You're not alone. I have 4... might even be comfortable with 8 when this is all said and done.

IT WAS ME. Fist bump! I've been saying it since right after the Rebel huge ships were announced. I'm glad there were a couple of us, at least. I'm excited it has some commonality with the Vigil and Victory-II which were the two highest on my list. And I knew the Vigil wasn't practical, so I like how this turned out. The other one I championed for was the IPV-1: perfect size, but admittedly not as iconic. Anyway. Suck it, naysayers!

No they were both announced in the Assemble the Fleet article. I think they were actually announced in the panel at GenCon before the article came out.

Yep, I was wrong. It still seems to be smaller than the CR-90, but I'm anxious to see how they stack up in real life. And still curious to know if there will be another huge. If this is the answer to the CR-90, then maybe the Gozanti, being smaller, might still show up as a counter to the GR-75.

So it looks like it falls between the CR90 and the GR75 in size. Doesn't seem to have a fore and aft section, either. I wonder if this is the counter to both Rebel craft or if we'll see another Imperial huge soon? (I wonder because I need to know if I'm buying two or not)

I thought so too! As I was looking at them I was like "is that Ozzel?" why him? he didnt seem to have any more of a role in the films than to provide Piett a battlefeild promotion.... He is as clumsy as he is stupid.

Nailed it: Not the first time I posited FFG could make up their own stuff, either. I feel vindicated now. Also I like that we have an amalgam of ideas; the Raider ends up being a Skinny Vigil or Sort-Of-Victory-II.

Alright, JBR7. What do you think of the Skinny Vigil?

I called it. Just sayin'.

Just as a matter of record I'm somewhere between "having read JANES" and "serving pilot". Growing up in a household with one serviceman who can speak expertly to the A-10's CAS role, and one contractor having worked extensively on 4th-gen fighter systems and still can't legally tell me about capabilities (but has told me some pretty neat shít regardless). I've lived and breathed this stuff for three decades. At age 12 I could tell you which engines were used on all active US fighter craft. I knew that regarding the F-16 "this is the Viper—only politicians and reporters call it the Falcon" from conversations with real pilots. I watched A-10 live-fire strafing runs from my backyard, noted tactics, maneuverability, capabilities; whatever they were willing to show. Knew the service ceilings and combat radius of most modern craft still active in the 90s and beyond. So, you know. There's a case to be made for non-pilots possibly having some expertise as well. I won't even pretend to know everything—if it's classified, then I'm in the dark (with one or two possible 1980s-era exceptions). But not everyone is simply barfing up soundbytes from CNN Also, I totally understand not blowing secrets online, although in the case of the J-20 and J-31 it's a moot point. Heh.

Excellent. Don't have Wave 5 yet, but will certainly consider this. Good call.

Also, as much as the F-22 deserves its place at the tippy-top of the food chain, I was IN LOVE with the YF-23 Black Widow, and crushed when it wasn't selected. That was a thing of absolute beauty. (It had better supercruise performance than the YF-22 as well.)

Agreed, we had the F-22 but Uncle Sam said hey this one is cheaper lets go with this piece of crap. One thing I learned in the military new stuff doesn't mean better, it just mean that the government has found a lower bidder. The F-35 wasn't selected over the F-22. They were designed from the ground up with different roles, namely: F-22 as an interceptor/fighter, and F-35 as a multirole export fighter. The F-35 is carrier-capable and the loadout is much more diverse than the F-22, although the payload weight capacity is similar. In theory: F-22 > F-15 F-35 > F-16 The F-35 is hobbled by development issues. As an export fighter for our allies, it could have essentially paid for itself. The blown-out schedules and cost overruns in development are a reality in any industry, although granted, the government is notorious for amplifying the problems (see: red tape). The lowest bidder analogue is technically correct, but there's a greater context to consider: Even the lowest bidder has a certain amount of criteria that must be met in order to be accepted. Even then, engineering challenges are not out of the ordinary. I mean, I could offer the government all four of my TIE Advanced minis for forty bucks and be considered the lowest bidder, but that's not really how it works, you know? Wait and see, I'd say. Military spending cutbacks are gonna have an astromonically larger impact than any issues the F-35 faces.

