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CrookedWookie

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  1. Like
    CrookedWookie reacted to Sithborg in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    And the very, very important part that is being missed is, at least with the Spanish Nationals, is that while 4 TLTs won, they did not dominate the top squads. I think there was only one other in the top squads. That is hardly indication that there is a problem. 
     
    And once the meta adapts (seriously, just look at the huge thread on what you can do against them), I would hope the complaints will die down. 
  2. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from Celes in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    You could also ask why some people are attacking them, so fanatically, in spite of the fact the designers themselves, who, you know, designed them, don't think they're too overpowered - and are keeping an eye on them just in case they are - and will take action if they discover an issue.
    Doesn't make much sense to me. 

  3. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I think two very serious things that people should take away from this are:
     
    1.  Don't blame the playtesters - especially right there in the subject line.  Seriously, just don't.  Not only do (most of) you not know the process, but it's making rather huge assumptions that
    A. testers agree on everything (because the community clearly does, right?
    B. that they are always listened to, and
    C. changes don't occasionally get made for reasons even the testers involved aren't always privy to.  

    2.  In case people aren't paying attention, every single wave ever has produced ships/lists that an awful lot of people screamed were OP, and an awful lot of people complained were boring to fly as/against, or both.  And inevitably what happens is that either counters come out for it, lists adapt to better balance against it, people realize over time a lot of it was so much sound and fury, or a combination of all of those things.
     
    Does nobody remember when the Defender got announced?  Seriously?  I do.  Talk about TEH SKY IZ FALLING.  A white K-turn?  Game over, man.  Game over - and the Empire just won.  GGWP.  Anyone want to buy my collection, only $400?  No, I don't want to break it up and sell it individually - YES, I know I could sell it for more if I broke it up, I don't want to DO that, WHY are we still arguing about this - you have no intention of buying it from me either way.

    Where was I?

    Oh yeah, lot of OP, tournament-winning Defender builds running rampant over everybody, is there?  No?  Nobody?  Everyone looked at it, tried it, collectively went "eh, it's kind of pricey, actually," and left it mostly sitting in storage and went to go find some OTHER ship to go complain about, instead.  I start to think sometimes that much of the community must be fans of Fox News, because the lack of pattern recognition is occasionally astounding.    

    Look, if it's boring to fly as, don't fly it.  If it's boring to fly against, well, "if you're bored then you're boring," as someone once said.  It's strong - I've heard it described by someone whose opinion I trust as "meta-defining," in fact.  But it is the nature of the meta to be defined and redefined for as long as it exists, so something has to be redefining it at any given moment.  

    This may be its moment in the sun.  Only time will tell whether it stays there.  If it does, past experience should tell us that there's some ship, or upgrade waiting in the wings to ruin its day and give it a reality check of its own.  
  4. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from KryatDragon in Not happy about buying new damage deck/core set!   
    This Discussion:




     
     
  5. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from Punning Pundit in Why does the ghost have torpedoes?   
    I find it interesting that all of this "why does the Ghost come with this, when it clearly doesn't have that" discussion seems to largely ignore the fact there are TWO ships in that expansion pack, and you can only see the upgrade bar for ONE of them.
  6. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I think two very serious things that people should take away from this are:
     
    1.  Don't blame the playtesters - especially right there in the subject line.  Seriously, just don't.  Not only do (most of) you not know the process, but it's making rather huge assumptions that
    A. testers agree on everything (because the community clearly does, right?
    B. that they are always listened to, and
    C. changes don't occasionally get made for reasons even the testers involved aren't always privy to.  

    2.  In case people aren't paying attention, every single wave ever has produced ships/lists that an awful lot of people screamed were OP, and an awful lot of people complained were boring to fly as/against, or both.  And inevitably what happens is that either counters come out for it, lists adapt to better balance against it, people realize over time a lot of it was so much sound and fury, or a combination of all of those things.
     
