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Inspector Jee

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  1. dammit beavis. C'mon FFG. Give us some more sweet, sweet D2E. A 3rd edition is just gonna blow up the universe. Do you guys really want to go through the process of writing a brand new rules system only to have to spend another half a decade rewriting them over the course of 4-5 FAQ releases and thousands of customer emails? You almost have the RAW for D2E in a place that is sorta-kinda robust - don't give up now! I must have more content! GIVE ME VARIKAS MORTAL OR YOU SHALL PAY THE ULTIMATE--- heh whoops uh, sorry got carried away there. - Jee
  2. Ooo that's encouraging. How long have they been there? - Jee
  3. Great Googily Moogily 12?? Who are we missing? - Jee
  4. Aren't we still missing some 2nd Ed Heroes from 1st Ed?
  5. For what it's worth I agree with Ren: Lost Legends seems fine to me so far, aside from All-Knowing being able to target unexhausted cards (or to be used more than once per Turn). The Elementalist can do a lot of different things, but its either going to be extremely fatigue intensive OR suffer less raw damage than its counterparts from Quest 2 through Quest 7. That is plenty of time for the Overlord to milk those disadvantages. The strategy is basically the same as countering Valyndra's Bane - choose Monsters with Ironskin whenever possible. No Stun, no Pierce, and if you have a master Golem, no moving it. - Jee
  6. To be clear: none of this is my interpretation. I am ascribing no other meaning to All-Knowing other than what is written directly on the card (include Nathan's errata). According to the RAW, you can use it multiple times on any Skill Cards - unexausted or otherwise - other than itself. The word "other" appearing on the card does not alone guarantee that the FFG intends this Skill to be restricted to once a turn - in order for that to be true, you need to also be sure that All-Knowing cannot target unexhausted cards. And we aren't. Now, this is all just devil's-advocate playing; your inteprepration of their intention seems reasonable. The only thing that gives me pause is that while I didn't specifically ask if All-Knowing had to be exhausted in order to use it, I gave FFG every chance to see it (my question was more concerned about whether or not it could target itself). Here is the full text: "The new hybrid Lorekeeper class's 3XP ability is called "All-Knowing" and as written it has to potential to generate an infinite number of skill uses per Turn. This is particularly egregious when combined with skills that give you non-action attacks. "All-Knowing" doesn't say it can't target unexhausted skills, so it can legally target itself. This means that the first time per Turn that a player uses it they can pay the 1 Fatigue cost, choose itself + another skill that gives them a free attack (like "Bottled Courage" from the Apothecary class), pass the [Book] test (not difficult since "All-Knowing" gives you +1 [Book] and Mage archetypes tend to have high [Book] anyway), and after that *both* skills are free to use until the end of the Round. Since "All-Knowing" has no limits on the number of times you can use it in a Turn, the player can just keep using it (for free) to keep a skill like "Bottled Courage" perpetually unexhausted, thus enabling its use ad infinitum, thus granting infinite attacks on a single Turn. Is this intended and if not, what SHOULD the text of "All-Knowing" be instead?" That last sentence is a straight-up plea for a full-errata'ed text, and yet he gave no such indication that it couldn't be used multiple times per turn or that it couldn't target unexhausted skills - only that it couldn't target itself. I'm not saying your wrong but if you're not, then FFG messed up AGAIN on their 2nd chance to fix the text of that card. - Jee
  7. To make itself free for the rest of the Turn, which is the other (and arguably much more important) thing that All-Knowing does. The only reason that we're even having this conversation at all is because a free All-Knowing + free Bottle Courage = infinite attacks. - Jee
  8. Not necessarily. All-Knowing doesn't require that the chosen skills be exhausted. It simply says "Choose any number of your other skills cards and test [Book]." If you succeed it instructs you to unexaust those cards, but that's hardly proof that they had to have been exhausted in the first place. I sent a reply for clarification on that at least, but either way I think All-Knowing is meant to be able to be used multiple times per Turn. - Jee
  9. Oh are you the person who made that? If so, well done. That thing is amazing. - Jee
  10. Good news, everyone! /Farnsworth I received a response from FFG about this. From Nathan Hajek: “Tide should have the same timing as Blaze, after dice are rolled. The timing on Tide is an error. All-Knowing should have “other” in the text so that it cannot target itself: “Choose any number of your other skill cards and…” So there you have it. - Jee
