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Vorzakk

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  1. Like
    Vorzakk got a reaction from Harlock999 in The Mandalorian Season 2!   
    What is it about the SW setting that it only takes 20-30 years for history to become the stuff of myth and legend?  That woman's description of the Jedi sounds like someone from today describing Rubik's Cubes as "enigmatic devices which once enthralled the minds of millions!"
  2. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to Kyla in Buying and Selling: Refusing the Deal.   
    Been a while since I weighed in on something, and this seems like it needs a moderate perspective. I can see the positive aspects of both sides in this debate and have kind of struggled with what to do with it myself. Usually, my response is to determine allowing backing out of a deal on a "case by case" basis, but in practice I have always wound up coming down on the side of "the roll is the roll." Let me explain why.
    To compare, I will first look at a few skills already mentioned that no one has debated the understanding of, that of combat skills for attack, and then also compare it to very mundane skills like astrogation and knowledge skills. As the Force and Destiny Core Rulebook was the most recently published (and therefore should represent the newest understanding of the rules), I will use that for rules statements.
    When speaking of combat mechanically, a character rolls their combat skill to determine a few things. First, the accuracy of the attack - not only whether the attack hit, but also the location of the hit regarding a glance, solid, or especially vital hit. This is shown through adding damage to the attack (indicating the attack landed in a vital location, or merely did the least required to contact the target) with successes. Second, the roll also allows for the unique power of the weapon to be utilized (a low critical rating, the ability to hit multiple targets or multiple times). Finally, it is used to determine the ebb and flow of combat over a period of time (in this case one round) and takes into account (through the use of maneuvers and the characters action) how a character has utilized their time on this round (have they moved quickly to engage, have the taken time to aim their shot, have they merely stood still and swung away, etc). Narratively, it has been oft repeated that a single attack action represents many swings and counters, a flurry of attacks and dodges, and is not a single swing for a single roll. This means that while a single roll was made, it represents a large number of “things” (in this case foot movements and attacks) that result in a single, summarized, outcome of all effort made in the action. (“Conflicts and Combat” page 203)
    When speaking mechanically of astrogation, a character rolls a single time to also determine a few things. First, the time it takes overall to program the nav computer with the jump coordinates and route, this is shown in the use of additional successes and triumphs being used to allow the acting character to reduce the time it took to program the computer. Second, the check determines the location relative to the destination that the ship will emerge from hyperspace into, represented as also being able to use additional successes to better target the destination location, bringing the ship into the orbit of the planet on exiting hyperspace instead of merely reaching the system itself. Finally, the check also determines the overall time that it will take the ship to complete said jump, as advantages and triumph can be used to decrease the travel time in hyperspace itself. Narratively, this skill check represents many things as well, numerous star chart references, computer calculations, and route choice comparisons before the actor making the check “settles” on the final jump route. (“Astrogation (Intellect)” page 114)
    Finally, when making a knowledge check, we also see the skill represents multiple independent “things,” specifically researching sources for answers, with additional success reducing the time it takes to complete the research, the amount and specificity of information recalled or researched through the use of advantages and triumphs to learn additional details beyond the basics. Narratively, this represents cross-references sources, be they memory, books, or even knowledge experts, before getting the total information they have access to by the check’s end. (“Knowledge Skills” page 132)
    Comparing that to a negotiation check, it also encompasses multiple independent “things.” Specifically relating to buying, it represents the ability to locate the desired item on the planet and it should be noted, this is the only use of the skill listed when the character is purchasing an item(s), and the use of threats to increase the cost of the PCs items being purchased (we can infer the reason for this is the availability of the item increasing the price through the principles of supply and demand). When selling an item(s) the skill check represents multiple things: final “haggled” price overall that has been reached between parties is represented by the use of success to adjust the character’s profit by 5% or length of contract, while threats decrease the value or length of contract. Second, the check determines any “side deals” to “sweeten the pot” that are made during the purchasing/selling of items by having advantages spent to either gain unrelated boons, or force the PC to make extra concessions. (“Negotiation (Presence)” page 123)
    Next, let us look at how the book specifically refers to each, to determine if the results of the roll can be refused can be inferred by the books usage.
