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Everything posted by barn34

  1. Duncan and I had to bump our game to this week. Should be getting it in on Sunday.
  2. Ricky, is my reward for winning a game for my name to finally be spelled correctly? lol
  3. Agreed. Two dice thrusters doesn't get a lot of mileage. Better to let the little droid take it on the dome for you. integrated gets you a situational hit point. any time autothrusters triggers, it essentially does the same. i've been running 3 t-70s, all with autothrusters, and they've proven their worth every game. it rewards good fundamental play, keep the initial exchange at range 3 so they trigger, force range 3 on pursuits so they trigger. they also trigger against every (almost) tlt shot. for one more point than something that gets you more greens or for the same cost as the targetting astro, i'd take thrusters every single time and it's not even a question. integrated astro is definitely more for the t-65. the only situation i'd take IA over thrusters with t-70s is if i'm running 4 blue squad novices with r2s...and that's only because you don't have the points for thrusters then.
  4. ...and in the process of doing so you've turned them into 3 HP ships on 2 AGI with no shields which will die a horrible death. you'll probably lose 1 ship a turn, so yeah, the others are getting 3 dice attacks with a focus. again...on 2 AGI. if you seriously want to throw that many red dice with 5 ships at PS greater than 2 for tlt purposes, just grab 5 avengers and call it a day...
  5. Having been someone who's run Turr a lot since wave 2, unproductively so at times, the only case I can see for ever trying to argue for VI over PTL on Turr is for one of 2 corner reasons: 1) You absolutely can't find the extra 2 points in the list. VI Turr with Autothrusters is 28 pts. That could be an Academy TIE and Backstabber, just as an alternative example. Another easier alternative to see is just dropping down to a RGP with PTL and Autothrusters at 27 pts. That gains you 1 more point in list building. Not having PTL on an interceptor is very hard to argue for. There are also a lot of other PS9 options that are easier to argue for. 2) You want the option for pulling rebel captive stress there instead of having it forced on a Soontir/Vader/Whisper in non ideal situations. This is a little easier to understand. Rebel captive is a thing that's quite common and it can be really annoying when RC forces you to shut down your usual ace tactics. Having multiple pilots where you're able to alternate taking stress between is something that can be useful. Whisper hates RC because that shuts down the recloak after shooting. That's a big deal. Soontir is a bit easier to handle the RC because he get's the focus after taking the shot, but that also means he's not PTLing in the action phase. Being able to shirk the RC stress onto a different pilot in those nonideal situations can be very helpful. However, is a VI Turr the best way of doing that? RC screws up Turr's ability and if you're looking for a cheap PS9 to do so, maybe a VI Mithel would be easier. That's a whole 10 points cheaper for the only real loss is 1 attack die at ranges 2-3 and no access to autothrusters. I only mention it because it's technically an alternative to the same problem. These are some of the questions you should be asking if this is your thought process behind putting VI on Turr. Essentially, for both of those situations, you can make the case that you should be looking at other alternatives in your list construction because PTL on any interceptor is the optimum loadout. PTL on Turr goes above and beyond that normal utility when you're against anything PS7 or lower. Contrary to popular belief in this thread, you don't have to be PS9 to make the most out of his ability. PS7 is plenty high and PTL makes that abilty shine the brightest, without question. Plus, even if you're not trying to make use of his abilily because of a certain PS skill matchup, you still have access to PTL turtling. That's going to make you far more survivable to those usual threats than not having PTL tokens but being able to pop a free boost or barrell roll here or there.
  6. no....no they don't. plus, in this era, it wouldn't be thematic either.
