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Wilbry

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  1. People whinged about lasguns needing a boost, now people are whinging about bolt guns, next it will be plasma guns. This is a classic example of power level creep. Bolt guns are significantly better than lasguns (on max setting): They do more damage, have more penetration, are more reliable, and have more clip. They are superior in nearly every aspect. If they were only slightly better in one or two areas then you might be excused for making the assertion…but that is not the case. It's like moving next to an airport and then complaining about the noise. If you boost the basic gun in power of course it will close the power gap between it and the premium gun, but enhancing everything doesn't accomplish anything sensible. Why not give everyone 15,000 hp and have weapons do 200-1000 damage while you are at it? If you really think the bolt gun is not "better enough" compared to the lasgun then readjust the lasgun again.
  2. To further labour the point… a cleric is an administrative role within the western churches, not a military class of divine bad-assness. If people got hung up on piddly details like actual meaning we would never have rogues, nor sorcerers. To bring it back to 40K, Space Marines have no water-based aspect to their training/purpose. I think the point we are all trying to make is that it's just a label, and in RPGs reality and history, even language, all take a back seat to game design. In OW the Seargant is what he is. It is a tag which evokes certain 40k themes which the designers wish to bring into the game. In that regard it is more appropriate than a generic "officer" or "leader" archetype such as you might find in a system like d20 modern. You are having a problem because you are more familiar with the more popular, non-40k, differences between the sarge and officer than you are with 40K fluff and you feel the stereotypes you have are too strong for you to overcome. That isn't the fault of the game design.
  3. I have never seen sparse jungle… But it is just a game, if its an issue for your players then deal with it, but if everyone is ok with unimpressed movement through jungle then that will enable to put your focus where the players DO want more details.
  4. Wilbry

    Debriefing

    vogue69 said: How do you handle the debriefing? Let's say your troops did something heretical or they ran from opponents, sold gear for drugs or learned some psy-powers during the mission. How do you decide if they get away with it? I would do whatever makes for an enjoyable story for everyone. As JuankiMan said, if your group enjoys the 40K fluff AND if the group would find the process engaging, then "debrief" them. If the debrief would complicate things and players are at risk of losing their characters (and the players don't want that to happen) then gloss over it, or go easy on them. It is not necessarily about appropriate cause and effect, it's about what the group thinks is a good outcome for the 4 hours they spent RPing.
  5. Kasatka said: Remember that not only is this sci-fi so you need to ignore all your real life prejudices, but it is also the grim dark 41st millenium where countless things we take for granted are lost to mankind, yet there are planets full of cyborgs devoted to technology, starships that can cross lightyears in a matter of minutes and advanced laser, plasma and microwave technologies. Just because a fancy laser rifle doesn't line up with people's personal feelings on modern, 21st century firearms doesn't mean the book has it wrong per se… Yeah I get all that. But the bullpup is a modern aspect that has been introduced in recent times and it was introduced as a bullpup, drawing upon popular conceptions of the weapon in modern media. In that regard it is perfectly fine for me to draw on modern comparison. Also the branding as a bullpup signifys it's that aspect that defines the weapon. That aspect is not realised by the stats. So it's not that I'm hanging to real life perspectives and 40K is fantasy, I just want the weapon to reflect its name. Having said all that I really the idea of making both guns usable in melee. I think perhaps that a carbine quality which says "this basic weapon can be used in melee". This reflects the compact nature, doesn't tread on pistol territory, and satisfies my need to define the guns as something different.
  6. I think The Psychic section needs a good going over by the writers. At present I think the two systems (fear and psychic phenomenon) were developed separately whereas they really need tone integrated more, or at least edited for consistency. I would suggest simply forgetting the two entries in the PP table which mention Fear Tests and proceeding as normal. So you would apply Fear tests where appropriate and not feel bound by those anomalous entries.
  7. Danayel said: Perhaps he and his men should sneak up to the tree line as the hellhound attacks and then fire their salvo and charge. Then have him race the 50 meters across the clearing. This is the most sensible solution given the adventure paramaters. People might also want to consider reducing the size of the fort to say 100m a side just for practicality's sake (especially if the characters dont have micro-beads), and pushing the clear zone out to 100m to give the players an opportunity to miss a few times, because they will - when the orcs get to hand to hand, PCs start to die pretty quick.
