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Everything posted by DeepEyes357

  1. Of course you can ignore it. Once again, that is not the issue. I understand, however, at this point that may be your only option. The core is released, and what we've got is what we've got, unless a supplemental book concerning Force Users/Jedi/Sith would be made (which I would totally advocate) that gives alternative rules. I don't see the end game of your argument/position?
  2. Forgive me if I'm wrong, as I haven't purchased the released book and I'm still going by beta, but didn't the last beta update essentially suggest that you can ignore the morality system, or simply not use it if it doesn't suit your needs? I know morality is still a contentious topic, not just here, but on other forums as well; so while I understand people may get sick of it, I still think it's an interesting conversation to have. I'm ambivalent about the system myself. On the one hand, I can appreciate what it tries to do, and it is an "interesting" idea on how to track dark side/light side progression; on the other hand, I personally think it's too ambiguous at times, and the reality is the system kind of seems unnecessary - for me and my group, at least. Unlike Obligation and Duty, there are far less mechanical or narrative benefits beyond the increases/decreases in strain and wound thresholds, and the flipping of dark side or light side points.
  3. I think the mantra of "this is a narrative game!" is pushed a bit too far sometimes at the expense of common sense mechanics. I mean, yes, as a narrative game you're going to fluff up everything as the dice fall because that's what this system is built upon. However, there is a need for mechanical rules to back up a lot of stuff you're going to encounter in game. As I've been playing with FaD, I've been noticing some of the rules become very iffy when you start really looking at what can and cannot be done. I was thinking of making a thread to sort of hash out some of the stuff I've encountered and unsure about.
  4. This actually sort of felt weird to me, and was part of my feedback during beta. I feel like those talents should remove soak bypassing abilities such as Breach and Pierce. If you Reflect, you get the benefit of adding soak since 9/10 times the majority of blaster weapons don't have those qualities. If you're going into melee where you will use Parry, you're going to end up facing off against more weapons that have at least Pierce, if not Breach when it comes to lightsaber fights. I found it unfair that essentially at range you're still allowed the benefit of soak, but not when you're facing off against melee weapons--many of which have things like Pierce and Breach. I houseruled at this point that Parry and Reflect remove soak negating abilities when used. This really makes no difference when it comes to ranged attacks, because as I said, less ranged weapons have Breach or Pierce. It helped to make saber fights last a little longer at least.
  5. My understanding the hurl control upgrade acts like a combat check using the discipline skill, so by "force pushing" a humanoid target, it would be a silhouette 1 so that's 10 base damage with additional successes from the check adding to damage. How does triggering critical injuries work with this power? I'm thinking it would be like improvisational weapons and unarmed combat? 5 crit rating? Knockdown I guess could be handled with 2-3 advantage.
  6. Are you telling me my Franciscan coins are useless?!
  7. The Balancing Items and Balancing Encounters is a nice touch, I think. It's simple common sense suggestions that help to remind the GM to ensure everyone is having fun.
  8. I have to say that I am absolutely loving Star Wars Rebels. And if that's an indication of what Disney is willing to do with the franchise then I am hopeful that Episodes 7-9 will be fairly decent. I'm not a fan of Abrams' storytelling by any means, but as a director he's decent. We'll have to wait and see until more of the plot is revealed.
  9. How come? Mainly the idea that it's supposed to be a cross guard. But that wouldn't work in this regard. What the speculation is now is that it's an unstable saber, and those are like exhaust ports for it. You can see the saber blade looks unstable and shifting. The sound is different as well. I could live with that, considering what the prevailing theory is for who the supposed sith are.
  10. As much as I would love that, I think they're going to end up being different. It was very surreal watching the trailer. Like, I knew this was in the making, saw some of the news and concept art images and stuff...but it didn't really "hit me" until I saw the trailer. This is actually happening. I'm very excited, but cautious as well. I'm not a fan of Abrams, and if some of the rumors currently out there end up being true, well it'll be rather disappointing...but we'll see. And I'm sorry, but that new saber is terribad.
  11. A good player and good gm will be using misdirect to also gain advantage dice to stealth roles, which you can then narrate as "being invisible" or hard to see on your successes.
  12. Where does it say that ongoing force powers require an action to activate? All I see is that it only takes an incidental to end the effects.
