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Cpt. Caine

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  • Birthday 11/25/1988

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  1. I dont think I underatand the hostility on these forums... I said that OTHER people seem to say that the generel trend in Armada is that Sato was thought to be really good (and thus featured prominently in the meta at one point) and failed hard. Generally. And yes, also among highly skill players. I haven't seen properly analysed data on it, but according to the only set of data I've seen, brought forth by Truthiness and Biggs - Sato underperformed heavily and has since then been almost completely unrepresented in the meta. Whether that dataset is the basis of or simply supports what I've been led to believe is the general consensus on Sato - that he's bad. I don't know. Either way, my first entry into this thread was to say that he is NOT as bad as people seem to say in my opinion. So don't strawman me. And merry Christmas. P.s. please don't argue against me saying a SINGLE (or a few) case of a decent performance using Sato is relatively irrelevant when it comes to GENERALLY considering powerlevels. That's just not how math works. If you're arguing - like I am - that Sato has a very specific context in where he might be a potent commander, then sure a few cases of a specific build performing might be relevant to consider as a hypothesis building device - but it isn't PROOF of anything if we're, again, discussing whether that is generalizable.
  2. I understand your point now As to the point itself: First of all, that is one single case of a person performin decent with a commander. There is little to no generalizability from single cases. Neither is a single case disproof of a generalized statement unless it is absolute (e.g. all dinosaurs are dead). Secondly, the number of variables that affect the placings of someone at a tournament are many and the commander is just one.
  3. I love the fluff (even if I'm by all means a bit hostile to the HP IP after the movies and all) of that article Can you elaborate your point though?
  4. I think people are being overly negative here OP. On my end though, I've given up on Sato due to him suffering from the Sloane fever without offering enough of a benefit for the sacrifice needed - and my general dislike for ordnance based fleets - which seems to be the main idea with Sato these days. My impression if the meta judgement on him is that people tried really hard to make him work when came out - and yet he failed so hard almost no one cared to continue using him. Mathematically, the usual best case scenario with him is that you gain 2 black instead of 2 red dice = 0.25 increased average damage and an 50% increase of a chance to get a crit from 0.25 to 0.5 on each of those dice. If you're only getting the 0.5 avg damage extra on each shot from Sato and only IF you manage to get a squadron into the right place prior to taking the shot for a 32 point cost commander you're paying too much given that your squadrons (that you'll have to take some of) gain no benefit from it. Notice that the increase in damage is less than a concentrate fire dial (at least a 0.75 avg damage increaae) totally and per dice less than a concentrate fire token or other reroll effect. I appreciate the idea that if you gain something from the increased crit effect as well - and/or gain something by being able to add dice at another range than you usually would - then the math changes. Also because it is unexpected/unique to be able to start triggering APT/ACM and other black crits at long range. As an aside, Sloane costs less AND helps your ships and squadrons simultaneously. I fully respect your idea of using Sato to get a blue dice for Leading Shots on your MC80 Liberty though, I hadn't actually thought of that before. Even if it does seem obvious at second glance
  5. ... and the fleet points cost for 400 pt games is 134 not 133.
  6. I've changed things around a bit: Name: Cracken's Whip MSU Faction: Rebel Commander: General Cracken Assault: Most Wanted Defense: Contested Outpost Navigation: Solar Corona CR90 Corvette A (44) • Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7) = 51 Points CR90 Corvette A (44) • Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7) = 51 Points CR90 Corvette A (44) • General Cracken (26) • Hondo Ohnaka (2) • Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7) • Jaina's Light (2) = 81 Points GR-75 Medium Transports (18) • Slicer Tools (7) • Quantum Storm (1) = 26 Points Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36) • Cham Syndulla (5) • External Racks (3) • Garel's Honor (4) = 48 Points Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36) • External Racks (3) = 39 Points MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63) • Walex Blissex (5) • Ordnance Experts (4) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) • H9 Turbolasers (8) • Admonition (8) = 93 Points Squadrons: = 0 Points Total Points: 389 I've followed most of the advice. I'm still on the fence about making the Frigate my flagship, since it'd make it start creeping towards 1/3 of my total fleet points - I think that's a bit risky, no matter how survivable Admonition is. Still open to more opinions on this. Walex Blissed (as assed), Major