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Jedi Ronin

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  1. Since I’ve got insomnia.... Out of curiosity I looked over the Yoda (canon) page on wookieepedia and didn’t notice any reference to Yoda being a practitioner of any particular lightsaber style or that he’d mastered them all. So maybe a bit more allowance of differences of opinion on what works, fits, is appropriate, or is canon (if that even matters to you or your table) is called for. Especially in a role-playing game where the social contract is live and let live and a value on exploring concepts and characters and possibilities. Not everything (or much of anything) has to be to your preferences but dictating to others the standard of their preferences breaks that contract. Whatever FFG puts out for “official” named NPCs they’ll be aimed at usability and fun at the table and not comprehensive encapsulating the character (and browbeating players to adhere to it).
  2. Ha. Maybe. If the wookieepedia folks don’t consider novelizations canon (due to statements already cited) and he’s fond of treating them as a definitive source then perhaps. But I wouldn’t count on it.
  3. It would be interesting to get dev feedback. Thinking about it more and given the shield and duffel bag examples I'm inclined to think that the attribute has to do something in the game. In the case of shields they can be used to attack right (the Sith Shield can but it isn't cumbersome or unwieldy)? So maybe it applies only physical checks or maybe even all checks (it's distracting mentally for Intellect, Cunning, Willpower, Presence checks).
  4. Jedi Ronin

    Juyo Berserker questions

    Yeah, the players should role-play it and engage with it but the GM has a big stick - "Bounty hunters show up!". With Obligations the GM can pull off Obligation triggering without it being ham-fisted and stepping over the line because it involves stuff the GM is supposed to do every session (control NPCs). With Morality there's not much there except awarding Conflict and even there the player had to do something to earn it first. If a player isn't engaging their Morality Strength/Weakness there's not much the GM can do ("Hey, uh, don't you think you'd be really Angry in this scenario?"). But that's just my experience with it at the table.
  5. And that's why they clarified it. The novelizations writer do get the scripts but the script isn't exactly what makes it to film and so they can't avoid discrepancies and release the novelization at the time of the movie release. This happened with The Force Awakens from what I understand. And has happened in the past as you mention.
  6. Maybe. But I don't think so. But what do I now. The statement I mentioned about new "cannon" era was made when (I think) Force Awakens came out. I don't know that the stance was or is regarding novelizations of non "new cannon" era films. But in general I thought the novelizations weren't canon. I could be wrong. The "what is canon" question seems to be the one that most annoys the story team people. EDIT Looking at the star wars fandom wiki: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Canon_policy "Del Rey states that film novelizations, film junior novelizations, and the Star Wars: The Clone Wars film novelization "are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie." Wookieepedia Canon articles treat these novelizations as non-canon Legends material." So the wiki doesn't treat them as canon. The Del Rey "quote" would indicate why - my memory of the stance was incorrect and their stance is stricter then what I thought: if it's in line with what you see on screen and not "it's canon if it isn't contradicted". Of course some fans can fly a star destroyer through the wide space they see in "align with what is seen on screen". This is also assuming that the wiki quote is accurate. MORE EDIT The Del Rey quote is accurate, from a tweet: "To clarify, movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie." So does that mean that the thoughts of Dooku about lightsaber forms and Anakin in RotS novelization is canon - i.e., they will editorially push back against writers who might contradict that? Who knows.
  7. Jedi Ronin

