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thopol

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  1. Like
    thopol got a reaction from mtgred in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    I think that it's ridiculous that a site that is clearly working for the best interests of FFG and its community was closed down.  Sure, it had problems where IP is concerned, but FFG could have approached it in a more productive fashion.  A C&D before a layman-intelligible email is a strategy of intimidation, not of communication; destructive, not productive.  I think it's ridiculous that FFG saw the backlash and didn't feel the need to respond to their customers.  Though you say they did respond.  A link to wherever they said that about the acceptable use policy would be much appreciated.
     
    I think I understand your perspective, and I too am maddened seeing opinions based on hearsay and hunches.  That said, if you don't think that a) the netrunnerdb shutdown, and b) the non-communicative nature of the company, are not negative things, then you and I (and virtually everyone else posting in this thread) are at an impasse and there's no reason to continue discussing it.  If you think that it was a reasonable action, but still a negative one, then we are in agreement.  I think you have contributed to the discussion in a valuable way, with reasoned and informed responses.  There is no reason not to take the same attitude and try to inform people of the real problems and possible solutions that there may be.  If your understandable frustration leaves you terse and negative, I feel your pain and recommend you post when you are in better condition for your own sake.
     
    EDIT: I recognize that my opinions are also based on hearsay and hunches.  Nobody knows what's going on.  I guess I just meant that the rumors get sensational and it's better to form your opinions on guesses that are better grounded than those.
  2. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Pixel in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    I think that it's ridiculous that a site that is clearly working for the best interests of FFG and its community was closed down.  Sure, it had problems where IP is concerned, but FFG could have approached it in a more productive fashion.  A C&D before a layman-intelligible email is a strategy of intimidation, not of communication; destructive, not productive.  I think it's ridiculous that FFG saw the backlash and didn't feel the need to respond to their customers.  Though you say they did respond.  A link to wherever they said that about the acceptable use policy would be much appreciated.
     
    I think I understand your perspective, and I too am maddened seeing opinions based on hearsay and hunches.  That said, if you don't think that a) the netrunnerdb shutdown, and b) the non-communicative nature of the company, are not negative things, then you and I (and virtually everyone else posting in this thread) are at an impasse and there's no reason to continue discussing it.  If you think that it was a reasonable action, but still a negative one, then we are in agreement.  I think you have contributed to the discussion in a valuable way, with reasoned and informed responses.  There is no reason not to take the same attitude and try to inform people of the real problems and possible solutions that there may be.  If your understandable frustration leaves you terse and negative, I feel your pain and recommend you post when you are in better condition for your own sake.
     
    EDIT: I recognize that my opinions are also based on hearsay and hunches.  Nobody knows what's going on.  I guess I just meant that the rumors get sensational and it's better to form your opinions on guesses that are better grounded than those.
  3. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Brighteyes-GR in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    I think that it's ridiculous that a site that is clearly working for the best interests of FFG and its community was closed down.  Sure, it had problems where IP is concerned, but FFG could have approached it in a more productive fashion.  A C&D before a layman-intelligible email is a strategy of intimidation, not of communication; destructive, not productive.  I think it's ridiculous that FFG saw the backlash and didn't feel the need to respond to their customers.  Though you say they did respond.  A link to wherever they said that about the acceptable use policy would be much appreciated.
     
    I think I understand your perspective, and I too am maddened seeing opinions based on hearsay and hunches.  That said, if you don't think that a) the netrunnerdb shutdown, and b) the non-communicative nature of the company, are not negative things, then you and I (and virtually everyone else posting in this thread) are at an impasse and there's no reason to continue discussing it.  If you think that it was a reasonable action, but still a negative one, then we are in agreement.  I think you have contributed to the discussion in a valuable way, with reasoned and informed responses.  There is no reason not to take the same attitude and try to inform people of the real problems and possible solutions that there may be.  If your understandable frustration leaves you terse and negative, I feel your pain and recommend you post when you are in better condition for your own sake.
     
    EDIT: I recognize that my opinions are also based on hearsay and hunches.  Nobody knows what's going on.  I guess I just meant that the rumors get sensational and it's better to form your opinions on guesses that are better grounded than those.
  4. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Brighteyes-GR in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    Relax Mysticpickle.  Don't let the internet make you angry.
     
