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  1. 71 point Soontir definitely falls in the 'for fun' category. However, it could still be effective. I would look for opportunities to use afterburners for arc-dodging or for setting up the bullseye. If soontir is able to get focus+evade and has lone wolf, he's actually extremely difficult to hurt even inside a couple of arcs (as long as they're not all range 1)
  2. But then that's not 181st, which is what the OP wants to run. I think outmanoeuvre is fine on Turr. If you plan on using him solely to take on lower Initiative, or if you keep him separate from the rest of your squad and flank with him, then it will be good. Otherwise, not so much. Predator is okay on Soontir, but you really won't be able to line up the bullseye all the time. So it will come into play on occasion. I really find lone wolf the best on him, but I'm not sure that's the right choice for this particular squad. Or at least, if you did run Lone Wolf on Soontir, then I would go with Predator or Crack Shot on Turr (or even just replace him with another Sabre Ace for more initiative bid). Then run Soontir as the flanker and try to keep him far away from the rest of your squad.
  3. Whether you want it for 'fun' or 'competition', I think you could still squeeze a little more efficiency into the squad. Its not like interceptors are borderline OP (even Soontir). To do so, my suggestion is simply replace Juke with Crack Shot on the Sabres, and then used the points saved to give Soontir a Shield Upgrade. While I think Juke is a good Talent, its not really the best value on a squishy interceptor, and while crack shot doesn't always come into play, you should get to use it at least once in most games (which is reasonable value for 2 points). Plus, Shield Upgrade really helps Soontir make it to the endgame where he actually becomes dangerous...
  4. The TIE defender DID get a 'points buff'. All pilots are 2 points cheaper than they were pre-points revision (possible exception being Vessery---not sure if his points changed, but the rest I'm certain of, because I've used them all)
  5. Well she would be stressed since all the hard turns on the striker dial are white, but I don't think that is the most important type of move Jerjerrod offers for Duchess...
  6. Hate is REALLY good on Vader. An absolute steal at 3 points...
  7. If you are going to fly Oicunn, you should really be taking Moff Jerferrod. It is the single most key upgrade to get value out of Oicunn's ability. Not to mention, the turn you activate Jerjerrod, it affects ALL of your ships, no range restrictions! This makes it a steal for 10 points (despite the stress cost---remember that a blue move dialed in clears that stress immediately). With Jerjerrod, its really not hard to set up an ideal opening engagement with your Flanker swooping in (seemingly out of no where with that free boost from jerjerrod), and oicunn bumped against the enemy's front ship and Sai trailing behind Oicunn, hopefully cutting off some of your opponent's potential k-turns for the following round. Here's the list I would start with: Oicunn w/ intimidation, moff jerjerrod & dauntless = 95 Sai w/ ST-321 = 51 Duchess w/ lone wolf = 47 193 So you have 7 points left that could be put to good use. I'm not sure what the best option would be, but I would consider the following: a) Moff Tarkin on Oicunn for 6 pts (free target locks for all of your ships, even if they can't normally target lock) b) Freelance Slicer + ISB Slicer on Sai for 6 pts (I can't stress enough how powerful this little combo can be to shut down token stacks, such as whisper, Vader and Poe) c) replace lone wolf with ruthless/crack shot or predator on Duchess and then give her 5th Brother (this just improves action efficiency) d) replace Duchess entirely with Soontir Fel, but you won't have much of a bid, so its less than ideal imho. Also, Duchess sort of benefits more from Jerjerrod than Soontir since she's not stressing herself all the time and can combine the free boost with her ailerons move.
  8. I would definitely switch predator for FCS on Corran. FCS getting a point drop makes it much better than Predator. And in this squad in particular, its pretty easy to get Corran the actions so he can safely move TL when he needs to. As for afterburners, that's a tough call. Ideally you would want it on both of them, really, but since you haven't got the points for that, I'd say try it out both ways and see what you end up liking better.
