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Everything posted by Lionus

  1. If, as both you and I have pointed out, the chaos 'gods' are given power by, fed by, reflections of, or otherwise rely on mortals living outside of the warp, then they are necessarily ideas. They cannot be anything else. Slaanesh was born or created by the so called fall of the Eldar, just like all ideas must have a point of origination. Take Pascal's Wager for example. Before Pascal published that idea, it might have existed in someone else's mind, but had no force because it was only thought of by maybe a few. Since Pascal's Wager has been published in the world, is impossible to erase without burning books, wiping minds and other pretty extreme measures. without the psychic power of the materium, chaos cannot persist. Likewise, barring any extreme change in the psychic emissions coming from the materium, chaos cannot be permanently destroyed or killed. In other words, a point of origin doesn't automatically guarantee an ending point. Especially considering what fuels the 'gods'I'm not sure what any other gods, whether from fantasy or anything else has to to with the mortality of any 40k gods. I'm interested in what it is you're getting at by bringing them up. By the way, the big scary ritual you mention is what I was alluding to with the talk of uncomfortable sacrifices and unintended consequences. Maybe it wasn't as obvious as I thought it would be. I don't want to pour cold water on your idea, I actually really like it. I just know if I was playing a game and the gm told us we were gonna 'kill' a 'god' it would kill my immersion for realsies. I would just time it down to a daemon or something. There's precedent for that in the fluff too. If your player's think it's cool, totally ignore me. I would have too much cognitive dissonance to enjoy that. That's just me.
  2. Kill a chaos god? That's an interesting idea. I would like to make a couple points about that part of it rather than choose which one I think is more powerful than any other, which I don't even think is a useful conversation even though it is a fun one. First of all, any god is, at it's core nothing me than an idea. Ideas are immune to death (not the same as being immortal), they can only be forgotten. Ideas have no bodies to kill, and any god that had a corporeal body would be weaker for it. It would be limited to existing in one place at a time, it's body probably could be killed. I don't know how something like killing a god might be pulled off. Chaos gods each encompass reflections of the inhabitants of the galaxy, in evidence because they are fed by the thoughts and feelings of humanity, so killing a chaos god would probably entail destroying either a significant amount of humanity or changing human nature in some fundamental way. Those are my problems with the idea of killing a chaos god. I am intrigued with the concept though. The Emperor completely destroyed Horus do that even his soul or spirit or whatever couldn't be resurrected. Since this is apparently possible, maybe it would be possible for acolytes to utterly destroy a particularly powerful daemon. Not just banish it back to the warp, but they could find some way to end the daemons existence. it should be incredibly difficult to find, to perform, and should have a price so steep that each acolyte should not want to pay, and it should have some horifice sidea effects, possibly (probably) heretical ones. If successful, there would be a noticeable effect. If the baddest bloodthirster in the sector gets eliminated, wars and violent crime go down. For the main keeper of secrets in the sector gets taken out it could be that poverty across the sector gets significantly reduced and people seem genuinely happier and me helpful and friendly to each other. If a great unclean one gets offed, perhaps hospital admittance goes way down, or entire classes of diseases disappear overnight and people seem healthier and happier. If a lord of change is defeated maybe the pandemonium lessens to a significant degree. Whatever the changes, they would be likely to have some unintended consequences some of which might be pretty uncomfortable. Is important to note that these could be subtle changes for game play but significant over the course of a campaign. They would also be temporary, but for warp entities that could mean a couple thousand years with limited presence from one particular god. Another would move in our develop from the psychic emissions of the populace. That would be a huge win for the inquisition anyway, and the warband would be infamous. Revered by radicals for proving the efficacy of their methods, hunted by puritans for the blasphemy of using psychics against the warp but well in their way to their inevitable promotion to Inquisitor Lord. Just some thoughts.
  3. GW is going out of business. It's a last ditch effort to bring in some extra interest. They're blowing up the line cuz if they can't have it, no one can! The Emperor ascends to full Chaos godhood. Terra's sun explodes into a supernova of unprecedented scale that engulfs the entire Imperium. Guilliman leads a black crusade to the gates of the Imperial Palace, defended by the stalwart heroes of the Alpha Legion... for the rematch of the decade, wait, century, wait, millennium, wait, ten millenniums-es!!! While we're all speculating baselessly. This really IS fun!!
