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Everything posted by syrath

  1. Sorry my bad , I really need to read the card , when it comes to Armor it's been that long since it was relevant.
  2. You have Sabotaged communications in your command hand, which may be a bit of an issue since all it would do is remove 1 order from your opponent as you won't be able to issue an order yourself since you have no spec force units. Edit forgot you had the generic commander so scratch the above, i will leave the post here though as a testament to my lack of perception
  3. with the chances of splitting fire I think it would be worth swapping duck and cover on the Bistan unit for Hunter, especially since you have the scopes. As it stands you can either shoot and recover or aim and shoot with him. If you recover Ààthe scopes are not worth the points as you won't get the chance to aim. Duck and cover. So swapping for Hunter you have the possibility of picking up 2 aim tokens of Bistan splits fire (example against Armor you may want to target Bistan o the Armor and the rest of the unit against the nearest fleshy unit. This then frees up Bistan to shoot at Armor ideally wounded and the rest to shoot troopers picking up 2 aim tokens for either attack then they can recover allowing them to remove as many of their suppression as they require.
  4. There has been a chain of events that may have impacted on the original plans. Dewback out on sale with wrong base size. People who bought were asked to contact support to arrange a replacement, those that did were told that they would be dispatched at the time it came back into stock as they were currently out of stock. So those bases were sent out last week I believe. Given that they recalled the Dewbacks and they would.prioritise fixing that "Dewbackle" then that would mean they had an issue with the same bases that are used in TCW sets. It may be that it is all related and that the core sets hit a delay as a result of that.
  5. Anything but in my book played against an army with an single mortar supporting a triple bike list tonight. Even that one unit made its presence felt.
  6. Usually you don't want to remove the suppression from the pathfinders except to manage it it's for the other trooper round about . Jyn doesn't have it natively like Leia so it helps if you want Pau and his unit to be more of a supporter
  7. Not exactly. It's just that equivalent "action economy" exists in the game. Action economy is when a unit gets a benefit from it having to take a action to do something so relentless is action economy, since it allows them to both attack and move which is to be expected of them since they are light cavalry. the free dodges are not action economy however and here is the reason why - All other units have damage mitigation built into them in some way, remove damage by suppression, remove damage by cover keyword remove damage by armor, remove damage by red saves (unless your are Bossk), outside of this you only have cover , which is designed for you to stay in it mainly or move between areas of cover. Other units have recycling dodge tokens, and one gets a dodge token via getting an order all of these also get advantaged by suppression from this point of view. Tauntauns are unique in that they start off with no damage mitigation that covers them like this, their only mitigation is to keep moving. So prior to moving they have nothing round to round, except the odd time they may have cover ( in which case they would be better staying out of LOS entirely since most cover they get will also be LOS cover.) So in general they start the round with no additional mitigation every round, all other units have some form of this inbuilt . Tauntauns HAVE to move to get it. Without the move they get none of the other mitigation benefits other units get built in. That isn't action economy , since they are having to move to get the mitigation other units already have so they only achieve parity by moving not gaining a benefit. The only real benefit they actually get from their move over other units is range not "action economy" and on that they are essentially on par with bikes that cannot be suppressed and 15 points cheaper. (I know Tauntauns have other benefits ). Early on Bikes were popular in the meta but they can be countered.