  9. Its not easy to use, for sure. Generally speaking, I always place alpha middle of the table close as possible to my board edge. Then, based on what my opponent is using and how he deploys, alpha will either delay with 1 hard turns/barrel rolls, or will shoot out fast towards the OPPOSITE SIDE that the opponent is on. The basic strategy is to force the opponent to engage you in the rocks or at least if they want to go after alpha they have to move through the part of the board that is going to be most difficult for them. If its clear to me that alpha can engage the opening shots at range 3, or even better, only part of the squad can shoot him, then he engages. If not, he runs. And when engaging at range 3, there's really nothing the opponent can do to stop alpha from getting a follow-up block (which activates Juke for the defenders). As for the Defenders, I put about a 2 straight template gap between them, back far enough that their 3 hard turn will easily miss any rock that was put in your corner. I usually place them far from the opponent and then either turn them immediately to go along my board edge, or else they go fast straight along the side board edge. The decision is based entirely on what looks to me will give them the most open spaces for their long moves to clear (like their 3 banks/turns and their 4 k-turns). Defenders CAN sort of fight inside a cluster of rocks using a 'hit+run' approach, but they really prefer wide open space so your opponent has no idea whether you will turn, k-turn, or whatever. Unpredictable flight patterns can get your opponent feeling nervous and might lead to a mistake on their part. But its not easy to explain this sort of thing, and it requires a lot of practice playing solo to get comfortable with it (VASSAL really helps with that because its so easy to set things up and move backwards and forwards through different opening scenarios). So I can understand if you are more interested in finding a list with less of a learning curve to get good results with...
  10. I think your analysis is spot on. I agree with the conclusions you've made with all those upgrades you've listed. If we are talking specifically including a Lambda as the 3rd ship alongside double defenders, then I agree that your 'good' options are quite limited: --Jendon + FCS Deltas goes 'all in' on the firepower, at the expense of maneuvering flexibility (because the lambda must activate last due to higher initiative). Still a tempting option just because the squad already has decent durability overall, but is a bit on the low end in terms of firepower, and anything that improves damage potential is going to help win games. --Collision Detector on the shuttle is a really good idea and that leaves only 2 good cards to go with it: Minister Tua or ST-321. Former is defensive in nature and latter offensive. Neither are particularly amazing, but either way, collision detector will have a lot of value on the shuttle. --Palpatine. I agree with you that he's not a bad choice. The fact that everything is Initiative 1 means its nice to have that extra eye-conversion from time to time. I guess my 'beef' with him is the fact that he feels like a 'nice-to-have' upgrade like FCS, but costs a lot more. But I agree that in the context of running a Lambda as the 3rd ship, he's as good a choice as any we've already talked about (and better than the rest that you listed). However, for me, I would prefer to look at a different 3rd ship than the lambda. Lambda + 2 Deltas is going to fly in a very specific way that doesn't leave many opportunities to 'surprise' your opponent quite the same way as having a flanker. Its mainly a question of play-style, not 'doing it wrong', but I would much prefer to put Fel in the squad simply because his presence has greater potential to cause your opponent to screw up their opening and give you an early game advantage. Juke Echo/Whisper are also strong choices, although probably less likely to mess with your opponent's head in the opening stages (compared to Soontir). I think I might prefer Echo here simply because he's harder to catch once he's heavily damaged, and you can possibly set up a 'cat & mouse' scenario where your opponent desperately chases after him, letting your deltas get in behind the enemy, free to grab Target Locks and put out fully modified shots. Pure Sabaac with Lone Wolf and either Proton Bombs or Shield Upgrade could also work, but is not quite as hard to pin down as Soontir, and so ultimately I think it falls more in the 'fun' category. And As I mentioned earlier, 2 Onyx Aces I think are really strong thanks to Initiative 4 + Juke. They can have some rough matchups (Palob and Force Users mainly), but are tough enough and hit hard enough that they can dispatch higher Initiative Aces, fat turrets, or even swarms. The 3rd ship is never going to shine, and that's why I like alpha best---he's not going to accomplish a whole lot, but all I need him to do is put in a key block, and ideally, if he's not dead at the end of the first turn of shooting, he can flee and the opponent is left with the awkward choice of chasing after him or try to deal with the pair of juking defenders that are likely k-turning on their arses...either way, it always feels like I'm in a strong position and my opponent is left with making the best of a not ideal situation.
  11. Oops, my mistake. I thought for some reason that the lowest Initiative Omicron Pilot was 2. The fact that he is 1 means just disregard my comments about initiative order! Even so, I just don't see Palp being worth 13 points in conjunction with Defenders. I think the most effective squad would be to put FCS on the Deltas and take Colonel Jendon, but then of course, your shuttle becomes higher Initiative, and that might end up being problematic... I don't think FCS is terribly important. It definitely sits in the 'nice-to-have' rather than the 'must-have' category. If your opponent is ignoring your defenders though, its value certainly increases. I can definitely see the value of having it with a coordinating ship as you suggest. However, how often is a TIE fighter going to be in a safe enough position to coordinate? Without its action, its probably going to be destroyed in a single turn of shooting on it, so I'm skeptical that it would be a useful addition to any list...
