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WonderWAAAGH

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  1. Haha
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Simplegarak in Faced a neat "combo"   
  2. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from SupaGerm in Gabos Longarms + Elusive interaction.   
    Nexus only has the reminder text for elusive in parentheses, which is necessarily truncated. The BRB says "the first time a creature with the elusive keyword is attacked each turn, it is dealt no damage and deals no damage to the attacker in the fight." So yes, Gabos would deal damage.
    Gabos attacks Nexus -> damage is dealt to another creature
    Gabos attacks another creature -> damage is dealt to Nexus (which is not actually being attacked)
  3. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Marginal Hulk in Rules changes killing me   
    "I'm angry, where can I go on the internet to complain?"
  4. Confused
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from 10Ten in Rules updated Jan 17   
    I know you're probably not interested, but here are the rules for continuous effects in Magic:
    https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Continuous_effect
    I bring them up here only to illustrate the variety of common interactions that might come up in the future, interactions that wouldn't even be on somebody's radar unless they had some experience with them. Without a definition for "lasting effects," we wouldn't know:
    1) How to identify the duration of the effect
    2) How to apply the effect if it would somehow be invalidated or changed upon resolution (like an illegal target)
    3) What it applies to, and whether or not that can be changed 
    4) When the value of a variable is determined, and if that variable can be changed 
    5) If they apply to the card that is creating them, especially in the case of permanents
    And then there's the ultimate nightmare of rules interactions: layers. When you have two competing lasting effects, how do they interact with each other? Which takes precedence, and what order are they resolved in?
  5. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from noxeor in What do you want to see in the next Rulebook?   
    That also means FFG had 25+ years of card game "dos and don'ts" to learn from, but they chose not to.  
  6. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Doyouevenforgebro in Rules updated Jan 17   
    Is "Before Destroyed" a new rules function that needs to be addressed now?
  7. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Doyouevenforgebro in Rules updated Jan 17   
    I fear we're going to end up with some SW: Destiny deja vu before all is said and done. To wit: what happens when a "before destroyed" effect prevents an object from being destroyed in the first place? Is it still destroyed, and if not, does the destroyed effect trigger anyways?
  8. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Doyouevenforgebro in Rules updated Jan 17   
    Let me give some examples using very basic, common effects.
    You have a card in play that says your creatures get one more power. Your opponent has a card in play that says all creatures get one less power. Here are the questions that arise:
    Which effect is resolved first? Does playing a creature with only 1 power go straight to the discard pile?
    If there is some order of precedence, what is it? Is it by when the lasting effect was created (effects that were there first are resolved first)? Is it by who controls it (apply your lasting effects first, then your opponent's)? Is it by card type (lasting effects created by permanents first, then action cards)? Is it by active house / inactive house?
    For effects that trigger off of creature power, when is that power calculated? If, for example, a trigger reads "do X when a creature with 2 power comes into play," does it trigger when you play something with 1 power (coming into play with one more)? Does it trigger when you play something with 2 power (coming into play with one less)?
    That's just two cards with basic effects. Imagine how much more complicated it could be with other cards:
    You have a card in play that says your Brobnar creatures get one more power. Your opponent has a card in play that says all creatures get one less power. You play an action card that makes all of your creatures Brobnar until end of turn. Same questions as above.
     
  9. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Doyouevenforgebro in What do you want to see in the next Rulebook?   
    That also means FFG had 25+ years of card game "dos and don'ts" to learn from, but they chose not to.  
  10. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Doyouevenforgebro in What do you want to see in the next Rulebook?   
    Timing rules (a stack would be nice) and triggered/replacement effects. The "active player chooses" thing is lazy design and an obvious cop out.
    "Do as much as you can" has to be the most nebulous wording I've read in a rules document, and desperately needs attention. 
    Targeting rules. "Can I heal card [X] if it doesn't have any damage?" is a function of poor card templating; in this case the target should be explicitly legal or illegal. 
    Nearly all of these are spelled out in section 608 of the Magic Comprehensive Rulebook. While KeyForge isn't Magic (and doesn't need to be), it would be helpful to see how other franchises manage these gaming conventions. Before people jump down my throat, FFG already emulates the stack in other games, albeit awkwardly and FIFO instead of LIFO. The lack of a RRG here is utterly perplexing. 
