Bertolac said: I got the joke Tawnos. <3

The difference is academic. At one point, Luke manned the guns and fulfilled the same positon as a crew gunner. At more than one point, Vader gave direct orders and fulfilled the same position as a captain or admiral. Would you try to claim to me that a captain is not a member of his ship's crew? Granted, Vader's position is far more grandoise than Luke's temporary gunner position, but this game is a vast abstraction of the Star Wars universe as far as ship battles go. I doubt we'll see any ships larger than the YT-1300 and Firespray for playspace reasons, so I say why not Vader crew member? Also granted, not every scenario involves asteroids. It probably could be generalized, but given that it was only meant to be funny and not serious…..

Geez, tough crowd.

I still think you're creating too tight a coupling between pilot skill and player skill. Asteroids are a test of player skill, not pilot. Also, X-wing is a great game in part because it's very simple mechanically, at the cost of additional abstraction. Adding more mechanics and more rules would only serve to slow down the fast pace of the game.

Sigh….some people just can't take a joke. To be fair, though, Vader is as much a crew member of the Executor as Luke is when aboard the Falcon. Granted, Vader was never actually aboard a Firespray in the movies, but for that matter, neither were "Gunner" or "Weapons Engineer", nor was Nien Nunb aboard the Falcon when Han was piloting it, and yet all of these things are allowed.

Two things. One: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=254&efcid=6&efidt=804273 And two: Avoiding collisions is the responsbility of the player. The game isn't about how good your pilots are, it's about how good YOU are as a player. Just because Wedge is a 9 pilot skills doesn't mean he should be able to fly through an asteroid with impunity.

Darth Vader (Imperial Only) You may perform actions and make attacks even after an asteroid collision and/or landing. 4 Because asteroids do not concern him.

When X-wing first came out, I toyed with a squad that looked like this: Darth Vader, Squad Leader, Concussion Missiles Maarek Stele, Marksmanship, Cluster Missiles Night Beast Dark Curse The objective being to use Squad Leader to get Maarek a Target Lock and Marksmanship on a single turn (as well as Vader getting a Target Lock) and get all the missiles off early. Of course, the problem with the squad was that it was very reliant on getting first blood, and couldn't hold up if it didn't. In general, I haven't found a way to make Maarek good. The issues I always have with him are a) his ability is marginally useful due to the plethora of shields and ways to mitigate crits, and b) he needs an [arguably suboptimal] upgrade to make his ability even remotely useful, and for the cost of Maarek + Upgrade, you can just get Vader instead, who is awesome all on his own with no upgrades whatsoever……and then you can make him even cooler with upgrades. I could see Maarek having some ulility as a counter to Han Shoots First, but you'd have to keep him alive long enough to strip Han's shields so Maarek can drop some ship-crippling crits on him. And frankly, he just doesn't bring enough to a squad in general to be worth having to counter that very specific scenario.

ForceM said: Yeah han goes first but Howl and Krassis after that. I know that it is far from unbeatable as a list, and it was as i said a very close call. But from a distance with that HLC Krassis feels pretty safe since sometnes you can even evade and trust your reroll. And 4 attack dice hurts X-Wings a lot and the Falcon even more than you get damaged from range 3. I will need to try expert handling sometimes on krassis innorer to barrel roll backwards and keep my distance… Unfortunately, Krassis doesn't get an Elite Pilot upgrade, so no barrel rolls for him. Believe me, it's the one thing that I wish I could have to really round out the Krassis HLC build. Barrel Rolls in Firesprays are crazy good.

I'm surprised no one has suggested Expert Handling on Boba Fett. Between his built-in ability to switch directions on a whim and the ability to Barrel Roll in a ship with a large base, he can be a real pain to pin down. Especially with the addition of an Engine Upgrade, giving him even more positioning options. Also, adding Barrel Roll as an option makes it a ton easier to manage that forward firing arc to keep people in range of the HLC. Here's my suggested Boba Build: Boba Fett - 39 Expert Handling - 2 Engine Upgrade - 4 Gunner - 5 HLC - 7 Add missiles and mines to flavor. Simmer 15 minutes. Let stand 5 minutes before "getting served."