    Does nobody remember when the Defender got announced?  Seriously?  I do.  Talk about TEH SKY IZ FALLING.  A white K-turn?  Game over, man.  Game over - and the Empire just won.  GGWP.  Anyone want to buy my collection, only $400?  No, I don't want to break it up and sell it individually - YES, I know I could sell it for more if I broke it up, I don't want to DO that, WHY are we still arguing about this - you have no intention of buying it from me either way.

    Where was I?

    Oh yeah, lot of OP, tournament-winning Defender builds running rampant over everybody, is there?  No?  Nobody?  Everyone looked at it, tried it, collectively went "eh, it's kind of pricey, actually," and left it mostly sitting in storage and went to go find some OTHER ship to go complain about, instead.  I start to think sometimes that much of the community must be fans of Fox News, because the lack of pattern recognition is occasionally astounding.    

    Look, if it's boring to fly as, don't fly it.  If it's boring to fly against, well, "if you're bored then you're boring," as someone once said.  It's strong - I've heard it described by someone whose opinion I trust as "meta-defining," in fact.  But it is the nature of the meta to be defined and redefined for as long as it exists, so something has to be redefining it at any given moment.  

    This may be its moment in the sun.  Only time will tell whether it stays there.  If it does, past experience should tell us that there's some ship, or upgrade waiting in the wings to ruin its day and give it a reality check of its own.  
  7. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from Celes in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    You could also ask why some people are attacking them, so fanatically, in spite of the fact the designers themselves, who, you know, designed them, don't think they're too overpowered - and are keeping an eye on them just in case they are - and will take action if they discover an issue.
    Doesn't make much sense to me. 

  8. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I think two very serious things that people should take away from this are:
     
    1.  Don't blame the playtesters - especially right there in the subject line.  Seriously, just don't.  Not only do (most of) you not know the process, but it's making rather huge assumptions that
    A. testers agree on everything (because the community clearly does, right?
    B. that they are always listened to, and
    C. changes don't occasionally get made for reasons even the testers involved aren't always privy to.  

    2.  In case people aren't paying attention, every single wave ever has produced ships/lists that an awful lot of people screamed were OP, and an awful lot of people complained were boring to fly as/against, or both.  And inevitably what happens is that either counters come out for it, lists adapt to better balance against it, people realize over time a lot of it was so much sound and fury, or a combination of all of those things.
     
    Does nobody remember when the Defender got announced?  Seriously?  I do.  Talk about TEH SKY IZ FALLING.  A white K-turn?  Game over, man.  Game over - and the Empire just won.  GGWP.  Anyone want to buy my collection, only $400?  No, I don't want to break it up and sell it individually - YES, I know I could sell it for more if I broke it up, I don't want to DO that, WHY are we still arguing about this - you have no intention of buying it from me either way.

    Where was I?

    Oh yeah, lot of OP, tournament-winning Defender builds running rampant over everybody, is there?  No?  Nobody?  Everyone looked at it, tried it, collectively went "eh, it's kind of pricey, actually," and left it mostly sitting in storage and went to go find some OTHER ship to go complain about, instead.  I start to think sometimes that much of the community must be fans of Fox News, because the lack of pattern recognition is occasionally astounding.    

    Look, if it's boring to fly as, don't fly it.  If it's boring to fly against, well, "if you're bored then you're boring," as someone once said.  It's strong - I've heard it described by someone whose opinion I trust as "meta-defining," in fact.  But it is the nature of the meta to be defined and redefined for as long as it exists, so something has to be redefining it at any given moment.  