  13. Oh shi- Mace Windu in episode 7 confirmed.
  14. It's true, except for a couple times a Dark Sider electrocutes minions in the Clone Wars (and games like SWTOR/KOTOR and TFU), no named characters are killed by Force Lightning. it's almost like Force Lightning is specifically used to inflict lingering effects on the target (Crit/Burn). The only person killed by Force Lightning that is a named character is Vader, and he was grievously injured already (multiple crit injuries & close to Wound Threshold). Luke, Obi Wan, Savage Oppress, Yoda; all blasted by Force Lightning and injured/dazed/stunned, but not killed. Mace Windu would like to have a word with you. Oh wait, he dead!
  15. *plays "Into the West" for Kaosoe* Why couldn't they just add "Ignores Soak" to the power? It's already there for the first control upgrade for strain.
  16. Maybe so. But I still think there are more systemic issues.
  17. Only if I can get a power to devour the life of an entire star system. I want to be Star Wars' Galactus. Cause pulling Star Destroyers from the sky ala Unleashed is so 2008.
  18. Oh, no doubt the Inquisitor was toying with Kanan. In fact, I would say the Inquisitor was probably using Terrify and/or Fearsome during the duel to try and cause conflict in Kanan and Ezra. Though, I don't agree the Inquisitor got an automatic conflict for knowing Terrify, but you already know my feelings on that! I think it makes sense that Kanan and co ran. The Inquisitor was a tough foe, and I think the whole incursion was taxing for all of them. I know Whafog mentioned that Kanan might need to know Bind. I think he's referencing that particular scene in the hallway. I think Kanan instead used dark side pips to fuel his Move Power to hold the Inquisitor at bay. Let me explain: Here's the thing, and tell me if you agree or not, because I think it makes sense in this instance; Ghostofman mentioned earlier how people are so afraid of using Dark Side Pips, and DonovanMF was saying how in the latest Order 66 podcast (which I haven't listened to yet, but I will later), Sam Stuart said that mechanically it's there so people can use the Dark Side to power their abilities, and to not always using it is somewhat curtailing their power. I don't know if I fully agree with this sentiment, mainly because if you're a FR 1 it's going to be a source of frustration more often than not. You're not always going to want to suffer conflict to make your powers go off, but it does introduce an interesting source of storytelling tension. Particularly, I feel, when you're at FR 2-4. At those rating levels, you're going to generate enough pips to get your powers going off more readily, and with enough to fuel your upgrades. But you're still not always guaranteed. And at those levels, I feel like people are going to be more loose with accepting conflict to ensure their powers go off. It adds a nice little story tension to what is going on. My feeling, is in that fight with the Inquisitor in the hallway, Kanan sees Ezra about to possibly die, he then rolls Move--maybe even out of turn, which is apparently Kosher per RAW in the Force Powers and Narrative side bar, in being a bit more flexible with power interpretation--and rolls Dark Side Pips. Knowing he can't let Ezra die, he spends the destiny point and accepts the conflict just to make sure he stops the Inquisitor. I loved that scene in particular. Freddi Prince Jr.'s voice acting is pretty good, and his desperate yell "No!" was heart wrenching. It so seemed to me that he called on the dark side, even if a little, to ensure he saved someone. As for how I would stat the Inquisitor, I haven't thought of that yet. I'll look into it tomorrow possibly, and put something up. As for the potential play test. I'm musing over using roll 20, which is what I use with my group to play online. It has a dice roller that is compatible with FFG's Star Wars, and that's what I've been using while playing with friends. I'm considering seeing if I could get some volunteers from this forum to help me run similar scenarios/scenes with the Kanan I built and see what comes of it. It has a chat log system, so I could post it here. I think it would be valuable. Only thing is getting time during the week to do it.
  19. Please... I don't think myself a higher authority on anything. Keep the baseless accusations to a minimum. I'm just someone who enjoys star wars, role playing games, and good story telling. Fact of the matter is, with what this iteration of Kanan can do, and has, he wouldn't last long in the situations he's been in so far on the show. And they're not some outrageous plot elements. Fighting packs of minions, and the occasional rival and nemesis should be par for the course. He would be floored during the inquisitor fight if you used the basic rules to make an inquisitor. I'm of a mind that maybe I should run this Kanan in a session emulating the things he does, and see the results. Maybe I'll post them. Perhaps I'll do it this week. If anyone has other changes to Kanan they would like to see, post them here. Maybe when I have time, I'll try them out. Edit: let me not speak with certainty on this. I could very well be wrong. Hence why I think a test would be appropriate. I'd very much like to see.