  8. I've heard a bit recently about how effective Tauntauns are in The game in particular often referencing action economy in that they have 7 actions or equivalent in game making them overpowered and that it has been the biggest instance of power creep. (to be honest that prize goes to both flavours of strike teams IMO , while saboteurs were the harder of the two to pilot both led to a definite change in the meta where your only real choice was to bring 2 or usually 3 of them, if you didn't your list ended up not being competitive at the higher levels) Let's take a closer look at the action economy of the Tauntauns. Agile 1 , every time they move they get a dodge. This in itself sounds very powerful , but forgetting about the fact that getting a dodge on many other units is an action let's take a look at it from the viewpoint of damage mitigation which ultimately is what dodge and cover are all.about Compare with other forms of damage mitigation Airspeeders / Landspeeders / Speeder Bikes who have innate cover 1. This removes.1 non critical.damage from every attack landed on them, is always on and doesn't exhaust itself Jyn Erso/ Sabine / Leia/ Rebel troopers all have nimble, this is important aa all of these have to activate and use an action to dodge first, however once on that damage mitigation recycles again and again until the end of them. Rebel Veterans gain a dodge when they receive an order. This is a limited resource though it doesn't cost them an action. Unlike the above this is also.like the Tauntauns. Any form of Armor has mitigation that is always on and effectively removes damage , so excepting critical and impact hits the hits are removed , even in the case of impact of through hits are removed at the dodge and cover step and no hits remain impact doesn't come into play. This does not cost an action or have any requirements to activate. Troopers including emplacment troopers but excluding creature trooper can have a suppression token , this allows them to remove one non critical hit per attack. While the majority of the imperial do not have then benefits the rebels get with dodges they do have better Armor and as result this.balances out against the rebel equivalent. The Tauntauns get no damage mitigation benefit from suppression, have no Armor keyword, have no cover keyword, all of which are permanent once active , all of which do not require an action on the part of the unit being attacked. The Tauntauns also get cover way less than their rebel trooper counterparts, firstly being larger and secondly anything that doesn't impede their movement also doesn't provide cover so the cover they do get would be from Line of sight blocking terrain. A correctly made table should have some of this but should have open terrain as well that you can at up near, which means melee units should be forced to run across at least some open terrain before getting to you. If not then The table hasn't been laid out well or you have deployed poorly . If the Tauntauns can sneak about in this avoiding shots speeder bikes , landapeeders, airspeeders can also knock around getting extra cover however for an extra 10 points 2 of these units can sit in open terrain and also still benefit from full cover anyway. So the only additional damage mitigation that a Tauntauns gets is the single dodge token they get in each move. This is dependent on the Tauntauns moving early in some way and is a limited resource, though it is possible to get 3 or 4 dodge token in a Leia list advanced positions along with no time for sorrows. Ultimately though is this any different than an airspeeder/ landspeeder with an outer rim pilot getting shot twice. Aggregate the same number of wounds get mitigated . This didn't stop DLT from taking shots at Airspeeders before because they knew they had no choice, and the Airspeeders stopped getting played because of DLT gunlines even though they had the equivalent of an always on equivalent of a dodge (and even the enticement of a second "dodge" with the outer rim pilot wasnt enough for it to see play. So are these.dodges provided real additional action economy or are they just required damage mitigation to make them playable. Example if you removed the Agile keyword from it entirely then most shots would be going straight to saves unless the unit stood still for an action to dodge (see below for what that does). Similarly if you limit it to one dodge gained the unit then the damage will often go straight to saves with no damage mitigated at the dodge and cover step after the first bit of damage) Now if you look at any of the other white save units, how often do you have a shot at them where they have no suppression , no cover etc, even without dodging these units always have access to a few forms of readily available dmg mitigation whether it's cover (inbuilt or otherwise. Over a game count how many wounds get mitigated by white save units by cover, Armor era and see how much damage is avoided. The Tauntauns get normally 2 per round removed or 1 if they are suppressed. they may get more , however that isn't a factor of.Tauntauns action economy it's a factor of the deployment or.the commanders command card, or occasionally if they get cover. So IMO scratch this from the action economy to bring it down to 5 since it falls under regular damage mitigation which this unit loses completely without it that other units have an easier time getting it naturally. Ahh, I hear you say they have other "action economy" as they get relentless and can attack at the end of their move. . Well to be honest so do a lot of melee cards. Vader, Chewbacca, Wookie Warriors , Imperial Royal Guard, and other melee-lite characters also get charge albeit in command cards or upgrades . Jyn Erso, Bossk even Palpatine can attack outside their actions during their activation. So this isn't unusual in itself. It is more unusual in that they get it via relentless, which Vader had and this allows them to So attack at range. Lets take a look at the reasoning