    This may be its moment in the sun.  Only time will tell whether it stays there.  If it does, past experience should tell us that there's some ship, or upgrade waiting in the wings to ruin its day and give it a reality check of its own.  
  9. Like
    CrookedWookie reacted to Biophysical in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    This, absolutely this.  It was mentioned a few times in the 20+ page "dealing with TLTs" thread that Vorpal Sword started, but it always bears repeating at times like this.  Furthermore, a well rounded list can kind of do both.  If it has some decent jousters with better range control than the TLTs (which might only mean dials that are a little better) as well as a fast Arc Dodger, it could literally threaten to both thread the needle to make the Arc Dodger safe while at the same time concentrate on one side of the formation to limit return shots.  It's like the combination of Cavalry and Artillery to a Napoleonic infantry square.  Break formation and the Cavalry cut you to pieces, hold the square, and the Artillery blast you apart.  In this case hold formation and the Arc Dodger gets free shots, and loosen the formation and the jousters get 2v1 shots on you.  If the non-TLT squad has a higher PS (likely), then deploying afterward will be a huge advantage as well.  
  10. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I think two very serious things that people should take away from this are:
     
    1.  Don't blame the playtesters - especially right there in the subject line.  Seriously, just don't.  Not only do (most of) you not know the process, but it's making rather huge assumptions that
    A. testers agree on everything (because the community clearly does, right?
    B. that they are always listened to, and
    C. changes don't occasionally get made for reasons even the testers involved aren't always privy to.  

    2.  In case people aren't paying attention, every single wave ever has produced ships/lists that an awful lot of people screamed were OP, and an awful lot of people complained were boring to fly as/against, or both.  And inevitably what happens is that either counters come out for it, lists adapt to better balance against it, people realize over time a lot of it was so much sound and fury, or a combination of all of those things.
     
    Does nobody remember when the Defender got announced?  Seriously?  I do.  Talk about TEH SKY IZ FALLING.  A white K-turn?  Game over, man.  Game over - and the Empire just won.  GGWP.  Anyone want to buy my collection, only $400?  No, I don't want to break it up and sell it individually - YES, I know I could sell it for more if I broke it up, I don't want to DO that, WHY are we still arguing about this - you have no intention of buying it from me either way.

    Where was I?

    Oh yeah, lot of OP, tournament-winning Defender builds running rampant over everybody, is there?  No?  Nobody?  Everyone looked at it, tried it, collectively went "eh, it's kind of pricey, actually," and left it mostly sitting in storage and went to go find some OTHER ship to go complain about, instead.  I start to think sometimes that much of the community must be fans of Fox News, because the lack of pattern recognition is occasionally astounding.    

    Look, if it's boring to fly as, don't fly it.  If it's boring to fly against, well, "if you're bored then you're boring," as someone once said.  It's strong - I've heard it described by someone whose opinion I trust as "meta-defining," in fact.  But it is the nature of the meta to be defined and redefined for as long as it exists, so something has to be redefining it at any given moment.  

    This may be its moment in the sun.  Only time will tell whether it stays there.  If it does, past experience should tell us that there's some ship, or upgrade waiting in the wings to ruin its day and give it a reality check of its own.  
  11. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from Biophysical in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I actually have a couple of lists very similar to that - I think I did both a version that is Blues with Greys, and one that's Daggers with Golds, depending on what upgrades and PS I was looking for.  You still get enough TLT to do the TLT thing, but also have a couple ships with some more (potential) damage output, especially versus enemy ships carrying TLT, that can get in close and scrap with them.
    Another thing I've found with some of my Dash lists - particularly with a couple Rookies, or Vrill with HLC, is that where most people want to counter TLT by rushing in close, the right build can survive by doing the opposite.  Stay at range 3 and trade - but try and control distance to where you're at range 3 to one, maybe two, of the TLT and not the entire pack.   Hit them with HLC or something and try to hammer one of them down early.
    What I think a lot of people overlook is that the range equation works both ways - yes: there is a donut at range 1 that can be exploited to avoid one or two of them, at least, shooting you every turn.  But there is also a very good chance that if you have the firepower to hang back at Range 3, there's a very good chance that if you are able to manipulate that distance carefully you can be just outside range 3 to several of them, as well.  
     
  12. Like
    CrookedWookie reacted to Jetfire in Just noticed something about Wired...   
    It will be like the Imperial Shuttle and Adv Sensors.  Many more reprints to come eventually.
  13. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I think two very serious things that people should take away from this are:
     
    1.  Don't blame the playtesters - especially right there in the subject line.  Seriously, just don't.  Not only do (most of) you not know the process, but it's making rather huge assumptions that
    A. testers agree on everything (because the community clearly does, right?
    B. that they are always listened to, and
    C. changes don't occasionally get made for reasons even the testers involved aren't always privy to.  

