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Everything posted by El_Jairo

  1. Hi there, Just a quick question: is True Grit worth it to be saved without needing to burn Fate Points or are you better off with the Tier 1 defensive skills: Iron Jaw and Die Hard? For context, I boosted Toughness to 51 and WP to 52. We are about to face a Nurgle Marine, so I want to increase the tankiness of my character, as he is the only Melee capable one and has now 15 HP. For more context of the character build see attachment, this is before a 2100 XP increase (of which I have invested 600 xp (from GQ bionic Leg)into Hammer Blow, to be able to put down an enemy once I get in contact). Zariel 3.0 2018-01-25.xls
  2. Okay, I'm back a year later. We are currently operating in a sector of the Emperium that has been cut off because of heavy Warp-storms. We have been sent in with a small fleet of Imperial Navy to hunt down a Heretic that our Inquisitor has a beef with; and hasn't been able to get a hold off. My character hasn't changed much: he gained another 1000xp and has chosen to pick up the +10 Parry (400), Peer (Imperial Navy) (200) because I believe it will enable our mission here I believe and Linguistics (Cell Cant) (200) because we to hide what we are saying while around other people or in combat. So I have regretted not taking any additional wounds, as it is clear now that I am lacking those. I had to burn faith after falling down a ladder rather hard and being set on fire afterwards. By the blessing of the Empurrah I only lost 1 Toughness permenantly in the burning process. Now I come to you with a question regarding survivability. I have noticed that I could upgrade my Toughness to 51 for 750 xp, which is less then buying 4 extra wounds (800xp). As one extra toughness reduces all incoming damage by 1 point, it is on par in damage soaking after 4 hits. The question is of course, will my character survive 4 hits all together ;-). With only 9 wounds, this might prove tricky. As long as no armour piercing is used the damage taken is reduced per hit... This analysis makes me think I need to take extra wounds ASAP. What are the other survival (or melee) things my character needs? Is Catfall worth it, just for the damage reduction of falling? I do realise now that Acrobatics is a cheap skill to me. Although I only have 33 Ag, could it be useful to tumble around in combat? I would like to know your opinion of what talents are worth taking. As general talents that are good to have. I have ruled out Frenzy as I lack any Aptitudes for Battle Rage, although Flagellant does seem nice and has nice synergy. What I am considering now are:Some Sound constitution (2-3, 400-600), Jaded (300), One on One (450) or Crushing Blow (400), Quick Draw and maybe Takedown (200). For more investigative usefulness I want Face in a Crowd (300) but I don't know what else to take, other than boosting Fellowship to 46 (500). Boosting Fellowship seems less expensive that individually boosting the skills, Charm (300), Command (400), Deceive (300) and Inquiry (300). Sure you only gain +5 in general instead of +10 to a specific skill but it is applied to all 4 skills. I would also like to gain Forbidden Lore (Deamons) (150) just because it is fluffy and it comes at a discount. Zariel 2.0 2017-05-20.xls
  3. Nice to see there are still some people keeping the dream alive! 40k Is my favourite setting and roleplay is the core of it for me. Even when I played 40k on table top, it was all about those epic moments when characters would challenge each-other. Forging the narrative. And power gaming ;-)
