Cards that don't look amazing but are

[Cards that don't look amazing but are]

Badmojojojo said:

agnos said:

 

Honestly, I think It Binds All Things is one of the best and most skill intensive cards to play.  You really have to be thinking about when and how to play that card.

 

 

I disagree on that card.  It only works on the top 1 or 2 cards and does not net you a card advantage for such a high cost.  I think Return of the Jedi is better. 

But that's just the thing, by restricting it to the top (two) card(s), you prevent it from becoming too abuseable while still allowing one of the most powerful effects in the game. You have a lot of control over the top of your discard pile, and while you can do things like "use Yoda in an edge battle and get him back," it is the only Light Side card that allows you to recover events (Extra Jedi Mind Trick? Swindled? Rebel Assault? Yes please!) and the only card in the game that can pull Fate cards out of the discard pile. I also personally consider Jedi Training a better objective set than Last Minute Rescue, but that's debatable.

[Your Top Core Decks]

Xenu's Paradox said:

You're running 2 Imperial Navy cards in a Sith deck? That's a good way to get stuck with unplayable cards.

If you're running a splash like that, it's best to use the splash as your faction card to ensure that you always have a resource match for it.

That said, I actually run almost the exact same deck, but I use 2x The Bespin Exchange instead of Defense Protocol. Boba Fett is a beast.

While true, it's not quite as frequent a problem as you'd think - Defense Protocol will come up as one of your starting objectives in 2 out of every 3 games. The problem is more that while Defense Protocol has a great ability, the command cards are pretty terrible for a Sith deck. I'd much rather have Shadows of Dathomir or Reconaissance Mission, or if I must use a Navy objective, Death and Despayre or Imperial Command…and I'd still use the Navy affiliation card.

Right now I'm using the decks from the mini-site, they're actually a lot of fun to play. That is:

Imperial Navy
2 Fall of the Jedi
1 Counsel of the Sith
2 The Emperor's Web
2 The Ultimate Power
2 Death and Despayre
1 Reconnaissance Mission

and

Smugglers and Spies
2 The Defense of Yavin 4
2 Mission Briefing
2 Fleeing the Empire
2 The Rebel Fleet
2 Questionable Contacts

The Dark Side deck is a heavy control deck that uses the standard Sith removal package (Fall, Web) plus a little extra card advantage in a singleton Counsel alongside the most powerful threats the Navy can field. Build resources, use removal to lock down the Light Side's threats, then crush the rebellion in one swift stroke.

The Light Side deck has shades of control as well, using Han "shot first" Solo, Rebel Assault, and Heavy Blaster Emplacement to keep the Empire's forces at bay, and a healthy dose of Tactics icons (including several that aren't edge-dependent) to clear the way for a fleet of Y-Wings to take out Dark Side objectives quickly - two unopposed Y-Wings take out anything short of Heart of the Empire.

[Simple Solution?]

RendTheHeavens said:

well I agree, it can't be like SWccg. But being able to attack  a space ship with a simple charter and vise versa seems almost like a mistake.

The problem, which has been one in every Star Wars card game that has done so, is that dividing the theaters discourages interaction. Seperating even just Air and and Ground units, while improving the simulationism of the game, causes the gameplay to suffer. Allowing all units to interact regardless of their characteristics is a necessary abstraction to encourage interaction in the conflict phase of the game, which is when it's most important right now.

 

[Dark Side build overpowered?]

shaggscoob said:

Well, after MUCH testing (probably around 40 games now), I have to say that the jedi mains + Han deck is the best counter.  It won about 85% of the time once I had it dialed in.  Definitely a powerful deck.  Actually, I'm now looking for the DS counter to it.

In an effort to keep this going (getting a lot of good discussion and feedback in this thread), does anyone have any thoughts on how to consistently counter the luke, han, obi-wan, shielders style of deck?  It's really pretty solid.  I threw in the OS that provides the free force icon for winning the force struggle, that seemed to really cover all the bases.