  7. Yeah....that is not possible at all, at least legally. Opportunist only triggers off one of the cluster shots. You can't trigger opportunist if you're already stressed by the Glitterstim. (Almost more importantly, why would anyone run opportunist on N'Dru anyways?) In order to have set up the bump for Han to have been bumped by an enemy Z, and then N'Dru to still have a legal cluster shot (range 1-2 of the target) while his ability still triggered (outside range 1-2 of all friendly ships) is incredibly unlikely. Possible, yes, but you'd have to really have some ballsy confidence in your positioning skills to set that shot up perfectly. That's 3 likely ways this doesn't add up, at least within the realm of rules. If misplayed completely, yeah...even then that's very statistically unlikely. That's a perfect 5 for 5 on the first shot to completely strip the shields. Then AT LEAST a 4 crit situation on the second shot where all of the crits is either a direct hit or a minor explosion that also triggers the second damage. Sorry buddy, that's just not gonna happen unless you have a dice roll that has a 0.0244% chance at happening plus having the damage deck stacked perfectly in your favor where all those crits do double damage. Just pulling the simple solution of 4 consecutive direct hits has a likelihood of around 0.08%. So....yeah.... And you also mentioned that you only pulled 3 double damage crits, which means you should have had life left. 5 shields + 8 hull. You would have had 1 hull point left. Now, with all that said, I've been running N'Dru + Lonewolf + Cluster + Glitterstim for a while. That Cluster Missile attack is definitely awesome as all get out, for sure. I ran this plus 3 unhinged TLT Thugs at a small local event Labor Day weekend and proceeded to do 24 damage over the course of 4 games with those cluster missiles. Super awesome, but my goal in game 4 was to one shot a TLT Ywing, even knowing that was fairly statistically unlikely. I've dealt 7 damage twice (once on a Y, the other on a Miranda), but haven't achieved the full oneshot monty on anything with 8 HP yet. That's also with Lonewolf rerolls, plus the super focus from Glitterstim. Very potent and fun, but no way in hell are you ever going to one shot a Falcon with it. Cripple it? Yes, that's very possible. Destroy it? Not without the TLT support fire following up. Even that's gonna take a really good run of red dice to accomplish. Hell, not only that, but running Lonewolf well is one of the most difficult upgrades to run well. It takes a lot of skill to know how to keep that range from all your friendlies while still maintaining peak efficiency in the process. The TLT Thugs are the best way to do that and it's what gives my list potential.
  8. I'm really hoping this isn't the only thing in the works to address the T-65 and this just happens to be the one that is included with the T-70 that can cross over and more subtle things like this are going to filter into the game over the next few releases. My biggest issue with this is that in order to see any benefit, you're required to spend even more points on a ship that's already questionably costed. If it applied the same identical effect with even a 1 point discount on the cost towards the astromech to make it useful, I'd be more excited. It also takes up your mod slot. So, now you can't even take this, with a R2, EU, and PTL on someone like Wedge if you wanted to. Same thing with Poe and R5-P9 as it takes up the mod slot that's needed for Autothrusters. Definitely an interesting idea, but this seems extremely situationally effective when it comes to build synergy. Here's hoping this is just the tip of several small things to really allow T-65s to be utilized in many versatile ways. Now, if this opens up the design space for a lot of different and useful astromechs designed around various tweaks to how x-wings can be used, then this could be all sorts of awesome. I'm really hoping that's the direction they're headed here. For example, the R2 and R5 astromechs are obviously decent for this role because of their cost and provide different things. If we've got some new 0 cost astromechs that provide some very subtle tweaks, that'd be perfect. I know a 0-cost droid that allows the Xwing to barrell roll would be too much ask for. At a 1 or 2 point cost though? That's probably doable. What about a astromech that provides some type of synergy with target locking in a similar vein but not identical to FCS? (maybe that's what's coming with that new droid) What about a droid that gives you access to the evade action (obviously at a cost)? All of these can greatly differentiate how Xwings can be utilized in a list and I think would be very thematic and pair with this upgrade. Even if some/most of these astromechs would have to have 'Xwing only' as limiters, I think this would be a cool space to explore that simultaneously differentiates the Xwings from the other ships, but also keeps things very thematic and inline with how the ship should perform in the universe.