  4. Have you finished version 1.9 yet? I love the work you put in this so far.
  5. I don't recall anything that says you cannot fire out of close combat. I'd be inclined to allow it but with a -20 penalty due to the melee confusion and not being stabbed as you said. This would only be limited to pistols though as you are still considered to be engaged in melee with the enemy combatant. I don't see any way you could bring your lasgun around and fire on a different target if someone's swinging an axe at your head. I think the passage covering this was in the 1st edition DH rulebook but was never included in the second edition of the rules. It's consistent with the table top game rules, which FFG often uses as inspiration for their RPGs. I'll check when I have access to the hard copy of the rules at home. I'll double check later when I get home. First edition did explain this, but I do not remember if 2.0 did or not. I can safely say though, that all the RP follow that rule set (rogue trader, Only war, Black Crusade), so its a safe bet. If a player really wanted to shoot outside of their melee combat, I'd allow it, but grant whoever they are engaged with an easy +30 free attack action.This ruling reminds me of DnD rules on shooting out of melee and it triggering a "free strike". It does seem cool to apply this but I personally feel that it can create a new inconsistency of actions, much like overwatch does. Normally you can make one attack per turn, it can be a Swift or even Lightning attack that inflicts multiple hits but you can't attack multiple times, unless with special talents: Devastating Assault comes to mind. So basically what I am saying is that when you allow ranged attacks from melee, but they trigger a free attack, this leads to the character making the free attack to be able to make two attacks that turn. It does not seem wrong at first but imagine the theoretical situation that he is engaging multiple targets and they all decide to shoot out of melee, he would get to make an absurd amount of attacks. That and the fact that you were never able to shoot out melee in 40k TT makes me want to rule that. I don't like rules that break the one attack per turn, without any talents being needed. Just my 2 cents.
  6. Yeah, I believe that the build around Devestating Assault works as long as you don't face more than one opponent. I tried using it but I didn't realise that you have to "all in". Like Venkelos suggested, you still need to have a ranged option as well. For when the enemies are outnumbering you. Combat Master will take away their bonuses but they can still hit you. I have been dependent on good armor and found out the hard way : one good damage roll and you might be facing critical damage. So surely include Hardy and True Grit and a ton of hitpoints ;-) To counter a blob of enemies, I have picked Whirlwind of Death. I prefer the safety of a re-roll and chose Blademaster for it. Even if you you get your chance to hit high up, you will still be able to miss that crucial attack. I do like your idea for a build but I wouldn't ignore reactions completely. Parry makes good use of the high WS you want anyway to hit reliable. Being a one-trick-pony makes your character rather easy to counter and then you have no alternative. I do applaud you for coming up with this idea, it needs just a little refinement.
  7. Ok, so if I feel like 11 is a holy number for wounds, I should basically go for it. I think I have a basic good build. I only 'need' a good quality shield and parry +10 and the rest is less of importance for combat effectiveness. Sure True Grit and T at 50 are very effective too but quite expensive: True Grit at 600xp and T 52 for 750xp. Together a whopping 1350 xp. I guess I rather pick 2x sound constitution for 400xp, get parry +10 for another 400xp and have about 500xp to play around with peer or some further skills boosts. As I'm out of cheap characteristic boosts, I rather focus on some essential talents and skills first. Then I should prioritise WS if I get into melee a lot and T if I don't because it makes me survive longer to get into melee BTW, is S worth investing in? I feel as a characteristic it is a little undervalued. Sure as melee fighter it adds (some) damage and I am more prone to being grappled, so I shouldn't completely disregard it. But since I have a bionic left arm, I might as well try to get our Ad Mech boy to fix a good quality one for a S boost, right? And this would also increase the damage if I wield my chainsword with it, right? I feel my character now will learn more about the politic ways as in the Inquisition it isn't possible to simply kill the enemy of the God-Emperor. Apparently you have to take into account the opinions of all stakeholders and not only what Imperial Creed says about a subject. Ad Mech, Noble Families (corrupt or not), Administratum and what not for stupid organisations who don't care as much for living by the God-Emperor's word. lol The secret ambition of my character is to become a Saint by spending his life in servitude of the Emperor (and KILLING FILTHY HERETICS). Sadly there are too many cool talents I want to pick, like Purity of Hatred, Deny the Witch (just the name), Jaded (just because), Crushing Blow (yay for more damage!) and hatred for all enemies of the God-Emperor (but I think I will concentrate on 'just' the heretics as I can role-play that about anything is heresy )
  8. @Alox many thanks for your feedback. Funny that you mention counter attack. I used to have that talent because I liked the fact that you can gain an attack out of the normal sequence. Yet, this is rather uncertain in getting a hit at - 20 WS, sure you get the +10 for standard attack but you need to make a successful parry to begin with. So that is why I dropped it in favour of more reliability in Swift attack combined with Blademaster. You are right about the cost attached to it but perception is a very important characteristic stat anyway. So I don't consider it a complete investment towards inescapable attack. The point about Combat Master and Whirlwind of Death is valid. These are pretty situational and I haven't encountered a situation when this would be important, yet. From background perspective, this does seem to fit and I like to play his personality as aggressive. Being a priest and having the divination of "violence solves anything" But I like the idea of taking in account all the costs for each talent, together with a score for effect, situation and fluff fit. I might be able to math-hammer the priorities Only thing I find difficult to get a grip on is how many wounds is reasonably safe?
