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About ForceM

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  1. ForceM

    Meta-Wing is Back

    Well we have had a very defined meta with lots of "more of the same" top lists until now. Without meta wing in 2nd and with meta wing in 1st. So i can't see this changing anything about the situation. If anything it might show the game designers what is really being abused at a given moment. I mean we had squads in 1st that had such good stats that anyone looking at meta wing knew that they were fundamentally OP. Netlisting on the other hand happens since the net exists. Always. In any game that allows identical lists. And even before the net existed as a tool for that, people copied world champ lists already afaik. So i don't really see a negative side about meta wing quite honestly. Then only way i can see around this would be a game system like Keyforge has for example. Which is out of the question for X-Wing. The best that can be done is to perfect balancing more and more, so that lists depend on personal preference and skills rather than on power level of ships and upgrades. After all if you can win with anything, why not play what you really like instead of what you see being mandatory for success.
  2. They are a company and while not perfect, they have shown in the past that they are reasonable. When, they see how Hyperspace leads into a dead end, and that what they are trying now is going against a part of their customers, they will come to reason. Chances for this are even very good eventually.
  3. Exactly ^ So is this goung to be ANOTHER Hyperspace vs EXTENDED Thread? The title is clickbait, as i expected to see some funded reasons why the point cost adaptations will be bad, not Hyperspace>Extended yet again. It doesn’t help that certain bandwagoners now actively encourage FFG to take a huge dump on Extended. Mind you, Extended is where a large part of the old community sits, and 2.0 promised a balanced game. Expecting perfect balance is not realistic, but improving as much as humanly possible on Extended is what a lot of people still want and expect. Respect that, FFG!
  4. Thanks for this very interesting post. I was actually aware of WarmaHordes doing exactly this with their game. The big difference is that WarmaHordes has always been one of the best balanced TT games out there, and they still are making constant efforts to improve upon that. Oh yeah and FFG should take notes when it comes to their App. War Room is just hyperspaces (pun intended) ahead of our X-Wing App and shows what is possible in that area. That is actually a meta where you can put such a kind of rotational into place because it is: a) more easy to put new units into the game and to balance them against the current well balanced meta (not so much the case for X-Wing) b) you don’t have to go and apply special balancing measures to the rotational format because, again, your „Extended“ meta is so well balanced already that it’s just unnecessary. For X-Wing to reach this, they would need to balance Extended first, and then maybe think about Hyperspace. And i just find it excellent that you give the moon landing as an example for this. Because as Kennedy said: „We choose to go to the Moon...We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept,...“ Balancing a TT game correctly and not choosing the easy way out (hyperspace!) is not as difficult as going to the moon after all, so cmon FFG... put your balancing pants on and get over with it.
  5. Yeah, and Extended will be either ignored, or they need to make the double effort to get both balanced correctly and independently from each other. Which is much more difficult, making failure more likely. Both cases are just unacceptable!
  6. I see what’s going on in our local gaming club and LGS where most of the games take place. In our club, approx a quarter of the people say that they don’t like Hyperspace and won’t do training games for it. Most of them are really competitive players that have attended systems opens, regionals and so on. Nearly 3/4 of our players have cut expenses on X-Wing significantly. Some started this with 2.0, the rest because of Hyperspace being announced. In the LGS, regular tournaments are at an all time low (at the end of 1.0 we had approx 10-12 players, last time we had 8 for Extended), but the one that was tested in Hyperspace format cound not even reach the 6 required players and didn’t take place. (And i was actually one of the 3 that made an inscription, despite of what i said here, well, so much for „giving it a chance“...) I’ll admit that it’s not a significant sample size, but no, it’s not a mere gut feeling either. What i read from people here in the forum seems to support pretty much what i see in my area. There are some that want to play, and fully accept Hyperspace. But it’s still a significant part that does not agree, and we will in time see the consequences. If there is something i have learned from my long TT gamer career, it is that you can’t force something upon your playerbase. Look at Age if Sigmar as it was initially planned, with no point costs, so you could just put anything you want on the table etc. Or power levels to replace point costs in 40k to cite another GW example. AOS was only barely saved because they backpedaled A LOT and listened to their community. Power levels for their part are just widely ignored. Concerning the future of Hyperspace, i have asked multiple times in this forum if this will be a rotational format or if it’s a stopgap until everything is released. The answer was the same everytime. It’s here to stay and will be a sort of rotational game. That is what i don’t like about it because of the aforementioned bad consequences. If Hyperspace was just going to stay a few years until all was rereleased, i would be pretty fine with it. So i am willing to give them the time, but that is not what they are going to do.