  9. My current favorite 21 point filler ship, for both scum and rebels is this: Gold Squad / Thug + Autoblaster Turret + BTL-A4 Title + R2 / Unhinged Astromech Basically, makes them range 1 death machines. Because of that, you fly them almost like kamikazes to get them right up into the thick of things make make your opponent try to get through 8 hit points before you're able to get your 5 dice range 1 salvo off on a target, with 2 of those being uncancellable hits because of the autoblaster turret. The astromech makes them deceptively agile on both fronts, but with a slightly different flavor on each side. The unhinged makes the overall dial better eliminating everything red except the k-turn. The R2 makes the dial much more effective at eliminating stress after the k-turn or the hard 3, or tactician, rebel captive, etc. It really allows you to fly more effectively looking for those range 1 opportunities. It's a super fun way to fly a Y wing. 2 of these guys have become my support of choice for 58 point Dash. Now, if you want to go nuts with an all Y wing build, here's what I would recommend: Gold Squad + Ion Turret + BTL-A4 + R3-A2 3x Gold Squad + Autoblaster Turret + BTL-A4 + R2 Astromech + 4 point options of Shield / Engine Upgrade or 2x Flachette Torps - You can also now update the Autoblaster Turrests to Twin Laser Turrets with those additional 4 points. -OR- 5x Gold Squad / Thug + Autoblaster Turret + BTL-A4 (have to sacrifice the droid so the dials are a bit more limiting, but you can now fit 5 into a list...that's 40 hit points of range 1 pain)
  10. The list I've put together to test out the Cobra is this: Eval + HLC + Outlaw Tech + Tactician + Bossk Thug + Autoblaster + Title + Unhinged Cobra + Lonewolf + Glitterstim Set up the 666 and the Y on one corner, Cobra on the other. Force your opponent to choose who to chase and who to let flank. Eval's big sweeping boomstick of death backed by focus every turn, minimum, and being able to stress with tactician should be a deterant enough to allow a Lonewolfed Cobra to get on the back lines and wreck face. Bossk is just the bonus handing out free target locks if the big gun happens to miss a slippery target on any one turn. The titled thug is perfect in this list as he's almost guaranteed to get ignored until his range 1 death volley makes them take notice (that's essentially 5 dice at range 1, 2 of them autoblastered). I think that you have to force your opponent to choose between trying to kill Cobra quickly (when he's backed by lonewolf on blanks and glitterstim if things look particularly hairy) or really put the hurt on the big cannon wielder. otherwise, any list where Cobra is the most threatening option will be priority target 1 every time and he's not built to survive that kind of sustained attention.
  11. I've seen Oicuun turned into a reverse Oicuun. Oicuun gets critted to lose his pilot ability. (injured pilot) Oicuun gets critted to take damage every time he bumps another ship. (stunned pilot) It was pretty **** amusing.
  12. yeah....that's a TIE Interceptor. Alpha Squadron Pilot + Autothrusters (x5) yep, that's as many 3 dice attack ships as you're going to get in 100 points.
  13. Really, other than a couple minor stat changes for certain ships and some quirky card costs for their abilities (ordinance being the biggest ones) most things can be fixed with future upgrades and abilities like they've been doing. However, the one thing that has bothered me completely, and still does, is the Millenium Falcon title. Really, what the Millenium Falcon title should provide is this: +1 Attack +2 Hull +1 Shield Action Bar gains the Evade Action That means that the stat lines and costs for the YT-1300 pilots should look like this: Outer Rim Smuggler PS1 (2-1-6-4) = 27 pts. Chewbacca PS5 (2-1-6-4) = 31 pts. Lando Calrissian PS7 (2-1-6-4) = 33 pts. Han Solo PS9 (2-1-6-4) = 35 pts. Which means that the Millenium Falcon title costs a substantial 12 pts. and is, of course, unique. Meaning, that there is only ONE Millenium Falcon in the universe and thus you don't have silly theme breaking lists with Chewie and Lando flying 2 tricked out Millemium Falcon-lites (only without the evade action ability but with the same boosted stat lines). The point equivalents remain the same as the current game, but you're only allowed 1 real Millenium Falcon, as it should be. If they ever made any type of ret-con fixes to this game, this is what I would want. Unfortunately, this would require 3 new pilot card prints, 1 new MF title card print, and 3 new prints for the equivalent cardboard bases which means that a fix like this is almost a complete impossibility. Still, this is the one thing I would applaud to see changed.
