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  1. You appear to have the Same interpretation as me, MorbidDon. That does apply. The FAQ/Errata does clarify a lot of what we discussed.
  2. The book is great. Cultists, zealots, psykers... Apart from the humour-mill that comes from considering a long-las armed monotask servo gunskull. ZZZZZAP page 88, the (master) antagonist - So... Pen 0... With Razor sharp? so if he scores a hit with 3 degrees of success... it's still pen zero I mean he is threat 20, and rightly so, his 'skill' thing that frenzies players is horrible. Perhaps, as a house rule, if he comes out of the box (reminds me of Omega Red for some reason, 'implanted' boneweed whip) that bonewhip should be pen 2. So pen 4 on 3+ degrees successful hit. Thoughts?
  3. Greetings fellow GMs! Sorry to bump up the topic. The Errata/FAQ, now at version 1.1 at the time of this reading, has taken all our concerns into account for this somewhat slightly-underpowered (depending on your PoV) role bonus and hopefully clarified them. Sigh. I kinda hoped for a significant change of what the role bonus was - never mind though! It's up to the player to make the most of it. And make the most of it they probably will.
  4. OK, so we've gone quite off-topic. TempestSatori, you like to stick with move-and-shoot, that's great, you like how it works for you - excellent. The two alternate role bonuses worked on previously in this forum discussion, you like neither - that's cool, you don't have to. You've made an excellent case for the role bonus as-is, sounds good and i'm sure as a player, or for your players, it makes the game entertaining, which is the most important rule. Asymptomatic, you find cons with all of the role bonus and some world starter-bonuses, that's fine - not every ruleset can please/appease every fan. There are things I don't like about the D100 WHFRP system, but I won't discuss them here. I'm sure you find plenty of Pros with the system though, as you're passionate about the discussion - but we won't discuss those things here either. Looks like we've all asked rule questions about that particular role bonus, and it looks like the writers have listened and are thinking. promoting thought is good, and I look forward to the Errata. I feel that, from this thread, I have gained an appreciation for both sides of the coin or all six faces of this 3-dimensional cube-shaped matter, and you've all helped with that. I know what I will be sticking with or using, I know how it would work for me, so thank you.
  5. Tempest, Thank you for your input. You focus on the 'soul' of using the Gunslinger Desperado, and your interpretation reads well. Character is more important to me than destructive capability. If someone's GM wants to allow twin autoguns, recoil gloves, and any variation of hip-moving/shooting they like, then that's cool, subtlety suffers (or at least it should) and I hope their character likes explaining themselves to the Arbites and Enforcers. You've discussed the finer points of playing the character, and it's pros over cons... and I thank you for your input! most informative. However, the focus of this exercise what to interpret the rule, to discuss it and dissect it, and decide upon a replacement, of which two were offered. what did you think of those two choices?
  6. Safeties Off now is the Quick and the Dead. The stipulation could be for the same as for quickdraw, it can only be used if the Desperado has a basic weapon or a pistol? or it can't be done at all if the desperado is carrying a heavy weapon? Saint-of-Killers goes in the bin, unless anyone has anything to say about it?
  7. It was an excellent suggestion and looks really good as a rule! 'Dodge' by killing the shooter in one shot. The wording in my last post looks good, with most thanks to Asymptomatic, but what are your thoughts, Godgolden? You mentioned shenanigans. what do you reckon to the phrasing, where is the trouble? The wording looks okay and pretty straightforward to me, but I'm not an optimiser, just a story-driven GM. So, the other two I mentioned for kicks, Safeties Off and Saint-of-Killers, anyone got anything to add about them? Safeties Off: For a fate point a Desperado can always go first (instead of a 10 on his initiative roll) and get a half-move OR half-aim action as a free action. (If surprised, the surprise round still happens first.) Saint-of-Killers: After spending one full round psyching himself up with flashbacks, self-loathing or some such, the Desperado can enter a state that turns him into a death-hurling whirlwind. He gains +10 BS, T, WP and Ag, and -20 to all tests of Int, Fel, and WS, and must attack the easiest possible shot first until the target is down, before working outwards in this way up to the hardest shot. This trait otherwise works like frenzy for immunities, avoided actions and snapping out of it.
