Warboss Krag
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Posts posted by Warboss Krag
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I do have a serious question for the French idiot who decided to give the helicopters 6 damage points. It's just another hit in the series of weaponry/machinery missteps from Dust Studios - the nerfing of the German MG, the impotence of the .50 cal against heavy infantry (the biggest one in my view), and now giving helicopters more damage-taking capacity than a medium combat walker.
That last is pure BS. As Americans know from their war experience in both Viet Nam and the Middle East, helicopters are relatively fragile contraptions, and they don't do well under fire. Even the relatively-heavily armored Soviet Hind designs are quite vulnerable to ground fire…ask the Mujuhadin about Afghanistan. This massive damage point allocation strikes me as a facile and artificial attempt to make the Dust helis more survivable, therefore making them worth taking in games. And I despise and loathe that sort of game design; it's low, and smacks of too much marketing department and too little serious game design with an eye towards balance.
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Hooey. And if the other side has a flakfierling or a quad .50 walker, what then? Or worse, two of them. That equation equals dead choppers, and chopped up infantry, while there's little to fight those walkers…and their larger brother who's also doubtless there (or, God help you, if they're Americans and brought their big dog multiped - honestly, all it needs is a butt turret and it's a brother to the multiped from GITS 2nd Gig episode 1 - with its mass of AA MGs).
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I'm looking for opinions. I'm getting close to the capping point on my SSU force, and the burning question is: Why get a helicopter? The transports cost as much as a KV suit (any kind), they take up the same support slot as a KV suit, and they're a lot less sturdy - a lot more things can kill them. In addition, at the 300 point level, the board is scarcely large enough to take advantage of their mobility, without risking having them shot up in a trice - 16" may not sound like much range, until you realize that it's about 1/4 of the board in a 300 point game, and it's pretty easy for your opponent to move someone nasty within that 16" range and start shooting you - particularly the American walkers, with their over-abundant machineguns.
So, opinions: What are the advantages of taking a chopper?
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And it looks like the airborne suit and transport are coming out next month. Excellent. I still do think it strange that the only SSU artillery is on a chibi airborne suit, but it's so effective, I can't complain!
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I do believe the SSU Heroes pack is coming out this week.
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Actually, I would use the Fuzion system. It covers vehicles better (particularly mecha); I've been negatively impressed with the Savage Worlds system (having run the pulp sci-fi campaign). I just want the incredible amount of background material that would have to be generated, as well as perhaps a system that would allow player characters to take to the Dust Warfare field (Mutant Chronicles achieved this in their Warzone game).
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I would personally like to see a Dust RPG. Let's face it: The background is practically made for role-play, and FFG does some decent ones (their system writing and editing may leave something to be desired, but they do a hell of a job with background fluff; their 40K fluff is so superior to that coming out of Games Workshop that I don't think there's a way to numerically compare the difference!)
Of course, I don't know what sort of difficulties would come of the licensing arrangement - Parente to Dust Studios to AEG? or to FFG? And are there other entities involved (Outer Gods, perhaps…literary legalities over international borders do seem to involve Yog Sothoth more often than not…).
Thoughts?
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My point being that as they stand laser grenadiers don't work well unless they can deliver sustained fire attacks at close range (which is all the range they have). That means they need a hero with them to allow them to survive long enough to deliver, as well as getting rid of the inevitable suppression they should pick up along the way.
A large game is more favorable for their deployment; in smaller games, there aren't enough other units threatening the enemy to allow the laser grenadiers to get close enough to do their work. I note that the game in question where they did so well, was a large game where the lasers had that necessary bulk of other targets to soak for them. Since I usually play 200-250 point games, I usually end up with the choice between getting the laser grenadiers or a Heinrich walker…hands down, the Heinrich with its flakvierling.
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Meaning you got lucky. Normal dice rolls make laser grenadiers (you will note I advocate no changes to the heavies) not worth the 21 points. Every other squad that has such a short range shoots more often (shotguns, or Sov assault rifles) and usually has grenades or some such to damage vehicles (and often nerf cover). My first Warfare battle I got lucky with the lasers, too, but I knew that it was luck, and they've rarely been worth the 21 points since. (Please note that my opponents aren't stupid enough to allow me to get Sustained Attacks with said unit, either - they know what happens if I do.)
The least FFG could do is knock the laser grenadiers' point value down to, say, 14.
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Good. My SSU forces really need some heroes to help with the inevitable suppression, since they have to get in close.
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Does anyone have any leads on when the Heroes of the SSU are supposed to be available?