The reason for the Expert Handling errata is that FFG didn't want you to be able to use Expert Handling and a regular Barrel Roll in the same round (via Vader's 2 actions, at the time of the errata). This errata was (presumably) the result of much heated discussion on the forums (see threads from the October-December timespan) over whether Vader could Barrel Roll then use Expert Handling (or vice versa) to barrel roll again, as the original text of the Expert Handling seemed to allow such a thing. Now that it specifically says "take a free barrel roll action", it's clear that you can't do both in the same round. Using Expert Handling is an Action. It then grants a free Barrel Roll action, plus some extra stuff. Expert Handling doesn't just give you a free Barrel Roll every turn. Expert Handling is not useless, however. Barrel Roll is an incredibly powerful action to have at your disposal, and being able to give it to ships that normally wouldn't have it is very useful. Try throwing Expert Handling on a YT-1300 or, even better, a Firespray. Their large bases make it an incredibly powerful manuever for manipulating range; especially the Firespray, who actually has to worry about firing arcs.

Duraham said: Lord_Squinty said: Torresse said: mrfroggies said: Chewie is better with Draw there Fire, but Lando lets Biggs Focus for added defense. Now Biggs is rolling 4 or 5 dice, and he gets to use a focus for those times that he needs the extra help. I've been toying around with a similar list. I use Tycho Celchu with Squad leader to give Biggs a Focus. Now even if both guys do a K-Turn I can still have Biggs do an action. that is incorrect, squad leader on techo will do nothing if biggs does a kiogran turn. Remember squad leader gives a free action, which is specificly forbidden to be taken if you have stress From FAQ: Q: If a ship is required to skip its “Perform Action” step, is it still allowed to perform free actions outside of the “Perform Action” step? A: Yes. That is in reference to if you collide with another ship and had to lose your action. if you have stress tokens, you may not perform any actions, including free ones That section of the FAQ has been misquoted in the context of "taking actions while stressed" a lot. FF should add an elaboration by it that says "skipping your Perform action step is not the same as losing the ability to perform actions (see Stress)".

I made a post about this very topic a while back: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=254&efcid=6&efidt=745354 I think that with the new wave of ships coming out, the issue will be alleviated a bit.

chrisrivers said: "I think the Daredevil/Engine Upgrade combo would go well on a Firespray that relied heavily on its secondary weapon (Krassis, more than likely), since the extra hard turn option lets you swing that frontal arc around faster" Except Krassiss does not have an elite pilot upgrade slot. Ah yeah, I forgot that he's not cool enough to get good upgrades. Well, even so, the point still stands. If your'e going to build a Firespray around a secondary weapon on Kath or Boba, Daredevil/Engine Upgrade is an interesting option to consider.

hothie said: True, but if you use ptl in the perform actions step, then you will lose his ability on the card, as Tawnos pointed out, Turr wouldn't be able to use those actions while stressed. So, your best bet is to perform an action normally, then use ptl after attacking. I guess it depends on the situation as well, but that works out really well for him to use ptl during the combat phase. This brings up an interesting question on the wording of Push the Limit. "Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar. Then receive 1 stress token." So, does that mean that the option to use PtL is only extended once per round (after you take your first action), and if you decline to use it, that's that? Or, does it mean that it's extended every time you take an action during the round, and may only be exercised once per round? Basically, does the "Once per round" portion of the card apply to "after you perform an action" or "you may"? I suspect it works the exact way Hothie is suggesting (which is really cute on Turr, by the way), but I've been blindsided by weird rulings before.

