkers.

    How do you intend to barrel roll after using your action to drop a bomb? Deathrain has no EPT, so you can't PTL and EI triggers an "action" card after an action, so you couldn't use it to drop the bomb first.

    EDIT: I suppose you could use a Squad Leader to pass him an action, but at PS6 there aren't a lot of Imperial pilots that can, and only Vader has actions to spare.

     

    EDIT 2: I'm apparently blind, and missed the free barrel roll in his card text.  Carry on, internet, I'll be over here in the corner.


  9. A Pic and Gorc describes a more specific metagame than just two-ships. Gorc is a giant beefcake who deals massive amounts of damage entirely around him. Pic is annoying, tiny, and too fast to hit.

    As the two are the most frustrating boss-fight in the first Star Wars game that let you wield a Lightsaber, and the second game to use Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors, its not that obscure a reference.

     

    Funny, I don't remember any of those characters from Super Star Wars... :P

    Then again, you may be referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Jedi_Arena which I've never actually played. :rolleyes:


  10. Uh, a fascist dictatorship? You may want to qualify that statement, because right now, without any supporting arguments, you're coming off a little ridiculous.

     

    I love how the whole Empire=Nazis crowd hasn't even touched on the US Military's... less than stellar reputation.

     

    I served in the military for 6 years. I'd love for you to explain this tangent a little bit more.

    My guess is that they're equating what has been termed "collateral murder", civilian deaths generally attributed to bad intelligence, with the Empire's use of WMDs against its own citizens.  He might have a leg to stand on if the Pentagon had nuked an American city as a result of the Oklahoma City bombing.  If Afghanistan had been turned into a smoking sheet of glass in the wake of 9/11, the case would be more tenuous (as they weren't our citizens) but still compelling.

    That said, we've gone rather far afield from the original topic.  What were we talking about again?


  11.  

     

     

     

    As for the empire, I never read any EU stuff, but played a few games (battlefront, shadows of the empire) but I always thought of the rebels as terrorists. I guess part of it was being middle school aged when 9/11 happened, but they never really did anything to show that the rebels weren't just terrorists, and the Empire never did anything in the movies particulary heinous. I mean, they destroyed a sparsely populated planet hosting a serious terrorist cell\base/populatíon. The rebels killed at least millions if not billions of people on the death star...

     

    That's why I'm pro-empire...

    Sorry to go off on a tangent, but it is amazing what that statement reveals about changes in the psyche of people in the U.S. Post 9/11. The original trilogy contained a significant level of referencing the U.S.A's creation mythology* along with all the WW2 baggage. In the 1970s and 1980s it was nigh on unthinkable to side with the Empire.

    *Plucky band of rebels throw off the oppressive yoke of an oppressive empire and all that. You even have bad guys played by British actors to ram the point home.

     

    As I get older, I can start to see the side of the movie, but it screams War on Terror to someone who's psyche was formed around the Post-911 world. I was just young enough to know what changes occurred after 9/11, but old enough that it shaped the way I looked at things in a definite, recognizable and tangible way.

     

    The only reason I saw to think the empire is evil is the title crawl, where it calls them evil.

     

     

     

    I imagine the destruction of Alderaan, with billions of civilians on it, was more than enough to confirm that the guys that looked like bad guys were at least as evil as they looked. 

    It was intended to make them look evil. 

     

    But there is a million ways to look at it.

     

    I grew up Catholic, with the whole: "Life is sacred. So we kill to protect it." philosophy, while most Americans come from a more protestant background with the whole: "Life is sacred. We'd die before we'd take it." angle. 

     

    Add in the WW2 parallels (Death Star = Atom Bomb, but has the opposite reaction (Rebels band together instead of submit), and it makes the Empire look sympathetic, while the Rebels look misguided. Also, Alderaan is said to be sparsely populated and host to a serious terrorist population, which while it doesn't make it a lot better, does make it better than say destroying coruscant.

     

    "...I have chosen to test this station's destructive power on your home planet of Alderaan."

    "NO! Alderaan is peaceful! We have no weapons! You can't possibly..."

    "You would prefer another target? A MILITARY target? Then, name the system.  I grow tired of asking this, so it will be the last time: Where is the rebel base?"

    "Dantooine.  They're on Dantooine."

    "There, you see, Lord Vader, she can be reasonable.  Continue with the operation, you may fire when ready."

     

    "WHAT?!"

    "You're far too trusting. Dantooine is far to remote to make an effective demonstration, but don't worry, we will deal with your rebel friends soon enough."