    I still think FFG could and should write a response.  I accept that things are how they are, but they ought to save face.  It's not like when people forget this incident they will revise their impression of the company as well.  Time will heal the wound but not the injured party's opinion of the one who inflicted it.  Is this a company that wants to look like a rigid corporation just milking their money cows or do they think that gaming is a two way street and they need to work with the players?  Do they not care about their appearance and reputation?
  5. Like
    thopol got a reaction from xsdogstar in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    Well I'm on board now.  I won't say that I won't get any FFG products ever again, and I'm definitely not going to quit playing, but I'm going to give the datapacks and forcepacks a rest until we have some communication from the company on what is and is not allowed.  The lack thereof is a very damaging thing.  Anyway, there are games that I haven't bought because of my devotion to ANR and I might just get to play them now.  FFG makes some great games, but it's the community that took it to the next level.  If FFG is going to go laying waste to third party endeavors that benefit everyone, there's no reason to go on supporting them (the company I mean.  I'll still be visiting the sites and listening to the podcasts etc.).
     
    What we need is transparency when it comes to the relationship between FFG and the community.  I could respect their decisions if they felt that they needed to make a case in their defense.  If they remedy this enormous problem with the laughably easy solution of just communicating, I will go on buying their products.
     
    (That players union idea I had seems like a pippin.)
     
    EDIT:  To the boycotters.  If you want to make your boycott more punchy, also swear off other products in the licenses FFG has.  If you think they'll be afraid you'll stop buying, make them afraid that they won't be pulling in enough to please their partners.
  6. Like
    thopol got a reaction from xsdogstar in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    Signed.  What a horrible idea.  Free marketing, community, making people spend more time thinking about netrunner.  You don't go stabbing an asset like that in the back.  And making everyone angry.  Some people will always complain on the internet, but this is different.  I don't think anyone has FFG's back on this one.
     
    I think they do listen to us and this might just be somebody in the legal department who doesn't really know what they're doing.  Score a clone retirement to clear the bad pub guys!
  7. Like
    thopol got a reaction from mysticpickle2 in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    Grimwalker, I think you probably got it spot on with your comment that any clear community guidelines could cause problems with FFG's partners and that's what's keeping them quiet.
     
    That said, when you have an outcry in your fiercely loyal community, ignoring it outright seems like a bad business practice.  I'm entirely confident that FFG could comment on the shutdown in such a way as to soothe the frustration of many people without alienating their partners.  I've found the community to be quite reasonable and mature (it may not seem that way, but this thread is going to be the vocal minority and I still think the level of discourse is comparatively high), so I think people will be understanding if FFG makes a little effort.  I mean, so much of what is flying around is conjecture.  We know very little about the situation at all.  How backwards would things have to be so that they couldn't communicate at all, clear up rumors, make a vague statement about why, without jeopardizing their licenses.  Assuming they can't seems awfully cynical.
     
    PS: I know that you weren't saying they can't communicate, just talking about why they are probably unwilling to.  I think you are totally right about their motives, I'm just saying there is probably a way they can soothe the community and still dodge any bullets.
  8. Like
    thopol reacted to Grimwalker in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    If you're going to ignore the evidence printed on every single card that FFG recognizes and affirms WOTC's copyright, then yes, you and reality are dining at separate tables. 
     
     
    As an exercise for my own amusement, I tried writing just such a document. It was very difficult to craft language that said anything substantial and didn't either divulge too many details by what was *not* said, made statements so vague as to be subject to vast misinterpretation, or that didn't come across as crass deflection.
     
    I've had conversations with friends I have at FFG about past PR difficulties: late or damaged shipments, product defects that weren't caught by QA, et cetera. The lessons learned which they took from those incidents is that there really is no pleasing the internet. There's nothing you can say that won't inflame as many people as it assuages, and people will pick over and almost willfully misinterpret anything that can be.
    It's the reason FFG never gives hard release dates for its products.
    It's the reason we'll never again have a Plugged-In Tour or Chronos Protocol.
    It's the reason every single communication they make is routed through the pipeline of the Marketing department, so nobody is off-message.
    It's the reason why 90% of the time, FFG says nothing at all. The last time FFG actually did make a public statement about any kind of error, it was when that Mansions of Madness expansion had to be outright recalled and replacement components provided to every customer. Compared to that, one website is a small matter.
  9. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Brighteyes-GR in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    Grimwalker, I think you probably got it spot on with your comment that any clear community guidelines could cause problems with FFG's partners and that's what's keeping them quiet.
     
