Zut the Overlady reacted to any2cards in Observations and thoughts
I find this interesting. Experience, at least for my group of heroes, has demonstrated that maximizing their gold (whether this be through searching everything available), winning quests that provide additional gold, etc. has more often than not been the deciding factor as to whether or not they ultimately win the overall campaign.
If they don't get sufficient gold, they don't have the opportunity to by the shop items that will be necessary to be competitive, especially in ACT II quests and the finale. This in turn can lead to a snowball effect as the quests proceed.
In point of fact, I cannot remember a single quest that we played, where the heroes were able to win the overall campaign, without having been reasonable successful in getting to all search tokens, and maximizing their gold in other ways.
As far as the OL is concerned, I think it simply takes time to develop the strategies necessary to be competitive in Descent 2. There are so many things that you can try, so many approaches you can take, that I am always testing out new things.
One example. Our group was, and still is, big fans of Descent First Edition. It is a completely different game, and many of the skills, tricks, etc. learned as both OL and Heroes simply don't translate to Descent Second Edition. But, because I was willing to try new things all the time in Descent Second Edition, I learned something.
Specifically, in Descent First Edition, an OL can customize his deck utilizing something called treachery. In order to customize and add cards by spending treachery, you had to discard something from the base deck on a card for card basis. One of the cards I almost always got rid of was Kobold Spawn cards, because those monsters in Descent First Edition just didn't play very well. So after many, many hours/days/months/years of playing the game, it became a typical strategy.
When I purchased Descent Second Edition, and because I had everything to First Edition, I bought the Conversion Kit so that I could use all of the monsters from First Edition. Well, because of past experience, I had a very low opinions of Kobolds, and thus never used them as an open group while playing Second Edition. Then one day, I decided to change things up on my heroes, and play some open groups I had never played before, just to try things, and develop new strategies. One of those open groups I employed was Kobolds. And long and behold, while they were next to worthless in First Edition, they had some very applicable strengths in Second Edition. So not only did I learn some new strategies, I added another open group to my repertoire, not to mention the fact that the Kobolds generated some SERIOUSLY funny moments, both for myself and my heroes.
I remember one encounter where we were all laughing so **** hard we had to stop playing for a while because nobody could do anything but laugh.
And that I think is the most important thing ... whatever you do, have fun playing the game. I don't mind trying things, even crazy things, even if I end up getting my butt handed to me ... because sometimes, I am enlightened with what I tried, and many times I get a good laugh out of it !
Zut the Overlady reacted to Kunzite in Can you have fun if you are not winning?
Wow. Not sure if I should be honored or horrified that I am the prime example here. Um, thank you?
And yes, my players get surprised by the amount of adaptability I can have (and using the re spec quest to change my entire deck before I failed in a giant pile of dumb). And I am normally that person that can have fun win or lose. That is why I am the overlord. We went through all of LoR and a rumor with me winning only 3 games only to come in the end and sweep the final. I have fun no matter. Most of my heroes do as well.
There are two things to be said here: How can I help you and Everything sucks because I lost. I feel ya, any2cards.There is allot of ninny smacking around here where a good deal of people don't put on their "big boy pants" and deal. There are allot of new players that come in and say "hey wait! this doesn't seem right or I am just a really bad player!" and then there are the "wait! *points to board game geeks* there is a way to fix that!" So, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water! Please?
I am one to have fun almost no matter what. I have a theory on why I roll so well (and it's a no for cursing the dice or loading them). And my "good game play" is very much instinctual. I go with "what feels right" in any strategy game. That's why I am not good with Magic deck building(don't mean I don't have fun trying!). And with that, I have fun.
I think we need a thread about how to help the experience to be more fun, win or lose. That is if people are upset they spent 60+ bucks on the base set and whatever exorbitant amount on the following and still lacking the fun factor.
So, yes. Let's put the smack down for a moment. Players that have fun no matter what, what do you do that makes the game more fun for you and your group? I want to know! And I think it would do the rest of our hearts to hear it!