behind this because the reasons are important. Tauntauns are cavalry, highly mobile and able to move quickly over the battlefield. Vader is a slow mover. If he didn't have relentless he would have to stop every now and then if you wished to attack with him. Without his two moves he won't get anywhere. So he needs relentless to be useful. Now let's imagine the supposed most mobile living creature unit in Star Wars If you remove relentless. Yes it moves at movement 3 (7inches) and Vader moves at movement 1 (3 inches) so a double move Vader moves at 8 inch or so and the single move Tauntauns move 9 inch ( for reference the occupier moves faster). So if they have to stop to attack or if they have to stop to dodge they get about an inch further than Vader once you take into account bases. So the supposed fastest unit in the game outside of speeders is no w nearly as slow as Vader Again this shows the necessity of relentless on the unit. Moving onto reposition, r ead the above but apply it to ATRT who cannot reposition. This makes sense that they should be able to be as maneuverable as a normal trooper in the film they could turn on a dime, so to speak, however the vehicles get to be less maneuverable by virtue of their extra resilience in their Armor. So this is to make the unit realistic in that it can turn easier than other creature troops may be able to, but not as easy as perhaps troopers, since you cannot rotate more than 90 degree . This doesn't make them better or worse than trooper or vehicles just different with the movement somewhere between an ATRT and a standard trooper. The trade off is.resilience.as you go trooper Tauntauns - Vehicles losing maneuverability as you go. So really when it comes right down to it the thing that annoys most people is how effective they are. I've established that the move 3 is necessary and with it the Agile ( to provide some damage mitigation that it loses over other white save units), reposition let's it move about the battlefield like light cavalry , even relentless is necessary since they are essentially light cavalry able to move and attack quickly. Remove any of this and they are no longer light cavalry moving only just faster than Vader and still slower than a heavy tank. So what makes people annoyed with them, only two things are left their attack (including then RAM keyword) and their ability to displace. Now any large base unit in the game that isn't an emplacment trooper does this, so it cannot be that so it must be the fact that they combine speed with an impactful attack. Black Black White or their red red isn't anything to write home about , ultimately it's similar to what Jyn Erso has with red red white as a shot and 4 black in melee (which is better even counting RAM. Summing up an ATRT is like heavy cavalry the Tauntauns are light cavalry comparing a single Tauntaun with a single ATRT, the Tauntauns get maneuverability, the ATRT gets to plod along behind it and is way more robust and does more damage either ranged or melee. the ATRT is 10 points more per figure though. To sum up people just haven't figured them out yet IMO. I can understand why people jump on its "action economy" but outside speeder bikes we haven't seen light cavalry in the game yet and certainly they are the closest relatives in the game, with a similar skill set, and even similar.damage, one is more suited to ranged attacks, the other gets more into melee In fact if you look at speeder bikes in comparison Ability to move and attack speeder bikes can take 2 speed 3 moves and can still attack (can opt out the attack for more moves if needed) Tauntauns can take 2 speed 3 moves and can attack but cannot do more than 2 but speeder bikes cannot reposition without using a move so Bikes are better in a straight line and can travel further if the forgo the attack Wounds and damage mitigation bikes get 3 wounds but have always on cover Tauntauns get 4 wounds and require to move before getting a dodge or two (which can mitigate 2 wounds over all the attacks they recieve) So this is completely dependant on how many attacks received bikes do better shooting into armor, but are limited to frontal firing with their best weapon though they lack sharpshooter and roll 2 black instead of red, but they can split fire. Hard to say which is better. Tauntauns are better in melee, Bikes can't but can still shooting melee. Bikes are immune to suppression Tauntauns lose half of what they can do as a result of it bikes 75 pts Tauntauns 90 I don't see the reasoning behind the hate of the Tauntauns "action economy" since that economy is effectively mirrored in the bikes. The differences being 4 wounds vs 3 , repositional vs higher top speed, 90 pts vs 75, and suppression vs immunity to it. the only difference beyond that is the Tauntauns ability to melee, and the bikes ability to fly over terrain and units. edit auto correct messed up a lot
  9. The airspeeder is okay, it's not going to break the game with its brilliance anytime soon but IMO it is decent. I prefer the airspeeders because it is a.little !ore offensive and irs arsenal keyword is more relevant, if your opponent didn't bring anti vehicle weaponry you can do some serious damage and now snipers are out the game you can play it and it won't just get shot out of the sky, however you won't have access to the outer rim pilot which can help you out of you have DLT taking pot shots
  10. UK Gt was won with a krennik , shores *2, snipers *2, mortar*2 death troopers and dlt . If Tauntauns were really that good, I do not think that list would have won and it likely faced plenty of Tauntauns lists. https://legionacademy.podbean.com/e/episode-26-beating-a-dead-tauntaun/ If you want to hear some ways to beat the TTs go listen to this podcast. When we see Tauntauns become a feature of a minimum 2 in every rebel list and those lists start winning in competitive play, especially if it's after the dust of being a new unit had settled then I'll happily say they are overpowered..
