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  1. What you seem to be missing is we are discussing a field effect which is NOT affected by a weapons PEN, jfc how hard was it to grasp that? We already HAVE invulnerable saves in DH, so your entire argument is invalid. at least do me the courtesy of reading the entire thread next time, and not cherry picking the bits you want to ***** about.
  2. I guess if you wish to be so literal, then yes I would imagine for someone who cannot see it was just an example of a low threat attack vrs a high threat attack, then that is your issue. Next time I will say a shot from a slug revolver with zero pen and low damage compared to a las cannon, just to keep you content.
  3. What? are you drunk? WTF does what you are ranting about have anything to do with the topic of this thread?
  4. I don't know why people keep using this example, I don't remember any codexes having entries for thrown rocks as weapons. Seriously, it's a sh*tty comparison. Sorry what? It highlights that the character can regardless of what he/she is being attacked by, no matter what grade of weapon it is have a flat percentile chance of avoiding it ( From weak underwhelming weapons like fists and knives, to Star ship sized lasers mounted on super heavy tank chassis) , Ragnar Blackmane had a 50% chance to avoid any attack, and that is what I was talking about. Were you trying troll me? that is all you have to say on this entire topic? I expect better from you. Seriously, if that was too esoteric for you to grasp, then I have been severely overestimating your intelligence.
  5. No, you can chose to destroy the armour on the hit location to remove the AP value from the damage. And that is how armour works, it either stops the attack or it doesn't, currently it never stops damage EVER. I do not understand your issue, you hate TB because it is unrealistic and I give you an alternative that is realistic and you are not happy with that?
  6. I think the idea is not so much he is in flak and has 25% chance because that does sound iffy to say the least, but as almost mystical ability to utilize the armour to avoid damage, I mean this is a fantasy game, think of it like some of the WH40k table top heroes flat unmodified save regardless of whether it is a thrown rock or a defense laser. It is a top rank ability, with a stupid amount of exp required to get, and it still is only the same as a field that costs some Req? As for the auto cannon, 4 pen that means any armour of 4AP or less doesnt get to absorb it, and anything above 4AP gets -40 to the roll to absorb it.
  7. The real first complaint would be talent/skill bloat, and then an extra roll. However, I do kinda like this system to a certain extent. From a certain practical perspective, DH will always be a bloated monstrosity of a system, so what's one more such mechanic added on. Under that light, the system seems to work. I do question a couple things: how would power armors stack up here (it's not unusual for high-level, Ascension-style parties to have one or two guys stacked up in light or standard power armor), and how would force fields work? @AtoMaki: my only concern for being able to shrug off extreme damage would come from the Armour Master talent, which always allows a 25% chance to absorb a hit. That is a bit...extreme, to say the least. But removing that, I scrolled through the Macharian Handbook and I couldn't find a weapon that was unduly affected by this mechanic. Which weapons would you be concerned about? The 25% figure is a 1 in 4 chance for people not dying to nasty guns, and it is going to be very expensive to acquire, and the game needs more defensive options added to it. it can of course be adjusted down if needed, this was purely a concept to be tested, and added because I didn't want to rework the entirety of the weapon tables, adjusting pen and + damage modifiers to adjust to zero TB. As for power armour, I would probably scale it around the same levels ST carapace, but give it additional benefits, for example penetrating hits not destroying the section until it has taken x amount of penetrating hits. When I get around to it, I will also add Armour customisation options just like we have for guns and gear.
  8. Yes basically, the only other way of removing TB means importing another game systems mechanics, usually adding more wounds to everyone, this has 40K flavour though in TTyou get to save to not take damage, and that was my inspiration for attempting a solution here.