Zut the Overlady reacted to any2cards in Can you have fun if you are not winning?
I don't think this is ever a true statement. I have been on both sides (OL and Heroes) where one side or the other loses the majority and/or all of the quests until the finale, and then the losing side wins the finale and wins the whole **** campaign. Granted, it is rare, but it has happened.
And even if it doesn't, utilize the time of the remainder of the campaign to try new strategies with what you have (different combinations of cards, etc. as the OL or different actions/turns as the heroes).
If I am getting my *&^ handed to me, I try all kinds of new things ... things I have never ever attempted, even things that at first blush make no sense. Often, they don't work out at all, but at least I am learning and gathering information, in an attempt to improve. And every once in a while, I surprise if not down right shock myself or the heroes with some strategy that actually does end up making a big impact. Now I have a new tool to use in future campaigns.
All I am saying is that in a game where you can actually LOSE EVERY single ACT I quest, the Interlude, and every ACT 2 quest, and still have a chance to win by taking the finale, you should never be giving up.
Zut the Overlady reacted to any2cards in Can you have fun if you are not winning?
I am a professional poker player. If you know anything about this profession, then you know there is a term called "tilt". This forum puts me on massive tilt.
I own Descent 1e and all of its expansions and Descent 2e and all of its expansions. We play the game frequently. I am generally the Overlord, but have played heroes as well. In my group, whether we win or we lose, we can all have fun and enjoy the game.
If the threads in this forum are any indication, we are very, very much in the minority.
/BEGIN RANT - BEGIN TILT - BEGIN TL;DR
This forum, and many of its posts, never cease to amaze me. If the heroes or the Overlord come up with some interesting strategy, some mechanic fully legal within the rules, etc. to overcome a desperate situation, and allow them to march towards victory, the other side instantly claims something is broken or unbalanced.
It could be the rules, a monster's abilities, a hero's skills, etc. I am willing to bet that somewhere around 50% of all threads within this forum have this exact discussion on-going.
Today, I read a new thread about a particularly skilled OL named Kunzite who found a way to use an OL deck and available monster open groups to take advantage of the skills, weapons, and abilities of the heroes she was competing against by making solid use of Infector. Everything within the rules ... just good gaming. As a result, some of the posters instantly point to something being "broken". I mean, after all, their Treasure Hunter had allowed them to get 10-12 of the best weapons/armor/others available, and they still lost.
Of course there was no mention of the fact that Treasure Hunter was broken, by allowing them to get all of these goodies. Oh no, it was that **** Infector class ... how, after all, could we have lost? Note that Kunzite didn't complain when the heroes got all of these goodies ... she simply adjusted her style and strategies to take advantage of how her heroes were playing. In other words, just good gaming. And this is just one small example of what happens within this forum every **** day.
Why is it that when one side or the other is losing or loses (either by a small or large margin), that side typically claims that something is "wrong" with the game or that there is a balance issue, or that something is broken?
If you don't like what is happening, adjust your strategies, choose different heroes and/or classes, or different OL decks - i.e. change things up. Perhaps in future quests/encounters of the same campaign you willing give up in encounter 1 to simply get more gold, or you forgo the gold and go for the win (for a relic or more gold or more XP or ?). Perhaps in the next campaign, you choose a different mix heroes or skills or ?
It just seems to me that most of the posters within this forum can't have fun gaming unless they win, or unless they are all on the same side (such as a co-operative effort).
Grow up. If you don't like what's happening, learn new strategies, play better, etc. Much like in poker, talk with people who seem to have more success, learn from them, and apply what you learn. It is possible to learn and have fun, even when you are losing.
It actually is funny how two forums within the same site can be so different. I also play and participate in the Star Wars X-Wing forum. In that forum, people share strategies and tips as to how to perform better in the game. If they do mention things they think are wrong or unbalanced with the game, it is usually in the context of how to counter act them, and not as a complaint for losing. Wish this forum was more like that.
/END RANT - END TILT - END TL;DR