DagobahDave said: We play with two Damage decks combined. How many Critical Hit cards do you usually see in a game? It's not very many for us (maybe 2 or 3 in a 100pt match), so we see little risk of drawing 2 "rares" in the same game. Most hits are not critical, and most ships have a small window of opportunity for gaining criticals. Out of an X-Wing's 5 'hit points' only 2 of them can result in a critical hit card that you'll actually have to read, since the first 2 hits are on shields and the last hit would be fatal. I think if we drew a critical damage card that didn't have an effect because of another critical already in play on that ship, we'd draw again. But if the effect can be doubled or worsened by that same card, we'd keep it. Unless the X-wing has Determination, or R5-D8. Besides, it doesn't matter if any individual card is drawn as the result of a normal hit or a crit; whether you reveal any given card or not is inconsequential. By mixing two damage decks together, you change the composition of the deck. If you're okay with that, then good on ya. Personally, I find it's more convenient for each player to maintain their own standard damage deck. Plus, this is the way it was done at the Inaugural tourney at GenCon, so I have to assume that's how it will continue in future sanctioned events.

Budgernaut said: I love the idea of Biggs, Dutch, and Garven teaming up, with all ships fully decked out. Biggs Darklighter: R2-F2 Proton Torpedoes Garven Dreis: Proton Torpedoes "Dutch" Vander: R5-K6 Ion Cannon Turret Proton Torpedoes 2x I haven't tried this squad, but I really want to. Biggs needs to use R2-F2's action every round so he gets an extra defense die. Dutch will acquire target locks, allowing Garven to get target locks. Garven focuses, but attacks before Dutch to give Dutch his focus token. This allows Dutch and Garven to fire proton torpedoes with a focus token during the first volley. Biggs should concentrate on being in a position to be targeted so he can take hits instead of the other two pilots. This squad has some great synergy, but it's really hard to pull off. Still, I think it would be a fun one to try out, especially if it worked! I've tried it (though with R2-D2 instead of R2-F2), and let me tell you, it really unravels once Biggs is out of the picture. Though, in the game in question, Biggs got rolled in round 2.

That is entirely true. Because of the "crit" result, attack dice have a slight advantage over defense. Unfortunately, you only get 3/5 of that advantage against X-wings, 5/8 against Y-wings. Still, the advantage is there. I'm going to try to set up a game or two this evening against some co-workers. I'm curious to try a couple different TIE-heavy squads. One is the aforementioned 6 named TIE pilot squad. I'm curious to see how well pairing up Backstabber and Howlrunner as wingmen and splitting them off from the main pack will work. Try to slip them in behind the enemy and have Howlrunner spot for Backstabber. I'm also looking at a Vader + 4 TIE setup, with Vader having Marksmanship and Cluster Missiles. He'd serve as a Y-wing buster, effectively. And, of course….there's nothing wrong with Vader on his own, either. So, Bully….have you played your squad yet? I'm interested to hear how it shakes out.

I realized that I didn't actually say anything about your squad. I was just thinking out loud while drinking my morning coffee. I like the mix of named pilots with Academy pilots. One thing you might try is dropping Marksmanship and upgrading one of the Academy pilots to Night Beast. That free Focus is boss. Though I definitely see the benefit of Marksmanship on Mauler when he finally gets in range for that 4 die attack. I'm currently working on a very similar squad that is all 6 named TIE pilots with Marksmanship on Mauler.