  9. So i have been giving this plenty of thought and I am going to lay it out to be discussed by everyone. Basically after reading the many many threads about TB being skin armour, and people being unhappy with it, and how ineffective armour is, this is my concept for changing the system. ( and this is going to be a long post, sorry in advance.) Currently Armour is negligible, and doesn't work how armour should work, I say this because no matter if what you get hit with you take damage regardless on whether it was penetrated or not. So we remove TB, unless you have unnatural toughness in which case you get to remove your TB from damage taken, and UT no longer adds TB or multiplies it, it just allows you to apply your TB like TB currently works for everyone. This would make SM tough, but not immune to small arms as is often touted as being a bad problem. Now for the Armour system. Skills added : Light Armour : Trained / +10 / +20 / +30 Heavy Armour : Trained / + 10 / +20 / +30 All armour types get a flat % chance to absorb a hit, the relevant skills add to the % chance. Light Armour : Flak : Mesh : Armored Bodyglove Heavy Armour : Light carapace : StormTrooper Carapace Flak 33% Mesh 33% Armored BG 33% Light Carapace 45% ST Carapace 55% The idea I have is weapon pen values add a cumulative -10 to the chance to absorb a hit per point of pen. If the weapons pen is high enough to reduce the armour to zero AP, you do not get to roll. With the addendum that you can choose when hit by a weapon that penetrates your armour totally, to reduce the damage taken by the AP of the hit location, and then your AP is reduced to zero in that location as it has been destroyed absorbing some of the force of the hit in the process. Talents : Light Armour Mastery ; Reqs : Agility 50, Light Armour + 30 You wear your armour like a second skin, gaining the ability to move at full speed silently, and add one AP to all locations of any light armour worn. Once per game session you may spend a fate point to count as having rolled a 01 for your armour absorb chance on any non penetrating hit. Heavy Armour Mastery : Reqs : Str 50, Heavy Armour +30 Due to countless hours of training in full combat load you gain the following benefits : Falling damage is reduced by 50% rounded down, you no are no longer encumbered by wearing heavy armour, no penaltys to agility when in heavy armour. Once per game you can spend a fate point to count as having rolled a 01 for your armour absorb chance on any non penetrating hit. Armour Master : Reqs : either light or heavy armour mastery Your ability to use your armour is unparalleled, when hit by a penetrating hit you always have a chance to absorb the hit. You always have a 25% chance to absorb any hit taken. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So! that is my basic concept, it has scope to be expanded of course, and certainly would need some testing as to its viability, but I would welcome any constructive feedback on it. Thanks for taking the time to read it
  10. As I already posted elsewhere, This is a terrible change, because everything is offensively designed, skills, talents, traits, you get dodge and parry to offset all them pages and pages and pages and pages of nasty ability's and weapons. All you needed to do to make accurate weapons harder to dodge and make the sniper more equal mid to late game with multi attack characters was simply this : Accurate basic weapons gain 1d10 bonus damage and -10 dodge per 2 degrees of success, damage is capped at bonus 2d10 thats it, so at best a super sniper who has got 8 DOS gives his Opponent a -40 to dodge the attack. And leave dodging the way it was, because opposed is terrible. Also called shots : -20 to dodge. That ties in with the maximum negative value of -60 to a skill test. Simple changes that do not break the system.
  11. BS +5 x4 Agility + 5 x4 Per +5 x4 Awareness + 10 x2 Lightning reflexes Rapid Reaction Quick Draw Leap up Two Wpn wielder Ballistic Ambidexstrous Gunslinger Hipshooting Heightened Senses : Sight Heightened Senses : sound Marksman Deadeye Shot Sharp Shooter All tied in around being able to respond faster than a normal person can when combat / surprise is about to begin, they all meant my character was unique in the group in that specific situation, he was designed around being very fast, very hard to get the drop on, and very deadly. And it was a lot of exp. I do not see everyone taking all the same skills, I never ever have done, but maybe I am just particularly lucky with the group I game with? we have 8 people inc the one who GM's.
  12. One : I love new mechanics. Two : I love new games. Three : I love finding new games with new mechanics. Four : I like complex involved games that require thinking. Five : I like games that are balanced top down, not bottom up. Six : Expressing my concerns for exciting system becoming, bland systems that try to please everyone in some misguided attempt at pleasing everyone, and making everyone feel special, in no shape or form makes me a Grognard. Seven : Do not ever call me one again. Eight : Have a merry Christmas. Nine : Sorry for the off topic post, but CPS has been doing his usual talk crap to everyone who doesn't agree with him, or offers counterpoints he cannot in any other way than by name calling or being derogatory. Ten : Sorry Nimsim I am on the band wagon for Ready Action staying, and this is because I have only ever seen weapons being dropped in truly dire situations in the games I take part in ( I do not GM) for example my rank 9 gunslinger getting jumped by a genestealer, I managed to roll well enough to notice it in position prior to ambushing us, so I got to drop my auto pistols, and quick draw my two Mauler Bolt pistols, instead of being dinner without knowing much about it, I actually managed to drive it off, ( I paid for it later when it eviscerated me and I had to burn a FP to survive.) So in my example, we had a suspenseful situation, I had to pass a stupidly hard awareness test, and then react fast enough to be able to respond, I could do so because I had spent a lot of EXP on being fast and deadly with pistols, I was out in front because I was the most suited character to the job, in your system, anyone could have done it, in the current one, there are repercussions for not playing well, taking out the actions you proposed is yet another step into blandville for me. Characters should have roles, they should not all be able to do the same things, sure some overlap for the sake of viability, but not everyone can do the same stuff equally well, do you not find that boring?
  13. Yep, I am fine with WS/BS being in game, they tie in all the possible stats you would conceivably use into one place. More to the point, I like the fact this game handles it differently than other games, we do not need some massive melange of systems where the only difference in the games is the back ground / lore of a given system.
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