The Emperor's Web is a great objective for this - Emperor Palpatine can lock down an entire Light Side offensive on his own, and Force Lightning doesn't care that you're shielded or that you've got Protect Character defending you, if you've got a Focus token, you're destroyed. Force Choke, of course, is always excellent, particularly if you're also running Fall of the Jedi and thus have 4 copies alongside 2 Darth Vader. And Emperor's Royal Guard is almost as good at keeping your important Character units alive as Guardian of Peace…better, honestly, seeing as LS lacks direct removal outside of Swindled.

[Tournaments]

But weren't you just complaining that the second game would be perverted because the goal becomes to "not lose as badly?" As your example shows, the prestige point system solves that problem - your hypothetical undefeated player won 4 of 8 games he played, while the victor won 6 of his 8 games. While the undefeated player never lost a match, the player who actually won more of his games won the tournament, giving you incentive to win as many games as you can, rather than doing the bare minimum to secure a match win.

[Trench Run]

If we can step back for a moment and not attack one another please? It's a freaking card game. An awesome card game, but a card game.

Now. It is obvious that the intent of the card is that the Death Star Dial can be engaged and take damage from the engagement as if it were an objective card. It is obvious that the intent of the card is that the Death Star Dial cannot be the target of effects that target an objective, as it is not an objective. It is questionable if the intent of the card is to have effects that refer to the "engaged objective" apply to the Death Star Dial or not. These are the premises that no one is arguing.

The question is similar to effects like Fleet Command Center and Fleeing the Empire. The intent of those cards was obviously that the end of your refresh step, you could put a shield on a target unit/objective. However, as the rules are currently written, those cards have ultimately no effect despite the intent of the effect being clear.

The argument being set forth is the same. If, rules as written, the Death Star Dial is unaffected by effects such as Target of Opportunity, then it stands to reason that, rules as written, the Death Star Dial is also unaffected by a unit's blast damage icons. The intent of Trench Run is irrelevant to this argument, in the same way the intent of Fleet Command Center is irrelevant. As the rules stand, if the text "it is not an objective" prevents it from being damaged by the effect of Target of Opportunity, the logical conclusion is that the same text prevents it from being damaged by the blast damage icons of a unit during an engagement.

Yes, this conclusion is clearly against the intent of the card. But if Target of Opportunity cannot affect the Death Star Dial because it refers to the "engaged objective" in its rules text, it follows that blast damage icons, which also refer to the "engaged objective" in the rules do not afffect the Death Star Dial either. That is the argument being made.

[Tournaments]

ScottieATF said:

The risk is to great because if you lose the game, and thus earn a 0 for a tie-breaker, you've conceded the whole round.  As your opponent would have to be completely dominated in return, to the point of scoring not a single objective for you to just even the score.  I mean it isn't hard for the LS to kill one objective even if soundly beaten in a straight up game, but in a game where they knew all they had to do was take one?  Just keep attacking out regardless of how open it leaves you because you only need on objective.

The second game under such a system will be completely perverted.  It will not be about atttempting to win the game, it is only about losing it not as bad.  That is going to lead the savy player into doing some stupid stuff that will gain in the short term but hand the game to thier opponent, because they don't need to try and win the game at all.  The tournament rules for a card game should not change the game that much.

If you lose the game. Only having to inflict 10 damage to win is such a massive advantage that if you can start swinging at Heart or the Death Star on turn 1, it is far more likely that you'll win the game than playing it normally. What I will concede that it does is narrow the window during which attacking Heart and the Dial are viable, but at least in the case of Trench Run, it's still got 2 Force icons for the Edge battle, making it one of the Rebel Alliance's better edge cards.

Additionally, to win the match on tiebreakers, you must do better than your opponent did while actively trying to win the match. If you win as the Light Side player with the dial at 8, you still must play well enough to advance the dial to 9 or higher. If you win as the Dark with two destroyed objectives, you must win the game outright to win the match.

Finally, looking at Netrunner's prestige system, which is very likely to be implemented in Star Wars, winning a match 2-0 gives you 6 prestige, while winning 1-1 on tie breakers only gives you 4, and affords your opponent 2. If you're actively trying to win the tournament (which you ought to be, if you're a savvy tournament player), then it is in your best interests to win every game in the match.