  9. Okay, I never really checked the actual weight of a real weapon and it does seem that those of the 40k universe following FF is a little too much rounded up. If a trained human needs two hands to wield a 2-3 kg Zweihänder than for sure making a chainsword 6kg and one-handed is a little over the top. So yeah that Exterminator might not need to weigh 1kg but I honestly don't see it easily fitted into the hilt of any melee weapon, it could be and extension of it. Because basically, the hilt is is an extension of the blade as those two need to be one for structural stability. So yeah, for a warhammer, this can be done, as it isn't particularly known for it's balance but for blades, which are used to parry, I do think the balancing of the blade is key. Anyway this is a future fantasy setting, so I shouldn't be focussing too much on realism but my question is more oriented on the wording in the rules. "...Rather than firing the weapon as normal, the wielder may discharge the exterminator cartridge as a Half Action, ..." As I do agree that is is an awesome cool sight to be spewing fire out of your warhammer or chainsword. I can't imagine how I would 'fire' my chainsword as normal ;-)
  10. I followed this debate for too long not to give my 2 cents. I would nerf overwatch as it breaks the game mechanics in a way that is over the top. A round should typically take about 6 seconds in which all characters perform their action simultaneously. This isn't simple to put realistically into rules without simplifications and abstraction. I have verified the 6 seconds with running, it would take an AG Bonus of 10 to reach the 100m in 10s but running doesn't take into account that you are already running or just starting to run. Sure a good simplification but maybe not necessary as you could simply get a +50% bonus if you where already running last round. This would mean for an above average human ( AGB 3) that they would run at 16,2 km/h which is pretty fast indeed if you take into account that you are armoured and carrying weapons around. RAW this would be only 10,8 km/h. But I digress. So every character acts in initiative order, in order to be able to roll and apply the results of each action. Overwatch lets your break out of this initiative order to take an action each team a condition is met. My problem with the RAW is that it doesn't limit the number of attacks, so a gun with a large clip size will totally rule anything and there is no limit on the "kill zone" but a 45° arc. It is humanly impossible to keep watch over the full length of such an arc, as it will reach as far as the eye goes. So my house-rule would be the following: you can take up to two times a standard attack , semi- or full-auto attack. Each enemy can only trigger the condition once per half action and twice per full action. Your declare a kill zone, which comprises an 45° arc and you define a condition: "I see an enemy in my KZ", "I see an enemy move out of cover", "I see an enemy take aim for a shot",... You chose the type of your attack. You will need to be aware (and if needed make an appropriate awareness test) of when your condition is met to have your attack triggered. If these conditions are met, you my chose to make your chosen attack action. There is a focus area in your kill-zone, defined by a declared distance + and - ±15m, which can be larger the further away the distance is. Outside this area of your character will get a penalty of -10 if he wishes to shoot at a target within 15m of the focus area and -20 within 30m of the area. The focus area of your overwatch will change to the area on which you took your shot. If you wish to shoot a target further than 30m outside the Focus Area, you loose one half action and thus only has one attack during his overwatch. Any reaction action will break the overwatch. So key to me are: your focus vision and aim is limited, your shots are limited to one bonus and you may choose not to take the overwatch shot. To avoid being forced to take a bad shot or shoot at a unimportant target. Sure this seems a lot more rules but it feels a lot more intuitive and is still manageable. I put in the number of 15m as it would be the typical distance a humanoid should be able to cover in one round. This is an estimation and mainly to make the point that the focus area is limited. PS: I've read multiple in this thread that snipers should be overpowered. This is true in my house-rule as I believe that the main advantage of a sniper is range. They can take shots well over 400m without being easily spot by vision. Take into how long it takes for a human to close the gap (± 17 turns) and the sniper should be able to get 34 shots (forgetting clip size) in before people are getting in the 100m range (at standard human running speed). By then the sniper will have run away to hide or get into another position. Or you have run into an ambush, set up by the comrades of the sniper :-D Sure you can start to design your encounters to allow for this, but this isn't much fun if you do it each turn.
