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Bulwyf

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Posts posted by Bulwyf


  1. 1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

    You don't NEED two of each.  You WANT two of each.  There's a huge difference.

    Saying you NEED multiple copies of each conversion kit to play your existing collection in X-Wing 2nd Edition is either a gross exaggeration or a crippling case of OCD at work.

    No...if I want to play all of my ships I need two of each and the one kit from the First Order and whatever the New Republic is called. If I only got one kit of each I'd have a ton of ships I could never use.


  2. 28 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

    Now THAT'S making something up!  :lol:

    Two rebel kits, two imperial kits, two scum kits, one kit each for First Order and one kit for whatever the New Republic is called plus starter set. That's at least $400.00. Why would I lie about my and my wife's collection? I've been saying that for several posts. The only difference in my previous posts is when I actually counted out my scum ships and realized I needed two kits and not just one.


  3. 1 minute ago, AlexW said:

    People keep quoting you because you keep using words like "completely" when it may be true for you for what and how you want to convert but it doesn't appear true for others (including most) that have posted here.  That's not what "completely" means.  

    How much closer would you be to $400 if you had bought everything you mention for 40k twice?  Again, that's why people keep quoting you because this is a false equivalence.

    It doesn't?  Cards and dials are optional, absolutely true.  However, I bought the cards by choice in 7th edition.  Within a couple of years, those cards were not compatible because of the switch to the new edition.  So, I paid money for something in 7th that I can't use in 8th and to replace, even though it's optional, I'd have to pay the new cost.  This is exactly the opposite of what FFG did with dials.  They were optional in 1.0 and they are optional in 2.0 but guess what, they work in both...

    In the end, there's certainly people that are going to pay more depending on their situation, and you are unfortunately one of them, but most of us are pretty happy with how the conversion to 2.0 is going to work and we feel the same way as you when challenged on the numbers.

    To answer your question, it cost me $210.00 for 8th edition for core rule book ($50) and 4 army books (40.00 each. still waiting for Space Wolves but I assume it will cost the same). For X-wing 2.0 it will cost over $400.00.  As you can see that's  half the cost from one change in one game in comparison to a change in another game.

    I never said that my conversion cost is the same for everyone but I do think most people have the old 3 factions in 1.0.  I'm not trying to knock people who like 2.0 and are happy about it. My only quibble in this thread was, as I said above, people making up things to try and make 40k look more expensive than it actually is. At least for edition changes...in terms of actual hobby cost 40k is far more expensive.


  4. 5 hours ago, AlexW said:

    Cards aren't mandatory but new editions make old cards obsolete, so you either need to take the hit or replace them, sort of like the decision to purchase an extra kit.

    That...makes no sense. Cards aren't mandatory at all. Like...at all. You don't need to buy new cards to replace old ones to play the game. That's like saying I have to buy custom dials all over again for X-wing 2.0. You didn't have to have custom dials in 1.0 and you don't need them in 2.0 either.


  5. 5 hours ago, Icelom said:

    By this logic for x-wing you need 1x core, and 1x conversion to field countless 2.0 armies.

    I just don't understand how you guys keep comparing the most limited updated for 40k to a full large collection conversion of x-wing. It just sounds horribly flawed. (Let alone the fact that in the time xing went from 1.0 to 2.0 there were several version changed in 40k)

    Just feels like people are using vastly different goal posts.

     

    I wasn't the one who started the comparison. People were saying moving to 8th edition in 40k was more expensive than moving entire collections of X-wing to 2.0 which is completely not true. That's what I've been consistently arguing against. To convert my and my wife's X-wing to 2.0 will cost us well over $400.00 USD plus taxes. When I changed from 7th to 8th edition in 40k it cost me way, way less and that is for 4 different armies. 

    To use the comparison you made about one faction in 40k to one faction in X-wing it is still cheaper in 40k. One core rule book and one codex put me back $90.00. To move one faction in X-wing will cost  me $100.00 for two kits plus the starter box.  That's been my entire point. I'm not sure why the same few people keep quoting me and arguing why $90.00 is more than $150.00...