[Tournaments]

stormwolf27 said:

So, what you're saying is that the only way to play trench run or go up against heart of the empire is to attack only that, and nothing else? Why would you do that anyway? you get up to 3 attacks per turn (4 or more with trench run, as it's still not clear whether you can attack the DS dial multiple times in a turn, since the card specifically states after saying you can engage it as though it were an objective that it is, in fact not an objective), so why would you just doing 2-5 (being generous) damage to one objective and call it quits for the turn? People im my meta who use trench run will go after other objectives too, and just because they look across the board and see heart of the empire, that doesn't become their only target either. Trench run and Heart are special win conditions that are outside the norm, so why should we make special exceptions for things that aren't within the foundation win conditions? (also, I should note that, even with several LS players using trench run and several DS players having heart out on the table, this did not negatively effect the matches).

Basically, yes. The entire advantage of attacking Heart of the Empire or the Death Star Dial is that you reduce the amount of total damage that you need to deal to win. Yes, you could engage multiple objectives in a turn, but focusing all of your damage on Heart or the Dial makes the most of your advantage in playing it.

That being said, I disagree that Trench Run becomes useless - it still reduces the damage you need to deal from on average 15 to 10. If your opponent opens Heart of the Empire, or you with Trench Run, it's still worth targeting them.

[Dark Side build overpowered?]

…how are the Viper Probe Droids effective, again? They are totally useless on defense, have blast damage active only if they win edge, die to a stiff breeze, and are overcosted to compensate the ability to play them out of the discard pile.

That being said, if they're reserving cards in hand to play in edge battles, then they're not building up a trooper army. If they're not building up a trooper army, swarming them in return (X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing…) makes the edge battle almost irrelevant. (Sure, your one Stormtrooper Elite has 3 unit damage, but it can only kill one of my units.)

Also, you've mentioned the deck wins edge battles simply by having a lot of cards in hand. Twist of Fate massively punishes a deck relying on sheer numbers to win the edge, especially in a deck that has Jedi support. One good Twist of Fate, and you can cripple your opponent.

[Dark Side build overpowered?]

For reference, the deck posted:

Affiliation: Imperial Navy
Objective Sets (10)
2 Imperial Command
2 The Ultimate Power
1 The Endor Gambit
2 Take Them Prisoner
1 Looking For Droids
1 Corporate Exploitation
1 Reconnaissance Mission

…okay, first of all, the deckbuilder in me cries at using the nearly completely useless Looking for Droids over a second copy of The Endor Gambit. Seriously. There's no reason to use Looking for Droids in a one-affiliation deck. Ever.

That being said, how is your opponent dumping a bunch of units and resource generators onto the board and keeping enough cards in hand to win the edge battle on defense?

That being said, the deck seems to be mostly focused on taking out your units through attrition in conflict…so don't give them the chance. Rebel Assault outright destroys any unit that isn't an AT-ST, and it can even wreck one of those with Han's reaction or a Heat of Battle. Heavy Blaster Emplacement is a free 1 damage every turn, more if you can get a Battlefield Engineer out with it. A Jedi deck will find winning the edge (and the Force) much easier with cards like Ancient Monument, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Yoda, and death by attrition is much harder to do with Guardian of Peace on the board…not to mention Jedi Mind Trick locking down a unit before it can strike, and potentially putting it out of commission for an extra turn.

There are weaknesses in the deck. Exploit those to the fullest.

[Balancing odd numbers of objective sets]

I can't say I run into your requirement for aesthetic balance myself, though it's always nice when it turns out that way. Generally I find whatever my weakest objective set is and cut a copy of that to add Hit and Run or Reconaissance Mission. Unless the deck truly doesn't need it.

[A Dark Time - Hoth Cycle Pack Three]

MarthWMaster said:

D.Knight Sevus said:

 

I'm not sure how I feel about Battle of Hoth yet. In or against a Hoth deck, it's almost a strictly superior Target of Opportunity.

 

 

Not if you're attacking a non-Hoth player…

Which is why I said almost. Even then, you still get to heal 1 damage from one of your Hoth objectives, and have both an extra Force icon and priority over Target of Opportunity.

[quick rancor question]

Relevant card text:

Forced Reaction: After you refresh, destroy the lowest cost non-Vehicle unit in play. (In case of a tie, the active player decides.)