  11. If I recall it correctly, the Exterminator mod can be added to any weapon, except pistol or thrown. In the description it says "... instead of firing your weapon you can fire the Exterminator...". Right? But shouldn't this upgrade be limited to ranged weapons? Or did I miss something? It would make sense because adding 1kg to a melee weapon would seriously unbalance it...
  12. Cheers Magnus, thanks for the feedback. Should be easy enough to procure and solves the issue of the empty bionic left arm in melee.
  13. Ah, okay. Maybe I can make it a personal goal for my character to search for such relics. To restore them in proper order and have them worshipped in a cathedral
  14. Thank you both for the quick answers. Oh cute, where can those relics be found? I guess those are unique items which can't be simply procured.
  15. I'm wondering is the WS/BS bonus from a custom grip stack for talents like Crushing Blow when calculating the WS Bonus? Or are boni only calculated of 'raw' characteristic stats?
  16. OK, here is my build so far (currently at 9000xp spent) I would like to here your opinion if it is not too combat focussed. I have the feeling that my character build doesn't really support combat that well because I don't have the Finesse aptitude which is required for most useful combat talent. !WARNING: long post incoming! First off: I got a refund for stat upgrades because, apparently I rolled really bad in comparison to the other acolytes on my stats (about 50% lower). Shrine World: Willpower Adeptus ministorum: Social Hierophant: Fellowship, Offence, Social, Toughness, Willpower Doubles get me: Weapon Skill and Agility Divination: Violence Solves Everything (+3 WS -3 INT) Characteristics: WS 46 with Simple and Intermediate upgrades for (350xp) BS 42 S 31 T 42 AG 33 SI (750xp) INT 30 PER 37 WP 43 FEL 41 SI (350xp) Total Wounds 9 Total XP spent on Char upgrades 1450xp Talents Hatred (Heretical Cults) Free Weapon Training (Solid Projectile) Free Resistance (Fear) 300xp Clues from the Crowds 200xp WT Las & Chain 600 Swift Attack 450 Inescapable Attack 450 Blademaster 600 Whirlwind of Death 450 (This seems a little situational but after all I am the only Melee character) Combat Master 450 (Again situational but a fellow player told me this is key for melee characters) Hardy 450 (Although the best way to survive is not taking any damage but breaking the healing mechanic is too good to pass on) Total 3950 xp spent on Talents Skills (KTEV = Known, Trained, Expert & Veteran) Athletics K 200 Awareness K 300 Charm KT 200 (K Free) Command K 200 CL Ecclesiarchy K Free CL Imperial Creed K 100* CL Imperial Guard K 100* Deceive KT 300 Dodge KT 600 FL Heresy K 150* FL Mutants K 150* Inquiry KT 300 Interrogation KT 300 Intimidate K 200 Linguistics High Gothic Free Medicae K 300 Parry K 200 Scrutiny K Free *We get a 50% reduction on all Lore skills in our campaign. Total 3600 XP spent on Skills Grand total 900xp Spent of which 5350xp is directly linked to combat proficiency (= 59,44%) Before I dive into my wishlist, here is my current gear: Hot-Shot Lasgun, Custom Grip and Red-Dot I took this, to be somewhat effective at range because typically you are not always in melee range. Chainsword, Custom Grip and currently modded with a Exterminator (which threw off the balance of the blad because our Tech-Priest messed the mod up, so I want it removed and placed on my Lasgun) Militarum Tempustus Carapace Refractor Field And the following Talents are still high on my wanted list (in order of priority): Quick Draw 300, to avoid losing a Half Action or a full round in equipping weapons. Parry +10 400, for survival in Melee. True Grit 600, for obvious survivability Crushing Blow 400, for damage output and because it's a Tier 3 Talent I have both aptitudes for! One on One 450 ,for damage output in a duel Disarm 300, because it seems appealing to knock the opponents weapon free in a duel. Take Down 200, because I don't want to kill the