  8. Less word salad is better, but I wasn't after a finalised version yet, more of the discussion involved. BUT! it seems to be liked. Faster-Than-Thou: When an enemy declares a ranged attack against a Desperado, the Desperado may spend a Fate Point and a Reaction to fire a single shot from a single Pistol weapon. The Desperado's attack resolves first, and may only be attempted with a Pistol in hand, or one that can normally be readied as a free action on his turn. The Desperado must be able to clearly see his shooter to make this attack. Not the strongest bonus, no, but definitely interesting. (changed the wording as free actions can only be performed in a character turn, so had to maintain that status quo lest an optimiser exploit it.) LordBlades - FACING! Ah I see now, sorry. Yeah there's no facing in this game (like most RPGs) only awareness of opponents. Yep. understood. So now there are basically several alternatives to pick from. Faster-Than-Thou, Safeties off and Saint-of-killers (which needs significant adjustment) are my personal favourites. Anyone got any ideas for adjusting Saint-of-Killers? Perhaps... works the same as Frenzy, except a fate point rather than "one round of building up the frenzy" but adjusts different skills? Ballistic Skill? Agility? Perception? Reduces... Fellowship? willpower? Weapon skill? Can't be pinned? There's now several choices for swapping out move-and-shoot. Success!
  9. Standard attack is not. Standard attack can be turned into two-weapon wielding at a whim. page 224 on the left. In dark Heresy 1.0, yes, not in Dark Heresy 2.0. Character tacing? What's this? What does the game have none of? Is it tactics? Pacing? Reaction means you can't use it in your turn, correct. But you can use it in the same round, like you say, for overwatch, or being shot at, or when someone throws a knife, or uses suppressing fire. (the desperado is 'potentially' targeted as he's in the firing arc for Supressing fire.) The character will need some good awareness to be aware of an over-watching attacker, who would be foolish to remain in the front arc of a gun-magi such as a desperado with his automatic weapon. The fact that the desperado is using a fate point to do this, and has a gun in his hand (usually) to react, I'm starting to like this. Asymptomatic? Godgolden?
  10. Fellow Acolytes, we are now cooking with Vespene gas. However, Lord Blades, free actions can only occur during said character turn (under my interpretation, page 218, "on his turn" which really should be genderless) so they're not a free-at-any-point action, they can just fit around the one full action by being next-to-no-time. Feel free to prove me wrong, I will attempt to interpret. A reaction is a good place to put them. I think Desperado players will enjoy pulling this tactic on Mooks, as the mook will attempt to shoot them, and they'll put the mook down before he can fire (and demonstrate that they're the fastest gun in the west/east/'verse.) And if Desperados want to go full-whack on armour, they can go for it. They could also skill up to get more than one reaction a turn? ALSO Standard attack? A Full-auto reaction? Nope. That'll need to be limited to single shot with one pistol, surely? Godgolden, you've hit the proverbial nail with the spaghetti-western hammer straight on the proverbial head. BAM. What say you, readers? Faster-Than-Thou: When an enemy targets the desperado with a shooting attack, by spending a fate point and their reaction a Desperado can interrupt the shooting attack with a standard shooting attack of their own. This attack can only be a single shot from a single pistol already in their hands. Once the interrupting shot is resolved, if able to, the enemy shooter can continue with their action. The desperado must be aware of their attacker, and the shooter must be in their front 90degree arc. Having Quick-draw allows the pistol to be drawn-and-fired into an empty hand as part of this reaction.