This means, during your refresh phase, after you've removed 1 focus token from each card you control, you must destroy the lowest cost non-Vehicle unit in play. During your oppnent's refresh phase, you do not refresh your cards, so the Forced Reaction of Rancor will not trigger. However, even if Rancor is exhausted after you refresh, the Forced Reaction will trigger.

[A Dark Time - Hoth Cycle Pack Three]

I'm not sure how I feel about Battle of Hoth yet. In or against a Hoth deck, it's almost a strictly superior Target of Opportunity.

[Edge battle question; Who wins in this rather sticky situation?]

As evidenced by the two distinctly different answers you've gotten, this isn't very well explained in the rules.

My understanding of the rules is as follows. If, after the declare defenders step, the defending player declares no defenders, the engagement is unopposed and the attacker automatically wins the edge battle.

However, once the edge battle begins, it will be fully resolved, regardless of what units remain after the Fate cards are resolved. In this case, the Dark Side will win the edge, but be unable to focus a unit to strike and be forced to pass priority back to the Light. The attacking Light Side units will focus to strike one at a time, but will not gain the benefit of any edge-dependent combat icons.

Also note that the Dark Side player could have defending units come into play after the edge battle, such as Backstabber and Human Replica Droid, in which case they would get to strike first and would have the benefit of their edge-dependent icons.

[Decks built from 1 core set]

If you're building with only 1 Core Set and you don't mix affiliations, you have precisely 1 deck per affiliation available. Your 7 sets from your affiliation, Rumors at the Cantina/Looking for Droids (which is useless without mixing), Tribal Support/Corporate Exploitation, and Hit and Run/Reconaissance Mission.

But if you're going to mix affiliations, you should try to look for synergies where you can.

As an example for the Light Side:
Mission Briefing and In You Must Go both really like Enhancements, though for different reasons.

Jedi cards tend to care about Character units, and Mission Briefing, Fleeing the Empire, Draw Their Fire, and Questionable Contacts all contain powerful Characters.

Similarly, Rebel Alliance cards really like Vehicle units, and A Journey to Dagobah and Last Minute Rescue both offer powerful Vehicles, though sadly Redemption is another card that cares about Character units, and Last Minute Rescue is honestly mostly Character focused.

If I were to try to build with just one Core Set, my Light Side deck might look something like this.

Affiliation: Smugglers and Spies

Objective Sets (10):
1 A Hero's Journey
1 In You Must Go
1 Forgotten Heroes
1 The Secret of Yavin 4
1 Last Minute Rescue
1 Mission Briefing
1 Fleeing the Empire
1 Draw Their Fire
1 Questionable Contacts
1 Rumors at the Cantina

Unless I horribly messed up my math, you should have access to all of your cards in roughly 23 out of 25 games. The idea is to gather powerful Character units and protect them through cards like Lightsaber Deflection, C-3PO, Redemption, and Guardian of Peace, and augment them with Enhancements and Events like Trust Your Feelings, Double Strike, and Force Rejuvenation. You also have a number of units with Tactics combat icons, which if you can win the edge to use them, lets you manipulate combats and even entire Dark Side turns in your favor. It's not as straightforward as either of the starter decks, but seems like it could be very potent.

[Decks built from 1 core set]

dbmeboy said:

Hans Chung-Otterson said:

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm trying to learn principles, though, so: why is 50/50 a bad idea?

 

 

5/5 is bad because it's too easy to end up with all of your objectives matching your affiliation card, making half of your deck unplayable.  Even when you have 1 off-affiliation objective out you'll have a mismatch between the cards you want to play and the resources available.  Even 6/4 can be problematic, but better.

I actually want to challenge this.

If you use a 5/5 split, the chance of you drawing no objectives of your secondary affiliation is 5/10 x 4/9 x 3/8 x 2/7, which is 120/5040, which simplifies to 1/42. You will, on average, be resource-screwed in 1 of 42 games, or about 2.4% of all games you play.

A 6/4 split gives you a chance of 4/10 x 3/9 x 2/8 x 1/7, which is 24/5040, or 1/210. One in over 200 games, less than one-half of one percent.

Even if you were to say be crazy and run a 4/6 split, your chance of being resource-screwed in the initial draw is 6/10 x 5/9 x 4/8 x 3/7, which is 360/5040 or 1/14, a less than 8% chance.

