Thanks! I will check that out too. I'm only about 5 pages in on the thread and about halfway done with your ruleset CRB. And, of course I would credit you. We are still in preliminary stages, but once we have a text file, I'll either post something in this thread, create a new thread and link it here, or both!
 
@Tom CruiseAfter reading you base rules, I think I can perhaps simply expand on what you have, provide suggestions and help add additional Deathwatch content. You've done a good bit of groundwork here already. I have a discord server that I'm using right now for collaboration, if you are interested.

Quick Draw
Activation: Active (incidental)
Ranked:no
Trees: Assassin, Force sensitive Exile, Scoundrel
Once per round on the character's turn, he may draw or holster an easily accessible weapon as an incidental, not a maneuver. This talent also reduces the amount of time to draw or stow a weapon that usually requires more than one maneuver to properly prepare or stow , by one maneuver.
 
The other way one could interpret this is, that dual-wielding would classify under:
 
 
If it now takes a maneuver to draw a second weapon, the verbiage could be interpreted that the second weapon's maneuver to draw is reduced by one maneuver to an incidental as well. You can interpret or house rule it however you'd like. There isn't one specific way, just do what you think works for your game.

Where did you did read this in the CRB? It states the exact opposite...

I think the RAW says certain Talents aren't stackable and when you enter a talent tree that has the Talent, you automatically are assumed to have the Talent already (negating the need to purchase Quick Drawx2 for instance). An example would be: if you are a Smuggler - Scoundrel and pick up Quick Draw under that tree, and you buy the Bounty Hunter - Assassin Specialization, Quick Draw would already be purchased. If you buy Dodge, you don't need to buy Quick Draw to buy Anatomy Lessons, you can just go straight from Dodge to Anatomy Lessons without wasting additional XP to 're-purchase' a Talent listed as un-stackable.
 
In reference to getting an attachment that allows Quick Draw, along with the Quick Draw Talent... I guess you can alter the rules if it makes sense for your game. I just remind my PCs that you can remove items from a Hardpoint and add in something different, that way they can benefit from some other type of enhancement to their weapon, while getting an incidental without wasting a HP.
 
But, as you probably can tell in my previous posts, I try to stay within RAW as much as possible .

I don't think it makes mention that quick draw can't be used with dual wield simultaneously; I've treated them as the same as a person Dual-Wielding drawing weapons normally. If they only have to take a single maneuver to draw both weapons, I don't see why quick draw wouldn't allow that to translate over to an incidental for both as well.

I was going to quote Selito AND alien270 here with a couple of broad statements about the Explorer Tree. The first is that it's not exactly simply a group of Specializations that are poorly thought out or just tied together with no real thought process. What they are, is a Hybrid class, akin to a Druid in a d20 system, or a something like a Sentinel from a game like Mass Effect. You've got a support focused trees in Colonist and Technician and realistically two combat focused trees in Hired Gun and Bounty Hunter. Smuggler and Explorer are both trees filled with Hybrid classes that can mix is up, and provide a little bit of both, albeit in different ways. The Smuggler Career leans more toward combat, while the Explorer Career leans more toward support.
 
In any case, I want to make mention that if combat and stealth proficiency dice are so absolutely necessary, buying them out of career skill is cheaper than multi-classing, and with that, you get the excellent dice pool size of the Explorer career as well as training proficiency. Hell, with a Scout, you can choose a Human and get a free rank in a combat skill (or two) and grab stealth as well. Then you've fixed some of your problem with craving proficiency dice.
 