  11. Moving back to the OP , Choosing Jyn over Leia is a matter of choice, Leia is cheaper and easier to play with and is certainly more forgiving of mistake plays. Her presence of the board is felt from the first turn when you will usually drop Coordinated bombardment getting a double red , sharpshooter 2 (so you think hiding behind that barrier means anything attack at the end of her activation on 3 units is a great opening activation. Her 2 pip essentially gives better board presence where you can have a number of units advance their positions about 4 inch which can help land surprise attacks from more damaging units like pathfinders and fleet troopers, and finally being able to activate two units back to back can be a great play at any point in the turn. Moving onto Jyns cards , Rebellious doesn't have the same initial impact coordinated bombardment doea, but played correctly can help out in many ways. Does Jyn have a box grab on recover the supplies a unit activating nearby can let her gain an extra move to get out of dodge. Is there a nearby unit that looks like it could be a threat drop this activate Jyn , quick thinking for the dodge and aim, shoot said unit +1 suppression , when it activates shoot it again (another situation Hunter is quite nice on her but still hard to say no to duck and cover, so if you do Hunter I'd say take esteemed leader) now that unit has 2 suppression from Jyn alone before rally. If this suppressed them , job done. I've even charged her into Boba fett preventing him launching his rockets at her (suppressive tonfa is good also). 2 pip is interesting , good targets for the teamwork would be Tauntauns , since you can pick up one or two of their dodges when they move. Jyns own quick thinking can be used to get an aim and dodge on a unit that needs to move and shoot (Bistan maybe, joking of course ,but still a good idea) note though that and interesting combo is another unit with nimble makes a hilarious target. Jyn plays "trust goes both ways" on Leia/Sabine/rebel trooper unit activates first and hits quick thinking. Now many players don't pick up their dodge tokens when a nimble unit gets shot, but the correct order of play is you spend your dodge token, and then replace it, so the nimble unit just got a new dodge token, so teamworks it back to the other unit. If the other unit gets shot you spend the dodge and cycle it back to Jyn, making both units quite tanky for that turn. Finally one of the best late game cards in the game (in my opinion, although it's hard to argue against a well played "And now you will die") is Complete the mission. If you find yourself flooded with suppression with units near to running, or you need to guarantee that the unit needs to have both actions I their activation, drop this card and you can guarantee those 3 units won't run and and won't panic. If this is a last turn play then you don't have to worry about suppression. If it's a pathfinder unit or Jyn you can push the suppression to three or four knowing that you can recover on your turn resetting everything again (HQ uplink works well here) , another good Bistan tactic for resetting his weapon on the turn before he can launch another attack), or just use it to make sure that unit runs into your opponents zone in breakthrough , or lands on an objective , or keeps a hold of a box. I've used that one many a time but I had loaded up suppression on intercept the transmission and had Jyns, Pau and his pathfinders (actually they were all dead just Pau and Jyn remaind) sitting on the objective , each had 4 or more suppression going into turn 6 , complete the mission stopped Pau running off the objective, winning me the game. The suppression also kept both alive from fire including from an AT ST in open terrain (low profile also helped here ) IMO it's worth persevering if you don't get her immediately, first two games she was out by turn 2 with me, but she hasn't served me bad since, even on the games I've lost (won more than I've lost so I'm not complaining)
  12. Yeah, anyway it is one of the highest damage attacks in the game (that is till Oct 4th when clone wars drops then even more fire support hits the table (Kenobi saber throw /bars speeder, operative Luke with impact and pierce). Also if you wanted to be less aggressive with the above tactics , deploy Boston at range 4 and lose 4 white dice (for a 1.5 drop, but still 6.125 dmg then pull back out of range with your move or if they only have range 3 you can recover and let them come to you, even if they remove the suppression they can't hit range 3 , letting you shoot again with Bistan for his regular non-fire support damage on turn 2, then fade him back a bit. Edit: it's worth noting that Bistan shooting into droids may be fun.