  4. I like this as well, and would be willing to try implementing it in my group, but most times, its more economical to buy toughness and have a reduction, or WS or agility to get a better shot at defending. Most of my players don't really buy a lot of sound constitution. It's a nice talent, but like you pointed out, expensive, and 1 or 2 wounds rarely make all the difference. Some difference sure, but not usually a whole lot. I'll run it by them though, and see what they say.
  5. I think there was a power in ascension that could create litterstorms, so I might be able to look back at that. Yeah, the characters are fairly advanced, and one now has adamantium faith (as of today), so normal fear won't even really be much of a thing against them. I mean that there will be chaos sigils on their clothing and skin. I might not even call for tests against that, its not like that new hat to them anymore. On psychic phenomenon, I learned from an experience this last weekend, that when daemons and sorcerers push every round, it's not even them that's scary, it's all the randomness that happens around them. That scared my players even more than the entity they were fighting. Location will be in a buried Xeno excavation site. Maybe inside a xeno ship buried in the ground, or in a city inside a mountain a la Moria or buried, but it will be in a xeno environment, it will be buried and it will be wide open in some places, but confined in others. Tons and tons of cover, buildings, vehicles and other set pieces (suggestions please!!) I'm envisioning a major old west style shootout. Context is the players will be crashing a meetup between a some very high end operatives representing extremely prominent business interests across the subsector (for this I'm using the Balphomael cult from Disciples of the Dark Gods), and a group of mutant workers that were subcontracted by someone on the cult's periphery to dig up certain artifacts as part of a related business venture to advance the ambitions of certain cult members. There will be mutants (some big and small and all kinds of weird), but there will also be some major league heavies with serious firepower. The best that money can buy across the planet. It's definitely gona be a tough fight, but the characters are relatively powerful (12,000ish xp). They will have to overcome both opponents, who will gang up on the PC's I thought one of the 'brother's' (or sister, I'm not absolutely certain they will be males, in fact a set of conjoined twin psykers with a baby that has no obvious deformities, but significant psychic potential could be a fantastic moral dilemma). Anyway, I thought one of the twins could be handling negotiations, while the other could be doing a divination to know there will be enemies around, but no more details. There will be both mutant patrols and patrols of heavies (they're allies, but don't like each other). The players can get in however they want, the obvious path being trying to take out the patrols and sentries on the QT and get the drop on the main meeting. The reason to make it really open, at least at the opening spot is to prevent the players from trying to snipe anyone, and make part of it a 'marine charge' from cover to cover to get in range. We use a 'look out, sir!' rule, where mook bodyguards can make an awareness test to take a hit for their master. Not just any mook, but specific ones. Players can benefit from it as well. That does help a little, when it works it can buy a round or two breathing room. So sniping and one shot's aren't the end of the world, but it requires a little to make that work out. I like the dogs idea, and I think I will use that, plus I imagine mutants living underground probably want a little love too, and nobody loves a mutant except their mother and a really ugly dog. The hired heavies will likely respond aggressively, counter attacking the acolytes, while the mutants will want to wait until the warband comes to them and then attempting to swarm them in a pre-designated killbox. The heavies will use paramilitary tactics and expencive communications to help coordinate their movements. The mutants will have low quality weapons and gear(and will probably use the one shot mook rules, except for a couple notables). but have a heavy weight of numbers. The leader of the heavies will have a vehicle with some serious armor and heavy weapons, and I haven't decided when he's gona cut and run. The mutant will definitely cut and run early, using his bodyguards and an entourage of devotees to shield and protect him, and the twisting terrain of the xeno ruins to try to disappear back to his bolt hole. He/she is not a fighter, and will only fight if necessary but will have serious potential to cause some randomness and damage. It made me laugh that a character almost exactly like I envisioned is skewered on the middle picture of the article on the upcoming hereticus supplement. It's probably not too different from how this guy is gona end up.
  6. The articles previewing the book talked a lot about it having a gazetteer of all the locations visited in the adventure. How did that pan out? That was what I was looking forward to the most. Not so much desoleum, but Thaur is one of the few places that seemed interesting initially. Voidships are always unique and interesting so I'm pretty curious as to how that was handled. Are there maps or layouts? What are the descriptions of the areas like? What is the life of the crew like? Does it have atmosphere in the text bubbles and descriptions that make sense, but somehow manage to seem to be 'warhammer-esque'?
  7. I'm a little reluctant to allow characters to be lifted up by telekenisis. The power itself is pretty limited in how much weight can be lifted anyway. 2xPR kg even at PR10 is only 22 pounds. Maybe more like darth vader at cloud city, he could throw stuff at them, causing them to use up their reactions before the other targets them, and their entourage starts shooting There used to be a power; I don't see it right now, but maybe i'm missing it, where the psyker created a storm of debris in an area. That would be a pretty handy thing here, and would also have the same effect as a cloud of insects or birds or whatever to hinder the players. There is telekine shield and telekine dome that add cover, those will be handy Iron arm will help as well if they end up in melee. I was thinking of objuration mechanicum, to take some of their nicer gear out, maybe some mind control powers to cause them to pause for a round, making them easier targets. Hallucination might be a good distraction, especially if they need to start making a getaway. Of course gate of infinity is the must have getaway power. Using Shape Flesh at a high PR could potentially give him quadraped or flyer or another trait that would help facilitate better mobility. I don't envision him as being particularly hobbled or agile, so I don't think I want to monkey around with agility too much. Prescience could be a good one, a nice buffer for him and his allies, but I agree that part of the fun of it is the direct combat between the players and the mutant. I like the idea of having to take WP tests for corruption or insanity based on this character's weirdness and runic inscriptions. That's already been a part of this investigation, so for sure that will be in! I've never thought of picking out some psychic phenomenon, but that's a pretty good idea, and a great way to showcase the weirdness and danger of a 2 headed chaos sorcerer and to make the combat itself more interesting for my players. Thanks!
  8. I agree completely with Johkmil. It is certainly fine to target characters indirectly by threatening their allies or companions; this is seen all the time in books and movies and is appropriate for certain situations and enemies. Other enemies, however, will not be afraid to attack a warband directly. These are very powerful enemies indeed, and if someone realizes the Inquisition is after them, they will have no choice but to respond. Killing an Inquisitorial cell will likely only buy some time, but might buy anywhere from a few days to years or more, depending on how involved the Inquisition is in the sector you describe. Back on topic, if someone with nefarious schemes detects authorities coming after them, sending a team of dedicated killers to intercept them isn't a stupid move, especially given that the warband is being as unsubtle as it seems to. An enemy would have plenty of opportunity and information to assemble a group customized to minimize the warband's advantages, and to exploit any weaknesses. This might be unfair to the players, but is (I think) a pretty realistic consequence of the player's actions. I think there was even a published adventure for first edition where the cell was being hunted by either another Inquisitors cell or an enemy of the Inquisition. If players want to fight, give them the fight of their lives. Let the chips fall where they may. It actually sounds like a pretty fun game to me!
  9. Ok, I will take that advice. I do have a tendency to make things more complicated than they need to be. Thanks! Sorry to get short with you Gregorius. maybe the way I described it wasn't as accurate as I thought. I also specifically shied away from using the word mutant right away, because technically conjoined twins aren't really mutants, but two separate people who's bodies formed together rather than separately. If I understand the genetics of it, which I might not. But for the purposes of the game, yes they have been corrupted body and soul by the effects of Chaos, and are beyond redemption in the eyes of the Inquisition. My impulse to do them on different initiave scores is to highlight that they are two individuals, but I do concede that it makes them much more difficult to run paperwork wise, and like I said, I do tend to make things too complicated. Especially for just one opponent of one fight. Coolio! Thanks for the input! I'm still open to suggestions on it; like how this particular enemy might fight, or what combinations of powers might work best in a situation like this, or what powers and tactics might be thematically appropriate for these enemies. I think I have what I need to start putting it together though. Thanks!!
  10. Right, it still doesn't allow 2 of any of the same type of action, but comes in incredibly useful when that extra +10 for a full round aim or a quick reload and shoot makes all the difference in the galaxy. Plus, it does lend a cinematic air to boss fights and more epic combats. I'm pretty fortunate to have good players that don't try to abuse it. Maybe there was a further restriction to it that I can't remember. I'm going to keep looking, but if you remember where it came from, please let me know.
  11. Looking at the back of the GM screen this weekend, I noticed something different than I expected and remembered. I've been very wrong about a use of fate for a very very long time. I always thought that one use of fate was to gain an additional half action in a round. I thought it was very fitting and cinematic, and have always allowed it; especially since it's led to some really great and fun scenes. I didn't see that on the GM screen, so I looked at the page it said, and it wasn't there. I looked back in my 1st edition book, and it wasn't there either. I have absolutely no idea where I got the idea from, and it's always been a thing in the games I've run. I don't intend to stop letting that be an option for my players. My question is, does anyone have any idea where that might have come from? And although I like it, gaining an additional half action in a round can be pretty game breaking. Am I alone in thinking this is an appropriate use of fate?
  12. No, it's not about initiative at all, really. That's actually a really small piece; and I was pretty sure I was clear earlier that each would have it's own initiative score to go on, not that they would share or trade them, or move up and down the order as they choose. They will both have two half actions, or a full round action plus a reaction. One will go on one initiative, the other will go on a separate initiative. The only rub is, that as if they were both on a vehicle, one would have to spend part of their action controlling the movement of both, as if one was 'driving' the other. I'm not really sure what else would be possible that would not normally be possible due to this "set up". Maybe you have a few ideas you could share? As was said before, I do see this as being a much weaker opponent than having two separate psykers, since they will have to share some wounds. Each head and arm will have some that correspond to one or the other, but the legs and torso will be as normal, and there would probably be less wounds than two separate enemies would. The total toughness would be cut in half, since each time they take a hit, the toughness would only count once, as opposed to having to overcome toughness on two separate characters, if that wording made sense. Also, there is two fewer arms and legs to move, take damage, or use items or weapons. There is only one reaction for both characters. The more I think about it, the worse an option it seems to try this, and the more incentive there is to NOT put an opponent like this in front of my players, who will likely make swiss cheese of them in just a few rounds. I'm still going to do it, though. It's an Ordo Malleus campaign; thematically, it's about betrayal, about poor and rejected people doing whatever they can to survive on the fringes, even if it's taking a helping hand from someone who gives them the heebie jeebies. It's about corruption and mutation and imposing order on chaos trying to impose chaos on order. The unusual, the sick, the perverse, the outcast and downtrodden are unwelcome everywhere except where they can do the most damage. My players can enjoy killing something so far from the holy form of the baseline human, then after picking up the pieces they can wrestle with the quandary of having killed someone with a miserable existence whose only sin was having been born. I have really good players, so that's going to be just as fun.
  13. They are Ordo Malleus, daemonology is a theme in the campaign. I have established at least one of their antagonists is aligned with Khorne. That would definitely be an interesting 'what if' scenario!
  14. Each 'head' would get a full action, each would act on different initiative scores. The 'legs' would only be able to move once, on either 'head's' initiative; and would count against that 'head's' total action for that round. Each 'arm' would be controlled by one 'head', and could fire a weapon or use a device, as part of the action of the 'head' that controls it. No one or nothing would be acting twice in a round, if one decides to use a psychic power that requires a full round action, then the arm that head 'controls' would forfeit any actions, but could react normally. I would say that each head would have it's own reaction, but would only be able to dodge once overall. It makes sense in my head, but I'm not sure I'm explaining it adequately. As far as when one dies, yes. Both will die of course, but yeah they would die separately and when one dies, it would cause all kinds of penalties to the remaining twin. I'm not sure exactly what I want it to do in terms of powers, I haven't given it any thought other than I wonder how it would work mechanically. I'm definitely open to suggestions as to what kind of strategies might work best.