  6. 1 hour ago, Big k said:

    I fail to see this... to play my Chaos 40k army in 8th Ed I have had to purchase

    Core Rulebook

    Chaos Marines Codex 

    Chaos Daemons Codex

    Chaos Index

    Forgeworld Chaos Index

    Chapter Approved Supplement 

    Chaos Marines Data Cards

    Chaod Daemons Data Cards

    Tactical Objective Cards

    Open War Cards

     

    Atleast $500 worth of thanks for coming in a single edition change for a single army.  Would be another $200 - $300 if I looked at the Nurgle, Khorne and thousand sons side of my army.

     

    X wing I'll be up for around $400 at most... not even close.

     

     

    The only things you had to buy were the core rule book and your army book. Don't act like buying cards is MANDATORY to play. Chaos Demons and Chaos Marines are TWO separate armies so of course you had to buy both codexes. No one forces you to play units not listed in one army. That's a choice you make. 


  7. 1 hour ago, AlexW said:

    The fact that 40k had more editions should be a concern (if you're worried about cash grabs) for multiple reasons but you've somehow twisted into a bonus?

    And..again...many of us have pointed out, using actual examples that 40k hasn't been/won't be cheaper to convert even for an individual army.

     

    You mean like the specific examples I've posted more than once? My Space Wolves army, for instance, has over 300 models. All I need to go to 8th edition was a $50 core rulebook and a $40 codex once it comes out for that army. That's one army converted for $90.00.  If you have more than one army in 40k, which I do, then you pay more per army as you do in X-wing to convert more than one faction.


  8. 7 hours ago, Icelom said:

    So you could take an army from first edition and buy 2x books and be playing an 8th edition game with no other costs? fully legal and good to go? (mostly curious as that seems off from what i have heard)

     

    2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

    I think you've just proven my point, actually.  :lol:  90 bucks for rules - no models, just paper - every couple of years, into infinity and beyond.

    And it's not merely "listing a bunch of army books over the years", as you'd happily handwave it as - Warhammer 40K 6th Edition was released in June 2012.  X-Wing: The Miniatures Game was released in September 2012.  That means almost every single book in that list from 6th edition onwards was released in the time it took X-Wing to recieve a 2nd Edition.

    For reference, in the time span of 2012-2018, GW has released:

    • the 6th edition rulebook
    • 13 6th edition codexes
    • 6 6th edition codex supplements
    • 5 6th edition expansions
    • the 7th edition rulebook
    • 21 7th edition codexes
    • 8 7th edition codex supplements
    • 15 7th edition campaign/expansion books
    • the 8th edition rulebook
    • 5 8th edition indexes
    • 17 8th edition codexes

    So, in the time that it's taken FFG to release a 2nd edtion for X-Wing, a 40K player fielding just one army (say Space Marines, for the sake of argument), may well have bought

    • 3 rulebooks (6th, 7th, 8th)
    • 3 codexes (Codex: Space Marines 6th, 7th, 8th Edition)
    • 1 index (Index: Imperium 8th edition)

    Plus any number of supplements (chapter specific supplements, Death from the Skies, Gathering Storm etc).  God help them if they field multiple armies, or allies etc.

    Oh, and the X-Wing rules have always been available to download for free as well, btw.

    You are just proving my point...again. 40k having more editions than X-wing is the only reason someone in that time frame would have spent more on moving from one edition to another. "Converting" from one edition to another in 40k is still cheaper than moving from X-wing 1.0 to 2.0.

    We can keep going around in circles if you want but your hyperbole and straw man arguments are never going to change that.


  9. 17 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

    Bunk.  Pure bunk, as a cursory glance at GW's list of publication history over the last couple of years will be enough to tell you.  http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codices_(List)

    Wrong. 40k 8th edition rules are actually free to download. You need the core rulebook and your army codex. That's 90% bucks tops unless you get some kind of limited edition.  Listing a bunch of army books over the years just proves my point. When 40k changes editions you just need the core rulebook and your army book to keep playing.