I've been debating with myself for some time over the "Academy Pilot Swarm" methodology. By my estimation, you can't necessarily look at your squad as the sum of its total attack dice. Each ship you add to your squad adds that many more defense dice to your opponent's effective defense pool, since (barring some of the special abilities of named pilots), there's no way to combine Academy pilot's efforts to create a more powerful attack. On the other hand, having more disparate attacks lowers the effective power of Focus tokens for defense, as they can only be used against a single attack roll. There's little benefit to be gained from having multiple Focus tokens in a swarm, as a single Focus token is just as effective on a single attack of 4 dice as two tokens are on two attacks of 2 dice. The real benefit of the Swarm, then, must come from using Range 1 to generate much more in the way of bonus attack dice. This is a largest benefit I can imagine from a Swarm tactic. However, Academy pilots cannot go head-to-head with X-wings (and I really am only considering Imperial vs. Rebel here; Imp vs. Imp would be an even match if both were Swarm), so the ideal situation would be to use your superior numbers to slip a few of your TIEs behind the enemy. But then I get to thinking….there are all these nice named TIE pilots that have awesome abilities specifically for that exact situation (Backstabber, Mauler Mithel, etc.), and they don't cost that much more. And then I get to thinking about Batman, and I'm mostly done at that point.

But it IS relevant, for the exact reason you mentioned. If you move first and Target Lock, your target might then move out of range. Sure, you don't lose the lock, but you could have possibly had a better, more immediately-useful Action, for that turn. When you move second, you know that your Target Lock isn't going to move away.

bullyboy said: 99pts. Since I don't have super high initiative ships, going 1 pt under may help with those ties. I've actually found that having initiative isn't always a good thing, especially if you're playing Rebels. Remember that initiative means that you both attack AND move first, no matter what. Since the Rebels tend to utilize Target Locks more than Imperials, moving 2nd is advantageous a lot of the time for Rebels to make sure those Target Locks stay in range. Also, when attacking first, any pilot you have with a Focus is creating a situation where they are taking a risk based on unknown knowledge: are they going to need that Focus for defense later? Should they use it now, or risk taking extra damage? When you fire second, you have a better idea of your defensive situation before you have to make any offensive choices.

Harleequin said: Not sure how well that would work. Your ships would still be very weak, and if imperials had a higher level ship than you they still attack first, and still perform their attacks if they get ionized. The Y wing, even though the hull and the shields are great, only get 1 defence remember, you can easily take out all the shields in one turn ,and deal a damage to them or two, if you're mauler mithel with focus, or howlrunner next to him. They're gonna get their attacks regardless of whether they're ionized first or not. I think the idea with this squad would be to weather the first salvo and get behind the enemy ASAP, ionizing a couple of their ships in the process, then chain ionizing them to death. I would question the ability of the remaining ships to stop this in time to prevent the ionized ships from being destroyed.

Heh, or hell….at that point, you may as well do something like: 4x Gold Squadron Pilot 4x Ion Cannon R2-D2 R5-D8 R2 Astromech Honestly, what's the difference between 4 and 2 in most battles.

Not necessarily the most powerful or "meta", mind you….but things that are just fun, or that you think might be fun. I haven't tried it yet, but I want to give this a try: 4x Gray Squadron Pilot 4x Ion Cannon GG

Tawnos said: X-wing vs. TIE, assuming both are unharmed, is a clear disadvantage for the TIE. At that point, you're really banking on the dice gods smiling upon you. Even if you could slip in behind the X-wing, chances are very good that you're going to wind up head-to-head sooner rather than later, unless the X-wing player has an irrational fear of Koiogran turns. cleardave said: Something I think nobody really touched on here, is that, at a glance, a TIE Fighter is just at a disadvantage with a straight up one-on-one fight with an X-Wing, so I can see why someone would be reluctant to try and take the X-Wing head on….. Having said that, if this is what the match came down to, 1 on 1 like that, and you're statistically going to end up dead, you might as well go all in and pray to the dice gods that the X-Wing rolls poorly for its attacks. Who hasn't touched on what now?

And once you consider that X-wing packs aren't randomized miniatures/pilot cards like some other minis games, it's actually quite a bit cheaper to play.

Ah, probably not. This is just a fevered dream of mine. I do think that they're fairly simple and in the spirit of the game, though.