    Juyo Berserker questions

    Unlike Obligation and Duty, Morality is a mechanic that highly depends on the players to use it. Obligation and Duty have clear things to allow the GM to jump in and do stuff in the story that involve the particular PC. Morality is a lot more difficult on that front because playing up Emotional Strength/Weakness is really up to the player - it's pretty much out of the GMs hands. The GM's role is in assigning Conflict but gaining Conflict really isn't that much of a story-telling tool from session to session. Falling to the Dark Side or redemption from the Dark Side is a story-telling tool but that's something that spans sessions/story arcs. If the players aren't really interested in it you can just ditch it (meaning no Light side/Dark side paragons) and stop tracking Conflict/Morality and just let the PCs decisions play out in the story (this should be happening anyway). They do evil stuff (falling to the dark side) then the world/story reacts to them as appropriate. It removes the min/max accounting of the dark side as a story element that gets gamed and makes it more pure story/decision driven. This makes Inner Peace less useful but still very useful because it still converts dark side destiny points to light side.
  8. It's my understanding that the novelizations are not canon. Not even the novels in the new "canon era" (Force Awakens, Last Jedi) are canon. Lucasfilm has explicitly said that if the novel and movie contradict (which they do) it's the movie that is "canon". Yes, lots of Legends stuff does mention this. See my previous post. Thanks for you comment though, it's interesting.
  9. It's not canon. But that book does mention lightsaber forms quite a bit. Anakin's fight with Dooku also has a lot of lightsaber form stuff. Legends stuff is still there it's just that "current" Star Wars works aren't beholden to it. But it's obviously still an inspiration and drawn on for current "canon" material. Lightsaber form stuff has made it's way into new canon in limited ways. My real issue is with how insistent and inflexible (and confident) some fans get with "well this thing is canon so X, Y, and Z must be" when very little of what they claim actually is canon and most of what they say is canon is their own interpretation and extrapolation. That sort of stuff is fine and part of the fun but when they act like their opinion is bedrock fact and that other fans should see that and respect it and defer to it - that's the problem. This is particularly out of place in a role-playing game where people doing their own thing is a big part of the point. As an example, several years ago Tramp Graphics and I went back and forth for pages of forum comments arguing about whether Yoda built as a PC had to - absolutely - start in the Consular career. Short retelling: Tramp insisted that yes absolutely, that even if two builds (from Talents, Skills, ranks, motivation, emotional strengh/weakness, everything) were identical that if one of them didn't start Yoda in Consular then that was wrong (because Yoda absolutely had to be a Consular even if there was zero mechanical effect due to canon he couldn't name) and that if he were GM and the game concept was "create a Jedi Council member to play" that he would not allow the player to do that. He even got to the point that he was dictating things to me about my hypothetical force-sensitive doctor character. I see some of that in this thread. Yeah, you can make a good Yoda PC on 2,500 XP (or more). But it's the insistence that the only true or good Yoda concept is that (and a long list of other specifics that must be there). There's zero flexibility or letting others do the same thing you are. And as I said, in role-playing games this violates the basic social contract at the table.
  10. Nice, you did find something - an actual canonical reference that actually mentions form IV: Star Wars Rebels. Good to know. Thanks (no, I'm not being sarcastic). I'd forgotten about that scene. From Rebels I only remembered the Inquisitor sizing up Kanan when first meeting him as a practitioner of Form III (and we see Kanan's to-be master teaching/drilling/testing initiates in Form III in the Kanan comic). Still no info on who had mastered it or who it's practitioners definitely were - of course going on the logic you typically employ Anakin is definitely a practitioner and master (he's teaching it afterall). Or what the form actually entails except it needs adjustments to work against ranged attackers.
  11. So, it's not canon. You seem to have a habit of extrapolating things to extremes (and being very very certain about them. Yoda being mentioned as a lightsaber master in no way implies that he's mastered all lightsaber forms - at least as lightsaber forms have been defined in Legends and in any sense where the sentence "Jedi X is a practitioner of form Y" makes much sense. Maybe the comics mentioned it (any of it from Ataru, to Yoda using Ataru to Yoda mastering all forms). I'm not claiming it's never said but you sounded so certain I thought you had an actual source in mind. I'd really like to know. I have all the comics at home but I'm not going to take the time tonight to reread or scan all of them. And saying he's definitely a master of Ataru is your interpretation of the movies. At no time that I'm aware of does anyone say that the style he's using is Ataru. Legends does (I believe, I'm not well versed in Legends). Technically Ataru being a style isn't canonical at this point as I don't know that it's ever mentioned. And is there any canonical source that says not only that Ataru (or Form IV) exists but that it's a style characterized as "acrobatic" etc as Legends defines it? It could just be that Yoda has an "acrobatic" combat style because everyone he fights is 2-3 times taller than him? Supposedly Qui-gon (non-canoncially) was also an Ataru practitioner but he doesn't fight like Yoda does. I could go on (I do have 15 years experience in the martial arts) and while I think the idea of lightsaber styles is interesting and adds cool flavor it gets more silly the more it's examined. I know Nick Gillard thought a lot about the fight sequences he choreographed and each character's style but I don't know if he ever thought of them as specific 'lightsaber' styles (but more of a particalar character's style in handling a lightsaber).
  12. The "starting PC resource" Holocron grants bonus skill access at Career discount but the lengthier discussion of what a Holocron introduced into the game indicates it can do pretty much whatever you want. So, adding cool Jedi-centric skills as Career skills is nice (like Lightsaber, Discipline, Lore, etc). It could also take the place of a Mentor and grant that benefit. Although I like Stan Fresh's idea: some vergence (dark side) on Cholgana that the PCs have to deal with that has at it's heart some "old" but serviceable lightsabers (or a Holocron or kyber crystals, whatever your PCs need to progress). Maybe one of the villagers from the crash survivors are missing and are somehow trapped (physically, psychologically/mentally) in the vergence and the PCs are asked to find out what happened to them. IF you have the F&D beta book you can use the last encounter of it's adventure to flesh this out more.
  13. Jedi Ronin

    Lets talk Coercion!

    I could see that scenario using Negotiation or Coercion. I'd let the PC decide (I try to let PCs use their preferred skills if it's not ridiculous, particularly if they're not often used skills).
  14. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that scenario (good one) but I'd say that if a shield has Cumbersome then it would apply when attacking with a different item. Don't know if that's RAW but it's what I'd rule at the table.