  12. I've flown A LOT of defenders over my years playing this game. I think they are one of the most powerful ships in the game, and frankly, I'm surprised more people aren't using them. The X-7 title is so potent in 2.0 that even the deltas are going to be worth their points generally speaking, but the fact is, Juke is such a 'force multiplier' that its kind of remiss to pass it up. For that reason, I think the Onyx Aces are far more valuable than the Deltas. With Juke, they come in at 82 points apiece, so that leaves you only 36 points for a 3rd ship. Unfortunately, its not enough for an 'ace' (unless you want a TIE fighter). Personally, I've been having good success with an alpha interceptor as the 3rd ship. Its blocking potential gives you greater opportunities to slip damage through with Juke and simultanously helps keep the alpha alive (since opponents ALWAYS want to kill it first). If you really want to fly Deltas + Soontir though, I think it can work. I would definitely put predator on Soontir, however, because elusive is just going to be crap on him. Opening is going to be pretty much the same every game: Soontir tries to flank while the Deltas go 'head on'. The enemy will most likely turn to face Soontir (very few opponents can resist such a tempting target, and a lot of people have an unnatural hatred of him left over from 1.0 experiences!). So always keep that in mind and fly Soontir in a way that keeps him safe from enemy fire. Deltas can plow into just about anything, even barrage rocket bombers as long as you dive into range 1 of most of them. I do NOT recommend a palp shuttle with double defenders any more, however. That list archetype only worked in 1.0 because of how 'broken' palp was before getting nerfed. The shuttle also can get in the way, constraining your ability to maneuver your defenders well, because delta defenders have to move first with a lower Initiative (if it were the other way around, I think they could work so much better by using coordinate shenanigans, but there simply isn't enough points to make Onyx Aces + Shuttle work effectively). As to flying defenders, the biggest mistake I see when I watch other people using them is to keep their defenders close together. Its a bad habit gained from the fact that most other ships benefit by sticking together. Defenders however are 'lone wolves'. They want space around them to keep their options open with those long 3 banks/turns and even the straights. I always spread them out and of course, always, always, ALWAYS think about your next planning phase (its so important to keep your movement options open ahead of time---nothing worse than having your 4 k-turn blocked by a rock or enemy ship because you didn't see that possibility a turn in advance...) Whatever you decide to fly, good luck with Defenders! They have a surprisingly steep learning curve, despite most people thinking that they are a straight-forward and 'predictable' ship...just remember, there is no such thing as 'predictable' ship/dial....there are only predictable players!
  13. Phantoms are plenty powerful. In fact, they are arguably the strongest ship in the Imperial faction (especially in conjunction with Juke---a talent that is so much of a force multiplier for imperials, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a point adjustment). As to the list itself, I think it is fine, although I have no idea what you mean by '(6) Cloak Device'. There is no such upgrade in 2.0 Personally, I am not entirely sold on Director Krennic in this list. I can see the benefit of optimized prototype coming up only rarely in this type of list, so it will be questionable as to whether you get good value out of it. Instead, I think I would prefer something like this: Whisper w/ Juke, Vader & Collision Detector (75) Sigma Ace w/ Juke, 0-0-0 & Collision Detector (58) Sigma Ace w/ Juke, Sloane & Collision Detector (65) 198 My reasoning is that it will mess with your opponent's targeting priority. Normally, they want to kill Whisper ASAP, but if they do, Sloane will trigger, so that may push an opponent to go after the Sloane-carrying Sigma first (which you can use to your advantage by staying in the rocks, trying to hug range 3, etc). Granted, I think getting the most out of this particular build will be more difficult and requires a much greater learning curve, but if you pull it off, you will have a unique list with interesting interactions that is both hard to use but hard to defeat once mastered.
  14. The list certainly has strong damage output potential, so there are definitely no concerns there. However, the list has a very obvious 'achilles heel': if whisper dies, you lose the ability to have any chance of beating high initiative and positional opponents like super Luke, sensor Guri or Soonts.
  15. I totally agree with your assessment of Trajectory, but the original list should have enough firepower to deal with problematically strong jousting lists. I think your Reaper suggestion is a good alternative to Sabaac, though (can act as a blocker too---very helpful against barrage rocket bombers).
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