DagobahDave said: Anyone who's played using the full rules will tell you that TIEs are more maneuverable than the Rebel ships. See, this is very subjective and situational. Yes, TIEs have a higher top speed and, in general, can make sharper turns. This doesn't make them more maneuverable than X-wings. It's very easy to make a TIE overshoot its target by flying slow, as they can't make a straight 1. And I can't tell you how many times I've desperately wished I could perform a soft 1 bank in a TIE. Maneuverability is incredibly situational, and I don't see the TIEs as necessarily have a general advantage in that regard.

Daveydavedave said: Tawnos: there is a 180 degree turn… the immelman aka koiogran I agree that turning to "catch" your opponent is kinda silly. Both players can chase all day long, or the rebel player can get smart and just move away at full speed. It's almost always better for an X-Wing to take a movement round or 2 to get distance and then close again on the tie. Distance creates a situation where barrel rolls are largely useless and the tie has no hope of getting behind the x-wing. Meanwhile the x-wing has time to lock and focus. Then the best the tie can hope for is a head on fire fight (assuming a 1v1 fight with no asteroids etc). Daveydavedave said: Tawnos: there is a 180 degree turn… the immelman aka koiogran I know. I meant that I could see them adding a 180 degree ARC turn template.

Whoops, you're quite correct. I forgot about the 3 Koiogran turn the TIEs can do.

JustinKase said: But, whatever you do, do not kick the ball! Hutts don't have feet! Show our sponsor Giradda the respect he deserves.

Okay. That makes me sense. That you guys were presenting the situation in a canned scenario was misleading to me. The word "abstraction" gets thrown around a lot on here, and while it might seem a cop-out, I have to go with it in this scenario. Yes, TIE Fighters are a bit more maneuverable than X-wings (outside of atmo, anyways). Even so, game simplicity is more desirable than realism in my mind, and restricting ships to 45/90 degree turns I feel was a good decision on the designer's part. I COULD see there being a 180 degree arc turn at some point. It's worth mentioning that all ships have the same number of maneuvers due to the design of the dials. Thus, the only differences in maneuverability come from how many of those moves are green and red. Other than green/red distinctions, the only differences are in what maneuvers ships can perform, and there will always been something one ship can do that another can't, and vice versa. For example, a TIE Fighter can perform a sharp 1 turn whereas a X-wing can't, but at the same time, an X-wing can perform a soft 1 whereas a TIE cannot.

I understand the scenario you just outlined. But I don't understand the point of analyzing a scenario where the actions of the opponent (in this case, the X-wing) are pre-scripted. There's an awful lot of "ifs" and assumptions made in that scenario about what the X-wing player will do. At the very least, making the third hard left 3 is, arguably, a boneheaded move, as it puts your back to the TIE who can easy turn into pursuit. I guess if the entire scenario is predicated on the fact that the X-wing player will continue making hard left 3 turns, then….okay, sure. But that's not a very interesting scenario to consider. X-wing vs. TIE, assuming both are unharmed, is a clear disadvantage for the TIE. At that point, you're really banking on the dice gods smiling upon you. Even if you could slip in behind the X-wing, chances are very good that you're going to wind up head-to-head sooner rather than later, unless the X-wing player has an irrational fear of Koiogran turns.

I'm a bit confused about your desired outcome for this situation. It sounds like you're looking for a full-proof way to wind up behind the X-wing, as you've stated that a head-to-head path would be undesirable, and (obviously) ending up with the X-wing behind you would be less than optimal. Unfortunately, there's no guaranteed way to make this happen. It sounds like the entire scenario is predicated on the fact that you know the X-wing will continue making sharp 2 turns. And you simply can't know that. Hell, if I were one on one in an X-wing vs. a TIE, I wouldn't keep trying to loop around on it. I'd pull out of the loop with a straight 4, try to get as much distance as I could, pull a Koiogran turn, and force a head-on-head fight, where the X-wing has a decided advantage. If I were in the TIE, my thought process would be much the same. Get out of there with a straight 5, outrun the X-wing, get turned around, and play chicken, hoping the X-wing misjudges which way I'll turn, allowing me to slip in behind it. Unfortunately, in the stated situation, if you're the one in the TIE, you're at a disadvantage, plain and simple.