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Yes, the chances of getting hits on re-rolls is so slim that lasers are practically useless without the re-rolls that you get from a Sustained Attack action. That's why, in Warfare, I advocated dropping the 'laser' ability from the regular lasers (not the heavy ones; they remain as stated) and doubling their attack dice vs. infantry.
Um, as for 'pin point accuracy,' might I remind you that a bullet needs that too? Which is why grenade and splash weapons ignore cover: They aren't 'pin point' accurate, and don't need to be. (Although I would have had and splash only nerf one hit of cover: Hard cover is and remains notoriously difficult to winkle people out of with artillery).
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So far, I haven't found a truly over-powered bit in the game. Sure, some units have a great deal of advantages, such as Angela and the snipers combo, and who can overlook the effectiveness of the humble Mickey, which is pure cheap death to infantry and not half bad against light armor (and helicopters)? I'm mostly interested in the niggling little problems, such as the lack of grenades among German infantry - for the same points value, Americans get grenades and the Germans don't? That, I feel, is an editorial oversight. But overall I haven't found a unit which is truly cheesy broken (although the rocket-punch comes real close). Which is something of a tribute to the base game: It tends to focus more on combined arms tactics instead of broken heroes (cf games such as War Machine and Malifaux). So, by and large, I'm not complaining.
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No, Angela's rifle is a modified ATR that actually did exist - a Swedish gun, if I'm not mistaken. I believe they've got it firing VK rounds/ammo or some such non-sense.
And given the FACT that the Russian ATR was used, in squads, against Tigers (!), with great effect (my primary source being 'Tigers in the Mud' by Otto Carius), I think the game shorts the Russian ATR gunners somewhat (they fired at vision slits and blocks…which Dust walkers have).
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Giggidy. Giggidy giggidy giggidy goo!
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Reversing the attack dice doesn't give you as many potential hits as it used to in Tactics.
BTW, we are all resolved that they do need fixing, right?
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Woo hoo! Captain Koshka, bless her curvy little body, is now the all-in-one Hero of the State!
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It already is a cheat, so much so that forget having the heroes available separately, give me the Hans as a separate boxed set!!! (Yes, I use all three factions. The Hans is the best walker for the price, hands down.)
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My 'fix' was based on the idea that lasers were, in Tactics, supposed to be able to put out a lot of fire (and damage armor where normal small arms couldn't). Thus doubling the attack dice vs. infantry. The 'laser' ability is too chancy, depending on the ability to get hits in the first place. As for their ranges, even in Tactics, lasers are shorter ranged than projectile guns…and FYI, lasers only have near infinite range in a vaccum; in atmosphere they attenuate like crazy, having to bull the air out of the way, losing energy with each millimeter.
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It seems to be agreed that the laser grenadiers need fixing. Yes, they are the **** in Dust Tactics; not so much in Warfare. And, they are dead ringers for the Red Skull's troops ("Hail Hydra!"), which makes them cool.
Here's my suggestion: Instead of giving the regular laser-werfer the 'laser' designation, simply double the amount of attack dice vs. troops. This makes them the dead shooty gits that they are in Tactics; you can rationalize it as lasers doing more damage more easily to mere flesh. The schwerer laser-werfer gets no changes; it's still real deadly against armor. The regular lasers retain their normal attack vs. armor, and also lose the 'laser' ability.
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If a hero is leading a platoon, does that hero, if operating alone, count as a unit towards the 2-for-1 limit for normal units when acquiring support units?
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It should be apparent to all that Dust is more about style than substance - it is, after all, the product of a gentleman who was apparently trying to do a WWII anime. With that in mind, I offer the following explanation of the 'grenatewerfer' title to those who seem to be wanting the Hans to be an even bigger piece of cheat for 25 points than it is (and it's pretty nasty already: An artillery weapon that doesn't use reloads, and one of the most vicious anti-tank attacks in the game): Look at the rockets the Hans uses. Half of them look like large stick grenades. Soldiers, with their fondness for nicknames, would simply call it at 'grenatewerfer,' especially since the Germans don't have the man-carried launchers - it's an 'ours is bigger' joke.
Now, can we get people to stop whining for the grenade rule to it? That is unseemly, considering the Hans' considerable advantages.
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And on a separate front, their two big GenCon releases for the 40K RPG line failed to show up. Especially 'Only War,' their really big release.
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That would be welcome. Does this mean that they're finally going to start learning how to market this game? (GenCon was a masterpiece of botch.)
Why get a helicopter?
in Dust Warfare General Discussion
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Good point about the vehicle consideration when flying low. And as for the rules about all units DC, Armor, and so forth, I haven't seen any that don't slavishly follow the ratings from Dust Tactics, and those rules and ratings come out of Dust Studios in France.