The Explorer tree is a hybrid-tree that allows a PC to provide support abilities, but not be total slouches in Combat as well. You're not going to be the best shot, be the best face, or support guy, without training or multi-specializing, but this is true with the Smuggler tree as well; you can't be the best Pilot with dipping into Fringer and you can't be the best Astrogator without dipping into Pilot, you can't be the best face without dipping into Politico, you can't be the Best Gunslinger without Mercenary Solider, you can't be the best ya-da-ya-da. Smuggler is really no more of a 'defined' Career, as Explorer (Minus Pilot and Explorer gets Trader which is pretty straight forward). I think that Smuggler is less scrutinized due to having Career skills that support combat, while Explorer does not and I think passing judgement on the tree because it's a hybrid that focuses more on support than combat isn't giving it justice. And what the Explorer loses in combat efficiency, it gains in high strain thresholds, as well as the best strain regeneration in the game. I disagree with the lack of definitive focus on these careers and specializations; I'll go through each.
 
Fringer is primarily a co-pilot (as previously mentioned); it's not going to be able to Pilot as well as the Smuggler Pilot Career Specialization, but it's better at Astrogation with Master Starhopper AND the fact it gets Rapid Recovery x3 (+4 Strain Recovery per Advantage... What?!) If you've got a ship that's got room for a co-pilot and not just an Astrogator, you gain a PC that can strain ***** maneuvers and recover them with ease. Fringers are good at getting into and out of sticky situations in civilization - they are better at communicating with customs than a Pilot, they are better at Combat than a Pilot and they are excellent at getting away in a Chase, both on foot and in a vessel. Luke Skywalker is a solid example of a Fringer; he wasn't exactly on Han Solo's level as a Pilot, but he did okay with a little bit of training from the Rebel Alliance. Luke's ability to expend strain, while get a bonus from having minor training as a FSE, allowed him to hit a proton torpedo into the Death Star. Obviously, he dropped multi-classed out of the Explorer tree to a Jedi, but we can't quite do that yet. I bet his Rapid Recovery Talents helped him being a Jedi, however.
 
Scouts are great, well Scouts and Combatants as well. They get so many buffs to perception, it's ridiculous as well as boosts to Stealth. While Stealth isn't a career skill, a Scout isn't exactly stealthy. They are meant to get in and get out, similar to the Fringer, but in the wilds. Take a look at Scout Troopers on Endor in Return of the Jedi; they roll up on their speeder bikes, look around with their macro binoculars. They weren't sneaking around like a spec ops unit, but it's not like they were out in the open either. When they were spotted, they ran trying to make it back to warn the Imperials. Too bad they were up against Jedi... You didn't see these guys going about trying to kill Luke, Leia and Han with blasters, no they ran first. And when they did try to shoot the Rebels, they weren't as good as Stormtroopers. I see Scouts in Edge more like the Scout Troopers in Return of the Jedi or how scouts are in many RTS's (little stealth, if any and the fastest units in the game), more than I see them like some type of Ranger, or some sneaky special forces guy. Scouts are excellent runners and they get Cool as a career skill, with a persistent Vigilance/Perception boosting buff. I know it was mentioned by Selito that the Vigilance buff isn't exactly the greatest buff, but I disagree. The Scout get's cool as a career skill, which, with the scout's boost dice to stealth, makes the Scout and excellent ambusher. With that being said, if the scout is with the group, which would be considered close range, the group gets a bonus AGAINST ambushes. Scouts are also excellent at finding, domesticating and quickly riding animals; this can be used offensively or defensively. Speaking of chases, Scouts are the best class in the game at running away, or catching someone running (on foot or on planetary vehicle).
 
Traders are Faces, but aren't as smooth of a talker as a Politico; they make up for it with being able to find what they want, and get it. I don't have much experience with traders, but they seem excellent for making money.
 
As for rolling percentages and meta-gaming, I know it's difficult to prevent. Have the GM homebrew adventures and create new NPCs that aren't in the book (you can use the same stats, just rename the NPCs.. I do this to great effect in my game and it's really helped with negating player looking at NPC stats). Homebrews are typically great ways to really build adventures around player's skills; having maybe 3-5 objectives and let the players RP/use their strengths has been a rewarding experience and gives the support guys a little more love.
 