    2.  In case people aren't paying attention, every single wave ever has produced ships/lists that an awful lot of people screamed were OP, and an awful lot of people complained were boring to fly as/against, or both.  And inevitably what happens is that either counters come out for it, lists adapt to better balance against it, people realize over time a lot of it was so much sound and fury, or a combination of all of those things.
     
    Does nobody remember when the Defender got announced?  Seriously?  I do.  Talk about TEH SKY IZ FALLING.  A white K-turn?  Game over, man.  Game over - and the Empire just won.  GGWP.  Anyone want to buy my collection, only $400?  No, I don't want to break it up and sell it individually - YES, I know I could sell it for more if I broke it up, I don't want to DO that, WHY are we still arguing about this - you have no intention of buying it from me either way.

    Where was I?

    Oh yeah, lot of OP, tournament-winning Defender builds running rampant over everybody, is there?  No?  Nobody?  Everyone looked at it, tried it, collectively went "eh, it's kind of pricey, actually," and left it mostly sitting in storage and went to go find some OTHER ship to go complain about, instead.  I start to think sometimes that much of the community must be fans of Fox News, because the lack of pattern recognition is occasionally astounding.    

    Look, if it's boring to fly as, don't fly it.  If it's boring to fly against, well, "if you're bored then you're boring," as someone once said.  It's strong - I've heard it described by someone whose opinion I trust as "meta-defining," in fact.  But it is the nature of the meta to be defined and redefined for as long as it exists, so something has to be redefining it at any given moment.  

    This may be its moment in the sun.  Only time will tell whether it stays there.  If it does, past experience should tell us that there's some ship, or upgrade waiting in the wings to ruin its day and give it a reality check of its own.  
  14. Like
    CrookedWookie reacted to Celes in Scum and Villainy Episode 18: Alex Davy Interview   
    See, that's how you tackle the TLT discussion in a reasonable way:
    - Does he think TLT is overpowered? No.
    - Does he admit he's been wrong before? Yes.
    - Are they willing to tackle the situation if TLTs prove to be too good? Yes.
    - Does he mention player skill on either side of the argument anywhere? No.
     
    Very mature and objective stance if you ask me.
  15. Like
  16. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I think two very serious things that people should take away from this are:
     
    1.  Don't blame the playtesters - especially right there in the subject line.  Seriously, just don't.  Not only do (most of) you not know the process, but it's making rather huge assumptions that
    A. testers agree on everything (because the community clearly does, right?
    B. that they are always listened to, and
    C. changes don't occasionally get made for reasons even the testers involved aren't always privy to.  

    2.  In case people aren't paying attention, every single wave ever has produced ships/lists that an awful lot of people screamed were OP, and an awful lot of people complained were boring to fly as/against, or both.  And inevitably what happens is that either counters come out for it, lists adapt to better balance against it, people realize over time a lot of it was so much sound and fury, or a combination of all of those things.
     
    Does nobody remember when the Defender got announced?  Seriously?  I do.  Talk about TEH SKY IZ FALLING.  A white K-turn?  Game over, man.  Game over - and the Empire just won.  GGWP.  Anyone want to buy my collection, only $400?  No, I don't want to break it up and sell it individually - YES, I know I could sell it for more if I broke it up, I don't want to DO that, WHY are we still arguing about this - you have no intention of buying it from me either way.

    Where was I?

    Oh yeah, lot of OP, tournament-winning Defender builds running rampant over everybody, is there?  No?  Nobody?  Everyone looked at it, tried it, collectively went "eh, it's kind of pricey, actually," and left it mostly sitting in storage and went to go find some OTHER ship to go complain about, instead.  I start to think sometimes that much of the community must be fans of Fox News, because the lack of pattern recognition is occasionally astounding.    