  11. That is true. Good insight. I am far less familiar with the app than with standard play. As a possible counter-point (or perhaps just an additional point), AoE damage skills are going to be a lot more useful simply as a function of the App's AI (dare I say 50% more) then they would be in standard play. This meta-advantage is going keep damage above Pierce in the priority, at least for me, along with the simple fact that you will never, ever kill a Monster using only Pierce. Also, the part of the conversation that was about damage vs. Pierce was focusing on how the overlord should respond to the Heroes' choices, rather than the other way around. In that App that's completely moot so much of what I said on that topic doesn't apply. - Jee
  12. It's possible I'm underestimating Pierce, but I can only go off my experience plus the math to handle the situations I've never been in. It takes a defense pool of [Grey][Black] for Pierce 3+ to start reliably beating Pierce 2. That kind of resilience is usually only reserved for big-bads + Lieutenants and that's IF they don't have Iron Skin. So yeah, against Baron Z it's great. But how often are you fighting that guy vs. say, Cave Spiders? Also, I find that if a party has a lot of Pierce the best counter is to simply choose Monsters than don't care, rather than to maximize Shields. Golems, Ironbound, or basically any Ranged swarm that trades defense for offense will often make Pierce completely useless, wasting that part of the item/ability entirely. Trying to meet it pound-for-pound is a trap. Except in the rare cases where you need to save a mission-critical monster, that strategy is just going to make Pierce more effective because given 2 similarly powered abilities or items, Pierce values are always going be higher than Shield/Damage values. Item-budget-wise, Pierce is "cheaper". And even in those cases there are often better cards you could use, or at least commiserate ones with more ubiquity. I'm not saying those cards are useless, they're just better against a straight damage build than against Pierce build (which makes sense because the latter is a direct counter to the former). Put another way: if your solution to "lots of water" is "yet more fire" then all that does is justify your opponent's choice to use water. I'm glad you (Charmy) brought up the Mage early game cause it segues into scaling; that's a fascinating topic. The Elementalist has so many fun options here: do I go damage? Utility? A combo? What kind? That's where the true power of the class lies - you can pivot pretty fast, even within a single build (well, that and the end game, as you pointed out). I also basically agree that in the Intro, the Ele is going to be more useful than the Runemaster. But it stops there, at least for a little while. 1XP gives the Runemaster on-demand Blast, which is not only going to rocket her top end damage past .. everyone's ... but is going to require the OL to play around it forever, which means the campaign is now being fought squarely on the Heroes' terms. Gaining Gust/Tide (plus a range increase, re-roll, or double-use) isn't going to have nearly the same favorable tempo shift. And I would argue that that advantage remains even through getting the 4th Elemental skill. The Runemaster can then save his XP from Act 1 Missions 1 and 2, and start 3 with Iron Will. The Ele will either have all their 1XP skills by this point or will be halfway to a 2XP skill. In either case, the Runemaster is still on top when it comes to raw destructive power AND fatigue sustain. They can blast twice a Turn, possibly for a net-0 fatigue (and she will have +1 Max fatigue). The Ele will be burning fatigue like crazy to leverage their combos. Granted, this comes with Stuns and cool movement things you can do, along with respectable ranged damage but a 5+ Fatigue Blast Factory that can easily Fatigue-move around is going be far more disruptive, except in very specific situations. And this advantage will persist until the Ele gets Spiritual Balance and the massive Fatigue efficiency differential starts to even out. Then I reckon they will be roughly equivalent until the Runemaster gets Quickcasting one Mission later. After that it will take 2 MORE Missions for the Ele to get Nature's Fury and finally become partially fused with Infinity. At this point the Runemaster can pick up Rune Mastery or whatever for another boost, but yes - at this point the Ele has the advantage, all things considered. But it's the Finale now. For most of the campaign the Runemaster was meeting or beating the Ele in power, self-mobility, and efficiency, and half the time she was using less XP to do it. And I'm basically cool with that. That seems balanced to me. The Ele starts strong, trades power for utility mid-game, and then comes back with a bang at the end. Seems right. - Jee P.S. I'm not sure you're giving Quaking Word its fair due. It does scale with other skills - every time you get another Summoned Stone, it's potential list of targets grows. And right out of the gate, it can stun ALL the things if positioned right, not just 1 thing. Ultimately I think you're right - the Ele is a "better" class (at least in general; I've seen savvy Geomancers do some crazy stuff in certain clutch situations). But I don't think the power-differential of these 2 abilities is anything to worry about. The Geomancer is basically an offtank in addition to being a Mage, so you would expect it to give up some other versatility.