Really, I like the Explorer Career and its specialization trees. I don't think there's anything wrong with them. I do think they are more tailored to the 'support' end of the spectrum than 'combat', but they let you support while providing talents to aid in combat, when it comes... Outside of Trader that is... If you're looking for like a 'Ranger' type character (rugged dude that can deal damage), Survivalist is a better option, where Scout would be more like a 'Druid' if that makes sense... You'll lose damage potential, but make up for it with helping out your group.
 
Sorry for the long winded posts and I'm not trying to discredit opinions, I simply feel like Explorer is one of the most misunderstood careers and meta-gaming DOES hurt it more than almost any other (because godmoding omnipotence totally crushes support skills for a party).

Eh, I'm going to once again throw out my disdain for when threads break down into the whole, "don't use this, its useful, choose something else" pattern. I don't think its fair to say that knowledge skills are useless or underrated. Underutilized? Yes. Underrated? No.
 
Some skills are used less in games because players and GMs simply don't know how to implement the skill concepts in a meaningful way that helps supplement the adventure that their running, which is fine, but that doesn't mean a skill or skills is useless - they are only as useless as we let them be.
 
Realistically, Knowledge skills are a bit daunting to implement outside of giving boost dice, but in more open games, they come in handy. I do generally believe that, if as a GM, you've got a set idea of what you want to happen, when you want it to happen and how you want it to happen, skills like Knowledge or Astrogation lose effectiveness. On the other hand, if you give players an objective and allow them to go off the rails and complete the objectives in any way they'd like, Knowledge skills come in handy.
 
An example would be, the players take a job to find some type of rare resource or relic - as a GM you can either simply tell the players you need to find this resource/relic on this planet. Or, another option is have the PCs take the job with no idea of where to begin and say, "Yup, that's all the info you're getting," then wrap the adventure around how the players go about finding this resource. Now Knowledge comes into play - perhaps they succeed on checks, getting to the resource/relic quickly, or perhaps they fail and you feed them false information, or they go on a wild goose hunt that proves to be a couple of sessions long. These are the instances when something like knowledge skills come into play. If situations aren't presented to the player providing opportunities to use certain skills, then they will be useless. It does take a degree of GM patience to allow this type of adventure, but it can be rewarding in its own light. Similar scenarios are the use of Astrogation beyond the group quickly trying to jump out of a fight - where as a failed Astrogation check lands the group in a region of space, of which they have no clue where their at and would require research and knowledge to get their bearings.
 
A way to start incorporating knowledge skills, even with on rails adventures, is taking the group to planets that harsh atmospheres; if the players don't run a knowledge check on the planet, they obviously they wouldn't be prepared for the planet's conditions and add setback dice to their resilience checks.
 
Knowledge skills (like Astrogation, Computers, Resilience and Athletics) all have certain niches that require implementation of scenarios to be properly used. They aren't useless, perhaps a better thought is that they're misunderstood.

Don't forget disarm, sunder and grappling. Even an minion group can be deadly if the Marauder or Auto-Fire PC can't use their weapon of choice.

I've had a player drop in one of my PbP games and I'm looking for a new addition. The game can be found here: http://www.roleplayinggames.net/cgi-bin/mainboard.cgi?&board=58. Take a look at the 'Campaign Details' and if you're interested, shoot me a PM or click the Email GM link on the page!

I don't have an online game but it occurs to me that might be a good sticky thread for those that have open games to post their details.

I interpret a hard natural cap at 6 without cyber, or 7 with. That "natural max is 6" implicitly includes permanently raising the Characteristic through Dedication, or temporarily raising it with particular types of armor, the Enhance Force power, or Stim Application. Further, I would not allow the latter two to stack. To me they're both externally-applied enhancement bonuses and thus should not stack; the armor is more of an equipment bonus. I recognize that these are more D&D system terms than the system terms of Edge, but that's my interpretation to avoid even more One True Build combos and abuse.
 