    Look, if it's boring to fly as, don't fly it.  If it's boring to fly against, well, "if you're bored then you're boring," as someone once said.  It's strong - I've heard it described by someone whose opinion I trust as "meta-defining," in fact.  But it is the nature of the meta to be defined and redefined for as long as it exists, so something has to be redefining it at any given moment.  

    This may be its moment in the sun.  Only time will tell whether it stays there.  If it does, past experience should tell us that there's some ship, or upgrade waiting in the wings to ruin its day and give it a reality check of its own.  
  17. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I think two very serious things that people should take away from this are:
     
    1.  Don't blame the playtesters - especially right there in the subject line.  Seriously, just don't.  Not only do (most of) you not know the process, but it's making rather huge assumptions that
    A. testers agree on everything (because the community clearly does, right?
    B. that they are always listened to, and
    C. changes don't occasionally get made for reasons even the testers involved aren't always privy to.  

    2.  In case people aren't paying attention, every single wave ever has produced ships/lists that an awful lot of people screamed were OP, and an awful lot of people complained were boring to fly as/against, or both.  And inevitably what happens is that either counters come out for it, lists adapt to better balance against it, people realize over time a lot of it was so much sound and fury, or a combination of all of those things.
     
    Does nobody remember when the Defender got announced?  Seriously?  I do.  Talk about TEH SKY IZ FALLING.  A white K-turn?  Game over, man.  Game over - and the Empire just won.  GGWP.  Anyone want to buy my collection, only $400?  No, I don't want to break it up and sell it individually - YES, I know I could sell it for more if I broke it up, I don't want to DO that, WHY are we still arguing about this - you have no intention of buying it from me either way.

    Where was I?

    Oh yeah, lot of OP, tournament-winning Defender builds running rampant over everybody, is there?  No?  Nobody?  Everyone looked at it, tried it, collectively went "eh, it's kind of pricey, actually," and left it mostly sitting in storage and went to go find some OTHER ship to go complain about, instead.  I start to think sometimes that much of the community must be fans of Fox News, because the lack of pattern recognition is occasionally astounding.    

    Look, if it's boring to fly as, don't fly it.  If it's boring to fly against, well, "if you're bored then you're boring," as someone once said.  It's strong - I've heard it described by someone whose opinion I trust as "meta-defining," in fact.  But it is the nature of the meta to be defined and redefined for as long as it exists, so something has to be redefining it at any given moment.  

    This may be its moment in the sun.  Only time will tell whether it stays there.  If it does, past experience should tell us that there's some ship, or upgrade waiting in the wings to ruin its day and give it a reality check of its own.  
  18. Like
    CrookedWookie reacted to Rodafowa in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    Awesome post. I think the third thing people should take away from this is: "The R1 doughnut hole is an exploitable and serious weakness of massed TLT lists" does not mean "LOL JUST GO TO R1 AND NONE OF THE TLTs WILL BE ABLE TO SHOOT AT YOU EVAAAAAAR" or "TLT spam isn't a strong list".
  19. Like
    CrookedWookie reacted to DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I want to add that In epic Grays escorted with Daggers will be a thing when I go Rebel. Greys with TLT(and maybe one autoblaster, probably not) Daggers with flachette or HLC or Mangler - depends on my mood, likely flechette as i'd want a GR75 loaded for jamming/slicing.
  20. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I think two very serious things that people should take away from this are:
     
    1.  Don't blame the playtesters - especially right there in the subject line.  Seriously, just don't.  Not only do (most of) you not know the process, but it's making rather huge assumptions that
    A. testers agree on everything (because the community clearly does, right?
    B. that they are always listened to, and
    C. changes don't occasionally get made for reasons even the testers involved aren't always privy to.  

    2.  In case people aren't paying attention, every single wave ever has produced ships/lists that an awful lot of people screamed were OP, and an awful lot of people complained were boring to fly as/against, or both.  And inevitably what happens is that either counters come out for it, lists adapt to better balance against it, people realize over time a lot of it was so much sound and fury, or a combination of all of those things.
     