     

    ter·ror·ism
    ˈterəˌrizəm/
    noun
    noun: terrorism
    the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

    "FEAR will keep the local systems in line.  Fear of this battle station."

    This is a government whose head of state has just dissolved the representative council of its constituency and intends to control its population through an official "doctrine of terror" whereby it indiscriminately murders millions, if not billions, of its own citizens in order to A) test the effectiveness of its WMD, B) prove its willingness to use said WMD against its own citizens, and C) hold the lives of innocent citizens hostage as a form of interrogation against anyone accused (but not tried or convicted) of treason.

    So, you're saying that you were convinced that this government is the goodguys?

    I find it hard to believe that anyone raised in a western nation post 9/11 could see the Empire as anything but villains after they attacked a civilian target in an attempt to punish a military organization and effect political change through terror.

     

     

    do you understand the principles of warfare and "will"?

     

     

    Do you understand the principles of the rules of war and war crimes?


  12.  

     

    As for the empire, I never read any EU stuff, but played a few games (battlefront, shadows of the empire) but I always thought of the rebels as terrorists. I guess part of it was being middle school aged when 9/11 happened, but they never really did anything to show that the rebels weren't just terrorists, and the Empire never did anything in the movies particulary heinous. I mean, they destroyed a sparsely populated planet hosting a serious terrorist cell\base/populatíon. The rebels killed at least millions if not billions of people on the death star...

     

    That's why I'm pro-empire...

    Sorry to go off on a tangent, but it is amazing what that statement reveals about changes in the psyche of people in the U.S. Post 9/11. The original trilogy contained a significant level of referencing the U.S.A's creation mythology* along with all the WW2 baggage. In the 1970s and 1980s it was nigh on unthinkable to side with the Empire.

    *Plucky band of rebels throw off the oppressive yoke of an oppressive empire and all that. You even have bad guys played by British actors to ram the point home.

     

    As I get older, I can start to see the side of the movie, but it screams War on Terror to someone who's psyche was formed around the Post-911 world. I was just young enough to know what changes occurred after 9/11, but old enough that it shaped the way I looked at things in a definite, recognizable and tangible way.

     

    The only reason I saw to think the empire is evil is the title crawl, where it calls them evil.

     

     

     

    I imagine the destruction of Alderaan, with billions of civilians on it, was more than enough to confirm that the guys that looked like bad guys were at least as evil as they looked. 

    It was intended to make them look evil. 

     

    But there is a million ways to look at it.

     

    I grew up Catholic, with the whole: "Life is sacred. So we kill to protect it." philosophy, while most Americans come from a more protestant background with the whole: "Life is sacred. We'd die before we'd take it." angle. 

     

    Add in the WW2 parallels (Death Star = Atom Bomb, but has the opposite reaction (Rebels band together instead of submit), and it makes the Empire look sympathetic, while the Rebels look misguided. Also, Alderaan is said to be sparsely populated and host to a serious terrorist population, which while it doesn't make it a lot better, does make it better than say destroying coruscant.

     

    "...I have chosen to test this station's destructive power on your home planet of Alderaan."

    "NO! Alderaan is peaceful! We have no weapons! You can't possibly..."

    "You would prefer another target? A MILITARY target? Then, name the system.  I grow tired of asking this, so it will be the last time: Where is the rebel base?"

    "Dantooine.  They're on Dantooine."

    "There, you see, Lord Vader, she can be reasonable.  Continue with the operation, you may fire when ready."

     

    "WHAT?!"

    "You're far too trusting. Dantooine is far to remote to make an effective demonstration, but don't worry, we will deal with your rebel friends soon enough."

     

    ter·ror·ism
    ˈterəˌrizəm/
    noun
    noun: terrorism
    the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

    "FEAR will keep the local systems in line.  Fear of this battle station."

    This is a government whose head of state has just dissolved the representative council of its constituency and intends to control its population through an official "doctrine of terror" whereby it indiscriminately murders millions, if not billions, of its own citizens in order to A) test the effectiveness of its WMD, B) prove its willingness to use said WMD against its own citizens, and C) hold the lives of innocent citizens hostage as a form of interrogation against anyone accused (but not tried or convicted) of treason.

    So, you're saying that you were convinced that this government is the goodguys?

    I find it hard to believe that anyone raised in a western nation post 9/11 could see the Empire as anything but villains after they attacked a civilian target in an attempt to punish a military organization and effect political change through terror.


  13.  

     

     

    Title:

    S-Foil Expert

    X-Wing only.

    Your action bar gains the SLAM action.