    That said, when you have an outcry in your fiercely loyal community, ignoring it outright seems like a bad business practice.  I'm entirely confident that FFG could comment on the shutdown in such a way as to soothe the frustration of many people without alienating their partners.  I've found the community to be quite reasonable and mature (it may not seem that way, but this thread is going to be the vocal minority and I still think the level of discourse is comparatively high), so I think people will be understanding if FFG makes a little effort.  I mean, so much of what is flying around is conjecture.  We know very little about the situation at all.  How backwards would things have to be so that they couldn't communicate at all, clear up rumors, make a vague statement about why, without jeopardizing their licenses.  Assuming they can't seems awfully cynical.
     
    PS: I know that you weren't saying they can't communicate, just talking about why they are probably unwilling to.  I think you are totally right about their motives, I'm just saying there is probably a way they can soothe the community and still dodge any bullets.
  10. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Brighteyes-GR in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    I only raise the telling us why they can't tell us why question because they are unwilling to communicate and virtually anything from them would fix that problem.  If they say "we can't talk about A because of B", that is still communication and it shows that, whether or not their hands are tied, they have some respect for their players in that we're demanding information and they respond.  As it is now, they don't seem to care at all about our demands for transparency and assume the hubbub will blow over.  I for one don't like being treated like that.
     
    I agree that the copyright and licensing points that you raise are probably behind this, but if that's the case, their treatment of community sites seems inconsistent.  What I'd like is something that one can reference when considering a netrunner fan-endeavor and see whether it will be acceptable to FFG or not.  Their interests, however reasonable they are, shouldn't preclude some such communication.
  11. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Brighteyes-GR in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    If they can't tell us why they they went about crushing a beloved community site, they should at least be able to tell us why they can't tell us why.  I would accept that.  I understand that we are dealing with both copyright and licensing here, so there could be any number of reasons why they felt the need to do this.  If they can't tell us why, because of how delicate those features of the property could be, at least tell us why they can't tell us.
     
    I'm at the point now where I accept that NRDB has been closed and I just want FFG to preserve their community by talking about the closure.  I don't mind how abstracted from this incident they address it at, but I want them to address it.  It's frankly ludicrous that nobody from FFG has made any public statement about such a controversial action.
  12. Like
    thopol got a reaction from MBarber82 in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    Just to remind you, not communicating their objections to NRDB doesn't only hurt that site.  If there are ambiguities in what differentiates a site they allow and a site they will close, people will be more reluctant to make new sites.  The whole community suffers.
  13. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Brighteyes-GR in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    Just to remind you, not communicating their objections to NRDB doesn't only hurt that site.  If there are ambiguities in what differentiates a site they allow and a site they will close, people will be more reluctant to make new sites.  The whole community suffers.
  14. Like
    thopol got a reaction from mysticpickle2 in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    Just to remind you, not communicating their objections to NRDB doesn't only hurt that site.  If there are ambiguities in what differentiates a site they allow and a site they will close, people will be more reluctant to make new sites.  The whole community suffers.
  15. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Pixel in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    It's been a week with no word from FFG about this debacle.  I for one will post in this thread every day or two until they give us some explanation and I hope others will do the same.  I'm sure they think that it will just blow over and they will get away with this outrage without a scratch.  Until they give me a reason not to, I will stay angry and stay vocal and I encourage others to do the same.
     
     
    I honestly think capitalism, broadly, does not preclude the existence of responsible and accountable companies.  Before this ****show, I would have considered FFG to be among the ranks of such.
     
    I understand what you're getting at, but if you think all big companies become bad and recommend everyone find a small company to support, doesn't that mean you're making the latter company into the former?  I think it's better to hold the first company accountable, to be angry loud and vicious, than to abandon ship and enable another company to become the same monster.
  16. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Brighteyes-GR in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    It's been a week with no word from FFG about this debacle.  I for one will post in this thread every day or two until they give us some explanation and I hope others will do the same.  I'm sure they think that it will just blow over and they will get away with this outrage without a scratch.  Until they give me a reason not to, I will stay angry and stay vocal and I encourage others to do the same.
     
     
    I honestly think capitalism, broadly, does not preclude the existence of responsible and accountable companies.  Before this ****show, I would have considered FFG to be among the ranks of such.
     
    I understand what you're getting at, but if you think all big companies become bad and recommend everyone find a small company to support, doesn't that mean you're making the latter company into the former?  I think it's better to hold the first company accountable, to be angry loud and vicious, than to abandon ship and enable another company to become the same monster.
  17. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Aral in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    It's been a week with no word from FFG about this debacle.  I for one will post in this thread every day or two until they give us some explanation and I hope others will do the same.  I'm sure they think that it will just blow over and they will get away with this outrage without a scratch.  Until they give me a reason not to, I will stay angry and stay vocal and I encourage others to do the same.
     