  14. I have built lists around VI turr flying wingman with PTL Soontir since they dropped in wave 2. going from 7 to 9 used to not be as big of a deal, and thus PTL became prefferred on Turr if I could find 2 more points in my list. now, with autothrusters on the horizon and PS9 being more of a big deal for soaking rebel captive stress off Soontir, VI+autothrusters will by my 3 pts. of upgrades spent on Turr. as many have mentioned, this is a bit meta specific as if there isn't as much ps8 or 9 or rebel captive, then you'd be better off with PTL and shaving 2 points off your list elsewhere.
  15. like what? a shield upgrade? oh wait, isn't that the same HP savings as just one evade token? oh, and you potentially get that over the course of multiple rounds, you say? and, it combos with EI or PTL shenanigans? let me guess, you're one of those people who think C3PO sucks on the falcon, too...
  16. Imp Kath with mangler cannon, lonewolf, and tactician may have enough special tricks in her bag to sway you back...
  17. This is really bizarre, but I put together almost that exact same list while messing around with 50 pt. squad ideas for an upcoming charity tournament. I run Soontir a lot, so in any smaller point limit situation, he was my initial go-to. My favorite build pre-autothrusters is PTL+TC leaving 18 pts remaining which was perfect for Mithel+VI. Seemed like a cool, PS9, no-brainer way for me to go for the unique tourney, but then I started to think up interesting alternatives since I never think in a 50 pt design space. Starting with the ever efficient 24 pt. Doomshuttle, I realized that Turr+VI could be a very fun 26 pt. yin to it's yang. I then figured, why not smash those two 50 pt. lists together? I can't believe I never thought of connecting those squad pt. blocks before now since I've flown a lot of Soontir+Turr combos a bunch. Looking forward to using it as a fun, casual build because I'm pretty sure the turret heavy meta will melt this pretty fast in a tournament setting, especially with no room for autothrusters or an initiative bid.
  18. There are currently 5 large ships out. Of those 5, 3 have turrets and 1 has a secondary arc... 1 out of 5 that have to use their front arc to do anything is hardly what I'd consider "almost every other large ship" Falcon (turret), Lambda (no turret), Outrider (turret), Firespray (half-turret), Decimator (turret). That is indeed every other large ship, sir. barn34 already responded that he hadn't meant to have the word "large" in there. He's since edited the post that Vanor is responding to. That line now reads: Thanks. *virtual bro fist*
  19. There are currently 5 large ships out. Of those 5, 3 have turrets and 1 has a secondary arc... 1 out of 5 that have to use their front arc to do anything is hardly what I'd consider "almost every other large ship" lol. fair enough. that was intended to be just almost every other ship in the game. mental mindcramp. hence, fixed. lol
  20. well, you're actually going to have to try and use that forward facing arc that almost every other ship has to worry about to do anything. *gasp* i know this will be a foreign concept to many, but i guess it's finally time for you to have to adapt and evolve... stress and ion mechanics with the rest of the list could also help.
  21. Scum will most likely get the Hound's Tooth as one, I'm guessing. Figure the size roughly of the rebel transport packaged with a variant paint firespray maybe?