dbmeboy said: It's also much harder to find room to barrel roll without overlapping another ship or an obstacle. Still pretty good, but boards get crowded and cuts down on large ships' abilities to use such things. Actually, that's not as true as you might think. Since the base is so large, and you can go from the Straight 1 on any part of one edge to any part of the other, there's a much larger potential area to barrel roll into in terms of forward/reverse movement. Not to mention the fact that once those larger ships start hitting the board, the area isn't nearly as crowded as it used to be. And yes, I think this makes Boba Fett's pilot ability even better than it already is. He can pull off some crazy maneuvering with this. I do like the idea of combining Daredevil and Engine Upgrade, but that's 7 points compared to 2, it takes two upgrade slots to pull off, and it's not quite as flexible since you have no choice of where you end up at the end of a hard 1 turn compared to the options provided by barrel roll. I think the Daredevil/Engine Upgrade combo would go well on a Firespray that relied heavily on its secondary weapon (Krassis, more than likely), since the extra hard turn option lets you swing that frontal arc around faster

I think the defensive benefit of Elusiveness over Push the Limit is too minimal to justify. The total potential defensive yields of both are: Elusiveness: Evade or Focus token (from normal Action), one forced attack die reroll, and a Focus token Push the Limit: Evade token, free positioning action (Boost or Barrel Roll), and free Focus token Honestly, I think the free positioning action from PtL outweighs the single die reroll. And, my bigger concern, is that Elusiveness has (effectively) no offensive component; since Soontir, being Rank 9, will more than likely have already taken his Attack for the turn, the Focus you get from Elusiveness is only useful for defensive purposes except (maybe) against Wedge, Han, or Vader. PtL also gives a bit more flexibility to balance offense and defense, as you can get the Evade and 2 Focus tokens with it if you don't need a Boost or Barrel Roll. That being said, Elusiveness does certainly have synergy with Soontir, and I'd be remiss if I told you it was bad. It's not.

Denied said: targetted Howlrunner with everything as soon as he could and obliterated him I make a point of noting whenever I can that Howlrunner is female. As for switching out Dark Curse for Turr, Dark Curse with Stealth might be the most hard-to-hit ship in the game. 4 Ag, Evade token, and, oh, you can't reroll or use Focus? Best of luck to you.

It's crazy. It's impossible. That's right! It's the 3 ship Imperial squad! Boba Fett, Expert Handling, Gunner, Seismic Charges Soontir Fel, Push the Limit, Stealth Dark Curse, Stealth Will it work? Probably not! Will it be annoying as hell to kill? Yes, sir!

I can tell you this about Barrel Roll: giving Expert Handling to a Firespray is nothing short of amazing. They get sooooo much distance out of a barrel roll due to their large base, it makes it almost impossible to avoid both of their firing arcs.

DeadInkPen said: I know what you mean. My buddy keeps on going on and on about how powerful Scarlet will be with having the Ion Cannon and Gunner. That he is always going to have a ship with the ion token and multiple stress tokens on it. I keep on trying to point out to him that her ability is a bit too circumstantial. With crits only being around 10% chance per die. I played a game today where I fielded Scarlet with Marksmanship and a Gunner. It was interesting, but I didn't get to use it enough to really pass judgment on it. I think the idea is solid, but my manuevering was subpar. The idea is that they can either eat crits; or soak them, be stressed, and get shot again (possibly accruing more stress tokens in the process!). I'm constantly on the lookout for ways to make Marksmanship useful, which it is not in 99% of cases.

DeadInkPen said: The R5Don4 Star II said: From the FAQ: Q:If a ship is required to skip its "perform action" step, is it allowed to perform free actions outside of the "perform action" step? A: Yes soo…. Rulebook Page 17 under Stress: While a ship has at least one stress token, it cannot execute red maneuvers or perform any action (even free actions). I think what the FAQ is covering is if you have something like expert handling on lets say Howlrunner, you can do the free barrel roll before you move. Then move and do your normal action. The stress section seems to be quite clear on the issue of free actions not being able to be done. Maybe if the pilot ability didn't list it as an action and more like Fel's it wouldn't be an issue. Actually, the FAQ is commenting on situations that prevent you from taking your Action Step, such as a collision during movement. Expert Handling doesn't do what your example says it does. It's just an Action like any other. Do your movement, then do the Expert Handling barrel roll action. It doesn't let you do a barrel roll before you move at all. But yes, any stress tokens (like you said) prevent a pilot from taking any Actions at all, including free actions.