    I've been playing Warhammer fantasy battles since the mid 80's and the early Rogue Trader era when it first showed up in either Realms of Chaos or Slaves to Darkness. It's been like 30 years or so since that came out. You never had to buy conversion kits for your models.


  10. Kings of War is definitely a better game. It is also cheaper by far than Age of Sigmar prices. I know it will sound silly perhaps but with all the years and memories I have invested in Warhammer Fantasy Battles I just can't find any fun in fantasy miniatures. If they ever change their mind and bring back the Old World then I'd be right back but until then...just can't do it. It also didn't help that when GW did that to fantasy it absolutely killed off the small active community at my FLGS.


  11. 1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

    Idk, the reaction seems pretty normal of the internet

    And definitely nowhere near the scale of the Age of Sigmar reboot that utterly demolished everything fantasy had been

    Granted that one was far more justified 

    That was the day the music died for me. I have literally thousands of dollars in Warhammer Fantasy Battles going back to the mid 1980's. All were ruined when GW destroyed the old world. I have almost every Black Library book published for both fantasy and 40k along with official GW lore books. Love the FFG Warhammer RPG. Played that like crazy. I can keep going but yes, that hurt.

    When GW turned their back on their loyal customers by literally blowing up the world the game was set in only to come back months later with some crappy IP lawyer approved setting...I was out. I will never play Age of Sigmar. My fantasy armies literally do nothing but collect dust. I tried playing Kings of War from Mantic with them but it wasn't the same.

    This change from 1.0 to 2.0 is like comparing a nose bleed to a sucking chest wound to what Warhammer fans had to deal with.


  12. 2 hours ago, AlexW said:

    Because it is?   It actually has been more expensive to convert to 40k for one faction for me, by a lot.  I've spent almost $200 on the conversion (including things like datacards, the extra codex that came out when the new edition was published, new rulebook, and new codex).   At most, to convert my 2.0 Xwing faction, it will be $130. If the First Order is cheaper as they say it will be, I still won't have reached that $200 mark and I'll  have converted two factions (with two conversion sets for each).   Admittedly, I don't think that will cover all of my ships (though it will be close -- I love interceptors and have 8 of them, and I may have a couple of extra tie fighters), it will cover everything else if I wanted to field it at the same time if I wanted to do that.

    One reason people continue to try and bring you around is because it sounds like you are converting to 2.0 for a collection that is actually two players' worth.  How many upgrade kits do you need per faction?

    I don't really need to be converted...I have zero issues with 2.0 or the need of it. I've seen the local tourney scene at my FLGS go down over the last two years especially. If this change will bring new life into the game then that's a great thing. I just hate how expensive it is for myself and others just to keep using the same ships you already have.

    As for myself, I need two Rebels, two Imperial, one Scum and one First Order and one Resistance kit. Plus the new starter box. That is a lot of money just to replace what I already have for myself and my wife. For people with just one faction only and one conversion kit covers all their needs then I can understand their ambivalence at what others are going to have to deal with.


  13. 10 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

    Now you know how I feel about your posts. You still don't get that comparing converting one faction to convert three is incredibly disingenuous. If you can't see that, then I would like to thank you for you time and part ways.

     

    And your posts ignoring total amount of models involved in just one faction is beyond incredibly disingenuous for both games. You can't even answer one honest question I put forth. Which is cheaper, converting 10,000 models in one faction in 40k or 10,000 models in one faction in X-wing?

    Converting just one faction in each game is cheaper in 40k than it is in 2.0. I don't even know how you can say otherwise with a straight face.


  14. 8 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

    You keep comparing converting one faction in 40K to converting an entire conllection in X-Wing, which is utterly ridiculous. Until you can show me you can get into different factions for $90, your argument is ridiculously slanted. 

    And you seem to be ignoring the quality of the army you up grade to in 40K, so I’m counting bare upgrade costs too. If you want to Force the issue of collection size, i’m gonna need you to calculate what it takes to make a competitive army, not just a legal army.

    Your post does not make any sense. Let's say you have 10,000 models in 40k in one faction. You just need the rulebook (or download the rules for free) and your army book. That one time cost lets you play 10,000 models in your one faction. How much would that cost you for one faction in X-wing 2.0? Quite a bit more than one rule book (or free rules) and one army book.