    Does nobody remember when the Defender got announced?  Seriously?  I do.  Talk about TEH SKY IZ FALLING.  A white K-turn?  Game over, man.  Game over - and the Empire just won.  GGWP.  Anyone want to buy my collection, only $400?  No, I don't want to break it up and sell it individually - YES, I know I could sell it for more if I broke it up, I don't want to DO that, WHY are we still arguing about this - you have no intention of buying it from me either way.

    Where was I?

    Oh yeah, lot of OP, tournament-winning Defender builds running rampant over everybody, is there?  No?  Nobody?  Everyone looked at it, tried it, collectively went "eh, it's kind of pricey, actually," and left it mostly sitting in storage and went to go find some OTHER ship to go complain about, instead.  I start to think sometimes that much of the community must be fans of Fox News, because the lack of pattern recognition is occasionally astounding.    

    Look, if it's boring to fly as, don't fly it.  If it's boring to fly against, well, "if you're bored then you're boring," as someone once said.  It's strong - I've heard it described by someone whose opinion I trust as "meta-defining," in fact.  But it is the nature of the meta to be defined and redefined for as long as it exists, so something has to be redefining it at any given moment.  

    This may be its moment in the sun.  Only time will tell whether it stays there.  If it does, past experience should tell us that there's some ship, or upgrade waiting in the wings to ruin its day and give it a reality check of its own.  
  21. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I think two very serious things that people should take away from this are:
     
    1.  Don't blame the playtesters - especially right there in the subject line.  Seriously, just don't.  Not only do (most of) you not know the process, but it's making rather huge assumptions that
    A. testers agree on everything (because the community clearly does, right?
    B. that they are always listened to, and
    C. changes don't occasionally get made for reasons even the testers involved aren't always privy to.  

    2.  In case people aren't paying attention, every single wave ever has produced ships/lists that an awful lot of people screamed were OP, and an awful lot of people complained were boring to fly as/against, or both.  And inevitably what happens is that either counters come out for it, lists adapt to better balance against it, people realize over time a lot of it was so much sound and fury, or a combination of all of those things.
     
    Does nobody remember when the Defender got announced?  Seriously?  I do.  Talk about TEH SKY IZ FALLING.  A white K-turn?  Game over, man.  Game over - and the Empire just won.  GGWP.  Anyone want to buy my collection, only $400?  No, I don't want to break it up and sell it individually - YES, I know I could sell it for more if I broke it up, I don't want to DO that, WHY are we still arguing about this - you have no intention of buying it from me either way.

    Where was I?

    Oh yeah, lot of OP, tournament-winning Defender builds running rampant over everybody, is there?  No?  Nobody?  Everyone looked at it, tried it, collectively went "eh, it's kind of pricey, actually," and left it mostly sitting in storage and went to go find some OTHER ship to go complain about, instead.  I start to think sometimes that much of the community must be fans of Fox News, because the lack of pattern recognition is occasionally astounding.    

    Look, if it's boring to fly as, don't fly it.  If it's boring to fly against, well, "if you're bored then you're boring," as someone once said.  It's strong - I've heard it described by someone whose opinion I trust as "meta-defining," in fact.  But it is the nature of the meta to be defined and redefined for as long as it exists, so something has to be redefining it at any given moment.  

    This may be its moment in the sun.  Only time will tell whether it stays there.  If it does, past experience should tell us that there's some ship, or upgrade waiting in the wings to ruin its day and give it a reality check of its own.  
  22. Like
    CrookedWookie reacted to DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    ^^ voice of reason.
  23. Like
    CrookedWookie got a reaction from DariusAPB in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I think two very serious things that people should take away from this are:
     
    1.  Don't blame the playtesters - especially right there in the subject line.  Seriously, just don't.  Not only do (most of) you not know the process, but it's making rather huge assumptions that
    A. testers agree on everything (because the community clearly does, right?
    B. that they are always listened to, and
    C. changes don't occasionally get made for reasons even the testers involved aren't always privy to.  