Derlin (+2 points) or Lando (-1 point) for officer on the frigate? I like Walex for making those tokens last longer and as extra insurance against Sloane fleets. How do you guys like me having basically made on the HHs the sacrificial lamb? Cham, ExRacks, Ram - die in blazing glory, hopefully last/firsting too. Should I just drop the other HH then? Maybe drop a TRC90 too and instead add a cheaply upgraded MC30c instead (6 activations/6 deployments then)? After having looked it over... why am I not just running Rieekan and going ahead with the kamikaze Hammerheads/a ramming CR90B instead combined with the long range firepower and the MC30c as a mop up/superthreat? It seems to me the zombie close range rammers/black dicers coupled with consistent ranged firepower would be more potent. As seen above, I've been swayed. Can you elaborate a bit on the objective? As said, that's probably my main problem here and I'm certain that it's the weakest objective of the three so I'll likely be playing it every time I'm second player. Cham, along with Slicer Tools, is pretty much game over for a heavy squadron fleet relying IF it can be delivered and IF they don't have adequate command dial insurance. Therefore, the Cham HH is a priority target in the fleet. It is also intended to go close and deliver Cham (and, secondarily, ExRacks) as early as possible - meaning it is unlikely to survive that mission. All of this, means that a task force title will likely not see many uses and will be wasted on the other HH as soon as the Cham HH dies. 1-2 rerools = an increased avg damage of .25-0.5. Not worth the points if you ask me. A Garel's Honor ram is 0.13 avg damage more than a regular ram (change of getting structural damage factored in), so it actually also diminishes the comparable benefit of the TFO rerolls - and that's without talking about all the other very important crit effects that it could put onto an enemy carrier/main gunship. It's a kamikaze APT effect on top for 4 points on a ship that's meant to die. EDIT: For reference, this would be an initial build for the fleet with a dropped HH+TRC for an extra MC30: Name: Untitled Fleet Faction: Rebel Commander: General Cracken Assault: Most Wanted Defense: Contested Outpost Navigation: Solar Corona CR90 Corvette A (44) • Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7) = 51 Points CR90 Corvette A (44) • Hondo Ohnaka (2) • Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7) • Jaina's Light (2) = 55 Points GR-75 Medium Transports (18) • Slicer Tools (7) • Quantum Storm (1) = 26 Points Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36) • Cham Syndulla (5) • External Racks (3) • Garel's Honor (4) = 48 Points MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63) • General Cracken (26) • Walex Blissex (5) • Ordnance Experts (4) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) • H9 Turbolasers (8) • Admonition (8) = 119 Points MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63) • Lando Carissian (4) • Ordnance Experts (4) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) • H9 Turbolasers (8) • Foresight (8) = 92 Points Squadrons: = 0 Points Total Points: 391
  7. I think conventional wisdom states that task force titles should generally be taken in amounts of 3+ - especially in hammerheads. And especially with the Cham delivery HH being a priority target for squadron heavy fleets, task force titles would quickly become obsolete.
  8. I don't think I have the points to spare and I expect at least one if them to be sacrificed every game. Change my mind though?
  9. What the **** is up with the hostility? Mate, Jonus might be a thing but he is just another 'maybe' and you'd still only be looking at 0.75 more damage in average if you were sure he'd be in range and alive every single time. Don't hate me because you made a claim that wasn't factual and I pointed it out.
  10. Sure. That's a different story then. We're looking at different targets. And only one of the shots can utilize the CF dial and/or the CF dial plus. We could count in rerolling a QTC accuracy, but getting an accuracy off of 7 red dice in the best case scenario (CF dial) or 6 in most cases is actually not a sure thing at all. You're looking at about a 4/5 chance with 7 and then 5/8 chance of that reroll then turning out as a damage roll. So that's worth less t than just plain adding the 0.75 average damage in the red dice. We'd still only end up in a 7.5ish average damage scenario with an accuracy in the initial roll, with Vader reroll, with IF! Triggered, with a CF dial AND with a CF token spent. I'm not saying it's bad. Just not '14 damage average good' - unless you're saying that on average the build can put out that amount of damage (around 13.75) totalled out on two targets by spending two defense tokens, retning on IF! being triggered and a CF Dial and token - and the likely scenario then is 0-1 accuracies and no offensive defense token mitigation to make the damage stick. For comparison, three CR90As with TRCs (less points) and an IF! triggered that are only shooting from the front can accomplish a 9 damage across the three attacks AT MINIMUM. With a small chance of 10 or as much as 12. If they also has dials or tokens they can go as high as 18 and their average would be around the same as the Cymoon build. All on the same target though.