  15. I have a question that I was hoping to get some opinions on. I'm planning on having my players go up against a conjoined twin psyker. My plan is that there is one body (obviously), that moves on one initiative, but that each twin gets a full action to attack, use a power or take any other actions on separate initiatives. So one or the other could move the pair of them on his initiative, but not both, where both could use a weapon, device or psychic power. What problems does anyone see with that? Any suggestions or ideas are appreciated.
  16. I'm really surprised that things like Chimera's are available for acolytes on a permanent basis, and I would probably house rule that they're shared assets that can be requisitioned for a period of time, but no longer than a week or two, unless the warband was operating in a certain area that Interrogators or Inquisitors deem such a long term deployment prudent. Much like the CIA and FBI have APC's as well, but undercover and field agents don't ride them from interview to interview. They do, however have up-armored SUV's and even MRAP's that they ride around in places like Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to mention that in a millennium that is dominated byt the 'only war' theme, there probably isn't a whole lot of old or extra APC's laying around on the open market. My experience with demilitarization of vehicles and vessels for divestment leads me to a few conclusions on how a warband might acquire a piece of equipment such as a Chimera. The first step is to remove all sensitive equipment. This includes all hardware and software that communicates with other military systems, vehicles or satellites such as radios, FBCB2, blueforce tracker and any other similar systems. Next any weapon systems are removed; permanently mounted weapons are removed and stored or destroyed, coaxial or pintle mounted weapon systems are removed. Smoke launchers or generators are removed as well. Next, any components that are still useful are removed to put back into the supply system for repairs to vehicles/vessels still in service. This includes winches, rare or obsolete pumps and other accessories. Finally, all military markings must be removed. Any markings that identify the hull as being associated with the army, navy or coast guard must be ground off and/or painted over so they cannot be read. Hull numbers and names are left on to preserve the legacy of the vessel, and so it can be tracked by safety and environmental protection regulators back to it's date of commissioning. Only after everything useful is taken off, including Basic Issue Items, weapons have been removed, and the vehicle/vessel can only be traced back to military service through research, and not casual observation*, will it be released for sale on the open market. This means that it is theoretically possible to obtain a working vehicle like a Chimera. It also means, however that it would be extremely unlikely that one would be available that has any weapons or equipment on board, and it might not even have everything it needs to run properly. Replacement parts might be Just as rare or difficult to find as the hull itself. Really obvious things might not work, like the motor that makes the turret traverse might be missing, or the back ramp might be welded shut with the hydraulic mechanism that raises and lowers it might be gone. Maintaining an APC is a lot of work, and phenomenally expensive item. It should require a lot of attention from a tech priest character. Trade (technomat) would not be sufficient to maintain such a complex piece of equipment. Another concern is that IRL, really common APC's are difficult to obtain, not because of their expense, but because of their usefulness. M113's are the most common APC in use, and are almost never up for sale because they are so versatile and so useful. Entities that posess them tend to hold on to them, and I imagine that as common and as useful as Chimera's are, they would probably be pretty difficult to find, but also there would be a lot of competing interested parties. Demand would almost always outpace supply. All this being said, it would be pretty rad to have one for those particularly well defended nests of cultists, and if my players wanted one I'd probably try to find a way to make one available, even if only for a certain period of time. *This pertains mostly to vessels. No one would mistake an APC for anything other than military origin.
  17. I've always been curious about the oath cog system, It doesn't make a lot of sense in certain ways. How would one go about obtaining certain necessities such as toiletries, clothes, food and other dailies. The worker house mentions salaries, but elsewhere it just talks about oaths for services. I find this to be particularly confusing, because there's no explanation of where oaths and money begin or end. Does each employer have a kind of 'company store' a la the old time Kentucky coal mines, where you can get whatever you want, it just adds to your servitude, or is there an actual open market where you owe labor to your employer, but get a stipend to spend at the farmers market or gambling dens or whatever. My confusion is further compounded by a lack of detailed description of oath cogs that describe how it might handle oaths to more than one group or individual. Maybe it's less of a clockwork device full of gears and pistons or whatnot and more like a smartphone app that tracks oaths electronically. I guess I just fail to see how the oath system works in any realistic way on a daily basis. Any description that would help me make sense of it would be appreciated.
