You're right to point out that the clans have shifted from their original state as portrayed in the Clan Wars. But I'd argue that this is a good thing, to a degree. Part of what makes the concept of an ongoing, player-driven storyline interesting is how it can show how time marches on. In our real world, what was true of, say, Germany a century ago, has informed but is not indicative of what that nation represents today. Because L5R is a setting steeped in tradition, it's rare to see changes that will drastically alter the landscape of a clan's values and beliefs, but keeping everything totally static and timeless negates the longterm value of offering fans the opportunity to shake things up. Where I do think there is a problem is in how CCG tournaments had the greater influence on the story versus the RPG, by a wide margin. An RPG, moreso than a card game, derives the lion's share of its profit from a playerbase that is interested in the story and setting upon which it is designed. And I believe that allowing RPG players to shape that story and setting to a measure comparable to the LCG's players, would benefit the license as a whole. I do agree that this CAN be a good thing. I don't argue that the clans should retain their clan war flavor because things should be timeless. I argue simply that you should be able to communicate the themes and essence of a clan without engaging in a ton of discussion about lore. Pointing to any point in time really could do the trick, though, some time frames are more simple than others to understand. Clan war is, in my opinion, the natural place to look to because that is where the clans were defined in the first place. Trying to use the four winds, or wrath of the khan era would be much more difficult - because these eras are dependent upon a whole host of events having happened first. Heck just look at how often the Yasuki have changed hands, or the Agasha, or the minor clans that have been absorbed into the Mantis. I mean these are hugely complex events to describe on the geopolitical stage of Rokugan. The example I can easily think of is really the Mantis - I had a game where someone wanted to play a Wasp clan archer. Great. So if I play in the current era I have to talk about how the Wasp were once independent and did not have great clan status, then they entered an informal association, then they were fully absorbed, then the clan that did the absorbing maybe broke apart, and now they may or may not be back together again. The reason the above matters is because the player wants to be able to orient his character in the world vis-a-vis the NPCs and the other PCs. NPCs and PCs are going to have a very complex opinion of this character, and the player should be able to understand what that opinion is likely to be in broad strokes (obviously leaving room for individual prejudice etc.) so that he can portray that character in a way that makes sense. He also, as it turns out, did a whole bunch of reading in the first edition materials, but the game was set during the four winds era. So yeah, basically he did something good (reading lore) because he was interested in it, but because of the historical setting I had to be like, while most of what you've read is true, some of it maybe didn't happen that way and all of it is out of date. Awful thing. Granted I didn't tell him that there were some supplements that had been written before the date of the current game, but still. The current world is just not all that accessible - especially if you're returning to the game after a hiatus or you never really played the CCG. With regard to RPG players being able to help change the world - I totally agree that this is fun. I think the place for this however is in independent or semi-associated living campaigns rather than trying to do this in formalized way like the CCG has done. The way that Pathfinder Society or the old living D&D campaign did this I think was probably the right approach. E.g. Make the core product a toolbox with simple and accessible concepts. Support the game with lore, but don't make knowledge of the deep lore a requisite to being able to truthfully portray the character. The world of Rokugan and the strictures of Bushido etc. are complex enough already. I guess what I'd like to see is not a Rokugan "any way" but a Rokugan "two ways." One, the information in the core rules and supplements that establishes a "pure" version of the game. Personally, I would love it if it went back to clan wars because I think that this presented the clans in their most essential and easiest to communicate to new players way. But again, any time period, even a full blown BSG style re-imagining would do it for me so long as it's easy to grasp for new players. You can go deep into the histories and what not the way 1st ed did, but don't make it required. The second way could be a semi-associated living campaign. This game, with support of FFG, would attempt to track the current story line of the LCG - and would give players who choose to participate in the living campaign and want to/have the time to dive deep into the lore and stay current on the LCG happenings the ability to do so. This would also be an easy way to give RPG players the ability to help influence the meta.

On the Reboot - that's why I think a reboot to something close to the Clan Wars is desirable. I really believe that the clans in the their current state are not reflective of their original intent. They've changed over time as a result of card mechanics and the outcome of tournaments, not because it is necessarily "appropriate" or "on theme" to have a story go in a particular way. While I think that having a meta-plot in a CCG is a cool idea, I don't know how faithful an RPG should be to that premise. I know there's a desire to see the two as "linked" and taking place in the same current universe - unless the RPG writers are constantly doing meta-plot updates simultaneous with the card game story-line that's a really difficult design philosophy to stick to. Though, to be fair, I have always been MUCH more a fan of the RPG than the card game which may explain my reluctance to embrace the change and also why I feel like I don't really lose anything if the story reverts. I don't have a relationship to it. I'm not even saying it needs to go back to the "canonical" time of the clan wars - just to some time that a) is not dependent upon a deep understand of over 2 decades of CCG lore and b) presents the themes of the clan in a "pure" state such that they can easily be communicated to new players and will be recognized by players who maybe have been away for a little while but are coming back for the new edition and designers. As for the honor discussion: I actually think that this could be tied into the court mechanics somehow. As some people on these forums have stated, I agree with the idea that there should be a "micro" as well as a "macro" game for courtly politics. The way I ran my court games was always in "seasons" with each season taking place at a different court or at two geographically close courts. While it could mean extra book-keeping I think that the courtly exploits of the characters could be tracked at the level of these various courts. While there maybe dozens of possibilities I think that only a handful need to be fully detailed out by the designers - so long as some guidance is given on how to generate and track things like influence, glory, favors, and yes even perceptions of honor as to the character in that court. Regardless though, I also think that there should be an individual component to honor as well - I just don't know what that should look like. Maybe bonus dice depending on your character acting in a way that emphasizes a Bushido virtue in which he is particularly strong? Free raises? If roll & keep is not maintained - this could be something else entirely.