  13. Not really just about all the one pip cards that would be played are commander only so it depends who you line up against. If you see Han or Krennik on can choose your target or hang back if you see someone else you can line up the shot. If you can land 7 or 8 saves on Palpatine you might even turn 1 kill him with some more shots , well worth throwing Bistan to the wolves . I'm generally not a fan of being this aggressive but it can and does work.
  14. To be honest crit 2 won't makers difference except when shooting into guardian or armour since you should always be getting enough regular hits that will be removed by cover or dodges off anyway. So those hits only count when shooting into Armor(factored that I into my calc) or guardian.
  15. Now add damage results for all the units with fire support from the mk2 blaster (or just add 2.5 damage to the base attack)
  16. Is it? Rebel Veterans with an HQ uplink and recon can sit a mk2 blaster 8 inches outside your deployment zone , with advanced positions you can add another move 1 onto that. You can drop the Bistan unit just outside range 3 recon that also to range 3 then play sabotaged communications, hq uplink the veterans and get a face up order token on your Mk2 blaster and turn 1 blast your target for 7.625 (5.125 impact) average damage without the aim , park on an occupier tanks side and you can land 6.125 hits on it before they can even activate.. Don't see how that is so hard to set up.
  17. You missed that I mentioned fire supported, which means an additional 4 black.
  18. Okay 4 pathfinders roll double white for 8 Bistan adds 1 black 4 white , fire supporting for the 4 black for. The mk2 blaster. So 5 black 12 white. Since pathfinders surge to hit we get 3 hits out of 8 for ever white (12 dice for 36) and 5 hits on of 8 on black (5 dice for 25) totalling 61 hits out of every 8 attacks 17 of which will be criticals and 17 of which will be surges and 27 will be regular hits . 61 divide by 8= 7.625 (so you are correct my maths was out) However of those 17/8 are crits for 2.125 crit hits and 2.125 surge hits so against Armor you get 2.125 crits 2.125 surges (2 convert to crit s by critical 2) and impact 1 converts a hit to a crit for 2.125 +2 +1 Vs armor= 5.125 hits on armor. Sorry for the miscount but still impressive damage. It gets better with Hunter (and maybe targeting scopes here though as being able to re-roll 1-2 black and a white or two works very well , just ask stormtroopers.
  19. Of course I meant Bistan though, one of the few recover weapons I would like to use, how about fire supporting him for 12 white 5 black pool with impact 1 and ion. Even rounds where his gun isn't recovered the whole unit hits for 10 white. Edit for those not not maths inclined that's 8.625 average wounds and with impact 1 Ion 1 critical 2 that makes for an average vehcle hit of 5.125 hits into armor.¡ll
  20. Boston could be fun in a vehicle heavy meta , you could even split fire with him, although I'd consider Hunter instead of Duck &Cover , I feel a suppression heavy meta coming especially with Imperial players.
  21. Range 2-3 shots are doable however being able to split shot is an advantage.
  22. Rocket launcher RBW Gunner WW Mk2 medium blaster BBBB 154 points for Average DMG 5.125 wounds per grouped shot Airspeeders average (no surge) 3.75_ cost 140 and cannot Arsenal onto the same target with a second weapon.
  23. Three end up being nearly 300 pts and the third unit doesn't have a heavy option. I'd not recommend three to begin with. If you find you like the playy style with it you might find it worthwhile
  24. Agreed, I'll often not play any more than that. Weirdly my next competition on Saturday I'm taking a pathfinder unit without a heavy
  25. Could see that but I definitely don't think the e-web at this time is a bad choice as is.
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