    When dealing with combat skills, the book specifically states “First and foremost, keep in mind that a combat check is a skill check. It follows all of the rules and procedures for making a skill check, including the steps for assembling the dice pool. However, there are additional steps included in the combat check.” (“Perform a Combat Check” page 210). This means that we can analyze the combat check on the same merits as a Negotiation check. A combat check makes statements that allow us to infer that the making of the check aligns with the physical act of making an attack “Once the player rolls the dice pool for the attack, the player determines the results. As with any skill check, the check must generate more successes than failures to be successful (“Pool Results and Deal Damage” page 210).” Also, using threats or despair physical outcomes of the attack occur as well, such as dropping a weapon or falling prone (“Spending Threats and Despair in Combat” page 212). We can infer from this that should a player roll an attack, they cannot “check the swing” should the attack result in unwanted outcomes.
    When making an Astrogation check, threats and despairs can be spent to “cause the character to miss relevant details when analyzing hyperspace routes or galactic maps” or represent “some truly disastrous occurrence, such as jumping out of hyperspace into the path of an asteroid (“Astrogation (Intellect)” page 115).” Through these uses, we can infer that the roll once again represents the physical act of making the calculations and then performing the jump and after the roll is made they cannot “recalculate” the route if they are unsatisfied with the results.
    Finally, with knowledge skills, we see that it, too has the use of threats and despairs represent the outcome of the physical research done on the check. Threats have the GM omit vital details, whilst the use of despairs have outright falsehood and misinformation. We again can infer that this means the roll represents not just the information gathered, but the physical act of researching it (with threats representing missing a listed detail resulting in omitted information and despairs representing a failure to cross reference information resulting in falsehoods). While one could argue that a character, after having completed the research or recalled the information could choose not to pass it on and try again, it should be noted that uses of successes reduce the time it took in “completing the research.” This is important, for we can infer that the act of making the knowledge check was a “complete” task, meaning that all available sources were checked, and threats mean that information in those sources was missed. The character in this situation would have no reason to assume information would be where it was not previously, and so this precludes a character from being able “take back” the research.
    This means that we will need to determine if a negotiation check should break tradition with the rest of these skills and be an exception. We are ironically aided in this determination specifically because the Negotiation (Presence) skill is an exceptional one in that it is governed by the “Social Skill Interactions” rules (“Negotiation (Presence)” page 123). These rules state specifically that Social Skill Interactions is used “whenever one character attempts to convince another character to act in a specific way (“Social Skill Interactions” page 117).” Also, it is specifically stated that a character “must either pay the seller’s asking price or use the Negotiation skill to haggle (“Negotiation (Presence)” page 123).” Because the Negotiation (Presence) skill us not used until the character knows the offer, and then once the option to haggle is made resulting in the application of results using the “Social Skills Interactions” rules, we can infer that once haggling begins then the acting character convinces the defending character to act in the sale according to the result. This allows us to infer that, like all the other skills we have looked at so far, the results of the roll represent the physical act of the sale. This is again bolstered by the fact (similar to knowledge checks) that it specifically mentioned that “when two individuals create an agreement or treaty they may make an opposed or competitive Negotiation check. The winner gains the better end of the resulting agreement (“Negotiation (Presence)” page 123).” This specifically keys the result of the check to the results of the agreement itself, not just the negotiation of the agreement. It by inference precludes the “backing out” of the deal at that time thanks again to the “Social Skill Interactions” rules stating that the results affect the character’s point of view “for the duration of the scene (“Social Skill Interactions” page 117).” This means that a character could change their mind after they leave the shop, but they would then need to do something about it then, such as going back on the deal after it’s been made (resulting in social complications and fallout) or returning to the other individual later and attempting them to reconsider the deal that was made. In either case, this would be a new encounter, and thus new rolls, but the transmission of services or goods would have already been agreed upon once and traded.
  3. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to P-47 Thunderbolt in The Mandalorian Season 2!   
    I get it, and I think they laid it on a little thick, especially given the relatively recent interactions Mandos had with Jedi.
    I suspend disbelief by saying it's a really big galaxy. Jedi were a very small group, all things considered, and you are highly unlikely to ever interact with them or even hear about them interacting with someone/thing you care about. Those in the core are going to know a whole lot more than those on the fringes.
