Let me preface this by saying that I have very little experience with the SSU. I would be very tempted to build my army around a Mao Zedong, just because it can handle itself against pretty much any threat. Unfortunately, while I'd be tempted to get a Mao, I probably actually wouldn't do it. It's just too big for most of the published scenarios. Plus, we still don't know what the rules for tracked vehicles are. They could end up being pretty crippling. So, as cool as the Mao is, I'd avoid it. Instead, I'd probably build my army around a Matrioshka. It's sturdy, and can ravage both armor and infantry. (My Axis forces are sure jealous of the 6 range on it's machine guns, too!) I think that the Natasha would be a good complement to the Matrioshka. For 32 points, it's pretty cheap, and with it's two Howitzers + All in One, it will just rip apart infantry. I know you said that you'll probably get Grand'ma and Koshka from Zverograd, but that seems like a pretty inferior (and expensive) combo compared to the Natasha. I'm a bit torn on whether to suggest a Ground Attack Helicopter or not. While they pack a hell of a wallop, their range sucks. Plus, while they're failry sturdy, the right unit (like Heavy Recon Grenadiers or Grim Reapers) can put them in a world of hurt pretty quick. Hmm, with no chopper and no Mao, you're kind of lacking anti-air options. Actually, the Nastasia seems like it would work well in that role. Not only is it cheaper than a chopper, its machine guns outrange the guns on the chopper. So, how about some infantry? I have to say, none of the SSU infantry appeal to me that much. Still, I'd probably go with a Red Thunder unit with the Karamzin commissar for extra anti-armor punch and a Fakyeli unit plus a Sumarokov commissar for some close combat devastation. In summary, then, Matrioshka Natasha Nastasia Red Thunder + Karamzin Fakyeli + Sumarokov Which is 193 points. So, you could squeeze in an observer unit for an extra activation, if you wanted to.

Er, what? Hades has rules for Tesla Weapons but not tracked vehicles? Isn't the only unit currently in the game with a Tesla Weapon also a tracked vehicle? Man, these guys are killin' me…

Seems that this is fixed in the Unit Card Upgrade pack.

I'd love to go, but I'm just getting back into the game and probabably won't even have my shipment from Dust Games by next weekend.

Loophole Master said: We'll have to wait for the rules, but I can see how they could be a sort of a hybrid. They count as three figures when rolling damage from X/+ weapons, but they take damage just like a single hero. Something I noticed today makes me think that they will be treated as a single figure, even for damage from flamethrowers and the like. What I noticed is that the card clearly states that the unit only has one combat knife. The rules for knives say "When using this weapon, roll the number of dice indicated in the combat value for each miniature currently in the squad".(Revised Core Rulebook pg. 25) Note that it clearly says that there is one knife per miniature. So, since there is only one knife for the Laser-Jagdgrenadieres, I think that they are going to be treated as one miniature. Since the rules for incendiary blast weapons say "To apply this type of damage, roll “X” dice for each targeted miniature and inflict one point of damage for each result" (Revised Core Rulebook pg. 24), I think that they will only take one point of damage from flamethrowers. I guess we'll see! I assume that if there are new rules for these types of units, they will be in the Operation Hades book.

You mean kind of like when they released the heavy walkers as part of the expansion set featuring cluttered urban terrain?

Linky==> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3705 Unfortunately, the manual doesn't seem to be up yet. Which is too bad. I'm eager to see what the rules for tracked vehicles and Tesla weapons are.

I just picked up a copy of Cyclone, and I can confirm that it still has the old values on the cards.

100 points seem too high. I don't think it should cost any more than the Sturmkonig, and probably less, since the Konigslothar doesn't do that much more damage, has to reload, and doesn't have Advanced Reactive Fire. So, I think 80 points would be fair. Of course, in the previous thread, people were saying that it doesn't have to reload. But I thought that all artillery weapons have to reload based on page 14 of the Revised Core Rulebook? ==> "After artillery weapons fire, the unit must reload before it can fire that weapon again." If it didn't have to reload that would change things a little, but I still wouldn't cost it more than 90.

reptilebro1 said: If you are looking for a BBQ squad in Premium edition, FRP games (online retailer) is clearencing theres out at 28.00 which is 12.00 off of standard price. Wow, thanks for the heads up! FRP games still has these in stock. I ordered one today, and it cost me $28 including shipping. Considering how expensive the premium units are, it's nice to finally get a deal on one!

Yeah, I think page 15 of the Revised Core Rulebook makes it pretty clear that using the artillery strike skill does not end the observer's turn: "After completing the indirect shot, the artillery unit has used its activation for this round. The indirect shot automatically uses both of that unit’s actions. If the observer’s first action was ordering the indirect shot, it can continue with its second action."

Reviving an old thread here. Dust Tactics has inspired me to read up on various WW2 weapons. I'm interested mostly in German small arms, tanks, artillery, aircraft, etc. I don't mind buying different books for different topics. What I'm most interested in, I suppose, is the development history. Stuff like how encounters with heavy Russian tanks affected the development of the Tiger tank or how the Sturmgewehr 44 was developed to replace both submachine guns and rifles. I'd also like to read about operational history. Stuff like how the Tiger's treads ended up being problematic from a reliability standpoint. I find that kind of thing fascinating. I already have Cormack and Smedley's "German Small Arms of World War 2" which has lots of photos, but not enough text.

golem101 said: Oh God, I just realized that for only two points less than the Sturmkonig, the Mao Zedong is Damage Resilient. And has 6 tank riders. While the main guns are less capable, having three machinegun lines is a huge advantage, even if a bit underperfoming. I really hope Tracked Vehicle balances out things, otherwise that tank is a freaking headache waiting to happen. Yeah, I'd say that the Mao is definitely the best of SSU tanks (although the Lavrentiy looks the coolest).