    Oh, and objects. Silly of them to open that door without properly addressing it in written form.
    --
    Consider that in just one type of interaction already in the game - Bad Penny / Yxilo Bolter - we need to manage 1) triggers (replacement effects), 2) targeting, 3) objects, and 4) zones. The rule set, as currently presented, is woefully inadequate at managing any single one of those, if it describes them at all. How confident are we that the next set will be any more intuitive if FFG doesn't make some attempt to address these now?  
  11. Haha
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Steel Rabbit in Rules changes killing me   
    How did we let a complaint thread get to a second page? 😕
  12. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Hinomura in Rules changes killing me   
    How did we let a complaint thread get to a second page? 😕
  13. Thanks
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from saluk64007 in Rules updated Jan 17   
    "Go to the discard pile" is replaced with "go to your hand."
  14. Haha
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from saluk64007 in Rules updated Jan 17   
    I wasn't disagreeing with you. A replacement effect takes the place of another effect, usually part of the core rules. In this case Penny would normally go to the discard pile, but that framework effect is instead replaced by her trigger text. "If this creature would be destroyed, place it in its owner's hand instead of the discard pile." 
  15. Thanks
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Doyouevenforgebro in Rules changes killing me   
    If you press the little + symbol in the bottom left corner of somebody's post it will add it to your multi-quote queue. Then you can click the multi-quote box that pops up on the bottom right and it will generate quote boxes for each separate poster in one single post, so you can address all of them without having to keep typing out their names.
  16. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from DacoTrilar in Are the Four Horsemen Competitive?   
    I can't speak for everyone, but I come to these forums for thoughtful discussion and debate, not clickbait. It's your right to express yourself how you see fit, but would you mind containing the various links to just a single thread, and then bumping it when appropriate? Thanks!
  17. Thanks
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Doyouevenforgebro in Rules changes killing me   
    I accept that they are real issues, and I've been making the same complaints about FFG for years - here, and occasionally in person. The totality of my frustration has amounted to an understanding that FFG starts every game deaf, dumb, and blind to all of their own franchises as well as their competitors. FFG, as a brand, has come to rely on gimmicks, loyalty, and market saturation over quality R&D. How can we change these facts? We probably can't, but coming here to b**** about how you lost $400 is probably the least productive way to go about trying. 
  18. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from CaptainJaguarShark in Rules changes killing me   
    How did we let a complaint thread get to a second page? 😕
  19. Haha
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Derrault in Rules changes killing me   
    "I'm angry, where can I go on the internet to complain?"
  20. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from saluk64007 in Rules updated Jan 17   
    I know you're probably not interested, but here are the rules for continuous effects in Magic:
    https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Continuous_effect
    I bring them up here only to illustrate the variety of common interactions that might come up in the future, interactions that wouldn't even be on somebody's radar unless they had some experience with them. Without a definition for "lasting effects," we wouldn't know:
    1) How to identify the duration of the effect
    2) How to apply the effect if it would somehow be invalidated or changed upon resolution (like an illegal target)
    3) What it applies to, and whether or not that can be changed 
    4) When the value of a variable is determined, and if that variable can be changed 
    5) If they apply to the card that is creating them, especially in the case of permanents
    And then there's the ultimate nightmare of rules interactions: layers. When you have two competing lasting effects, how do they interact with each other? Which takes precedence, and what order are they resolved in?
  21. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Hinomura in Rules changes killing me   
    "I'm angry, where can I go on the internet to complain?"
  22. Haha
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Krashwire in Rules changes killing me   
    "I'm angry, where can I go on the internet to complain?"
  23. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from steveisbig in Rules updated Jan 17   
    Looks like we now need a section and definition for "lasting effects."
  24. Haha
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from Drakespirit in Rules changes killing me   
    "I'm angry, where can I go on the internet to complain?"
  25. Like
    WonderWAAAGH got a reaction from CaptainJaguarShark in Rules updated Jan 17   
    Looks like we now need a section and definition for "lasting effects."
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