OTOH, it also makes Scorpion especially more powerful if they can turn honor against you, as they're supposed to do. The problem is more that each of the clans have their own spins on honor that other clans don't quite agree with, and the Spider is their own thing that should still be susceptible to the fallout of breaking it while not actually caring about it in-clan. Bear in mind that seeking peace is completely within the code for Crane, Phoenix, and Unicorn, and pretty much anathema to Crab, Lion, and Mantis. What does a maximum honor-ranked Kitsuki magistrate do when the evidence they see shows a truth that would shame, for instance, a Shosuro ally who was operating in the best interests of the Empire? How do we handle a courtier who's above reproach in the eyes of court, but is secretly a Kolat operative? Is a duelist who's openly mocking someone he surrendered to of high honor because he can kill anyone who challenges him (and is correct in his commentary), or of low honor for turning his back on tradition? And how do we do all of this and keep the rules manageable? OTOH, it also makes Scorpion especially more powerful if they can turn honor against you, as they're supposed to do. The problem is more that each of the clans have their own spins on honor that other clans don't quite agree with, and the Spider is their own thing that should still be susceptible to the fallout of breaking it while not actually caring about it in-clan. Bear in mind that seeking peace is completely within the code for Crane, Phoenix, and Unicorn, and pretty much anathema to Crab, Lion, and Mantis. What does a maximum honor-ranked Kitsuki magistrate do when the evidence they see shows a truth that would shame, for instance, a Shosuro ally who was operating in the best interests of the Empire? How do we handle a courtier who's above reproach in the eyes of court, but is secretly a Kolat operative? Is a duelist who's openly mocking someone he surrendered to of high honor because he can kill anyone who challenges him (and is correct in his commentary), or of low honor for turning his back on tradition? And how do we do all of this and keep the rules manageable? At some point, the GM has to step in make actual decisions and judgement calls -- there's no way to make all of that into a set of conditionals and formulas and rules that won't turn every instance of honor in the game into an hour-long mess. So this is really the problem. In the lore, Akodo was most directly responsible for the creation of Bushido - Bushido is the basis for honor - therefore it might make some sense to use that as the basis for honor. The problem is though, as you both have highlighted, the clans and families have all put their own spin on "honor." The Scorpion, Crab, Wasp, and Spider all have their own "codes" more or less that varying degrees of different from "traditional" bushido. So the question really comes down to a matter of balance - either you say there is "one" code of honor and the further you deviate from it, the worse off you are - or you allow multiple "codes" in which case PCs will all mostly have high honor so long as they each live up to their own codes. Then you also get into "personal" spins on the code of Bushido. Do you lend credence to a PC's personal code? On a related point, honor in some way is supposed to influence how people view your character in the world - so then is honor assessed from the point of view of the extrinsic beholder, or the intrinsic "possessor" of the honor score? Tough stuff. Regardless though - I don't know that it's up to the GM to make this call. I think that to the extent that you're going to make this a game about "honor" you need to have some sort of objective standard against which it is judged, even if you use multiple standards - you also need to tie this into how the world views your character, or decide that it doesn't. Personally, something I've always enjoyed about L5R is that it is played in a world where humans are forced up against a code that demands them to be MORE THAN human. Fall in love with a girl? Doesn't matter - you marry who your lord tells you to. Are you afraid of that demon? Doesn't matter - you are expected to charge it head on. Thus, I've always been comfortable "punishing" low honor PCs because I think it's an impossible code to live up to perfectly - the path of Bushido is striving for perfection while kind of knowing that you'll never reach it, in my own opinion. But doesn't the striving for perfection make your soul stronger still? Thus, I've always wanted there to be a tangible benefit to honor - the honor roll mechanic doesn't really do it justice in my opinion - also the code is only fleshed out in the "fluffy" bits of the book, though they are present in the form of paragon advantages I guess - the individual duties are not present on the character sheet, they're all rolled into one. In some of my games, I've tried to split Bushido out into its constitutions virtues and let the players argue when their high rank in one should justify a tangible benefit - again this has been somewhat more satisfying but I'd like there to be some firm design decisions made on this. Regarding the mechanics issue: I personally would not mind at all if the mechanical aspect of the game mirrored Edge of the Empire. Roll & Keep could be salvaged in my opinion, but I don't know exactly how I'd do it. Whereas, I think It might be easier to design a some generic archetypes and skill trees that would then be modified based on clan/family relations. Plus, it keeps a consistent feel in FFG's products which helps to broaden the player base. Maybe I'll end up doing my own mock-up of a conversion just for fun. I'll have to see what life looks like after next week.