Even in the absolute worst circumstance, where you only have 1 objective out of 10 that produces resources of your secondary affiliation, you only have a 60% chance that you won't see it in your opening draw, meaning that you'll see that one objective in two out of every five games.The mechanics of selecting your starting resources make two-affiliation decks very stable in this game.

I will concede the point that resource matching makes it difficult to play multiple cards of a single affiliation in one turn, but the units you want to spam with (Vehicle units) tend to be neutral, and the Sith, Imperial Navy, and Rebel Alliance affiliations all have methods to generate more resources that match their affiliation - especially the Imperial Navy.

I submit that the strength of a 6/4 split comes more from the fact that it lets you run two copies of all of your objectives rather than the stability of its resource base, and that if an objective set is worth running one copy of, it's usually worth running both. But a 5 primary/4 secondary/1 neutral split is just as viable if you want to run one of the limited objectives.

[Benefit of capturing cards?]

dbmeboy said:

*snip*

I guess the difference for me is that all LS decks will be designed to destroy objectives while only some of them can use RotJ.

While that's true, but by playing on your terms, I mean specifically this:

As a Light Side player, if I see my opponent flip over The Emperor's Web, my first priority is to destroy that objective, unless I have a Trench Run or they also flip over The Heart of the Empire. Web is not only the squishiest Dark Side objective, but also one that makes Sith Control that much more efficient. Now, if suddenly one of my critical cards is captured at a different objective, say Cruel Interrogations, I have to make the choice to either prioritize the capturing objective or play without that card, neither of which are really to my benefit. And if I do have the Trench Run, committing to the Trench Run means I forfeit the captured card.

Capturing right now isn't really about denying your opponent their card, but controlling the priorities of the Light Side player, and as a control player, that's a very potent ability. Try viewing and playing with it through that lense.

[Benefit of capturing cards?]

dbmeboy said:

LMKComaBlack said:

 

Another upside of capturing is avoiding hitpoints.  To kill a major unit, you may have to dig through 4 or 5 HP to drop it to the discard pile, and it may not even stay there.  This would take some focus fire, a window for healing if they are Jedi, and possibly more than one conflict.  One wound from Boba Fett and the card is gone until (if) it gets rescued.

 

 

That would be a much bigger concern if such a unit existed.  However, the biggest LS characters have only 3 HP (Luke and Obi-Wan).  The only LS unit (not even limited to characters) that has more than 3 HP is the Redemption at 4 HP, and it can't be captured by Fett or Detained but just by the 2 objectives since they grab cards from hand or command deck.  Capturing stops Return of the Jedi shenanigans, but other than that destroying a unit deals with it better than capturing it (because capture has a built-in way to rescue the unit).  I really see it as a theme that could be expanded upon in the future and be pretty good, but right now I don't think it's really living up to its potential.

While yes, there is a built-in way to rescue the captured cards, that built-in method is to destroy the objective those cards are captured at, something a defensive Dark Side deck should excel at preventing. Destroying the unit is more permanent if your opponent isn't playing the Jedi recursion cards, but capturing important cards forces the Light Side to play on your terms.

[LS: Jedi-based control]

I do like Secret of Yavin 4, between 3PO, Lightsaber Deflection, and Guardian of Peace, it's almost tailor-made to frustrate Sith decks. I'll try Secret over Fleeing the Empire.

[LS: Jedi-based control]

I know dbmeboy ran a Community Deck-Building project where the end result was a Jedi deck splashing Smugglers and Spies for tactics abuse, but after playing with the deck, I just found it lacking compared to the base-Rebels decks I've played, including a Rebel Control splashing Smugglers and Spies constructed by FFG themselves. However, I know there's a solid control skeleton in Jedi somewhere, and I think I've thrown something together that I think might just work.

Affiliation: Rebel Alliance

Objectives (10):
2 A Hero's Journey
2 Forgotten Heroes
2 Jedi Training
2 Mission Briefing
2 Fleeing the Empire

Forgotten Heroes and Jedi Training form the core of the deck, providing four of the very powerful Jedi Mind Trick, and six Force Users for triggering Forgotten Heroes' reaction between them. Jedi Training also helps you passively hold the Force through the objective itself and Ancient Monument. From there, A Hero's Journey rounds out the Jedi objectives, mostly for giving access to Luke, but Trust Your Feelings, the Jedi Lightsaber, and Dagobah Training Grounds are all appreciated.