By that same token, I interpret that cap of 7 as a hard cap of 7. Not "6 natural, 7 with a cyber arm...so 8 with a cyber arm+leg, 9 with cyber and armor." 7 is the best you get, full stop. From a reading of the rules, I think the rules are quite clear on that front.
 
To me the benefits of every +Brawn thing should not take "natural" Brawn above 6 (that being normal Brawn + enhancements + equipment), or "augmented" (with cyber) Brawn above 7. Cyber is the only way to get above 6 at all, period.
 
The clear benefit of this is not having to spend Dedication on Brawn as much to max it out, and thus if you choose to go down several Spec trees, feeling more free to allocate that Dedication elsewhere. If you have access to Stim application and are cybered and have beefy armor, you could presumably just leave your natural Brawn at 4 (5 while armored, 6 with Stim Application or Enhance) and increase it by +1 to 7 with a piece of cyber. Saving full iterations of Dedication is nothing to sneeze at.
 
The other big benefit to both your left arm and right arm being cybered, versus just your left, is that imo if you're punching someone with your (cybered) left arm, you'd get a +1 to damage from that punch that wouldn't logically apply if you're punching with your meat right arm. Even if that means you don't get further iterative +Brawn, having that bonus broadly applicable to more limbs can still be useful.
 
 
Me personally? No ****ing way. Feels way too Shadowrun and not at all Star Wars. That creates conflicts with the themes of the setting and the technology in the setting and would be my justification for disallowing it.
 
Frankly I don't like how much Shadowrun the cyber system has injected into this game. Transhumanism and the borders of medical ethics are big themes for Shadowrun and 40k but hardly themes for the Star Wars space opera, even the more gritty episodes. I'd rather cyber just be replacements for ruined appendages offering no "better than flesh" benefit, rather than something normal people would seek out and do for an edge.

Don't forget disarm, sunder and grappling. Even an minion group can be deadly if the Marauder or Auto-Fire PC can't use their weapon of choice.

Devs were asked about this and said it is working as they intend.  Personally I put this right up there with soak as a non issue.  One concussion grenade and the marauder and the auto fire monster are not taking any actions for 2 rounds.  That equals dead without Hard Headed, which your spec doesn't have, to try and shake it off.   Even then, that's one round of not doing anything  if the check succeeds.  Then there's a snare launcher, ensnare them and do Knockdown.  Even if they manage to get out, that's the action for that round and they aren't allowed any maneuvers so there is no standing up until next round without Jump Up, which your Assassin has access to.
 
There's more options to combat than just shooting, counting damage, and applying soak.

The important reference material can be found in the Core Rulebook, page 173. (The page number isn't on the actual page to make room for a picture of a Medical Droid working on Luke Skywalker's arm.)

2nd paragraph;

"Cybernetic enhancements and replacements gernally increase skills or characteristics, providing raw bonuses to characters' abilities. The combination of purchased increases provided by cybernetics can increase a character's skill or characteristic one step above the normal maximum (seven for characteristics, six for skills)."

In so many words, Core Rulebook page 102 (again, not actually numbered, althogh there's no picture) also explains in the 6th paragraph that the 5th skill rank is "mastered". This isn't a direct reference to a skill cap, but this combined with a quick glance at the character sheet in the back of the book makes the information easy enough to extrapolate.

This is not correct. In the published version of the game (not the pre-update Beta), there are no limits to how may Specializations you can purchase (beyond paying the increasing XP cost to purchase them).

It seems to me that your players are frustrated that they aren't good with a skill they haven't bothered to invest into.

I'm not sure that really qualifies for Cool.  That would be whatever skills are required for the setup (Skulduggery, Stealth, Mechanics for traps, Leadership to keep people steady, etc), opposed by the NPC's perception.  Same with ambushes.  If the NPC Perceives then I'd probably default to Cool for the ambushers, but a case could be made for Vigilance because the ambushers might notice the target's reaction, ie: they are vigilant to the target's state of mind.
 