hothie said: I know the advantage of Imperials is in their numbers, but now they have some better power players. So, with the new Interceptors and Slave 1 being much more costly, are there viable 4 ship Imperial builds now? I got to thinking about this while building this squad: Soontir Fel with Elusiveness (fun little combo) Turr Phennir with Daredevil ( would be really fun if you have someone on your back to do a 1 turn, then 1 turn, then attack, then barrel roll out of their firing arc.) Mauler Mithel with Expose and Stealth Device (imagine shooting with 5 dice at Range 1. Nevermind the dichotomy of both Expose and Stealth…) Dark Curse with Stealth Device (REALLY like this combo now.) I know this build has no synergy, but that kind of frees you up to fly however you want. I dunno. I'm just kind of playing around with new Imperial builds for now. And this build doesn't even include a Firespray or an Advanced. Don't think Daredevil works on Turr Phennir in the way you suggested. After you use Daredevil, you'll have a stress token, preventing you from using Turr's free barrel roll or boost action (unless I've been playing "free actions" and stress incorrectly this whole time?). I've been thinking about 4 Interceptor squads as well. This is what I came up with: Soontir Fel with Push the Limit and Stealth. Push the Limit for 3 actions? Yes, please! And Soontir's ability says to take a focus token, not a "free focus action", so you can get 2 Focuses with him if desired Turr Phennir with Stealth 2x Alpha Squadron Pilot (1 with Stealth) I know it seems like a lot of Stealth, and I was leery of it at first, too. 3 points is kinda steep for something that goes away with one hit. But that extra Agility die combined with Evades is crazy talk. And, if you really want to have your opponent pulling their hair out, give Soontir Elusiveness like Doug suggested. It's hilarious. Since we're talking about 4-ship squads, I was also toying around with a Grab Bag squad containing all 4 types of ships. Howlrunner Kath Scarlet with Gunner Tempest Squadron Pilot Alpha Squadron Pilot Nothing terribly fancy here. Howlrunner is interesting when combo'd with a Firespray with the Gunner upgrade.

Just finished the Kessel Run event at Lightspeed Hobbies in Portage, IN. We had 7 players, with 4 Rebel and 3 Imperial squads. We played 3 rounds of Swiss, then cut to Top 4. I went undefeated and took home the win. I elected to take the Firespray, since I play almost exclusively Imperial squads. Here's what I fielded: Howlrunner - Swarm Tactics Mauler Mithel - Swarm Tactics Backstabber Tempest Squadron Pilot Academy Pilot x2 I took a cue from Doug's World Champion squad and integrated parts of it into TIE All-stars. It worked incredibly well. The Academy and Tempest pilots really gummed up the works while Howlrunner, Mauler, and Backstabber took the enemy apart. Had a great time with a good bunch of fellas. Wish I lived closer to Lightspeed Hobbies; I'd be a regular for sure.

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, so I'm posting it here. Tycho Celchu: "You may perform actions even while you have stress tokens." Push the Limit: "Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar. Then receive 1 stress token." By the rules, a pilot can have any number of stress tokens from any number of sources. Under normal circumstances, stress tokens prevent 2 things: taking actions and performing red manuevers. So, in theory, Tycho could forego red manuevers in favor of taking 2 actions every turn, piling up a (theoretically) limitless number of stress tokens. Interesting tidbit: Tycho + Push the Limit = 29 points. Exact same cost as Vader. What's the comparison here between Vader and Tycho in this regard? Tycho has 1 less pilot skill, 1 less hull, (effectively) no pilot upgrade, and has to give up red manuevers for the rest of the game. Also, Tycho gets Boost instead of Barrel Roll (having not yet been able to play with Boost, I can't draw a reasonable comparison between them). Not to mention the fact that Tycho's second action from Push the Limit has to come from his Action Bar; Vader has no such restriction. That does seem to illustrate just how good Vader really is for his cost. Thoughts?