suspect I still want to interrogate. This list does look quite long and would need another 2650 XP! And this doesn't include boosting any stats: here WS, Strength and Toughness seem most important and affordable. Something else I wonder about is: is it worth to take extra wounds? At 200xp a pop I pay lowest the possible price yet it feels like throwing away xp in comparison to other talents. And I already feel I have over invested in Combat Talents and I feel I desperately need some Social interraction Talents. Yes another list incoming ;-) In order of importance Peer Ecclisarchy 200, Peer Inquisition 200 Coordinated Interrogation 450 If you have read down to here, you might have wondered why I took some skills like, CL IG, Athlecs and Medicae. This is because my GM wrote me a wounderfull background story how my character was detached to a IG unit fighting an Ork invasion before he was selected to join the inquisition. I really like to have a character build that represents this history so I want to keep some traces in. I already have cut Jaded (although a great talent) to become more efficient in combat, as this would be very much appreciated in a IG regiment. Ha
  17. I thank you for all the good insights. @Magnus Grendel how does the shield buff the parry? If you parry with the blade for +10 parry, you don't get the blade bonus right? I do think that I have to invest in Dodge though. I don't expect to be in melee with all my foes. Could you please give me an example of a good shield. I didn't find any in the book that where appealing to me. I was rather thinking of going two weapon fighting in the long run.
  18. Could it be that the database for armor isn't complete yet? I can't seem to find the Refractor Field. Rosarius is there.
  19. Wow thanks Alox, I didn't realise that leadership is such a bad Aptitude and that you can choose to have double aptitudes on purpose. Being able to choose Agility for aptitude makes the Melee build a whole lot more viable.
  20. I forgot: this is because the "Violence solves everything" Divination: Turned 23 into 20. But I could swap this with -3 to INT, which isn't bad either right? My logic was: failing an INT based check by 1-3 % isn't going to kill me but failing that dodge check might
  21. I rolled badly and I wanted to re-roll a bad 23 or so on perception. I wasn't aware that AG solely determines your movement, I thought S should be involved.
  22. Hi everybody, I would like to seek out some help from the community in determining an effective build for my Hierophant. I started him off thinking the DH2.0 wasn't so much about optimized builds but I was wrong of course as taking talents because they look cool or are advised in the core book isn't the best idea. So basically, I have 7500 xp and the following base stats (which I can't re-roll). I am looking for your experiences or ideas. WS 36, BS 37, S 31, T 37, AG 20, INT 33, PER 32, WP 38 FEL 31 My aptitudes are: WP, Leadership, FEL, Social, Toughness and I picked WS. My character's background is a Priest that got detached in the IG in a war vs Orks. He was leading the guardsmen in combat before he was drafted by the inquisition. My idea was to build the following: Some Melee ability, as our party is lacking this and I like the idea of him being a little bit like a commisar: swinging his sword for morale mainly I know AG 20 is really bad, so I wanted to compensate for that by a refractor field, to have some kind of defence. Other gear would be Chainsaw (custom grip), Hotshot Lasgun (red-dot). For combat I would choose the following talents: Swift Attack, Inescapable Attack and Blade Master Boost some stats: WS to 46, T to 42, PER to 37 (for inescapable attack). I would also like to boost FEL to 41 (to be effective at skill checks) and WP to 42 for the WP bonus on Sway the Masses (though this seems less important). What are the roleplay talents, apart from Peer(X) that would fit a talky character, who get's his way by persuading people?