  20. What abilities? People keep cursing these apparent strawmen Jedi like they're the bogymen waiting to ruin everything. Are we talking about stuff like thought bombs, devouring the life essence of entire planets, removal of force sensitivity, destroying planets, dropping star destroyers from the sky, and other ridiculous stuff--which I agree is ridiculous--we've seen in games and other media? Or are we talking about the basic stuff we see Jedi do in the films and now in Star Wars Rebels? Reflecting blaster shots, using basic force powers, having saber duels, and all that? I've stated out Kanan, and I've stated a bunch of other force users. It takes A LOT to get them to feel like Jedi. And you know wha? That's totally fine. But the problem becomes when I can make characters similiar to say, Sabine, Zeb, and Hera, from Rebels, without having to spend a heck of a lot of XP, there is a problem somewhere. I agree, Force Users should be a lot, and require an investment. But requiring almost an additional 400 xp (not counting Knight Level) after creation to get there? I don't know, it just seems like a lot considering what little you get in the way of talents and force powers. Reflect and Parry arguably aren't anymore good than Side Step, Dodge, or other talents that give defensive bonuses. It essentially adds to soak, yes, but you need a lot of them just to be able to keep standing in the fast paced, heavy hitting combat this system relies on. Jedi are essentially Melee characters, and if you're running them in a Dark Times setting, the second someone uses their saber, the combatants are going to basically be "focus fire on the Jedi". You're going to get hit a lot. Even DonovanMF suggested slightly altered rules for parry and reflect to help, and a better version of Improved Reflect/Parry. Also, Reflect and Parry don't block breach. So with lightsaber duels, especially with any powerful lightsaber, you're gonna have a bad time if you get hit. Again, I'm fine with Jedi costing a lot of xp. In fact, a friend of mine I'm running the game for was saying how in 2E DnD, Wizards were almost similar. How they sucked at start but once they got to a certain amount of XP/Level, they were really good. Problem is that what you're getting talent wise and sometimes force power wise don't reflect all that XP investment. I'm still running one shots with my group to test it out. Again, perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm still not totally convinced. And as to players wanting to make characters emulating/simulating the movies? "Your player character takes part in an adventure, analogous to episodes ofa television show, or individual movies wherein you play the part of the recurring cast." And "These Player Characters are cut from the same cloth as other memorable characters found in the Star Wars Universe--tough, savy, resourceful, and powerful people who who are destined to make an impact on the galaxy." Found in the "I'm a Player! What do I do?" intro section of EoTE, and Page 8 "The Player Characters (The PCs)" in the same book. I believe the same stuff is found in AoR as well.
  21. Don't get me wrong. I agree with a lot of this and with Maelora on the fact that A LOT of the EU was absurd. Trust me, I think the best decision Disney made was axing the whole thing and starting fresh. Honestly? I was hoping Clone Wars would have been thrown out as well. I'm only frustrated when it comes to having discussion and debates on mechanical stuff, that should have a basis in lore, be constantly flip flopped from agreeing with Lore, to totally dismissing it on the whim and only when it serves peoples purposes. No one reasonably intelligent is asking for overpowered Jedi. But anyone who has a little bit of knowledge of the game mechanics thus far can see that there is something amiss with F&D. And I very well could be wrong. But when I play with my group, and build a bunch of characters on my free time, I find myself frustrated more often than not when it comes to making Force Users. It's an anxiety I don't have with almost any other concept.
  22. Are you referring to things like certain force users calling upon abilities they wouldn't otherwise know without some training? **Star Wars Rebels Spoiler in case you haven't seen it, then ignore** For Instance, like Ezra in Rebels basically using Enhance or Move to hurl someone on accident? I think a lot of that can be covered by GM fiat. There was a discussion on that actually in the Game Mechanics forum. I would simple let it be done only in a rare and dramatic scene that makes sense, using a Discipline Check, and requiring a Destiny Point. But no, I don't think there are any real hard and fast rules on how to properly emulate that in F&D or any of the other books.