  11. Lord Blades, thank you for your input! Faster-Than-Thou: On a successful (-10) Agility check, or by spending a fate point(?) A Desperado can, as a reaction, fire a pistol already in their hands (on single shot only) at their attacker just before the antagonist can fire - as long as the desperado is aware of their attacker and the shooter is in their front 90degree arc. Having Quick-draw allows the pistol to be drawn-and-fired as part of this reaction. Something like this? An alternate reaction? OR Since lightning reflexes doesn't exist anymore, how about The Saint of Killers: A desperado can spend a fate point at the beginning of an encounter or on their turn to gain Unnatural Ballistic Skill (+2) and Unnatural Agility (+2) until the beginning of the next turn. This extra agility cannot effect the initiative order. Or for 1+D3 rounds, if 1 round isn't enough?
  12. Godgolden, That's genius, and I love it. Let's not butcher the 'than' word to 'N' though. Faster-than-you: When performing a reaction (dodge), a desperado can spend a fatepoint to draw and fire a pistol on single-shot with a (+0) bonus at the attacker (as long as the desperado knows where the attack is coming from) or a half-action move (this move cannot be used if the desperado is in melee, or for the desperado to engage in melee.) That's getting somewhere, at least! Discuss!
  13. AH you've seen around the specifics of the rules, that was quite blind of me, run, then free run action and shoot. of course. the flash with a hand cannon. not safe for the meticulous GM. Yes of course, I should have altered the wording to 'spend a fate point after' so that they could do a half/full move-subtype action then get a free shooting action, and not end up with two run actions. Sigh. Bl00dy players. Well the idea with The Quick and the Dead was to fix that, limit it to defined move actions. In that case, the extra attack action could be free, and not cost any fate points - a 'Free shot' worth no fate points, after a move action? Regarding the warrior's bonus - It's hard to scale the bonuses against each other, and it always will be - that's the nature of players and how they use their skills. I have no idea how to scale the effectiveness of what we're suggesting. We can give up, and wait for the FAQ, which might miss it (but probably won't) or we can keep rolling in elaborate circles around use of fate points, extra attack-subtype actions, and trying to not make a gunslinger into a gunzerker. I'm happy for the discussion, it just doesn't seem to be heading in a solid direction. The last paragraph - you were talking about the 'core' of what it was to be a desperado. Angel Eyes, Clint Eastwood's fast-shooting character from "a Fistful of Dollars" "A Few Dollars More" and "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" is a outline of this trope, to me. How about for you? I'm trying to remember what his character would do, in the film, to tip the hands of fate, and what came out of it. Howe do we put that into Dark heresy? Desperados are fast talking, fast acting, fast moving gunslingers with a blaze-away streak. How to get that across, with or without a fate point? A 'trait' that is only a little more utilitarian than hip-Shooting doesn't seem enough, esp. since it can't be used to get more than the single-attack-subtype per turn. Move and Shoot: Once per round, after performing a Move action, a Desperado character may perform a single Standard Attack with a Pistol weapon he is currently wielding as a Free Action. How do you make that better, and not an elaborate copy of Hip shooting? You see, we're back to this question. For a fate point, all pistols game storm for one round? A desperado can move, aim and fire as a half action? or: Safeties off: A Desperado can (for a fate point) always go first, rather than get a 10 on his initiative roll, and get a half move OR aim action for free. If surprised, the surprise round still happens first. Blazing Advance: On a successful agility, acrobatics or athletics test with any move action, The Desperado can have an additional single-shot standard shooting action with a pistol, even out of the desperado's turn. Do I just keep throwing these out until something sticks? We seem to be the only two dumping any input on this. What does anyone else think?
  14. Well a half-move has the move-action-subtype so can be done easily as part of The Quick and the Dead. As can disengaging, and tactical advance. as can any move-action subtype (except charging and running) with a free single-pistol-shot for a fatepoint. So Trailblazer is preserved, in a way? This 'single pistol shot' is tipping the hands of fate, by using a fatepoint? I'm not sure about every fatepoint use, but it's an interesting idea.... a re-roll and a free shot in addition? seems...weird, maybe too much... it's focussing entirely on 'that extra shot' with fatepoints. Humm. But worth discussing! What did angel eyes in the spaghetti westerns tip the hands of fate with when it came to that extra shot, or use of his pistol? for a fate point, you can shoot first, say something smarmy, and get a free half-action move afterwards?
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