    Then the Empire went out of its way to tamp down on information about the Jedi while also spreading misinformation.
    And never underestimate just how forgetful people can be. There's a poll that came out recently showing young people in America have a disturbingly abysmal knowledge of the holocaust, a shockingly large number thinking it was something the Jews did. And that's when they were (at least, I'd hope they were) taught about it. It's been just 75 years of "Never Forget" and we've already forgotten. After 50 years of trying to make people forget, I'm not surprised so many seem to have never known the Jedi existed. After all, where do you learn your history? It wasn't from experiencing it. As for "well, my [living ancestral relation] lived it" did they see it themselves, or was it relayed to them? When they were told that the information "was propaganda meant to turn you towards the traitors" did they have enough information to go "oh, there's something more to this," or did they just accept it at face value?
    Most people accept what they are told by everything around them more-or-less at face value.
    I think they're laying it on a bit strong though.
  4. Like
    Vorzakk got a reaction from Sturn in The Mandalorian Season 2!   
    What is it about the SW setting that it only takes 20-30 years for history to become the stuff of myth and legend?  That woman's description of the Jedi sounds like someone from today describing Rubik's Cubes as "enigmatic devices which once enthralled the minds of millions!"
  5. Like
    Vorzakk got a reaction from whafrog in The Mandalorian Season 2!   
    What is it about the SW setting that it only takes 20-30 years for history to become the stuff of myth and legend?  That woman's description of the Jedi sounds like someone from today describing Rubik's Cubes as "enigmatic devices which once enthralled the minds of millions!"
  6. Haha
    Vorzakk got a reaction from P-47 Thunderbolt in The Mandalorian Season 2!   
    What is it about the SW setting that it only takes 20-30 years for history to become the stuff of myth and legend?  That woman's description of the Jedi sounds like someone from today describing Rubik's Cubes as "enigmatic devices which once enthralled the minds of millions!"
  7. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to P-47 Thunderbolt in GM!!!   
    You made the right call.
    A failure can have a beneficial effect, but it shouldn't turn the check into a success. By "turn the check into a success" I mean accomplish the same thing as succeeding would.
    Having part of the ceiling collapse and affect the target is a good idea, but it certainly shouldn't knock him out.
  8. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to HappyDaze in Ship Acquisition Ideas   
    Character's grandmother won it in a raffle. She never really had a use for it.
  9. Like
    Vorzakk got a reaction from LStyer in Jabba   
    Did any writer every address Obi-Wan's comment about Owen's attitude towards Anakin.
    "He thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."
    He was already 'involved' the first time they met. 
    Was this chalked up to another random Obi-Wan lie?
  10. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to 2P51 in Ship art   
  11. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to 2P51 in Ship art   
  12. Like
    Vorzakk got a reaction from whafrog in RPG beginners wants to start a duo game, is it possible ?   
    When it comes to making balanced encounters; if you're not sure how many bad guys to include, I find it's always better to err on the side of too few.  If there are too few, it's usually no problem to have reinforcements arrive from nearby; but if it's too many, it's a little more difficult to back out of. 
  13. Like
    Vorzakk got a reaction from Rimsen in RPG beginners wants to start a duo game, is it possible ?   
    When it comes to making balanced encounters; if you're not sure how many bad guys to include, I find it's always better to err on the side of too few.  If there are too few, it's usually no problem to have reinforcements arrive from nearby; but if it's too many, it's a little more difficult to back out of. 
  14. Thanks
    Vorzakk got a reaction from Absol197 in RPG beginners wants to start a duo game, is it possible ?   
    When it comes to making balanced encounters; if you're not sure how many bad guys to include, I find it's always better to err on the side of too few.  If there are too few, it's usually no problem to have reinforcements arrive from nearby; but if it's too many, it's a little more difficult to back out of. 
  15. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to micheldebruyn in The Holonet and Interstellar Communications   
    I prefer my Star Wars to not have anything remotely resembling modern communication tech and internet and he like. It has 70s tech with a sci-fi coat of paint. Comlinks aren't cell phones, they're walkie-talkies.
