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ppski

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  1. Jvirtue55, find this card and check whether it is Forced effect or Action. In FAQ there are pretty nicely described sections about 'coming into play', 'playing' etc stages. Entropy any updates from you or Lukas on the main subject ?
  2. You are the man! We are looking forward anxiously to hearing from you.
  3. Entropy42 said: From looking over all the sections people have quoted, I don't think there is enough support for my interpretation. When we were writing up the Flowchart, this is how I envisioned that triggered actions would work, but I'm not completely sure that this is what Lukas had in mind. And obviously however he thinks it works is how it works. tl;dr I am probably wrong, and Thief has to be in play at the time you add its Action to the stack. Thanks for your interpretation. Is there a chance, to be 100% sure, to ask Lukas ?
  4. I can go with this reasoning Many thanks! Just last words - Entropy, what would be your answer ?
  5. Shindulus said: Entropy also says that thief does not "fire", I think that he just makes an amalgam that disapoint you, (and I must say me, when I first read) between trigger condition and the fact that the action is triggered. Quoting Entropy : 1. Yes, you can take the Thief action at the next opportunity. It has already triggered, it is just waiting to be put on the chain. (See B1 of the flowchart: Players take turns putting Triggered Actions that have met their trigger condition since the last Action Window on a chain...) That Triggered Action is already "floating" out there, even though the unit is dead. You can choose to put it on the chain at the first opportunity, or you can pass on it and its gone. [...] 1c. The Thief doesn't trigger when he (or his friends who die simultaneously) leaves play. This is for the same reason that Dwarf Ranger doesn't trigger on himself leaving, or his buddies leaving during a Troll Vomit. That caught me off guard ... however Thief does not leave play with other ones, in our situation it was triggered in the right way. 1c says about not being able to trigger not about resolving something what triggered the right way. So I still think Entropy wrote - that it will fire. We may assume that those actions met their triggers and are waiting to be activated till current stack resolves. After stack resolved, we want to activate that triggered action (choose target and pay cost ) however to do this we have to have source card in play - Thief is not so actions just vanishes. Is that correct ? On the other hand, if Thief's actions triggers during stack creation, it would be simply triggered and 'in response' added/activated on current stack and would resolve eventually ?
  6. Shindulus said: Teokrata said: THX for answers! Could You explain in more words difference between triggered action of Glorious Preceptor and Thief of Essence? Glorious Preceptor - Action: When this unit enters or leaves play, draw a card. Thief of Essence - Action: When one or more units leaves play, draw a card. You can also take account in your exemple of Blue Horrors, Corsairs of Ghrond, Crypt Ghouls, Doombull, Sigmar's Blessed, Spirit Host, Ungor Raiders, Vanguard of Woe, Walking Sacrifice, Zhufbar Engineers. Cards that are able to trigger in a non normal way as they trigger when they are no more in play. The "when this unit leaves play" explicitly specify that this unit is able to trigger his action in a "non normal way", as it trigger when it is no more in play." "When one or more units leaves play,...." does not, implicitly, mean "When one or more units, including this one, leaves play..." In "other wordds", the card check if cards have leaved play but is not able to check if it has leaved play itself, as it is not explicitly written. That makes sense, however whose ruling is this? No offence, just want to know whether it is yours/others suspicion/assumption or ruling from game's creators. So "when this unit" would trigger when card is out of play or in with no distinction, however "when other or one/more units leave" then it can only be triggered when card stays in play and cannot be triggered by itself ? Shindulus said: @ ppski : The answer of your question is in FAQ 1.6 p.4 : Triggered Actions (formerly Response Actions) (v1.4) Triggered Actions are a subset of Actions that contain a trigger condition. Each Triggered Action can be triggered once per copy of the Triggered Action and only once per trigger condition. If this trigger condition is met during the resolution of other effects (or outside of an Action Window) then the Triggered Action must be played during the first available opportunity once an Action Window opens, or it cannot be played at all. The trigger condition is met during the first action window and you play your triggered Action during the next one, which is according to Jaszczurr's answer. In your example the trigger condition is met (but it does not trigger the action itself); during the next window you can use actions with this trigger (and more generaly with any trigger that has occured during this action window), but you can't use your thief action as it is no more in play. To use Entropy's words, only "trigger condition are floating" and they are only floating until the end of the next action window. Ok, so Entropy said that Thief will fire, you are saying just the opposite, who is right then?
  7. Many thanks Entropy. To sum it up, you are saying that: 1. When triggered action meets its condition during stack creation it is added to the same stack which triggered it - that is what FAQ says quite clearly. No problem with sources dying, cost etc, it is on stack and is treated as simple action. 2. When Triggered actions meets its condition during stack resolution, it is triggered and ready to be executed, however it cannot be added to this stack during its resolutions. From now whatever happens to source of this action or other things, does not matter, this actions is still pending. When stack resolves complitely, we take all pending triggered actions and resolve them in turns, while each of them creates new stack to which players can add actions in response ? 3. In terms of that second scenario, gus from other forum have one concerne: "After card effects are triggered (usually by paying a cost or meeting a timing requirement and declaring its use), they exist independently of the source" that triggered action in question cannot be declared when source exists (stack is resolving), it can be done only after stack with Thief dying resolves, so source is not there, it wasn't declared so sorry no valid action from Thief, no independent existence. 4. What you are saying means that Thief when dying triggers its own action ? 5. So why Dwarf Rangers when dying with other Dwarf doesn't trigger its action ?
  8. Bomb will not fizzle, because when activated all target were valid, meanwhile during resolution it will target as many as possible - it is inline with rules. In terms of first question, I would like to hear official statement, if possible of course, that this triggered actions with met trigger after source dies, starts new chain or not - interpretation or official wording. Because I suspect that it should not be valid any more, however few sentences from FAQ are against this ... 2,3,4,5 - sorted out thx.
  9. Hi there, I stuck on few scenarious and would like to hear some clarification: 1. Opponent plays: Plague Bomb on my: Thief of Essence, some unit on Offering to Hekarti and Shades. I activate Action on Hekarti targeting Shades in response. We both pass. Now we resolve: Hekarti gives -1HP so Shades dies, now TRIGGERED action on Thief met its trigger - but because stack is resolving we cannot activate it and add to this stack (is this correct?). Bomb kills 3my units, so Thief is no longer in play(!). What happens next ? Can I activate triggered action from non-existent Thief card now creating another stack or not ? What is the ruling for triggered action, which met its trigger condition during some stack resolutions (so cannot be activated during that stack), and this unit dies before stack ends. Can we activate triggered action without source card being in play - there are two rules which say that card has to be in play prior action activation and that actions exist independently from its source ? How it is connected to triggered actions ? Is there distinction between meeting trigger condition, activating and triggering and paying cost of such actions ? 2. Dwarf Rangers have FOrced effect (so even stronger than above) what happens when they and few other Dwarf card are killed by for example Vomit ? DOes it trigger or not, when all units die simultanously? 3. THe same as above however units die in fight after applying damage - all Dwarf Rangers die - do they trigger ? 4. Thief dies, does it trigger its own action ? 5. What about Ungor Raiders (Glorious preceptor) in comparison to above examples and their action being played out of play ? The most important is official ruling and explanation for the first question - this is connected to few parts of FAQ and wording that can be ambiguous ..
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