     
    I honestly think capitalism, broadly, does not preclude the existence of responsible and accountable companies.  Before this ****show, I would have considered FFG to be among the ranks of such.
     
    I understand what you're getting at, but if you think all big companies become bad and recommend everyone find a small company to support, doesn't that mean you're making the latter company into the former?  I think it's better to hold the first company accountable, to be angry loud and vicious, than to abandon ship and enable another company to become the same monster.
  18. Like
    thopol got a reaction from mysticpickle2 in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    It's been a week with no word from FFG about this debacle.  I for one will post in this thread every day or two until they give us some explanation and I hope others will do the same.  I'm sure they think that it will just blow over and they will get away with this outrage without a scratch.  Until they give me a reason not to, I will stay angry and stay vocal and I encourage others to do the same.
     
     
    I honestly think capitalism, broadly, does not preclude the existence of responsible and accountable companies.  Before this ****show, I would have considered FFG to be among the ranks of such.
     
    I understand what you're getting at, but if you think all big companies become bad and recommend everyone find a small company to support, doesn't that mean you're making the latter company into the former?  I think it's better to hold the first company accountable, to be angry loud and vicious, than to abandon ship and enable another company to become the same monster.
  19. Like
    thopol got a reaction from mtgred in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    You said it Barber.  Every day that passes without a word from them brings me closer from my initially moderate stance to the hardliners who are condemning the company as one of the horrible bottom-line-and-screw-any-other-considerations things we are all so familiar with.
     
    To put it another way, I'm starting to wonder if they splashed for closed accounts or if it's just in-faction (not that he was making any creds to begin with).
  20. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Rince in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    You said it Barber.  Every day that passes without a word from them brings me closer from my initially moderate stance to the hardliners who are condemning the company as one of the horrible bottom-line-and-screw-any-other-considerations things we are all so familiar with.
     
    To put it another way, I'm starting to wonder if they splashed for closed accounts or if it's just in-faction (not that he was making any creds to begin with).
  21. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Brighteyes-GR in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    You said it Barber.  Every day that passes without a word from them brings me closer from my initially moderate stance to the hardliners who are condemning the company as one of the horrible bottom-line-and-screw-any-other-considerations things we are all so familiar with.
     
    To put it another way, I'm starting to wonder if they splashed for closed accounts or if it's just in-faction (not that he was making any creds to begin with).
  22. Like
    thopol got a reaction from player1810695 in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    You said it Barber.  Every day that passes without a word from them brings me closer from my initially moderate stance to the hardliners who are condemning the company as one of the horrible bottom-line-and-screw-any-other-considerations things we are all so familiar with.
     
    To put it another way, I'm starting to wonder if they splashed for closed accounts or if it's just in-faction (not that he was making any creds to begin with).
  23. Like
    thopol got a reaction from mysticpickle2 in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    You said it Barber.  Every day that passes without a word from them brings me closer from my initially moderate stance to the hardliners who are condemning the company as one of the horrible bottom-line-and-screw-any-other-considerations things we are all so familiar with.
     
    To put it another way, I'm starting to wonder if they splashed for closed accounts or if it's just in-faction (not that he was making any creds to begin with).
  24. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Brighteyes-GR in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    Well I'm on board now.  I won't say that I won't get any FFG products ever again, and I'm definitely not going to quit playing, but I'm going to give the datapacks and forcepacks a rest until we have some communication from the company on what is and is not allowed.  The lack thereof is a very damaging thing.  Anyway, there are games that I haven't bought because of my devotion to ANR and I might just get to play them now.  FFG makes some great games, but it's the community that took it to the next level.  If FFG is going to go laying waste to third party endeavors that benefit everyone, there's no reason to go on supporting them (the company I mean.  I'll still be visiting the sites and listening to the podcasts etc.).
     
    What we need is transparency when it comes to the relationship between FFG and the community.  I could respect their decisions if they felt that they needed to make a case in their defense.  If they remedy this enormous problem with the laughably easy solution of just communicating, I will go on buying their products.
     
    (That players union idea I had seems like a pippin.)
     
    EDIT:  To the boycotters.  If you want to make your boycott more punchy, also swear off other products in the licenses FFG has.  If you think they'll be afraid you'll stop buying, make them afraid that they won't be pulling in enough to please their partners.
  25. Like
    thopol got a reaction from Brighteyes-GR in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    At least we deserve to know why this happened.  If people are going around making sites to build up the game, they should avoid the pitfalls that make FFG shut them down.  This undermines the community so much by discouraging people from being engaged and creative.
     
    There has been zero attempt at damage control.  What the hell.
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