  7. You can of course ignore all those that are unhappy here, me included, but even if everyone would shut up even here on the forum, it wouldn’t change that Hyperspace is highly controversial in the community. X-Wing as a game is shrinking as a consequence of this. I hope not to the point that it has to go out of business. If you read what i wrote earlier, you’d know that i think Hyperspace, if it is necessary, it is as a stopgap measure as long as they rereleased ships so that in the end Hyperspace=Extended. What it should not be is a rotational format. And what you, and FFG at the moment do is ignoring a good portion of the community that doesn’t like where this is going. Even if it was a minority, nothing good can come from this, game and businesswise...
  8. First, there are tournament players that are huge Star Wars Nerds (both Legends and Canon) and still want to be able to play all their ships in a competitive environment. Second, what they are doing with hyperspace is probably accomplishing the exact opposite of „getting people to buy more ships“. Whether you care or not, whether you like it or not. This is splitting the community quite heavily. While some accept this change, a good number do not, and will buy less, or worse (for everyone in the community, actually), turn their back on X-Wing. And at a much faster rate than it was the case even at the end of 1.0. New players are also rare as unicorns... so if it is about selling ships (which it is, on that you are right) Hyperspace is the wrong way.
  9. Yeah with Serissus ability combined, it would give you 2 dice to reroll if needed, at lesst once. That’s what i meant. Oh yeah, the timing on Marksmanship and HLC now work in a way where HLC is after modifications 😪. Juke is probably inferior to just focus on a one action ship. Lone Wolf works against Serissus ability, outmaneuver is really more expensive than i want to spend on a 43 point ship. leaves the go-to ability of the moment. Trick shot. After price changes we probably leave the slot just empty because no talent at all will be worth it anymore 😬
  10. Then maybe elusive for a second die to reroll, or marksmanship on her?
  11. So if i have to name some ships for myself: Norra Wexley in the Y-Wing. Not that much underrated, but keep her cheap and she will hammer 2 torps into your enemy and be hard to kill. Very point efficient. Ten Numb. Surprisingly cost-effective if kept cheap. If he was I5 he would be a top pick really. That Knife fighting capabilities come in handy very often though. Scum Han with the full asteroid shooting kit is known already, still underrated in my book though. Boba is just too good... Serissu might be okay if you protect more expensive ships with her. For the imperials, honestly there is not a lot that really went under the radar. They’re either super solid or super meh. For Resistance we can’t make a solid statement yer, but i like Ello Asty a whole lot. Cheap I5 with a very handy ability. No idea if it’s an underdog pick though. Vennie could also be strong for mitigating damage on a chassis that has lots of hitpoints For the FO, i have no clue what might be underrated. I don’t see anything.
  12. I agree on the X-Wings, especially Kullbee. On the Scyk not that much. Because you say it, it’s overcosted. And if they were underrated, they would not be overcosted... I have to say though, i have flown Serissu with HLC and predator. Now that she affects herself, i tried her with Guri and Fenn. I kept them together for a joust where her ability saved me a lot of hit points then fanned out. Her base cost is probably 2-3 ponits too high, but she can be very effective for less than 1/4 of your list.
  13. I can only applaud that. Because that’s what Hyperspace is. A lazy company refusing to further balance Extended. They will also ruin Extended while balancing hyperspace. Ships have different power levels in both metas, and when they balance ships and upgrades for Hyperspace, they will get a worse Extended balance. And to get back on topic, THAT is where i have a real problem with Hyperspace. Because it destroys the happy fairytale that both formats will coexist. Extended will suffer from this MTG copy paste dumpster of odd rotations that Hyperspace will be, and that’s why they won’t change my mind on it while going this road with it. WHAT they could do to make me happy with Hyperspace, is NOT DO ROTATIONS OR BANLISTS, but make it a true introductory format that ends when all old ships have been rereleased so that in the end Hyperspace=Extended. While this process is going on, they’d probably need different point costs for ships in both formats until they all get united in the end. I get Hyperspace from the standpoint that you have to make a format for new players (even if there are hardly any as far as i csn observe in my vicinity) so that they can have access to all the played ships. At the moment you can still easily get all old expansions for cheap and just play with conversion kits. But there might be a timr when this is not possible anymore. So therefore Hyperspace is necessary AS A STOPGAP MEASURE. To be clear, i have already started cutting my expemses on X-Wing as soon as i started to see this coming, some of my coplayers start wandering off already from X-Wing because of this mess, and if they start ruining Extended because of Hyperspace balance, i will be done with this too.
  14. ForceM

    BB-8 charges

    Yeah, agreed. They are comparable. But BB-8 takes up an astro slot which is a big thing, and both upgrades are on the rather pricey side for what they do. I don’t see Afterburners picked a whole lot. Maybe also because in general it is often more efficient to keep ships lean to be point efficient, unlike in 1.0
  15. ForceM

    BB-8 charges

    Even independently from the Supernatural Reflexes comparison, it does feel a bit overcosted. If we need to compare it to anything, i’d compare it to afterburners. Which costs the same but conditionally lets you reposition after moving as a free action, also with 2 charges. The thing is however that even Afterburners don’t see that much play, except maybe on Vader, and therefore seems overcosted as well. And in contrast to BB-8, Afterburners don’t take away a heavily contested Astromech slot either. There is nearly always a cheap useful astromech that you can fit in. And in Poe’s case one could argue for Black One plus R2 astro at also 8 points, for a pretty unmolested shield recharge. R3 or R4 also seem more viable on most Resistance pilots, and M9 does really cool things for cheaper than BB-8
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