    1 Point

     

    ah .... no

    The SLAM is not just about a mechanical device ... like flaps or S-foils

    It is a sublight hyberdrive.

     

     

    What is the most common representation of what happens when an X-Wing closes its S-Foils?

    I'll give you a hint:

     

     

    You mean closing S-foils is just like closing the doors while driving in your car on a highway and this gives you the boost to travel twice as fast? Now I got it.

     

    It was a suggestion that uses an existing mechanic to address one of the X-Wing's shortcomings (lack of post-maneuver movement) in a thematic way.  Instead of attacking it as silly, perhaps you could address the game balance question of how the SLAM action would affect the ship.

    As far as in-universe rationalization, closing the S-Foils doesn't magically make the X-Wing go faster.  With the s-foils closed, power can be redirected from the non-functional weapons to the engines, allowing for a quick burst of speed.  If that explanation sounds familiar, you may have read this Wookieepedia entry:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/SubLight_Acceleration_Motor

     

    The SubLight Acceleration Motor, abbreviated to SLAM, was an overdrive system that allowed the Missile Boat to double its sublight speed.

    By drawing energy from the missile boat's laser cannon reserves, SLAM provided a burst of acceleration from the ion engines to enhance the Missile Boat's combat capabilities.

     

    If you don't like referencing closing the S-Foils, you could always call it SLAM Retrofit.


  14. Verpine Defense Tech [MODIFICATION] (Rebel only, Small Ship only) {6}

    Apply any two of the three following abilities when this card is equipped: (1) Increase agility by 1; (2) Increase Hull by 1; (3) Increase Shield by 1.

    I'd implement that a bit differently, for clarity.

    Verpine Upgrades [MODIFICATION] (Rebel only, Small Ships only) {0}

    You may equip 2 Verpine upgrades.

     

    Verpine Thrusters [VERPINE UPGRADE] {3}

    Increase your Agility value by 1.

     

    Verpine Armor [VERPINE UPGRADE] {3}

    Increase your Hull value by 1.

     

    Verpine Shields [VERPINE UPGRADE] {3}

    Increase your Shield value by 1.

    Granted, I think that may be a bit broken, but this way it'll be clear on the tabletop exactly what you took.


  15.  

    Title:

    S-Foil Expert

    X-Wing only.

    Your action bar gains the SLAM action.

    1 Point

     

    ah .... no

    The SLAM is not just about a mechanical device ... like flaps or S-foils

    It is a sublight hyberdrive.

     

     

    What is the most common representation of what happens when an X-Wing closes its S-Foils?

    I'll give you a hint:


  16. First off, I gotta say, this thread has been fascinating to read.  Now, on to the nitpicks:

    Someone made a claim that the huge engine blocking the 6 o'clock view was necessary from a design perspective to stabilize/counter the thrust from the two underslung engines being so far off centerline.  If this is so, and the designers were aware enough of the problem to counter it, why not just NOT undersling the engines in a way that needs to be countered?  Two bad design decisions don't make a good one, just like two wrongs don't make a right, and two rights don't make a left.

     

    It's the same problem that the Unicorn E-Wing has, with the blaster right over the cockpit.  The guys who drew it were more concerned with Rule of Cool than realism.

    There was also some talk about why don't the Xwings glow due to atmospheric heat, and how that proves they have aerodynamic shields.  Why is a shielding system more likely than, say, a system which captures friction heat from the hull and stores it as energy? Or materials that are able to shed heat into the vacuum faster than you think they should? Perhaps the alloys are impregnated with midicholorians to allow them to push the air out of the way with the Force.

     

    Now, to address the idea of the K-Wing coming to the tabletop:  Do we really need another large base turret ship with 3 crew slots?  Because that's what we're talking about.  Look at the cockpits and turret bubbles on the picture and tell me it's not a Large ship with a 4 man crew.  We're talking about a Falcon with a whole bunch of torpedo, missile, and bomb slots.  And if the 'it's a turbolaser' crowd wins the argument, we're talking about a Falcon with a 4 die primary turret (5 with Expose!), an extra turret slot, and 3 slots of each type of ordinance.  Does that sound fun to fly, with or against?


  17. I know you're excited about flying that 60 point big ship in round one, but please refer to the rules:

    https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/c7/6f/c76f220b-5efd-4afc-912b-e67dfcda034e/x-wing_escalationrules_v301.pdf

     

    The maximum squad points for each player’s first squad is 60 points. A squad cannot exceed 60 points, though it may contain fewer than 60 points. Each player must field at least two ships
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