Do you have a source for the inferiority of the J-31?http://www.ibtimes.com/chinas-new-stealth-fighter-jet-can-take-down-american-counterpart-developer-says-1753916 http://news.usni.org/2014/11/05/u-s-pilots-say-new-chinese-stealth-fighter-become-equal-f-22-f-35 I'm pretty sure the J-31 will surpass the F-35 by the time it's fielded. I cannot back up my statements besides to point to articles - I'm not a pilot. I don't see anything on any nation's horizon that can match the F-22. Although the F-22 isn't invincible, and has lost dogfights: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2009/02/growler-power-ea-18g-boasts-f-/ http://www.wired.com/2007/07/first-f-22-rapt/ http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2014/09/23/when_the_french_shot_down_an_f-22_107455.html Granted I'm not a pilot either, although until there are pilots with combat experience against these Chinese planes in particular, that's a moot point. Right now all anyone can do is take what we learn and compare it to what we already know. I've been a military aircraft fanatic for 30 years. It's one of my primary interests, so I am confident enough in my understanding. The analysis of the airframes suggests neither craft will be particularly stealthy. It's been suggested the radar-absorbant materials are either missing or improperly applied. It's still not certain whether either craft will have AESA radar; if they don't, they will be at a significant disadvantage. They also lack thrust vectoring, the importance of which Kinetic did a great job explaining above. Most critically, it's believed that both J-20 and J-31 were reverse-engineered from known and documented cyber attacks. Notably, the systems that weren't compromised are missing from the Chinese designs. They have allegedly stolen much of Lockheed Martin's work on the F-35, applied that to the design, then cobbled together the rest. That's consistent with what the industry analysts are seeing. But even aside from that, the simple fact that after the F-22 came out, China produced one that looked just like it (or an F-22/Gen-4 mashup), then again with the F-35 (or an F-35/22 mashup). That's not coincidence, man; that's espionage. In any case, like I said earlier in the thread, neither design needs to match the performance of the F-22 or F-35. Even if the new fighters have AESA and skilled pilots (which isn't guaranteed in either case), all they need is to be able to field more of them than their opponent. If they're not hamstrung on supply issues (currently they're depending on Russia to provide surplus MiG-29 engines for the J-31), then they sort of have the upper hand. Spam the enemy with cheap fighters, rinse, repeat. I'm also not an F-35 apologist, while I think they could make a decent thing out of it someday, I'm aware of the myriad development and logistic issues. Time will tell on that one. Further info on FC/J-31: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2014-11-17/chinas-fc-31-fighter-disappoints-first-display http://www.defensenews.com/article/20141115/DEFREG03/311150035/With-J-31-Flight-China-Makes-Statement

My understanding is the intention was always for the F-22 to be US exclusive and the F-35 designed as a plainly less-capable export fighter to recoup some of the costs. Also I understand the current idea is to have several F-35s flying in concert to multiply their effectiveness. That's a good approach in theory, although the incredible expense per fighter and logistical challenge of reliably fielding several per engagement really casts a shadow of doubt. The newly-revealed Chinese knockoff is far inferior even to the F-35, but that's hardly the point. The Chinese can manufacture and deploy cheap fighters en masse in a manner that would quickly overwhelm a defending force of F-35. I have a feeling there will be more programs greenlit to breathe new life into our fourth-gen fighters.

I heard recently that they're delaying the decommissioning again. I know this goes back and forth a lot, but the current environment favors keeping them. There are a lot of factors to consider on both sides. The fleet is not exactly scalable or future-proof, and maintaining it will only get more expensive. But still, nothing does CAS like an A-10. It's a tough call either way, but I know for a fact that the guys on the ground will be relieved for now.

I'm surprised the IPV-1 theory doesn't have more support. It's more Imp-looking than the space dongs, more practical than the Vigil, and the EaW iteration was pretty cool. Granted, I think the Gozanti is likely, but still.

Fair enough, no argument there.

Why not?? What would a clone cost? Ten dollars?

Aside from being "bored" by the idea of starring in VII, I've seen some pretty disparaging quotes by Lawson regarding Wedge's role in the EU. Not unlike Ewan McGregor's (coincidentally, Lawson's nephew) recent rant about SW fans. Personally I think he's neither an idiot nor obligated to the series. Still, sometimes it's disheartening to hear actors talk like that.

I share your concerns for the most part, but I still think it's possible this could be pulled off without being cheesy. I'm sure it would be more involved than just cloning the same character. I imagine that if Serkis were playing an Emperor-like role, it would have, at minimum, distinct iterative differences from the OT Emperor. At any rate, Star Wars is a good vs. evil moral tale at its heart, so frankly it needs an antagonist that isn't too dissimilar from the Emperor, whether it's a clone or not. You can see they already have a Vader-like character with obvious similarities and equally obvious distinctions.

Or a clone. Which is pretty solidly established in EU Legends. I know there are no more obligations for new canon as far as EU Legends is concerned, but I don't think it's given that some ideas won't be reused. That's precisely the reason I'm not that big on EU stories. They all sound like B-movie writing. "They killed the villain! But he had a clone!!!" At least that's my impression of them from afar, granted I have not ready any. EU can definitely be like that at times. I was never a fan of the cloned Emperor stories. Still, if that's what they have planned, and Andy Serkis is the reborn Emperor, I could be willing to negotiate. I think JJ could bring the gravity that's needed for something like this to not be silly.

They flew in a shuttle craft from the federation edge of the neutral zone to Kronos. That's ridiculous. Khan beaming to Kronos from a magic duffelbag on Earth was even worse. Cumberbatch is an acting titan, but I think he was miscast. Even someone approaching the look and bearing of Montalban's original Khan would have been good. The hardest part for me was the design of the Evil Enterprise; totally uninspired. Let's make the bad guy ship an impossibly larger version of the good guy ship. Okay. Make it dark and give it more guns. Okay, that's good. Whatever! I liked both of those movies for the most part and there's reason for hope here. The time travel approach to the reboot sort of eased the pain, helped keep it distinct from Star Trek Prime. The 30 year generation after ROTJ and the fact that JJ is plainly taking a different style approach [and is also a SW fan] should help with SWTFA.

Or a clone. Which is pretty solidly established in EU Legends. I know there are no more obligations for new canon as far as EU Legends is concerned, but I don't think it's given that some ideas won't be reused.

He was creative consultant throughout. That's a really good place for him, actually. Listen to his commentary in the DVD of Episode 4, specifically the Battle of Yavin sequence. He talks about the need to give each craft a specific pitch of engine noise and... you know what? Just watch/listen. Dude knows how to make the small touches _shine_, and that creates some amazing amounts of verisimilitude. But he can't direct for beans. Spot on.