I've been having similar experiences with the Proton Torpedos being less than effective, though I suspect that I've just had a string of bad luck. I'm not ready to box them up quite yet, though. Looking at them compared to a primary attack, I think they're still worth the potential payoff. As with any situation, more dice = more entropy. You might have a Torp that rolls complete crap, and one that rolls all crits. I've seen both. To offset the potential for crappulence, I would recommend against firing Torps in the round that you acquired the Target Lock, and instead wait until you can acquire a Focus to go with them. This is why the Garven / Dutch combo works so well.

SteveSpikes said: I would also include a bonus in squad building in the form of pilots costing -x (I'll leave it to you to plug in the revised cost) to your squad. Do you mean to say that specific pilots would get a small point reduction if put in an appropriate squad? Such as having Wedge in Rogue Squadron? That's an interesting concept. May be a bit difficult to implement, because you could (in theory) generate a situation where using the Squadron card becomes a net gain in squad points instead of an expenditure. @Justin: Yeah, there's all kinds of neat stuff you can do with them. In fact, the Squadron cards themselves don't necessarily have to represent a specific Squadron; they could instead reference a squadron strategy or tactic, like this: Bomber Escort (3 points) Protect the Huttball Squad Requirements: 1 Y-wing, 2 X-wings If 2 allied X-wings are within Range 1-2 of an allied Y-wing, increase the Y-wing's Agility by 1. This way, you can have mixed-ship Squadron cards.

Did anyone here used to play Overpower waaaaay back in the day? I was thinking about the game the other day, and an idea hit me. Do you remember the Teamwork cards that allowed several of your heroes to work together to perform an attack, provided they met the requirements of the Teamwork card? This got me thinking about X-wing squadrons and how their training together is not really reflected in the game. Thus, I came up with the idea of Squadron cards. They basically represent tactics and abilities that result from a squadron having trained and worked together. You can have 1 Squadron card for your squad in a game, and your squad must match the requirements of the Squadron card, though it may have more ships than the card's requirement. Here's a few examples of what I have in mind (I have not even considered power balance for these; they've just mechanical examples): Rogue Squadron (4 points) Trust Your Wingman Squad Requirement: 3 X-wings One per round, a X-wing pilot may spend the Focus token of an allied X-wing pilot at Range 1-2 as though it were his own. Red Squadron (3 points) Run Interference Squad Requirement: 4 X-wings If an attacking ship's firing arc to any part of the defending X-wing's base passes through an allied X-wing, you may assign (at most) 1 point of damage done to the allied X-wing. Gold Squadron (3 points) Share Targeting Data Squad Requirement: 2 Y-wings Once per round, when a Y-wing fires a Proton Torpedo, if an allied Y-wing has already fired a Proton Torpedo at the same target this round, you may (once) reroll any number of dice on the attack. Black Squadron (3 points) Suppression Fire Squad Requirement: 3 TIE Fighters Once per round, a TIE Fighter pilot may forego their attack to give an allied TIE Fighter at Range 1-2 one additional attack die for the round. Academy Elite (2 points) Sensor Data Assist Squad Requirement: 4 TIE Fighters If a TIE Fighter would pass through an obstacle, if there is an allied TIE Fighter within Range 1 at the beginning of movement, the TIE Fighter may pass through the obstacle at no penalty. Obsidian Squadron (4 points) Advanced Training Squad Requirement: 2 TIE Advanced A TIE Advanced pilot may use the Action of an Upgrade card of any allied TIE Advanced pilot within Range 1-2. Thoughts?

This thread has a breakdown of numbers for various situations: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=254&efcid=6&efidt=712597 Now, that of course doesn't factor in the value of Focus being usable for attack, but Evade definitely seems to have a higher upside for defensive purposes. I'd definitely go with Evade over Focus in situations where you're not going to end up with any firing arcs.

Oh, not true. I can be "in" Chicago in 2 hours, with a full tank of gas and a little luck on I-65.