  8. I agree with, and support, these thoughts of the OP.
  9. GUNNER"S COMRADE ADVANCE: STABILISE All-in-all I think the power itself is well balanced and provides a different option against Bulging Biceps. My reasoning is: (a) it costs the gunner 300xp and BB costs the Gunner 450xp and, at best, costs 300xp (if a character had both Aptitudes) (b) they do similar bonuses - they both affect Bracing modifiers. Stabilise now negates semi-auto/full-auto penalties and instead give a +10 bonus which is very significant. BB merely avoids the non-bracing penalty and provides a +20 bonus to Hefting. Stabilise is the better choice but is restricted to Gunners only which is good. BUT I think Stabilise is a bit, "really?". I'm kinda underwhelmed by the idea of using the Comrade as a human bipod and it being more stable than a concrete window ledge. Here is an alternative Comrade Advance I have put to my Gaming Group. Malfunction Drill Type: Order (Full Action) Cost: 300 xp Effect: The Gunner and his Comrade have trained in perfect unity with their weapons. If a Jam result occurs, the Gunner’s Comrade gives the Character a reroll on his Ballistics’s Skill Test to unjam the weapon.
  10. @Musclewizard - This line of games has several 2% and 3% bonuses from things like trappings in Deathwatch, and weapon customisation in Only War (modified stock). I agree there are a lot of modifiers in a Warhammer RPG but I am not adding to the mess as my proposal replaces the otherwise esoteric bonus of the carbine - and frankly, 10% bonuses are just a +2 on your D20 system, how is that less annoying? I am merely offering a different interpretation on how to represent bullpups and carbines. There is no interfering with any rules (I'm not redefining suppression fire for instance), simply a redesign (standardisation) of the stats and two additional, very simple, qualities (which could as easily have just been notes on the weapon itself, just like carbines currently are). In reality its a very minor difference and doesn't have a big effect on real-lie "to hit bonuses", but since FFG put them in the game I thought they should reflect their essential nature. Currently, they look more like earlier lasgun models, with less range and lower rate of fire, so would be better described as such. If you want bullpups and carbines, then make them act as carbines, not cheap rouge trader ripoffs bought from the back of a valkyrie. @Andor - thanks for the input, I think additional qualities and similar variations are one of the staples of FFG design - look at weapon customisation, which is just adding minor qualities of the players choice. It is one of the ways to bring new content and keep things "fresh" - and what about how many squad modes they brought for Deathwatch! I wasn't looking for an excuse to add qualities, but I felt a quality was the best method of spelling out game-mechanic details that are sometimes put in the equipment notes (i.e. carbines). Unusual Layout was really just a minor quality meant to provide a natural feeling restriction that encouraged bullpups not to be the weapon of choice in all regards and reflected that most guardsmen would be unfamiliar with them. Regarding "Close Combat", you are right, it is the wrong name. I really just wanted to emphasize the primary benefit, and I obviously have a different interpretation of the meaning. Perhaps "Carbine" might be a better overall name for the quality. Your (and Woodclaws) suggestion is easier to understand but I thought it took away from the benefit of the pistol which is why I went with expressing it differently. The logic being that carbines are quicker to bring to a firing position than rifles so you get a free "micro-aim" with every standard attack. Yes, I know in reality some weapons are better than others, and the idea presented here was meant to provide that exact balance you mentioned. I think the bullpup design superior in real-life, but it is uncommon and unfamiliar to most people, so I attempted to balance the benefit with the negative in a meaningful way - apparently I missed the mark though… @Santiago - I like your lateral thinking, but If I did that, then I would be changing the "standard". I think game design is best approached from the traditional "humans are normal and everyone else has stats changed accordingly" theory. In this case, M36 lasguns are the standard, so it is variations that should have the change. It keeps things simple for all concerned and gives that verisimilitude between what people see as normal (the everyday lasgun) and thus regard as less complex (minimal additional notes). @Woodclaw - Perhaps it might be better to have "carbines" be a basic weapon that can be used in melee? That way the pistol still retains the benefit of being one-handed, and carbines get their place in the world. @Kasatka - A main reason for starting on this idea was to ditch the one-handed penalty modifier! On the whole I like your suggestions in making the guns both playable options compared to the lasgun. If we were just doing a general redesign of those two weapons to make them both viable (and not worrying about the names and their meanings) I would agree with what you put forward. Yes I agree, putting those differences in the flavour text is in line with FFG procedure - I just find it messy when combined with qualities. NOTE - Implementing the above changes would still not solve the problem for me as the guns, while now viable choices, are still not carbines and bullpups. Bullpups are not faster to reload, they are slower to reload IF you are unfamiliar with them, and they can still have melee attachments. Carbines may be easier to use one-handed, but really? that is NOT the benefit they bring to the table, surely we as gamers can come up with a more intuitive solutions?
  11. An excellent example of using the background material and creative RPing to get more out of the adventure. Thanks for sharing!
  12. AFTER ACTION REPORT Here is what I did when my group came to this part of the mission: I gave the "Downed Valkyrie" scene as a bonus for succeeding by more than three Degrees on both Navigation Tests they had to make to get to the Refinery, allowing them to potentially earn additional rewards and still arrive at the base without penalty. I made the "Dark Hunters" scene an encounter to illustrate the dangers of the trip, which could be avoided by successful navigation rolls (allowing the characters to observe they avoided the encounter due to successful checks). I enhanced the setback for three or more Degrees of Failure by having the squad arrive at the base after nightfall to illustrate the importance of being competent in soldiering skills, and the advantage of obtaining additional equipment outside their Regimental Kit (such as magnoculars and night-vision) This seems to have been very successful and added a greater sense of both immersion and cause & effect to the game.
