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Everything posted by Erithtotl

  1. A related question: Advantages and Threat are pretty easy to deal with in combat, since there are clear tables for how to spend them. But in situation like picking a lock, what does 4 advantages mean? Do people generally just treat any advantages as 'advantage' in this situation? Because it seems like quantifying the value of 2 vs 4 advantage is time consuming and confusing a lot of the time.
  2. "Cite what you think are the boring ones. " Everything that is a highly situational plus or minus one boost/black die to a single skill, often taken to get to the talent you actually want. "Your GM is failing at his job. He should be throwing all kinds of black dice at you - rain, being rushed, lack of tools, darkness, in the middle of a combat, drunk as a skunk - every chance he can get. Mind you, he should also be throwing blues your way too, it's not all one sided. So if these talents aren't coming into play, your GM sucks." This kind of toxic comment is what I had just complimented this forum for not falling back on. So my good friend, who is the GM, and is highly intelligent and played a lot of different systems, because he's not throwing 'tons of black and boost dice' at us, despite the book never suggesting that this is the way to play, sucks. It's this kind of attitude that, rather than compelling people who are trying to find a way to adjust to this system, instead bail on it altogether.
  3. I think I could comfortably split the issues into two categories. There's the narrative / stylistic aspects like destiny points and advantages and threats. Then there's mechanical choices like wounds, stim packs and talent trees. For the former, I think it is the mindset change that you are all talking about. Even after 5 sessions we haven't gotten comfortable with the players describing die results rather than the GM and we still take the general adversarial relationship that D20 encourages (thus the issues around destiny points). But for the latter, I think I can argue that the design decisions are not great. The wound/absorption/stimpack potion spam is not Star Wars flavor at all. I agree you can't make it play just like the movies because people only get hit in the movie when the plot demands it. But I think they could have come up with a better mechanic here that makes it feel less like someone in heavy armor enduring blaster shot after blaster shot and then drinking a health potion when they are hurt. As for talent trees, I think making the low level talents more interesting and actual grant you things you can do rather than tiny situational modifiers that can end up never occurring is pretty boring. You could say 'well Weapon Focus is just a +1 to hit and thats boring in D20', but at least you are likely going to use it every session. Removing a negative die from a skill where you might not have a negative die occur in a given session isn't very satisfying and I think could have been done a lot better.
  4. Something like this makes sense. Makes me wonder why it wasn't how it was designed in the first place. I'm just trying to get away from the 'hit points and healing potion spam' feel of the standard rules.
  5. Irrelevant. my poiny is they dont get hit. whether that is the incompetence of enemies or the power of the force or whatever, they dont get hit. Even with cover the average minion is going to hit a player without a dodge talent about 30-40% of the time, for a lot of damage, and most significantly there is nothing you can do about it.
  6. I feel like I made it pretty clear. Its not Star Wars. In Star Wars, people don't run around getting shot constantly and popping drugs, or using super heavy armor to resist damage. They dodge, they take cover, and the bad guys generally are terribly inaccurate against heroes. The game already makes minions easy to kill, but they still hit for full damage, which doesn't fit the Star Wars universe at all. You described it perfectly. In the movies (or Clone Wars for that matter), you can count on ONE HAND the number of times a major character gets shot. A system where you ROUTINELY take most of your hits in damage every fight doesn't in the slightest represent Star Wars. The wound/soak system feels a lot more like playing Diablo, where I'm spamming the 'potion' button in the middle of a fight.
  7. First, I want to thank everyone who has chimed in. I know when someone comes in and says bad things about your game there is a tendency to get real hostile and people have been pretty cool about this conversation. I am actually the person in our group who is trying to make an argument for staying with the game. Unfortunately the only real strong argument I can find to sticking with it is Star Wars (and we have people arguing to go with the old d20 rules instead). The points people have raised about destiny points and advantages/threat are well taken. I can see it being an adjustment period and learning curve. While I get the explanations about wounds and getting hit, I don't really like them. Its definitely not intuitive, especially with the amount of damage that weapons can inflict. The game assumes you are going to get hit, and hit a lot (without various dodge talents, you will get hit roughly half the time, and the damage will often be at least half your hits. Even with cover you are getting hit 30-40% of the time, and this is by minions!). The soak mechanic in other games is very much about absorbing damage. Stimpacks basically don't exist in the movies, so making them a key part of the mechanics just seems like real bad game design. Imagine if in the movies every scene the characters were slapping on stims? It just feels like they didn't design this combat system for Star Wars but another game and slapped it on here. Again, back to the Force, I don't want a Jedi. I just want someone who is equally competent at basic tasks that they are supposed to be good at and that isn't the case. I do think its possible that our progression has been too slow, but someone mentioned after 5+ sessions you should be an effective force user, and that would imply 120 xp minimum to get the 2nd force die and that means a pretty fast progression, even assuming you dumped every point into the force tree and raised no skills or other effects. And of course a lot of force talents require skill checks even after you've successful gotten force points. I'm making a last ditch attempt to the group to salvage the game. In addition to some obvious suggestions around Destiny Points and Adv/threat, I'm suggesting the following: Restrict stimpacks to 1/day unless administered by a doctor. Allow engineers to repair ships after combat at a much reduced cost if given correct facilities, and allow them to scavenge parts to make weapon mods (take a little damage to your ship, and you are basically instantly broke, and weapon mods cost more than most weapons) Increase the amount of XP given out (I think our progression is too slow, by about %33) The big one: Reduce minion base damage by half. Compensate by having a few more minions per fight. The will reduce the number of 5, 6 or more damage per hit that minions can score pretty frequently in a fight, reducing the need for stimpacks. I'm not super hopeful. The main issue is no one is finding anything about the game mechanics particularly 'Star Wars', basically making them want to at best port the 'fluff' to another system that people are more comfortable with like d20.