I received my response from FFG today, and they agree that Damage Resilient does not protect you from an AP Icendiary Blast. So, no save, unit is eliminated.

Received my response from FFG today! (That was fast!) Two artillery strikes from one observer (and two different artillery units) is legal: "The Artillery Strike skill only consumes a single action. It is possible for an observer to call in two artillery strikes during a single activation. This will use up both of the observer unit's actions for the round. In reference to your example, the Beobachter could use his second action to call an Artillery Strike from the second Lothar against the Tank Busters."

I sent this question to the rules experts today, as well. So, we'll see what they have to say.

I sent this question off to the official rules experts. Let's see what they come back with.

So, let's see, for 5 more points than a Heinrich, I get more armor, twice the health, the ability to carry 12 soldiers into battle, better anti-infantry firepower (except against type 4), and better anti-armor firepower (except against type 3)? And I even still get Advanced Reactive Fire? *kicks Heinrich to the curb* Okay, the Sturmprinz does have some downsides, I admit, the biggest one being that it's…er…big. It'll obviously be a lot easier to move a Heinrich around a crowded battlefield. Still, the Sturmprinz seems really **** good for the points. Or is the Heinrich just overcosted?

With the new SSU tanks having the "damage resilient" skill, it occurred to me that I don't quite understand how that works with an AP incendiary blast (i.e. X/skull) attack. Let's say that a Steel Rain hits a Lavrentiy Beria with a petard mortar shell. Let's further assume that the Lavrentiy was at full health (i.e. 8 health points). At first I figured that the tank would just roll one die to see if it was destroyed or not. But then I took a closer look at the wording for the damage resilient skill on pg. 21, which says: "…roll one die for each point of damage inflicted on this unit. For each result, ignore one point of damage." Since the Lavrentiy went from 8 health to zero, it took 8 points of damage. Thus, it sounds like the tank would actually get to roll 8 dice and only take damage for the failed rolls. Hmm, now that I think about it, a third interpretation could be that damage resilience doesn't work against AP incendiary blast at all since no damage points are technically inflicted--the unit is simply eliminated. (The actual rule for AP incendiary blast says "roll 'X' dice for each targeted miniature and eliminate the entire unit if at least one die result is crosshair" (pg. 24). So, what do you chaps think? Which is the result?: Roll one die to see whether the tank is destroyed or not. Roll one die for each health point lost to see if it is truly lost. Roll no dice--tank is simply eliminated.

Miah999 said: The tank in this image from the Dust site. Also my theory on where this is all going: http://www.front-toward-enemy.us/2012/08/desert-winds-whisper.html I think you may be right about North Africa being next. The new Marine units that were announced have box pictures that appear to be set in the desert.

Loophole Master said: Red Thunder - Nothing new here, pretty similar to the Bot Hunters/Panzer Killers, but with UGLs compensating for the shorter-ranged MGs. What I like about these guys is that you can add a third bazooka via a Comissar for a mere 7 points, which is a lot cheaper than adding Rosie to the Bot Hunters (granted, she does bring more than just another bazooka).

I think that this is my favorite of the SSU tanks. The Karl Marx has limited range and seems to cost too much (unless Tesla weapons turn out to be the bestest things ever). The Vladimir Lenin looks impressive, but since it's an artillery piece, it's probably just going to be sitting at the back of the board somewhere, so all of that heavy armor and damage resilience seems a bit wasted. I think I'd rather have a pair of Nikita's. The Mao's closest competitor in my affection is the Lavrentiy. The Mao's main gun is a little weaker against armor than the Lavrentiy, but more than makes up for it by being better against infantry and far, far better against aircraft (since the Lavrentiy can't damage aircraft with its main gun at all--lack of anti-air capability seems a big weakness for the Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin, too). The flamethrower on the Lavrentiy is cool, but I think I prefer having the extra machine gun that the Mao has, since I think you'd want to take advantage of the superb range of the main gun as much as possible. In short, the Mao looks like a great well-rounded unit, with no glaring weaknesses--except perhaps against an anti-armor heavy walker like the Konigsluther. But even it that match-up, the Mao's damage resilience should help even things up.

Let's say that I have a Beobachter unit and two Lothars in my army. I activate the Beobachter. He has line of sight on a BBQ Squad unit. He uses his Artillery Strike skill to activate the first Lothar. The Lothar attacks the BBQ Squad unit and eliminates it. The Beobachter also has LOS on a Tank Buster unit. Can the Beobachter use his second action to call an artillery strike from the second Lothar against the Tank Busters? In reference, I cite page 7 of the Revised Core Rulebook which says that "the only combination of actions that a player cannot perform is ATTACK + ATTACK". However, page 15 of that same rulebook says this when talking about indirect shots "It [the observer] can perform two actions as normal (move, attack, etc.). For one action, the unit can order an artillery strike". It's not clear to me if the "for one action" bit in the second quote means that "the observer can only use the artillery strike skill for one of his actions" or just "using the artillery strike skill consumes one of the observer's actions".

golem101 said: The Wotan AR is immune to the Honey's phaser guns - which is the reason I field it - while the Laser Jagdgrenadiere squad is definitively not.. Wait, people actually use the Honey?! On a more serious note, the problem with the Wotan AR (as I see it) is that, for one point more, you can get a Ludwig and a Laser Jagdgrenadiere squad. You can then send the Ludwig to hunt down the Honey (possibly from outside of the Honey's range) while the laser squad hunts down something else.

Looks like we have our answer: