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Pappystein

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  1. Actually there is one Fightercraft in the X-Wing universe that specifically calls out the Retro-Thrusters or Reverse Thrust. The Clutch (Tie/CL?) Tie/LN Ball cockpit with 3 Triangular wings set at 120 from each other (top with Ion cannon) and standard 2 Laser cannons. Oh and Reverse used to dramatically shorten a turn. Probably should have a Pilot Skill of; "During movement phase, instead of moving based on what your Maneuver dial states you may instead Barrel Roll. You may not perform a Barrel Roll or Boost after doing so."
  2. Chris, First off I don't know about cool User-name.... But.. I too have built a Z-95. My system is incomplete and Manuverability is the point that needs completion. I would cost out a Z95 as 2 points for the 2 pilot skill, 2 Points for the 2 Hull value 4 points for the 2 Attack Value 6 Points for the 2 Agility Value 4 Points for the 2 Sheild value Or a total of 18 points before any Manueverability or Engine calculation. I forgot to menton that given the X-wing engine has a -1 cost modifier I would guess that the Z-95 would either be a -2 or -3 Cost modifier. I am not 100% certain on that thus making it 16 or 15 points with no Skills or Elite pilot talents.
  3. Chris, First off I don't know about cool User-name.... But.. I too have built a Z-95. My system is incomplete and Manuverability is the point that needs completion. I would cost out a Z95 as 2 points for the 2 pilot skill, 2 Points for the 2 Hull value 4 points for the 2 Attack Value 6 Points for the 2 Agility Value 4 Points for the 2 Sheild value Or a total of 18 points before any Manueverability or Engine calculation. I have experimented with several ways to calculate engines but none have matched how I am calculating the main points value currently. Hence asking for help The way I am figuring it several Manuverability dials are going to be negative (Y-Wing anyone.) There is still much room for improvement. it would be nice if FF would release a "Home rules" Expansion which in core Home Rules would include 8.5x11" or A4 sheets set up just like the Rebel and Imperial ships. Generic Dials (or allow 3rd party Generic dials) and have a Manuver chart that you would color Arrows in either Black (meaning blank,) green or Red pen/marker vice White default.
  4. X-Wing Miniatures, Deconstruction to allow RE-construction. So I have seen several posts through the Forums discussing a formula that is used to build the X-Wing miniatures. I want to thank all those who's work helped guide me on my path. I am not done with my work currently (help would be appreciated in fact,) but I thought I would share my discoveries. My Goal here is to create a set of home rules to allow me to make my ships that I created in the old D20 Star Wars RPG. Primarily my upgrade Y-Wing. First by way of introduction to the process, I did not use a ton of advanced math to come up with this. Rather I looked at what was already posted hear and on the net in general, guessed (hypothesized) to start, built a formula, tested the formula with all known ship data, then revised based on my observations. A very scientific way of grinding the problems even if I did not use more than the basic IF/Then/Else formula in Excel. I am a pattern watcher, not a math genius. It just so happens pattern watching can point out Math formulaic changes quicker sometimes than other pure mathematical ways of calculation. Here in my mind are the rules of ship building, with one variable unsolved for. While attack value is < 3, Agility is 3+ and Shields = 0; Special pilot ability is free If it is not free the Special Pilot ability costs 1 point, no matter what it is. No ship may have a points cost lower than 12 Elite pilot talents cost 2 points if ship base agility is 1, 1 point if ship base agility is 2 and 0 points if Ship base agility is either 3+ or ship is large If there is no Special Pilot ability and the Special Pilot ability would be free the Elite Pilot talent slot becomes free. Hull value can be the most expensive portion of the ship. It appears to calculate like Income Tax does in the US. Hullpoints 1-2 cost 1 point each Hullpoints 2-4 cost 2 Points each Hullpoints 5-6 cost 3 Points each Hullpoints 7-8 cost 3.5 Points each Thus a Y-Wing costs 9 points for it’s hull (5 hull points =1+1+2+2+3=9 squad points) The base formula I am using is: Pilot Skill + Attack*2 + Agility*3 + Calculated hull cost + Shield*2 + Calculated Special Ability cost + Calculated Elite Pilot cost = Ship point cost. Now the issue is I have run into two problems. One could be a simple math issue with the costing of Hull at 7-8 points, the other is that in almost every case EVERY one of the same ship type had a single variable that I am calling “Engine” that was a positive or negative modifier on the cost for the ship. Below is a chart, including Preliminary unconfirmed data for the 3rd Wave of Minis. Please note the two values for the unconfirmed HWK-290 and Lambda from Wave 3 and the YT-1300. The YT-1300 break down is based upon Hull strength (making me want to re-think cost of Hullpoints 7-8.) My gut feeling tells me something about the individual ships maneuver cards + Hull = variance in cost from my formula above. Given the Unconfirmed nature of the HWK and Lambda I am unwilling to explore them further at this juncture. In both cases the highest cost version of the ship (HWK-290 and Lambda) that we have seen information on is 1 or 2 points cheaper than it should be per my formula. But all other ships fall in with a single value. Engine Mod Ywing -6 Tie Engine -7 Xwing -1 YT1300 any -1/-3 A Wing -3 Bwing -3 HWK -1/1 Tie/Adv -2 Tie/INT -2 Firespray -2 Tie/B -8 Lambda -8/-9 So, I have started a process here. At this point my I have this itch in my mind that the engine variable is calculated using Agility + Maneuver Card + Hull Value + Size factor. But anything is possible. I have my up Super fantastic Y-Wing to build (Ion cannons as primary weapon, Laser cannons in the turret, Engines of an A-Wing giving X-wing level performance and swap Concussion missiles for Torps.) Pappystein
  5. Darklordofbunnies said: Actually both plasma and melta guns are quite reasonably sized. Physically the plasma gun is shorter but taller(thicker?) than you standard lasgun, but not by much. Meltaguns are the pinnacle of Dark Age tech and as such are smaller and thinner than your basic lasgun and a roughly on par with a combat shotgun in size. There is no reason to expect them to weight ~40lbs. I keep looking at the weights and getting the feeling that whoever did this at FFG is American and doesn't understand the metric system. I agree 100% on this…. and as an American I know how easy it is to get lost in conversion factors. I do a LOT of work for a real world Naval Strategy game that is actually used by several countries, I have to convert often from English (US and Imperial systems) and Metric (original and modernized Units form)and sometimes across all four. ---------- In the end the game we are here to test, Only War, is about Story, Physics, and Reality. Story, does the game fit thematically with the Warhammer 40,000 universe? Is what's described Physically possible Is the game based in reality, IE you don't have a 500lb man running arround who can not carry 1 pound of weight or have a 50 pound man easily carring said 500lb man! ---------- In regards to weight of items, currently several are NOT physically possible unless they are made out of Lead, or worse Uranium. Their physical size could not be made out of "normal" production materials and weigh as much as the books (and this goes back to Dark Heresy in some respects) want us to think they do. Further, RE Plasma Rifle and Meltagun weights in particular, the Mass Movement Arm (the apparent weight of the weapon at the distance it is held off of center) is crazy bad. There is NO WAY an average HUMAN, let alone one in peek physical shape could carry such a weapon at the prescribed weight in such a manner as to be able to fire it. Like I said in an earlier post. Run around for a few minutes holding a 6 pound dumbell in one hand with that arm fully outstretched. I bet very few of you could do it for more than 3 minutes. Now Realize, that is about 1/5th the effective weight of the Plasma Rifle and Meltagun. I don't have a problem with a plasma rifle being heavier than a Lasrifle or Autogun. I have a problem with a Plasma rifle being 3.5x heavier than a Lasrifle or Autogun! a more reasonable weight would be 5kg for a plasma rifle and 5.5kg for a meltagun Pappystein
  6. HTMC said: So yes, while the rules currently talk about a unified lasgun setting, there's plenty of precedent for variable settings: if nothing else, the core rules have multiple lasgun types (standard lasgun, las carbine, triplex pattern). Actually only the non Cannon books talk about things like that. When you get into the Cannon books (those would be the Codexs and the rules for the miniature game,) there is no mention of variable settings. None of the Novels, art books and the like are considered cannon. Only the Actual rule books are considered such. Else we would have 5 gods of Chaos today and Cypher would reign supreme. HOWEVER that does not mean two different forge worlds wouldn't produce two different pattern lasguns. It is just none of those lasguns can have variable settings. Just my take on this subject.
  7. MILLANDSON said: Pappystein said: Plasma gun at 18kg. That is 36 pounds. for a rifle! Meltagun at 15kg or 34 pounds… Again a rifle. Plasma Gun - it contains technology that creates magnetic fields around super-heated plasma, and you expect it not to weigh a lot? Similar with the Meltagun - it's a weaponised directed microwave generator, so again, that sort of tech would weigh a lot. I don't disagree that they should weigh more than a Lasgun for sure. However they are way too heavy currently. They are too un-weildly for any but the strongest to properly weild in battle. If you have any dumbells in your home try holding one (preferably heavier than 6 pounds) in your off hand a foot and a half in front of your other shoulder. Now try to move around. Watch your toes and good luck holding that up for any length of time. And for the record a Melta gun fires sub-molecular Pyrum-Petro gas, not microwaves. IE it is a focused gas-plasma reaction more akin to a flamer than a "ray gun." Source Warhammer 40K Wargear pg 9.
  8. I do still feel the need for a Vehicle Character sheet. Just like Rogue Trader has a starship sheet, so should the rest of the games have a Vehicle sheet. In addition to the basic things like what weapons and other wargear this vehicle we are using has, it will allow player characters to keep track of damage, as well as a history of their vehicle. Pappystein
  9. Ok so here is my portion on Impy Guard armor. 1st I suggest the creation of a Talent. "Trained by The Imperial Guard" This would be granted by the WORLD during regiment creation. This talent has two aspects. 1) it increases the CARRY weight by 1 rank on chart 1-7. Ie if your Sum of SB and TB is 6, for the purpose of Carry weight it would =7 instead. 2) It grants the "lighter" weight of the armor I am proposing below. Characters who do not have the "Trained byt he Imperial Guard" talent, use the heavier weight and have a lower carry weight capability. Flak Helmet Weight should be 2.0/1.5 Flak Gauntlets should weight 1.0/1.0 Light Flak Cloak should weight 4.0/3.5 Flak Vest should weight 5/3.5 Flak Cloak should weight 8.0/6.5 Flak Coat should weigh 5.0/4.0 Complete set of Flak Armor should weigh 11kg or 9kg with the Trained by the Imperial Guard talent. Carapace Armor should have the following weights Helm should be 2.0/2.0 Gauntlets should be 2.0/1.5 Greaves should be 3.0/2.5kg Light Carapace suit should be 15.0/11.0 kg Chestplate should be 7.0/6.0 kg and Storm Trooper Carapace should be 15.0kg/11.5kg. Please note that Primitive armor can not be lightened in the way of "Modern" Armor. This is due to the intrinsic designs of the straps and harnesses included with the armor in question. As stated above, This is just my OPINION. I am planning on re-calculating my players loads with this to see what kind of changes will happen before our next session. Not that it matters much since they are all riding in a Salamander.
  10. Ok so now that we have the Missile launcher in our sights (sorry for the pun,) I figured I would mention other weapons that feel/seem off. The below are my opinions, but I am basing them on the text in Deathwatch, Only War, Dark Heresy and Black Crusade. Plasma gun at 18kg. That is 36 pounds. for a rifle! Meltagun at 15kg or 34 pounds… Again a rifle. Sniper Rifle, Too light at 5kg Should be more like 8 to 10 kg Autogun too heavy at 5kg should be 4 to 4.5kg Minimal change I think the Stub and Auto Pistols should go down in weight but that is nit-picking again. Man Portable Lascannon has issue similar to Missile launcher (Deathwatch the weight of the backpack is included, that weight is not removed from the Impy Guard version.) Delete weights from Vehicle only weapons. List them as "Vehicle" instead of a weight. Hand Flamer. Even with a chunk of metal to protect the hand the hand flamer is too small to mass in at 8 pounds. Suggest 2.5kg Grenade launcher is too heavy as well. a standard single shot grenade launcher should be in the 4.5-6 kg range. This would bring it in-line with the Auxiliary Grenade Launcher. Mortar is, like a Missile launcher a tube. It also has a base however (unlike the missile launcher) Suggest 20kg with a note that can be broken into 2 10 kg loads to ease encumberance. It takes 6 Full rounds to set up a Mortar in structured time. Espically given the much more massive Mole Mortar is only 10kgs heavier currently. Missile (Frag, Krak, Minefield and Scatter) all are WAY too light. In Deathwatch they are in the 2-3 kg range and I think even that is too light. Suggest 4-8 kg for the various missiles. Mortar rounds should be between 1.5-2.5kg. Also while their damage should be similar to the similar Grenade their blast radius should be greater (most are.) Either Needle Rifle needs an increase in weight or all the basic Las rifles need a decrease in weight suggest bumping Needle Rifle up to 3.5kg. Chainsword is good but I think the Eviscerator should have it's weight reduced to 10kg. Power maul should increase in weight to 5kg or more. at 3.5kg the weapon can not have any sort of defensive capabilties. IE if you block with it, the maul would be destroyed. I will cover the armor in another post
  11. Ok since everyone is on a "It isn't logical because it isn't the real world" spin let me throw some numbers right out of another 40K Fantasy Flight RPG. Deathwatch; So I am going to quote some flavor/rules text from the Deathwatch RPG to prove my point here. Now to quote from Deathwatch (P152) "A missile is fitted with stabilization and guidance systems to aid in its accuracy, which is excellent at long ranges. … The standard Astartes missile launcher is a tube-like weapon that fires a single round at great accuracy. The Soundstrike pattern overcomes the single capacity of the launch tube by attaching a special missile rack and auto-loader to a backpack power unit. The auto-loader’s gripping claw rapidly refills the launcher from the back-mounted ammo source…" From the above we know the launcher includes the weight of the backpack. We also know the guidance system is on the missile itself (and not the launcher.) From Deathwatch (P159) "A weapon connected to a backpack supply uses that supply for its ammunition and ignores its normal clip size. Backpack Ammo/Power supplies weigh 40 kg and are automatically issued with any heavy weapon." Thus the included backpack with the Missile launcher is 40 kg and the Missile launcher itself, with no re-loads or ability to self reload is a whopping (50-40 =) 10 kg (22.05 lbs for those of us in North America.) Oh and the Missile masses in Deathwatch are also higher. Thus a 10kg missile launcher with 3 to 5 2-3 kg missiles would be plausible but not easy to carry on the average Guardsman. Currently we are 35 kg for the Launcher and 0.5 kg per missile. Sorry folks, But sometimes we NEED logic even in a world that is GRIMDARK
  12. ItsUncertainWho said: Pappystein said: … Worn items (armor) should not count full weight as if it was carried (Armor is designed to support itself after all!) I am leaving for my play group shortly but I will post more on this later today Actually anything worn on the upper body is going to carry the weight through the shoulders, anything on the legs will carry the weight through the hips and/or shoulders with suspenders. Only power armor will carry it's own weight. While I agree 100% with what you are stating, the fact of the matter is, CARRY weight is that of OFF Center weight, IE not evenly carried on shoulder or Hip. IE what you CARRY in your arms, (or in some sort of bag/pack.) I am not referencing anything but the Armor at this point when I say, the carry weight and the static (IE on a scale) weight should not be considered the same provided the Carry weight is with the armor being properly worn.
  13. Ravenstormchaser said: So yeah something needs to be changed with either the weights or the lifting weight table… Actually I would say all three ?. 1) The Masses of some items we are expected to carry in combat are crazy. Missile launcher for 35kg (that is over 80lbs people,) Gravchute for 15kg (35lbs anyone.) HOWEVER I think many other items are too light. Eg Ammunition. 2)The Carry/Lift/Push chart is quite off in how the human body works. I would say only the LIFT/Push portions are close to accurate based upon a STR/Tough bonus system currently used. You can safely carry without being encumbered more than it is showing on the chart vs your LIFT mass (this assumes a person in reasonable good health like say, an Imperial Guard soldier.) However there is a simple solution to this. A Level 1 Talent can be added to the game called “Imperial Guard Trained” This grants you a +2 to your STR/Toughness bonus sum for the purpose of Carry load only. ALL existing Imperial Guard Specialties should have this granted. It should not be automatic during Character creation to allow for non-Imperial Guard characters to be made by the GM using the same basic structure. Likewise Clothing and Armor should not count their full weight to encumbrance. Higher grade items (Flack Armor, Carapace Armor and the like) should count maybe half their mass to encumbrance, whilst lower grade armor (Chain mail) should count 2/3rds their mass. 3) The Entirety of the Armory should be audited and special care should be taken to separate Imperial Guard weapons from those of Space Marines. And then it needs to be remembered that 1 kilogram weighs 2.205 pounds! Pappystein
  14. KommissarK said: Gotta say, I'm not sure what you're getting at. The point of the launcher/mortar is that it can land a grenade at ranges that your average human has no hope of hitting by a simple throw. When was the last time you only had a -30 bonus to throw a grenade a 1.2 KM distance accurately? As far as missile launcher weights… 40k is not the real world, parity with real weapons is not needed. Also, given how much people are complaining about being encumbered already, I doubt adding even more to it is going to increase fun at most tables. So the gunner is carrying the 16 missiles, the launcher, his armour, and other "useful" pieces of his standard kit? Also, I would be sketchy on the use of a comrade to carry ammo like that. I guess that is their role, but nothing states how much. If I had to rule it, I would say thematically they do carry the ammo, but that the PC still needs to account for the weight. The benefit I would provide is to remove the risk of ammo detonating on certain critical effects. 35 kg missile launcher, 11 kg guard flak, 4 kg lasgun, and at least 3 kg worth of other stuff? And these 20kg of missiles? Whats his SB+TB? 10? KommissarK said: Gotta say, I'm not sure what you're getting at. The point of the launcher/mortar is that it can land a grenade at ranges that your average human has no hope of hitting by a simple throw. When was the last time you only had a -30 bonus to throw a grenade a 1.2 KM distance accurately? No my problem is the weight of the Mortar round and the Thrown grenade are for all intents and purposes the same/too close together. Also when is the last time you saw a Mortar do the same damage as a hand grenade? Even a 60mm Mortar does significantly more damage than a Hand grenade. KommissarK said: As far as missile launcher weights… 40k is not the real world, parity with real weapons is not needed. Also, given how much people are complaining about being encumbered already, I doubt adding even more to it is going to increase fun at most tables. So in short in the Higher tech world of the future, you are stating it is even lower tech than we are today? Sorry something is not right with that statement. I am not seeking pairity, I am seeking reason in a storm of what is currently not reasonable. Re Encumberence I am hoping to fix much of those complaints along this thread. The Launcher should be significantly lighter, Worn items (armor) should not count full weight as if it was carried (Armor is designed to support itself after all!) I am leaving for my play group shortly but I will post more on this later today
  15. I need to limit my scope here a little bit. Even though I am pretty good at converting Kilograms to my local Pounds (2.205kg to a pound) It escaped my mind briefly when I was looking at table 1-7. My main concern is the weight of many of the items in the Armory at this juncture. 35kg for the missile launcher for the above missile issue for example. again siting the modern (if now not in service) FGM-77 Dragon: The carrying weight of a missile round, including the launcher but not the tracker, was about 15 kg (33 lb). The Tracker masses in at about 3 kg so for the all up unit, launcher, missile and tracker 18kg. Instead we have 36kg for our weapon and it is shoulder fired (vs mounted to a Bipod as is the Dragon!) Pappystein
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