  18. Psy rating might not have any effect on disorientation. Then again, it might. I've never had any memories stolen by psychic powers. It might have some pretty profound side effects. Waking up after a night of hard drinking does, and doesn't necessarily leave one physically able to punch back effectively within 6 seconds. But again, I have no other experience to compare it to, so 1 round might very well be sufficient. Maybe stunning at all isn't an appropriate way to mechanically deal with the power. Maybe it wouldn't have any real effect during a fight, just that somebody randomly forgets their mom's birthday and has to make a mental note to call her after the fight.
  19. I'm with you on understanding danger in the lizard brain, even if a character doesn't know how they got there. IIRC, stunning prevents most actions, but not reactions such as dodge. So, a character could protect themselves but it would take some time to orient themselves. The main reason I said PR rounds is to reflect the more power a psyker puts in the power, the more effective it would be. I'll probably modify it to the same duration as hallucinate. Rounds are about 6 seconds, so a fraction (1/10th) of a minute. Just because a power's duration is stated in rounds or minutes doesn't make any difference other than the duration. It wouldn't make much sense to say a power lasts 6 or 36 seconds, or that it lasts 1000 rounds. I don't see any real difference other than that. I don't have it in front of me, but IIRC, erasure allows a character to eliminate one memory up to ten minutes in the past, so a psyker could eliminate the memory of a combat. It doesn't say anything about any durations of the memory eliminated. Maybe its a full day. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
  20. Fair point. I didn't look at hallucination because my psyker player doesn't have it. We did discuss whether one round or PR rounds was more appropriate, and didn't look around for power level relative to similar powers. I do think erasure is more powerful than hallucinate, even though it is cheaper. I don't buy that either power is specifically for combat or narration.
  21. We just said that erasure causes target to be stunned for PR rounds
  22. Right. Maybe I didn't explain it well. I don't intend to inflict penalties as a result of narrative things, but the other way around. I'm looking for narrative ways to describe some of the things that go on while manifesting powers. Those are all very vivid descriptions, I like them and will incorporate them.
  23. When reading the fluff, whatever particular psychic discipline a character is said to have is usually described as being the most difficult. From a more practical perspective, which disciplines would seem to be the most difficult, and from a narrative standpoint, what are some things that might be worth describing to my players as reasons for failure, some bonuses or penalties assigned for distractions and environmental factors. More specifically, what do you think it might be like to actually manifest a power from your mind, and what would be the best way to describe it in narration. For example, I think telepathy would be incredibly difficult to control; sometimes its hard enough keeping all my thoughts straight, let alone adding a foreign mind to the mix. But describing how controlling fire, inanimate objects, meat and bone, and essentially fortune telling are all things characters can do. How do you describe to your players what goes on during the manifestation process?
  24. I also remember that the Inquisitor's Handbook had chase rules that always worked out well for us. It felt a little stilted, because it was based on a track of 0-10, rather than directly as a result of specific character attributes. Fortunately, we have a pretty good group, and narratively it was tied in to the environment nicely. On hip shooting, I don't think it's necessary to have a talent to try it, but that type of thing is fantastically difficult unless you're just spraying rounds on target. Take the Maersk Alabama hijacking, for instance. That's considered to have been one of the most difficult shots to make. Period. Shooting a towed, moving, bobbing target from another moving, bobbing platform, at a speed of IIRC 12 or so knots (around 15 mph). That's phenomenally a difficult shot, and it was taken by some of the most highly trained marksmen in the world. I'm sure there's tons of acolytes that could make it, but it shouldn't be easy. If you wana play call of duty, then play call of duty. This isn't call of duty.
  25. Thanks a lot! While reading some of that stuff, I guess when you were saying people get thrown off, you meant literally thrown O-F-F off. pretty wild! Anyway, I appreciate it, and if anyone has any other specific ideas on how to bring this grungy little corner of the galaxy to life for my players, I'd love to hear it.
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