I use Cool more often when talks go bad and somebody breaks into action:  the person breaking into action (and maybe their allies) rolls Cool, and if they don't do well on their roll it means they telegraphed their intentions...they weren't Cool enough to get the jump on anyone.  Vigilance wouldn't make sense, because they aren't being vigilant, they are making a decision to initiate action.  I find there are fun narrative possibilities there, and if the PCs don't boost their Cool, it's because they haven't been presented with a narrative highlighting how it could have been useful.

I'm not saying it has no place in the game. I'm also not saying that it is in some way inferior. It just makes sense why people don't choose it as often (or select it as a second spec). There are other specs that receive little love too for similar reasons. 
 
I hope FFG keeps including them. 

I am glad the specialization is there, but I would assume it is not going to be a common pick for a space action/adventure setting. There isn't the same iconic representation as there is for other specs.

Exactly! But even someone without proficiency can sometimes 'get lucky' and outperforms someone that is trained in a specific skill, even if just for a moment. Whether its a rush of adrenaline, a simple stroke of genius or by pure luck, as the book mentions, the setup of the game allows for this to happen (since it's dice rolls and partially based of luck..) Will they be able to create a masterpiece? No. Will they sometimes get lucky and out do someone trained in a specific area? Sure, but not often. From an RP perspective, it may not be as elegant as a Proficient skill success, but that's the fun on player interpreting their dice.
 
If a Scholar gets one success, he may recall the information from his studies, or know where he can locate the information in question. If the Hired Gun rolls two successes (with no training in the skill), he might be able to say, hey I remember encountering one of these things on a merc visit to this place... There hired gun won't be able to do it as often, or as fast as the scholar, but every once in a while, they'll be able to provide some help.

Indeed. Sniper Shot isn't an 'end-all' for a Marauder - it'll allow certain weapon properties to be trigger from a range band longer, allow for a smaller guns that don't have a 'Cumbersome' rating to be used at one range band longer or allow a sniper to get a shot or two off before an NPC closes range.
 
It's easy for a PC, or NPC that wants to, to close range quickly and eventually make a talent, like Sniper Shot, or Gunnery not applicable at some point... Unless you've got a Jet Pack or Speeder Bike where you use Gunnery and constantly drive off..

Indeed. Sniper Shot isn't an 'end-all' for a Marauder - it'll allow certain weapon properties to be trigger from a range band longer, allow for a smaller guns that don't have a 'Cumbersome' rating to be used at one range band longer or allow a sniper to get a shot or two off before an NPC closes range.
 
It's easy for a PC, or NPC that wants to, to close range quickly and eventually make a talent, like Sniper Shot, or Gunnery not applicable at some point... Unless you've got a Jet Pack or Speeder Bike where you use Gunnery and constantly drive off..

Yes, every round you get the bonus.  Only once per round (so no plus on every shot of autofire) but you get to add it every round.
 
It's a very powerful talent, there's a reason it's bottom tier.

Yah, it's on one hit of a successful attack, as in not every shot you land with auto fire or a double tap with dual wielding.

Only in the case of Rivals and Nemesis. Minions don't have strain.
 
In any case, forcing a Rival to suffer strain to close the gap on on the Sniper is worthwhile as well, as they've low ST.
 
Nemesis are a little different and can easily close the gap, but he's walking straight into the line of fire and has to make a Long Shot with a Setback, compared to the Sniper's now Long Shot with two boost dice. Also, we forget that there's the rest of the team - if the Rival or Nemesis is focusing on covering the ground to the Sniper, the rest of the team now is put in an advantageous position due to the NPC not using cover in a rushed attempt to take out the guy hitting him with pot-shots from Extreme Range and spending a turn losing all offensive/defensive bonuses given to them by use of maneuvers.
 
I don't want to make this seem like it's an uber talent, because it's not. But its a nice situational niche for players that want to play a PC that can do something like the above example, which won't be the majority .