From there, Mission Briefing justifies choosing the Rebel Alliance as my affiliation, and continues to be potentially the best Light Side objective set in the game. Between the extra draw, Heavy Blaster Emplacement, and Battlefield Engineers, Mission Briefing gives everything a control deck could possibly want. Finally, I went with Fleeing the Empire to round out the deck. Sacrificing Leia on a critical turn can end the game in one massive assault or cripple an offense by the Dark Side attacking while they thought you defenseless, and the objective set grants even more draw in the form of Stolen Plans and You're My Only Hope.

Anyways, the game plan is just as simple as my earlier Rebel deck, if a little harder to pull off - gain control of the Force, systematically shut down the Dark Side's offense, and win the game in the course of one or two explosive turns.

[Simple Question about SW: The Card Game]

Sort of a hybrid. Like Munchkin, any of Fantasy Flight's LCGs have a completely non-random distribution. You buy the Core Set, and you get the entire core set. However, you still construct a deck from your collection of cards and the game plays similar to a traditional Trading Card Game.

["Play from your hand" effects]

Relevant rules text, p. 27 of the rulebook.

Put into Play
A card that is "put into play" is placed in the play area designated by the card text at no resource cost and ignoring any play limitations.

Since the game makes a distinction between "play" and "put into play," for the former you must perform all necessary steps as if you were playing the card normally during your Deployment Phase. For the latter, you follow the rules noted above.

[An Unfortunately Critical Review of My Core Set Experience]

Budgernaut said:

Toqtamish said:

 

I don't see this game as lacking in Star Wars flavor at all and I enjoy the game. At the same time if it was a matter of flavor vs fun, I would rather have fun playing a game.

 

 

See, for me, Star Wars flavor makes it fun. My first two games of this ended with me desperately wanting more. Three games later (yes, I'm still only at 5 games), I felt hollow and empty after playing it. It wasn't particularly fun, and it didn't leave me with a Star Wars thrill. Currently, I agree with the OP on theme problems, i.e. heroes not being heroic enough and the overall game missing theme. Actually, I feel like everything about the game is thematic except for the combat phase, but I can't put my finger on why. But I feel like currently, individual card abilities are carrying the theme rather than the gameplay, and that seems off to me, especially when many cards lack a special ability. I'm a little rushed, so I'm sorry if these ideas aren't very coherent.

Just replying mostly to the bolded…what more do you want? Darth Vader is arguably the best unit in the game. Luke Skywalker, Emperor Palpatine, Princess Leia, Han Solo, Grand Moff Tarkin, Boba Fett, and the Devastator are all extremely powerful units. Anything with the Unique tag is significantly more powerful than a non-unique unit, why don't they feel "heroic" enough?

[Sleeves? and tournament rules]

Green Leader said:

Can anyone tell me how many cards are in a standard deck for this game? Also, is there any use or advantage for having different colored/style sleeves for the same deck (i.e., objectives vs. non-objectives)?

Thanks in advance, I don't know a whole heck of a lot about this game yet.

Edit: I'm just wondering if buying 4 packs of their Star Wars art sleevs will be adequate for the 4 premade decks in the core set. Thanks!

A complete deck contains 61 cards. 1 Affiliation card, a 10-card Objective Deck, and a 50 card Command Deck.

A starter deck contains 49 cards. 1 Affiliation card, an 8-card Objective Deck, and a 40 card Command Deck.

So yes, with 4 packs of art sleeves, you would be able to sleeve the 4 starter decks, but you would have several unsleeved objective sets. The box itself tells you you need 5 standard-size packs of sleeves to sleeve the entire game.

I would recommend using a different sleeve for the Objective cards, as it helps keep them from being accidentally shuffled into the Command Deck and vice versa. If you have your cards organized in a box, it also helps show where the objective sets break down at-a-glance. My recommendation would be to get 2 packs of art sleeves with a Light Side theme, 2 packs with a Dark Side theme, and 1 pack of plain clear sleeves.