Hello, world. This is my first post on these forums though I've been an l5R fan since I first picked up the game CCG back in 2000 - I've been playing the RPG (semi) consistently since then as well. Generally, I think that FFG has a big hill to climb with the L5R franchise in general. The L5R fan-base is niche but rabidly loyal. However, they're dealing with a property that since its inception has changed fundamentally several times and has been subject to wildly inconsistent approaches taken by whoever held the property at that time. At various times L5R has been a game that I recognized, and a game that has been so fundamentally changed that the basic precepts of what makes the clans the clans or the world the world that it has been practically unrecognizable. AEG took the approach that the game "is" whatever you want it to be because you can put it in any historical setting - this made a game that is all at once steeped in lore but at the same time deeply ambivalent about canon or keeping the themes of the clans and even the world consistent. On the one hand - you have Togashi who in the first edition "classic" L5R refused to participate in the tournament of the children of heaven - and then years later you have the clan of Togashi on the throne of Rokugan. Sure, there is a complex litany of events both concrete and not so concrete that lead to this. But this is a tremendous shift in the theme of that clan that makes the world hard to recognize for all but the hardcore fans of editions beyond the "classic" era who can cite these events. Without that frame of reference - a ton of the lore developed for first edition etc. doesn't make sense. Are the ninja agents of the nameless shadow? Are they a Scorpion clan ruse? Or are they actually a thing that the Scorpion clan trains and uses in the traditional sense of the ninja? Are duels only fought with katana, or can you choose other weapons? Do the Crane still even matter at all politically? My point is that the franchise in its current state is just not marketable to enough new players. The ancient, clunky, roll & keep system is also something that gets in the way. So with that in mind, here is the response of an L5R "traditionalist": The lore of the game needs a total reboot. I don't care if this is a back to first edition or if it's a Battlestar Galactica Style reimagining - FFG should take this opportunity to redefine the game and the "givens" of the universe such that it can clearly be communicated to new players. This clan values art and has a stranglehold on politics. That clan is the undisputed masters of magic etc. My experience is that L5R is a world that people become more interested in over time. My opinion is that there have to be quick and easy hooks to get people to a place where they can develop that appreciation for the richness of the world - because if I sit down and try to explain that: well that clan used to be X but the Y happened so now they're still elements of X but also Y and then of course context Z happened which caused this little change - no one is going to care unless they already do. Roll and keep needs streamlining - It's all well and good if you're rolling four dice. It's another thing entirely once you start rolling upwards of 6 - and all of them have the chance to explode. The reason this is a problem is just the time to recognize success or failure. Some systems have you roll a handful of dice and if they come up X or more that's a success. Others have you roll one die, add a number, and compare it to a TN/DC. Roll and keep kind of has you doing both. You have to a) scan the dice to find your highest numbers, then b) add them together and c) compare the result to the TN + any raises you called. I'm sure some of you are really good at mental math and can do this in your sleep. I am not and I know there are others like me. I think FFG needs to tweak the system in some way as to make determining success quick so that we can stay in the action I agree we need better court rules - RPGs have traditionally been bad at courtly intrigue - but that's okay because the roots of RPGs are in slaying monsters. In as much as L5R can be about slaying monsters, the world tells you that it's as much about intrigue and courtly goings on as it is about monsters and magic. FFG needs to develop a system for tracking influence and favors or reputation or courtly prestige etc. In my mind a session at court should be just as exciting as an iaijutsu duel from a mechanical perspective. The right group can make any scene exciting without mechanics. I get that. Sometimes social rules can get in the way. I get that too. But, intrigue is a core part of the L5R experience. Courtiers are a classic archetype of the setting. Give them some way to play the game aspects of the game like bushi and shugenja get to. Making one roll to see if I convince the dude or not doesn't count. Your house rule doesn't either. Leaving a system like this out would be design laziness Reduce the number of skills and write them in plain English. I get that this is a game heavily influenced by Japanese culture - but there are also elements of Chinese culture, Indian culture, Mongol culture, and Korean culture. I've always been a big fan of the "Rokugan, not Japan" thing for this very reason. Why we have some skills in Japanese and some skills in English has always been a mystery to me. In my opinion it alienates new players and also takes time to explain. Also - way too many skills, many of which are poorly defined as to when they apply and the mastery abilities are also complex. I agree that FFG should reduce the number of "elements" to the game. Techniques, Kata, Kiho, Spells, Mastery Abilities, honor, glory, status, rings, traits, equipment. It's a ton of stuff to keep track of. Each has its own rules of acquisition, its own subsystems, its own modifiers etc. Again, it makes the game just kind of fatty for no reason. Speaking of which: Make honor meaningful. The tagline for the game has been at various points something to the effect of "welcome to a world where honor is more powerful than steel." In 4th edition, honor is not more powerful than steel. Steel wins every time. Other than being L5R's version of the ole' alignment bat and maybe having fluff effects - honor does nothing mechanically. Unless you play with the honor roll rule in which case you're penalizing the clans that start with low honor to begin with.