  22. barn34

    "OP" Ships

    Actually the answer to that is pretty clear... The Cloak action is worth a lot more than that. Not to speak of Systems, Crew and all you forgot. And as we know Sigmas are not the problem (although even they offer fantastic value!), it's the named Phantoms! I mentioned this above, but those upgrade slots shouldn't come at a premium just because the options for them are currently far superior than the options on the xwing. now, if it had those in addition to other upgrades, that's obviously a different story. it's just swapping astromech for crew and torpedo for systems. apples to oranges comparison, but they are different ships filling different roles, after all. Regarding the cloak action, I was basically agreeing that option does add additional cost-value and should be taken into account. What that cost should be is what I'm not sure of. On a naked Sigma, I was just saying that everything seems to be somewhat close to appropriate cost, but I could easily see 26 pts. being the Sigma base cost and that'd be fine, too. It's really what the advanced cloaking device allows the high PS pilots to do. That's really it. Garven (26) vs. Whisper (32) - additional 2 point bump in squad cost over the established base 4 because the ability is superior on Whisper. Biggs (25) vs. Echo (30) - here, an additional 1 pt bump in base difference based on the ability premium. Really, everything there looks completely fine, base cost wise. it's when you combine either named Phantom with 1 specific card where the cost/value equation takes an upward turn... That card is obviously the advanced cloaking device modification. Essentially, becomes a 4 pt. auto include on both pilots as long as you're also using VI in their EPT slot. That 5 pt. combo takes up both those upgrade slots, but is the most efficient and valuable way to use those 5 squad points on each ship, unquestionably. Now, I would say the 4 pt advanced cloak is perfectly costed on the shadow and the sigma. It's not cheap, at all, but gives you some nice unique options as long as you can keep them alive long enough to get that free recloak. Obviously, there's more value out of those 4 pts on Shadows than Sigmas because of the PS boost, but you're also paying a 2 pt premium for that 2 pts in PS. That cost-value gets really tilted when you're now talking about PS9 and 8. It's a tricky card to cost balance, for sure, because it's real value is tied directly to that ship's PS value. The only other card in the game that I can think of that's in the same boat is Stay on Target, which is only 2 pts, but has a lot of restrictions and consequences on how and when it can be used, as well. Now, do I think that combination needs a 'nerf'? Not at all. The game has evolved over the last 5 waves. There are new threats, new tricks, and new toys in every faction's toy box. Does it kind of suck that we're stuck in a bit of a frustrating spot, meta wise, with the current list of toys where a lot of things are driven towards turrets? Of course. However, what I really like about the way this game is evolving is how each ship is getting upgrades that are specialized to them, which increase that cost-value equation and make them better, while also keeping that individuality - even enhancing that. The Awing has a lot of nice options to play with now, keeping it very distict, but versatile. The Bwing has more options with the ability to field crew slots and differentiates it's potential role and keeps it very distinct. The Ywing is about to get a lot of cool options to specialize and differentiate it further. The TIE Advanced - the perrenial red-headed step child of Xwing since wave 1, now has updates on the way which really bring it back into play, yet keep it very different than everything else. TIE Interceptors are now getting access to Autothrusters, which pair perfectly with their already established ship title of offering double mods, to bring them a way to deal with some of the new toys. The 1 ship that needs something is the Xwing. It doesn't need much, but it needs something. Something distinct, yet versatile, which is thematic for the ship that should be the staple rebel squad building block. I predict that will come in a "XJ Series" title card of some kind that will allow them some unprecedented versatility. Modification cost reduction, perhaps? Couple that with some new mods that synergize with them? More astromechs? Refit-like mod for the Torpedo slot that boosts agility? I don't know, there's a lot of options. Regardless, if the Xwing gets new toy(s) that allow it a more versatile way to help with Phantoms, that will help further diversify the squads you'll see on tournament tables for the rebel player.
  23. barn34

    "OP" Ships

    You are forgetting to add in the cost for the Phantoms crew and system slots. Neither of those are free when costing a ship. And I think the increase from 3 to 4 attack should be costed more like the HLC rather than Expose or opportunist, more than 4 points for sure. You could probably call the Xwings Astromech slot and the Phantom system slot a wash, but you can't ignore the crew slot, that is worth at least 1 + the modification opportunity cost (Bwing E2 title). When comparing the Sigma with the Rookie, ask yourself in a vacuum, which ship would your rather take to the fight. 90% of the time the correct answer is the Sigma, it's just flat out a better ship. Choices that closely costed should be much more difficult. ok, that's fair and that's what I was trying to point out with the upgrades. you've got crew instead of astromech, system instead of torpedo. both of those are more valuable on the phantom in a vaccuum, but still very different. the reason those slots are more valuable though, is because the cost-value of what you can put in those slots currently is better, not really the worth of the slots themselves. this can easily swing back to value nuetral with new droids or upgrades that take better advantage of the torpedo slot or whatever. the value difference actually comes down to the current options between those slots, not the slots themselves. that'd be my arguement, anyways. you don't want to cost penalize something just because the current options are slightly off balance that you have to pay additional cost for anyways. i do get what you're trying to say though. the HLC-ish cost of the attack die upgrade I can see, but there are still additional positives that way, as well. so, split the difference, and say the value of not taking stress or reducing agility is another point or point and a half? that now puts it cost neutral now with the only thing not figured in is the cloak ability cost. That ability kind of has it's own self nerf in that it doesn't allow you to attack for that round and also takes your action to do it - so no dice mods on the roll. then gives the positional advantage the following round. pros and cons on both sides of that coin evening it out. still, it's an aditional abilty that should cost something, for sure.