  16. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to Stan Fresh in Armor House Rule   
  17. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to Absol197 in Armor House Rule   
    Okay, well, I tried. 
    Here's the thing, Tramp: you've made your position very clear.  We all know the definitions of hit and miss.  Every other person in this thread subscribes to the, as I'll call it, "loose narrative interpretation" of this mechanic.  You clearly don't.  
    You will not be able to convince us that the rules are intended to be interpreted otherwise, and we obviously won't be able to convince you otherwise.  So why don't we stop? 
    I'm gonna stop.  But maybe everyone will be able to have a little less stress if we just agree to disagree?
  18. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to Nytwyng in Armor House Rule   
    If he hadn’t displayed this behavior long before, I’d salute his noble sacrifice. 🤣
  19. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to Absol197 in Armor House Rule   
    I didn't want to get into this, but Tramp, you're conflating the game term "miss," used as a convenient short-hand for a failed combat check (both to reduce cognitive load for learning rules as well as save page space when a term needs to be used many times in rapid succession), with the English word "miss," which would mean to fail to make contact with a target. 
    This is reasonable: they're the exact same word, after all.  But when effects, weapon qualities, abilities, talents, and general rules say "on a miss..." they are using the game term.  This is just like the game term "wound," which is not a literal wound, the literal wounds a character suffers within the fiction of the game world are recognized through the "critical injury" game mechanic. 
    Similarly, there is a game term "hit" that means, "one instance of applying a weapon's base damage, plus any net successes, to the target."  Again, this shorthand is used in order to reduce complicated jargon and save page space in an already over-large book.
    These game terms are not intended to be definitively descriptive of the events occurring within the story. A "hit" (game term) does not necessarily need to be a "hit" (English word for impact with the target).  Similarly, a "miss" (game term)  can still be a "hit" (English word); how this happens is the hit (English word) is a glancing strike, diffused by armor or other impediments, or otherwise rendered soft enough to not affect game stats.  This is how armor can turn a hit/hit (game term/English word) into a miss/hit (game term/English word).  The blaster bolt still impacted the character, but because of the armor, the target took no damage and none of the weapons other properties could be leveraged.
    Now, is this explicitly spelled out in the book?  No.  Is it potentially confusing?  Absolutely.  This thread is proof enough of that.  But it's important to remember that just because something isn't capitalized doesn't mean it isn't a game term ("wound" and "wounds" are never capitalized, for instance), and game terms don't perfectly reflect the events in the story (a character with wounds has the in-game status "wounded," but as discussed above may not actually have physical wounds on their body unless they also have a critical injury).
    Words can have different meanings in different contexts, and while playing an RPG, we're constantly working in two different contexts at once - the context of game mechanics to manage player abilities and game integrity, and also the context of events happening within a fictional world where those game mechanics are meaningless.  Now yes, oftentimes the game terms used are chosen to make those two contexts as similar as possible as often as possible, but it's impossible for them to be 100% consistent 100% of the time. 
  20. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to P-47 Thunderbolt in Armor House Rule   
    *Wookiee
  21. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to Nytwyng in Armor House Rule   
    (The sad part is...part of me feels the tug of pointing out the flaws in Tramp’s continued overly-rigid, pedantic, binary interpretation of the system. But it’s all been said before.)
  22. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to Stan Fresh in Armor House Rule   
    Can it? Hm, I dunno. Maybe someone could provide arguments for/against it, so that I can see all the viewpoints on this.
  23. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to Stan Fresh in Armor House Rule   
    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/when-parry-met-eliza-a-ridiculous-chatbot-conversation-from-1972/372428/
    For some reason I'm reminded of this. Who could possibly say why that is.
  24. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to Absol197 in Trends, Statistics, and Predictions!   
    I mean... even if another company is technically doing it, I'm gonna keep posting here as long as this forum still exists 😁.  We may have to start the data -pool over from scratch, but if and when it happens, I will be back! 
    And I'm gonna make an effort to hang out around here more often again.  Despite some ups and downs, there are a lot of good people here 🙂.
  25. Like
    Vorzakk reacted to 2P51 in NPCs...PCs...Monsters...n stuff...art   
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