  8. 1) I don't think the GM really would retaliate at us out of spite for Destiny Points. It only feels that way because each session it starts so horribly skewed towards the Dark Side. I honestly think the GM doesnt use them because it feels cruel. I'm not kidding, EVERY session its at least 1 to 2 ratio of light to dark side and usually worse. Last couple have been 2:5 and 2:6. Is this by design? 2) In general, I think 'suck early, get awesome late', ala 1st Edition D&D Wizard, has generally become a no no in game design. 3) I get that people are making 'interpretations' in order to explain the soak mechanic in Star Wars terms. But it sounds like basically bending over backwards to explain a mechanic that doesn't really make sense. 4) Just how much combat should be in this game? Perhaps we have misinterpreted how we are 'supposed' to be playing. But it'd take like 3 combats per day for stimpacks to start becoming an issue most likely. 5) I does seem like we need to simplify the interpretation of the advantages/disadvantages. Frankly we've found it exhausting and limiting rather than encouraging narrative. It makes us wonder why we need these fancy dice and yearning for a good old d20. 6) Rolling dice once per round to give an advantage or disadvantage isn't very interesting. The pilot gets choices at least. Everyone else likely has one or maybe two options if they have a lot of technical skills. I know people who like this game are very aggressive to defend it and I understand that. We've all played a LOT of RPGs. My GM is very experienced and I'm a very experienced GM as well, so its not like we don't know how to play RPGs. We have both struggled with this and it may be this just isn't the system for us even though we love Star Wars. One other issue I mentioned is that a lot of low tier talents feel like bad MMO level ups. Gain a boost die in this very narrow circumstance. Remove a black die once per day, etc. It's only until you get deep into the trees that have any influence on how you might play. It feels tedious and unrewarding.
  9. We've been playing sporadically in an Edge of Empire game for the last few months. We've had some good fun but we've had the following issues come up, and I'd love to hear people's opinions and observations about how to handle them. 1) Destiny Points haven't really been working well for us. Every session, when we roll the dice, we end up with WAY more dark side than light side, like usually something like 2 to 6 (for a 5 person group). The result is we never want to use them for fear that the GM will start heavily retaliating. Perhaps the course here is for the GM to routinely burn a bunch early, but its not like we are regularly crushing all challenges before us, so this could be debilitating resulting in failure after failure. The game is already rigged against players, in that even dice on both sides has a higher chance of failure than succeed. 2) Force users suck. I know that the force sensitive exile is not supposed to make you a jedi, or even a shadow of one. But it requires so much XP to be even mildly useful, meanwhile nerfing everything else the character could do. I think the biggest frustration is that the FSE tree is very specific. If you aren't taking a perception/streetwise type build you are wasting points moving you way through the tree. If it was more flexible on where the bonuses go it would feel way less wasteful. 3) Soak v. dodge. This is a big pet peeve in that in the Star Wars fiction and movies the main characters basically dodge almost everything, while getting hit is very rare. But the combat system for EotE, dodging is non-existent and its all about wearing super heavy armor. This just doesn't feel 'star wars' at all. 4) Stimpacks are awesome. There's a whole doctor archetype, but medical skill, except for healing crits, is way worse than just using Stimpacks. 5) Advantages and disadvantages. These are SOOOO common that they lose any 'specialness'. Our group finds ourselves stressing out how to interpret a 2 success - 4 disadvantage roll when you are trying to do something relatively straightforward. We also find that we have trouble being 'narrative' because we are actually tied to the dice rather than just coming up with stuff and roleplaying. We are really struggling with this that we are trying to find better ways to handle it than how its written because are having so little fun dealing with it. 6) While individual combat is pretty fast, space combat seems slow and cumbersome and doesn't give great roles to all the players.
  10. Thanks for the feedback. Is it possible that you can start small and work your way up? This would seem to me a safer introduction than starting immediately with a battleship and countless minions at your command if you have no idea what you are doing?
  11. I have a long running gaming group. We mostly play Pathfinder. We have tried some other games in the past, and I think the group is relatively open minded. We'd like to try a new system, specifically something that is not straight-fantasy. My first love has always been sci-fi. I have heard good things about RT, but know very little about it . I personally have almost no experience with the Warhammer/40K settings. What are the big selling points for myself and my group? What would we enjoy and what would be a challenge to get into?
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