  23. Maelora, please do not take what I'm going to say as an attack, as I enjoy your posts and reading what you have to say. However, I take issue with this statement you keep making. I've seen it for awhile now, this whole "people want anime superheroes based on 30+ years of Jedi fanfiction". What fan-fiction are you referring to? If it's all the material we've been given over the years that was canon, and now Legends, and all the media including books, television shows, and games...then I would think the writers/creators of all that media would not appreciate being told their stuff is simple fan-fiction and wish fulfillment of power trips based on "Jedi Heroes". Writers such as R.A. Salvatore, Timothy Zahn, James Luceno, Michael A. Stackpole, Karen Traviss, and many others. Many of which, are New York Times Best Sellers, science fiction writers, and even tabletop gaming enthusiast and developers. Even Dave Filoni, the creator of The Clone Wars Cartoons, and now Star Wars Rebels is very detail oriented when it comes to Star Wars, and you can see from his discussions and interviews that he has a good mind for it, and seems to care very much for the setting and lore. To be so dismissive of all these creators to me seems so strange. They were the ones who helped push the EU to get Star Wars were it is today. Timothy Zahn himself was the first to really get the ball rolling. Now I know a lot of what is out there can be pretty crap. The EU--now Legends--is full of ridiculous stuff and power levels over 9000 when it comes to some stuff Jedi do. I dislike in Swtor how the Emperor apparently sucked the life out of a planet to become immortal. What the heck is he, Galactus? I dislike a lot of other decisions like bringing back Maul, the over the top gaming experiences like the Force Unleashed and by Extension Starkiller. I dislike the Vong--and I don't care what anyone says, they're terrible! The Vong as an antagonist is one of the only things I will never accept as part of the Star Wars Universe haha. However, if our frame of reference was only say, the 2003 Clone Wars Cartoon, and the Force Unleashed, I would agree. But I think what we've had, and what we continue to get now with the new canon, is pretty good. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As to what everyone else who has been arguing about how this is only a game and is not supposed to emulate the shows and movies, or everything we've seen is based on plot, and that we shouldn't be looking at them so much... Those are a lot of intellectual disingenuous arguments you're making. This thread alone, a lot of you have been arguing from positions of canon, and what we've seen done in films and other media. I can go back even further in a lot of other threads and link the myriad of comments made that argue from specific premises on what we should expect from what we see in canon, and what we shouldn't. Suddenly though, everyone back tracks and is like "this isn't a simulation, they're just movies, you can't stat things based on the movies, they are their own things, we shouldn't rely on them". That's totally bogus. Especially since people like to argue from positions of canon, but only in times when it serves their own needs and to further a specific idea or agenda. For the record, I mostly agree. A lot of what you see in movies and narrative fluff you shouldn't have to worry about getting 100% in your games. However, this is still a game system based on Star Wars, and a certain amount of material already presented should be taken into account when discussing the mechanics. Either stick to framing your arguments using canon/Legends/Star Wars Material in a logical progression or go at it from a purely mechanical based approach with overall game play balance kept in mind. Stop flip flopping between half-arguments and logical fallacies in order to circumvent valid points.
  24. Actually this brings up a good point we need to be ready for. As the canon gets reintroduced or expanded we're going to have the problem of a character in one media showing certain skills and in another showing others. So Jedi Master Flex might show up on the cartoon able to be made at +150XP but then show up in a prequel novel showing additional skills talents and abilities that no longer mesh. Can't make everyone happy, but at least we can admit that now... At least the F&D release went ok so maybe when the new films start coming out it won't be a total poop storm here. This is a very good point to bring up. http://unknownregionsbrewery.wordpress.com/2014/11/13/star-wars-rpg-and-rebels-a-perfect-match/ This has been making its way around. I've seen it on Reddit's /r/swrpg, /r/starwarsrebels, and /r/starwars subreddits. Rebels is the new canon and is pushing forward the new Star Wars. A lot of people are enjoying it, and no doubt that FFG's Star Wars is going to be looked at by a lot more people. I've seen some comments made already how Rebels feels like a tabletop adventure, and very similiar to Firefly. However, I will posit that F&D is still not where it's supposed to be in terms of force using characters people are able to make. Anyone who comes in wanting to play or recreate their favorite heroes from the show may very well get disappointed with what they get as opposed what their expectations are. I suppose only time will tell.
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