  13. My gaming group loves Comrades. They add a unique element and really help to establish the feel of being a Guardsman . Here are some options we think add to the utility of the common Guardsman Comrade: Order: Suppress That! (Half Action) A Comrade adds -5% penalty to Pinning Tests and +1 RoF when making attacks within the area of fire. Talent: FIRETEAM LEADER Tier: 2 Prerequisite: Fellowship 40 Aptitudes: Fellowship, Leadership The character has command potential and has been promoted to Fireteam Leader. This character can have up to four Guardsman attached. Each Comrade adds his bonus as normal. When issuing a Comrade Order the character issues the same order to all Guardsman attached to him and within Cohesion. Notes & Reasoning: The Suppression mechanic is merely a continuation of establish buffs and abilities of Comrades. Initially we had the comrade add only +5% to Pinning Tests but we feel the extra attack is also relevant and not over-powered when compared to a heavy weapon such as the Heavy Stubber. Allowing multiple comrades to stack bonuses on to character actions seems perfectly fine and helps develop the power of the character without making him some super-hero capable of taking on a Chaos Marine single-handed. Assuming the characters had their Class Comrade Advances, this means an Operator with the Fireteam Leader Talent could operate a Leman Russ Tank "by himself". For a Medic with the Talent, this mean the character could offer extended care to a larger number of patients using Medicae Auxilia but he could still only treat one person at time with Field Treatment, although his comrades could be in position to treat a different character each turn.
  14. Below are my suggestions for how bullpups and carbines could be successfully implemented in ONLY WAR. This assumes that carbines are simply a varient pattern of the parent weapon (in this case the lasgun), and that bullpups are a more advanced carbine. Carbines are shortened versions of the parent weapon designed to reduce the footprint of the weapon upon the soldier - making it lighter, easier to carry and manoeuvre in confined areas. Bullpups are a further development of the carbine where the benefits of the weight and manoeuvrability are retained but without the loss of range and accuracy that a carbine suffers. With all that in mind here is how we utilise the idea of these weapons to enable more variety and viable options to the player while still holding true to the imagery and conceptualisation of what the average gamer considers a "carbine" or "bullpup": Bullpup reduce the weight of the weapon by 10%, give the weapon the close combat quality, give the weapon the unusual layout quality. Carbine reduce the weight of the weapon by 20%, give the weapon the close combat quality, reduce the range of the weapon by 50%. Close Combat The weapon is designed for use in confined spaces and thus can be more easily and quickly brought to bare on a target. The character receives a +5% bonus to BS when making a Standard Attack with this weapon. Unusual Layout The weapon has a configuration uncommon within the Imperium and those unfamiliar with it find it awkward to operate. If the character does not have this weapon as part the character's Regimental Kit the reload time for this weapon is increased by a Half Action. Design Notes These observations and ideas are the result of playtesting ONLY WAR within our gaming group of 20+ years gaming experience, with the additional input of an Australian Army rifleman with 5+ years experience. We have found weight considerations to be a legitimate issue for an Imperial Guardsman so every 0.5kg counts, as it can mean carrying that extra clip or grenade in your Assault Kit. Also, in-line with these standardisations of the carbine, consider a shoulder-stock upgrade for pistols: Collapsible Stock The weapon has been fitted with a folding stock so as a Half Action it can be turned from a Pistol into a Basic weapon (or vice versa). When acting as a Basic Weapon the weapon gains the close combat quality. Increase the weight of this weapon by 0.5kg. Applies to: Any pistol.
  15. Why are we making the squad do Navigation skill tests? The trip takes 12 hours, 10 if they do well at Navigating, 14+ if they get off-track or delayed by encounters - but who cares? These checks should be made relevant or discarded as they currently serve only give the impression that the Navigation is a useful skill. The same goes for the Navigation skill tests to find the wreckage. If they fail the check, does that mean they miss the encounter or simply have to try again until they make it? If the later, what is the point? My suggestion is to give consequences to the checks: The trip takes 12 hours so give more emphasis to the start time of the mission (morning or pre-dawn). The trip can then arrive at the refinery at night if they make normal time, a couple of hours before dusk if they do really well, or not until dawn if they are too tardy. Perhaps give additional consequences for doing well or doing too poorly. A positive consequence might be a depletion of the refinery garrison as it leaves to go on patrol. A negative consequence might be encountering a patrol from the garrison which, if they do not silence, will tip the garrison to the squad's presence. The time should perhaps also impact the amount of prep the squad has before the warboss arrives. This allows for a difference in tactical thinking for the group with a gradual reduction in options depending on how they do.
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