  23. Thanks for the feedback. Sadly my character lacks Agility, currently it's at 20. So I don't want to aim for the Agility build. I was wondering if a hand flamer can work in melee? That would be cool to develop dual wield skills. My original thought Is not to go the path of dual wield as in having sword and dagger or buckler. I was hoping to have a aggressive build with one dedicated melee weapon and a pistol in the other hand.
  24. Maybe I'm totally off but I think weapons in 40k get really deadly when you move into Plasma, Melta and Inferno or Power Weapon Range. And this should be like this. The only real way to defend against those things are: 1) Well tactical planning and killing the opponent by exploiting his weakness. 2) Obtain field generators, like Conversion Field and the likes. The fact that wounds are quite expensive seem quite natural, people can only take so much physical punishment. I refer to my Table Top 40 experience: toughness determines how easy you are to wound, armour can save you but else you are incapacitated. Unless you have friends that can take care of you, you die, horribly. Only very exceptional characters like, Inquisitors, Space Marines Captains and the likes have multiple wounds and take more abuse. And these characters are always protected by a force field. So especially in DH I wouldn't make everybody run about with Plasma Gun or the likes. The way I see wounds in DH, is how high your pain limit is: as long as the damage doesn't reach this you can function quite normally. Try to improve your pain limit, and see if you now can resists a flame thrower Just my 2 cents.
  25. I'm quite surprised that people are playing DH2 as if it were a PVP game. I think you should start by talking to people what 40k is all about and so they know how Grim the Future really is. One life is nothing to the Imperium, let alone to Inquisition. Only Space Marines got a chance to surviving battles for hundreds of years and this would mean they pick up Terminator armour somewhere on the road. It seems like Virtual games f***ed up her idea about RPG. Maybe you can start that this is rather a PVE world but more leaning towards try to get things done before s**t hits the fan. And you should count on it that s**t will hit the fan, rather sooner than later. Another thing, she was the previous GM? How did she run the game? Munchkin style or trying to kill off all PC's? I really feel for you cpteveros, it sounds like you need to educate this girl in gaming etiquette. Maybe try to explain it to her in person outside gaming. Agree on some rules: 1) the story is more important than playing by the exact rules, you can make suggestions on how it gets played but people should get more immersed in the experience, picturing themselves in the action. We play an adapted version of Marvel RPG, and what I find very helpful is to imagine that every PC's action is a drawing in a comic. So you rather explain what you are doing that saying: "I'm making a half-aimed attack vs the Cultist." You should get used to see the fun in failed actions as well. Just imagining it makes it funny and more bearable. And again, be prepared for bad things to happen, this is 40k. 2) no real rules discussion during sessions, GM has final saying Another thing would be to put more emphasis on the investigation and narrative part. Sure combat is important but your character should also have personality and a way to interact with the world around him/her. Although I can really understand her point of view because 40k is so different as an RPG setting, you are not the good-guys and the Inquisitor you are working for might well be a radical. In my current campaign the internal battles in the Inquisition are as important as the missions itselfs. This makes 40k really come to life for me: a FUBAR universe. BTW, being in need for good bionic parts, makes a perfect occasion to get friendly with the Adeptus Mechanicus. Always nice to play out how they interact with the world Make her realise that in the universe of man, more technology is lost than there is rediscovered in the 41st Millenium. Inventions are Heresy so go figure with all those wars going on and the occasional exterminatus.
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