  11. How would that ever have an average damage of 12? In a best scenario, with 7 red dice (assuming CF dial) and using IF! your damage profile is: 1 minimum damage (IF!) - 5.50 average damage and 14 maximum damage. Adding rerolls from Vader and a possible reroll with a CF token would bring you to 6.75ish (I can't do exact math on the fly right now, double rerolls are tricky) average damage whilst not changing minimum or maximum damage. In fact the likelihood of getting 12 damage is without rerolls is so neglible that it is barely worth considering. Getting double hits on 6/7 dice will on average happen less than once per 200 attempts. With the rerolls I can't do the calculation easily but I doubt it raises it enough for anything above 9-10 damage to be worth chasing.
  12. Thanks! Replying collectively since you gave advice in similar veins: A) I'll put Quantum Storm on the Flotilla. I think I got caught up in my finding Bright Hope to be vastly superior in general. I can easily see how, especially against a squad heavy opponent, being able to reach the carrier is Alfa omega. In my first test game I did actually just barely miss hitting range of the enemy main carrier - QS would have meant I had sliced that turn. B) I think I see the point in regards to H9 Turbolasers (I generally find them to be overpriced) being a viable upgrade here. Especially against Brace tokens. With blue dice (i.e. on the torpedo variant) H9s are basically an insurance policy on getting at least 1 accuracy whilst sacrificing 1 damage, which I imagine generally pays off against likely MC30c targets. C) As to the torpedo/scout versions I'm generally fond of red dice just because getting in an extra shot before and/or after the attack run seems to outweigh the .50 more average damage on the blue version (side arc) and the point differential. But with the H9 combo I'm starting to see the idea here. I'll swap it back to the torpedo version and hope I don't ever again have to see an ISD barely escape with its life due to it being in red but not blue range on the last two turns. D) Moving Mon Mothma to the MC30c seems worth it, but that would be putting a lot of eggs in one basket, wouldn't it? I've generally started always dedicating a Jaina's Light CR90A as flagship in my Rebel fleets to semi-life boat. The MC30c would end up being pretty much 'lose it and lose' if it was also a flag ship. But you think the CR90A is more likely to get sniped? E) Why Hondo (I actually had him in my previous build)? mean I can just bank the token. I'll be going straight for the carrier anyway. I'm thinking those 2 points might b better used for the bid? Quite insightful, hmm. I will definitely consider that, since I like racing towards and around my opponent anyway and would thus get the obstructed bonus. If nothing else, the 4 saved points would be a net gain since I'd wager Cracke at least benefits the fleet equally. My one worry would be against squadron heavy fleets. It seemed to me the reroll against squadron attacks was quite helpful, even against a Sloane fleet that was stripping my tokens. What so you think? P.s. I tried your Cymoon/Arquitens fleet build the other day whilst helping a friend practice for his regional, it was pretty awesome!
  13. So, the list I'm currently practising with in anticipation for my first Regional (and tournament). 7 deployments/activations with a bunch of reliable minimum damage due to TRCS, anti-squadron tech in Cham and the Slicer Tools and some burst damage in the HHs and MC30c, with the Garel's Honor Hammerhead being intended for ramming and blocking e.g. an enemy ISD to ensure the MC30c and other flankers will get the kill. These are tweaks/points of doubt: Especially the yellow objective (Capture the VIP and Planetary Ion Cannons are my two other primary candidates, with Hyperspace Assault being a close third), but objectives in general. I've considered Sensor Net for the blue objective as well - strategic doesn't seem rampant in the local meta - but have thought the better off it due to being squadron less and losing deployment to most heavy squadron fleets as well. No Lando (389 points = 11 point bid) OR No Lando, but Bright Hope on the GR-75 (381 points = 9 point bid)? I don't know the bid sizes currently used in the local milieu - but in my own gaming group a bid of 11 should net initiative 8-9/10 times. XI7s on the MC30c, yes or no? Could it be spend better elsewhere? I've played one game with it (against Andylicious' Sloane list posted on here a few days ago) where we had to stop by round 3 due to IRL, and whilst I ****** up in deployment and thus ended up with a dead flagship - I ended up shutting down his main Sloane carrier from round 3 and onwards (first slicer tools before he could activate with the dial, then Cham ready to strike at the end of the 3rd round or early 4th), whilst his Arquitens Centicore ended up with a crit from one Hammerhead that stripped the squadron dial from that one as well. I'll be playing against an Imperial Motti Big Heavy next time to see how I fare there.
  14. I can also reveal that it isn't a pleasure to play against either way 😁
  15. I can equally appreciate that, but C&C isn't a miniature game after all.
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