    2.  In case people aren't paying attention, every single wave ever has produced ships/lists that an awful lot of people screamed were OP, and an awful lot of people complained were boring to fly as/against, or both.  And inevitably what happens is that either counters come out for it, lists adapt to better balance against it, people realize over time a lot of it was so much sound and fury, or a combination of all of those things.
     
    Does nobody remember when the Defender got announced?  Seriously?  I do.  Talk about TEH SKY IZ FALLING.  A white K-turn?  Game over, man.  Game over - and the Empire just won.  GGWP.  Anyone want to buy my collection, only $400?  No, I don't want to break it up and sell it individually - YES, I know I could sell it for more if I broke it up, I don't want to DO that, WHY are we still arguing about this - you have no intention of buying it from me either way.

    Where was I?

    Oh yeah, lot of OP, tournament-winning Defender builds running rampant over everybody, is there?  No?  Nobody?  Everyone looked at it, tried it, collectively went "eh, it's kind of pricey, actually," and left it mostly sitting in storage and went to go find some OTHER ship to go complain about, instead.  I start to think sometimes that much of the community must be fans of Fox News, because the lack of pattern recognition is occasionally astounding.    

    Look, if it's boring to fly as, don't fly it.  If it's boring to fly against, well, "if you're bored then you're boring," as someone once said.  It's strong - I've heard it described by someone whose opinion I trust as "meta-defining," in fact.  But it is the nature of the meta to be defined and redefined for as long as it exists, so something has to be redefining it at any given moment.  

    This may be its moment in the sun.  Only time will tell whether it stays there.  If it does, past experience should tell us that there's some ship, or upgrade waiting in the wings to ruin its day and give it a reality check of its own.  
  24. Like
    CrookedWookie reacted to Rocmistro in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    An Anecdote Regarding: Boring.
    By: Rocmistro
    from his best-selling Autobiography: Flying Casual; the Art of the X
     
    "I remember one of my first public games at my FLGS.  It was probably my 4th or 5th game all around, and I had only been into the game for about a week or two. I'd say it was somewhere right before Wave 4 hit.  I was on a Tie Interceptor craze, and my list was 4x Royal Guard Pilots, all with push the limit.  I don't remember what my opponent had, but I do know it was all PS 6 or below, and I don't think he had any turrets.
     
    "Needless to say, I arc-dodged and blew the hell out of him. I don't think I lost a single ship, I don't even remember taking any damage to be honest with you."
     
    "At the time, I thought. "Whoa. This is the most powerful ship list in X Wing. It cannot be beaten. It's undefeatable."
     
    In reality, it was just a case of the ultimate Scissors meets the ultimate Paper.  He put all his eggs in one basket, and so did I. I just had the better basket.  I could tell, by the end of the game, he was very frustrated, and not having a good time. Maybe he was even bored, knowing there was nothing that he could really do that would make a difference.  Not a fun game for him, I imagine.  Was this FFG's fault?  Bad ship design? Bad game design? Had I truly found the ultimate power build? Hardly."
     
    "What defines a "boring" list? Is it a list that takes little thought for you to use? Too much thought for you opponent to fly against?  I'm not really sure. What I do know, a lesson I have learned well from 40k / Fantasy, is that Eggs-in-1-basket lists will only take you so far. Once you meat the hard counter, you're done.  Everyone will always be tempted to build a list this way....a list with one small but absolute Achilles' Heel, hoping they don't meet up with Paris's arrow.  It can be done with almost every type of unit, every type of game, every type of ship, model, or list, to a greater or lesser extent. If it's any consolation, I have found the best players will learn to make all-comers list, and they will learn every possible matchup; when to engage, when to disengage, when to attack, when to feint.   It's the only way to get really good.  Flying in circles with 360 will never make you a good pilot. Ever. That's the price of boring ships."
  25. Like
    CrookedWookie reacted to ObiWonka in 4y tlt - how did this list make it through PTing?   
    I did leave politics out of it. I mentioned Donald Trump.
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