  24. barn34

    "OP" Ships

    Just a real quick generalized Rookie vs. Sigma Xwing math problem: Rookie = 21 pts. - 3 (Subtract a hull upgrade) - 2 (Subtract a targetting computer) + 1 (Add the cost of the ability to use the evade action - cost equivalent is the MF title card which does just that for the yt1300) + 2 (ability to barrell roll - closest cost equivalent is the expert handling EPT, although this doesn't create stress...) + 4 (ability to roll an additional attack die - closest cost equivalents are expose and opportunist which allow you to do that and are both 4 pts, although this doesn't have either of those negative effects of stress or agility reduction...) + .5 (for 1 pt. in pilot skill - cost equivalent of half of the VI boost of 2 PS for 1 pt.) Sigma = 23.5 pts. (doesn't account for the additional cloak action ability and the lack of negative impacts of barrell roll and attack die boost - so the real question is, how much is that worth? do you feel that's worth more than 1.5 pts? that cost-value question is a good one.) Personally, I think the base Phantom is costed pretty spot on. Maybe you can make the arguement it may be a point undercosted so the base Sigma should be 26 instead of 25. That may also be splitting hairs. I have no problems with the 25 pt. base, at all. Now, the real question of cost vs. value comes from the upgrades...and that's where it becomes a lot different to guage real vs. perceived value.
  25. barn34

    "OP" Ships

    I get what you're trying to say, but that's the nature of the game, right? Each ship is different and capable of playing a much different role. What's the balancing act between them? Cost. Squad point cost. A naked PS2 Rookie X-wing is 21 pts. A naked PS3 Sigma is 25 pts. Is 4 pts. enough for 1 extra attack dice, evade action, barrel roll action, 1 point of PS? Well, probably not, but it is a bit different when you also reduce it's hull value by 1 making it more fragile. I think what you're really having to look at is function vs. cost. How much do you pay for that ability relative to something else. I look at the effectiveness of every card and ship in the same way. Is it worth the ability for the cost to your squad? That's why TIE Advanced were looked at as inferior until the new raider updates were announced. Now, it's back up to par with a lot of other options and also keeps it unique and role defining that's different. The base X-wing is most likely next, to give it that ever so slight nudge up to put it back in the forefront of rebel squad building while still keeping it different enough that it doesn't eclipse another role another ship plays in the context of the game (XJ Series Title is coming, I'm sure). Autoblasters are looked at as a 'bad' card purely because of the 5 pt. cost hit. If it was only a 1 or 2 pt. upgrade, it'd be looked at much more fondly and used far more often. All that's needed to give that card a game context use is another combo card that puts it at a cheaper cost hit for a specific ship or a cheaper cost by sacrificing another upgrade option (similar to the refit for the A-wing which lowers cost by sacrificing the missile slot). Cost is the main thing that should be questioned here. C3PO is another example that can be called out just as easily as everyone likes to jump on the Phantom. You cannot find a more ridiculously efficient use of 3 squad points than C3PO. It's kind of laughable by comparison. At least the Phantom builds that everyone considers 'OP' are somewhere around 40 pts. of your 100 pt. squad. If you're paying that much, you should get a lot of value out of that cost. Some can argue that you get more than your 40ish pts. worth, and that's why it's 'OP'. That's a valid arguement. The cost. Not the functionality. That's the point I'm trying to make. Now, they can't do anything to errata the cost and make Phantoms more expensive. What they can do, is continue to make upgrades and modifications and other things (similar to the X1 title, and autothrusters) that allow the cost-function balance to re-level. That's already well underway with all the scum stuff and the new advanced toys.
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