    Actually with free rules you could get into two factions in 40k with just having to buy two army books for under $90.00.  Can you say that about X-wing 2.0?

    There's no comparison between which is cheaper to convert. 40k is clearly cheaper especially if you have multiple factions in 2.0 you have to convert. And that doesn't even take into account how many extra conversion kits you have to purchase.


  15. 1 minute ago, Major Tom said:

    I’m guessing you never played High Elves then.  We had the core of our armies gutted in successive editions.  Going from 7 Dragon Riders (5 rank and file, General and Mage) in 3rd Ed to you can mount your general on a dragon in 4th Ed turned £120 of minis into scrap lead on the spot, and that’s before buying any rules or army books.  The infamous cavalry changes have already been mentioned above.

    Those are army changes. Not changes from the game from one edition to the next. I played Dwarfs, Dark Elves, Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings and Ogre Kingdoms so I'm well familiar with unpopular roster decisions from edition to edition...but you never had to buy anything more than the core rulebook and your army book to play from one edition to the next. That's the point...


  16. They are probably thinking if people are willing to shell out hundreds of dollars to convert from 1.0 to 2.0, what's another 5 bucks per individual ship going forward? Heck, why don't they make it double the cost? If you'd pay hundreds to convert, would you stop buying new waves if small ships were now 30.00 instead of 15.00?


  17. 2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

    Yeah, I have to say that justification is getting old. 

    "I let Warhammer screw me 8 times before I joined X-wing."

    "Don't be a baby.  You'll get used to it."

    It ain't my experience.  And comparing this change to a game you left as "An acceptable left of screwing" isn't making me feel better. 

    Their comparison makes literally no sense. I've played Warhammer Fantasy since the mid 1980's. I've played Rogue Trader, the predecessor to Warhammer 40k and including 40k all the way till now. At no point did Games Workshop force the players to buy conversion kits for their armies. All you ever had to do was buy the new edition's core rulebook and your army's rule book. I mean, it really is that simple. The cost of edition change in 40k is nowhere near as high as 2.0 is.

    So these comparisons, which I realize you are not making but just quoting someone else, makes absolutely no sense.


  18. 7 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

    Man just buying a Warhammer rulebook + updated codex ran for as much

    Much more if you wanted hardcover

    The backlash to X wing 2.0 is perhaps the biggest kneejerk, though 

     

    This is just wrong. You can have 10,000 models in your Warhammer army and still only need the core rulebook and your army codex to play in every edition. You never had to "convert" each one of your ships in order to play for any edition.

    The OP is correct. I've played Warhammer Fantasy Battles in the mid 1980's and have played a plethora of miniature games since. None of them have been this costly in terms of a simple edition change. That includes games that had radical new rules or options in edition changes. I have, for instance, over 400 individual Space Wolves models for Warhammer 40k. It only cost me a new rulebook and an army book (once it is released for current edition 40k) to make all of those models "converted" for the current edition.


  19.  

    1 hour ago, Chucknuckle said:

    Huh? Yeah you get a bunch of options, but you do in a 40K codex too. And you only ever need a single codex, no matter HOW big your collection is.

    Thank you. You can have 10,000 models in 40k but only need one single codex plus the core rule book to play. You absolutely cannot say that about 2.0 X-wing.


  20. 19 hours ago, LordBlades said:

    Indeed. If you wanted you could totally pull out your old Squat army and play them right now :)  Oh wait... 

     

    On a more serious note, while GW doesn't 'hard' push you to convert each model, they do 'hard' push you to pay for the new rules (rule book+army book is about 80$ IIRC) and they also 'soft' push you toward new releases by power creep/new rules options. 

     

     

    Core rule book and one army book for 40k costs you maybe 80 bucks. To convert my collection in X-wing 2.0 it will cost over $400.00 USD. That's a significant difference in cost. The only hard push you ever have from Games Workship in 40k is to buy the new editions rulebook and your particular army rulebook. Both FFG and GW are going to push new models, no one is faulting them for that.

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