  13. Yes, I will absolutely test it in the real world. Out of curiosity, have you played with it yet? You haven't mentioned (in this thread) whether or not your objections were all theoretical or if you've witnessed this class first-hand bowling over even the most competent of Overlords. In regard to your objections to my objections, I'm not seeing anything here that isn't a restatement of your original points aside from an assertion that different things are technically different. Yes, I know the Runemaster and the Hexer have skills that are mechanically different from the Elementalist. I know they have to use traditional methods to recover Fatigue and don't come with 1 free reroll a Turn. However, they don't also have to find a Blast weapon in order to use AoE attacks, nor do they always HAVE to use their utility before they attack to maximize their damage. The Runemaster doesn't need to settle for Tide's static damage AND positional requirements for its 3rd damage option; she can just make an whole other Attack (and everything that goes with it, as you pointed out). And a Finale-powered Hexer will have the entire place Hexed up by Turn 2. Then it's double Plague Cloud as often as possible. You can't tell me 3 Fatigue is insignificant in the end game and then turn around and say that Plague Cloud's 3 Fatigue cost is prohibitive. My point is that these classes' raw power level, all things considered, didn't seem all that lower than the Ele. Yes, I agree that the Elementalist has more options for builds - which is part of the allure of the class - but that's a meta-comparison and isn't relevant to a discussion about how a single build compares to that of another class. The Elementalist cannot have both the ability to move Enemies around and still do all the stuff you listed. Same goes for Grasping multiple Monsters. What powers are you gonna give up to get that? The Fatigue Recovery? The reroll+the extended range on Gust/Grasp? The extra Yellow Die (which doesn't even show up until late in the game)? All of these things are integral to sustain your argument that the class is OP. And that's really what it comes down to - the Elementalist is a combo powerhouse, but you gotta get those combos. Maybe you're right - maybe by the Finale it's an unstoppable killing utilitarian machine, but you're vulnerable on the way there. Each skill increases your power exponentially because it makes all the other skills better, but the reverse is true - for every skill you DON'T have, you're exponentially weaker relative to your class peers at the same points in the game. That's a lot of time that the OL can use to exploit a Ele that doesn't yet have her increased range and her reroll and her +yellow dice and her fatigue recovery that are integral to her eventual power apotheosis. The Runemaster doesn't have this problem (the Hexer kinda still does tho). Again, I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong or don't have valid concerns here. But I am of the opinion that the situation is not at all clear cut, and will the largely depend on the party comp, campaign, and even individual situation. - Jee P.S. Regarding Pierce: I find that anything above Pierce 2 is overkill, 75-80% of the time. Pierce 3+ definitely has its uses but the difference between Pierce 2 and Pierce 4 is quite often nothing, especially if the OL knows you have it. I suspect that Blaze was given Pierce precisely because it loses all value past a certain point and the designers wanted the player to make interesting choices as to what order to use their skills in.
  14. Mmmmm, good analysis but I'm unconvinced (aside from the Quest issue; that is clearly unintended). Yes you can snowball the everliving crap out the elemental cards, but in order to get that kinda bang for your buck the situation has to be highly specific. From a macro standpoint, you've spent most of your fatigue to - at best - kill 3 Monsters and stun another. You've also moved a Hero 2 spaces. So on average we'll call that 1 stun, 1 utility move, and 3 end-game Attacks' worth of damage (since 5+ damage seems about right for the average number of wounds dealt by an attack in the Finale). This is pretty solid, but it's not demonstrably better than what a Runemaster can do with Quickcasting, Iron Will, and Runic Sorcery. The Elementalist can potentially do a wider variety of things for less cost, but has to do them in the exact right order with the right board position. The Runemaster can basically just make 3 monstrous Attacks no matter what, 2 of which can supply the condition of their choice (not just stun). And what of the Hexer? Plague Cloud + Crippling Curse can also shut down an entire group of Monsters (or more), AND attack all of them (given the right board position). Throw in Internal Rot and you got your Pierce as well. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'mma need to give this a few real-world test runs before I concede that you're right. - Jee
  15. It's hard for me to believe that the interaction with Bottled Courage (and things like it) wasn't discovered during play-testing. The bare minimum effort required to test a hybrid class would be to play out every single one of its possible class combos (hopefully, they also tested each with a wide variety of heroes). Once they inevitably got to Lorekeeper/Apothecary, any player even half-awake would be like "oh snap fighting power 1,000,000". So even conceding the lowest possible level of competency to FFG requires the acceptance that the lack of "Exhaust" on All-Knowing was deliberate. The only explanation for this (other than "FFG purposefully created a combo that for 1 Fatigue obliterates all Monsters within LoS") is that the current behavior of All-Knowing is intended minus its implication that it can affect unexhausted cards (i.e. itself). Under this assumption, the combo IS deliberate but each employed iteration costs 1 Fatigue and a [Book] Check (after the initial 2 Fatigue buy-in of Bottled Courage). Whether or not this is still an OP combo is pretty well up for debate IMO. As mentioned by LightningClaw, both Carve a Path and Whirlwind are more than capable of delivering a similar amount of Attacks for a cheaper cost - both in XP and in Fatigue - and no attribute risk. The only real advantage this combo has over those 2 skills is that a) it gives out pots sometimes and b) it's only limited by Fatigue. But you would expect this, for all the extra stuff you have to spend - and do - just to get it going. The XP cost alone means that you're not going to be seeing this employed until ACT II at the very, very earliest and that's IF the Apothakeeper prioritizes it over everything else - which means a Healer (or possibly THE Healer) is gimping themselves for at least 2-3 whole Missions (one of which is the Interlude) whilst saving up. That seems like a reasonable amount of time for a crafty OL to gain enough ground to effectively counter the expected-value garnered from this combo later on. I think I'm convinced. All-Knowing should probably be clarified to: " ... Choose any number of your exhausted skill cards and test [Book] ..." I am also going to apply Occum's Razor to the original topic and assume that Tide should have been worded thusly: "Exhaust this card when you perform an Attack. After that attack, a monster adjacent to the target space .... ". This clears up the Sun and Sea interaction while not ascribing any additional mechanics to either skill. Thanks everyone for your input! - Jee
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