Pincer move is best option.

2 heroes back track to the fire pit (via caravan) 2 heroes push to the ruins and kill goblins and block barghests from running in circles.

Send avric and either Loeric or Jain hunting and have Syndarel be primary camper with the other supporting.

Its a OL favored quest, and a heavily favored one one at that, but it looks winnable for the heroes. The reverse of first blood really (but at least the heroes have a possible chance, unlike first blood where the OL is doomed).

Would love to hear other peoples experiences. 

Best strategy i can see at a glance is for heroes to rush Goblins and eliminate them (with that party composition it should be possible - terrible rolls aside), The goblins re-spawn end of round so will in most instances sit there getting mulched without ever doing anything if heroes are present. 

First hero Turn Syndarel pops feat and use it with Loeric. Depending on goblin placement may be able to stamina move up and attack twice or may have to move+stamina attack once. Leoric, then stamina move and attack twice if range is good or move and stamina and attack once. Then Jain pops feat and scoots up and attacks twice (once from feat) Avric is carrying acolyte as he has no range weapon and wont be killing goblins.

Alternatively send Jain Fist with feat, then use Syndarel and see if you can position jain to abuse oath of honour to pop syndarel up.

Optimistically and depending on placement of goblins they may all be dead or severely depleted. If all dead press heroes on to deal with barghasts and spawning goblins, if not send appropriate hero to back up avric in wiping out remaining goblins then get back to business of killing spawns. 

You will just have to deal with barghast attacking or running away as it comes up - the priority here are goblins for me, keep them under control and you can keep the barghasts running or wear them down.
 
Alternatively you could play cagey and let the OL advance goblins to the camp site, yeah, he gets 1 stamina token at the end of his turn but if there are 4 heroes all the goblins should die quickly and then he is in the same boat of spawning 2 at the end of turn.

Either way make goblins die fast then kill re spawns fast
 
Unlike first blood in shadow rune though the OL gets a very realistic chance at this as the heroes have to be focused on pulping all goblins, even 1 or 2 getting by will cripple them quickly, but if the initial 5 are overwhelmed quickly the heroes can be reasonably happy to camp the lair and hunt down dead dogs at their leisure. 

This should be the next campaign i play so i will let you know how i fare - although i imagine we will be using different heroes and classes.

 

Backswing: Use immediately after performing an attack to chose any number of figures affected by that attack. Each of those figures tests Awareness. If none of the figure pass, each chosen figure suffers 2 Heart and is Stunned.

Regular minion Troll has no ability to attack more then 1 figure (overlord cards or other such interactions aside), ability text is clear, only heroes affected can then be targeted by backswing.
 
You are correct

That said, if another interaction allowed the troll to target multiple heroes with its attack, backswing would be applicable.

Backswing: Use immediately after performing an attack to chose any number of figures affected by that attack. Each of those figures tests Awareness. If none of the figure pass, each chosen figure suffers 2 Heart and is Stunned.

Regular minion Troll has no ability to attack more then 1 figure (overlord cards or other such interactions aside), ability text is clear, only heroes affected can then be targeted by backswing.
 
You are correct

That said, if another interaction allowed the troll to target multiple heroes with its attack, backswing would be applicable.

Backswing: Use immediately after performing an attack to chose any number of figures affected by that attack. Each of those figures tests Awareness. If none of the figure pass, each chosen figure suffers 2 Heart and is Stunned.

Regular minion Troll has no ability to attack more then 1 figure (overlord cards or other such interactions aside), ability text is clear, only heroes affected can then be targeted by backswing.
 
You are correct

That said, if another interaction allowed the troll to target multiple heroes with its attack, backswing would be applicable.

Got to say, the usual snowball Descent arguments are running through, if not directly popping up, in this to me.

Conditions are a very conditional (aha!) part of the game but undeniably powerful. The overlord has reliable access to them via open groups (which can let you virtually guarantee that you can get one that you want) or overlord class cards, but heroes can arguably benefit from them more because pinning that must kill monster (quest related lieutenant or something that must not do something this turn) is a game winner, while immobilizing 1 hero dosent stop the other 3.

Overlord cards are obviously game winners but they are random, im sure every overlord here has had at least one game crying out for a frenzy or dash to be here, in my hand, right !"£$ing now, and a few classes or characters can hard counter them through ability or feat (dangers sense and elder Mok say hi off the top of my head).

Quest are swingy by nature in this game, the hero/class/monster/item combinations, while not infinite, might as well be for practical purposes. A while back my group played back to back shadow rune campaigns and the interlude was like 2 different quests - first time around heroes cake walked it against an experienced overlord, 2nd time around got curb stomped by the relatively new OL player.

Obviously group plans tend to solidify over time, and players usually become accustomed to a style of play or role, you said you rotated out with another overlord player but what would happen if a third player took up OL duties?

Do they make vastly different choices for open groups? Do they ALWAYS pick web trap (I never leave my evil lair without it, even if the heroes are well attributed to pass it). Do they look at the last campaign and build a strategy that might have been good in the last setting but is now not useful against the current hero group?

What happens when the regular healer player is asked to play a scout? Do they look to play the same or do they try and adapt to a new role, and if so does the **** impact their decisions in regards not only to play but skill purchase and equipment picks? (does the last campaign  of being web trapped every.single.encounter, drive them to counter immobilize when i am no longer actively using it?)

And al of this before any player skill is brought into question. (inaccurate rules implementation that costs quests aside, that could have an epic stanza for itself)

The game can snowball immensity, i think everyone on these boards has seen it - but wishing that the quests where 'balanced' is a pipe dream, the variables are simply to many to extrapolate before it get lost in tedium. 

For the most part my games have had balanced games and wildly swingy quests. And even then the group loves it al the same. Acceptance that some quests are likely to be un-winnable only makes that unexpected success all the sweeter. 

Most of my games have been very close, but it heavily depends on the gaming group I play against.
 
The tricky part about Descent is that your party has to be capable in every category: Damage, Movement, Conditions; if the heroes don't get this, you are bound to come across a few quests that seem imbalanced, because the hero party either excells in the category that is the most important in the quest or totally lacks in this category. The result is a game that seems unwinnable for the OL or the heroes.
 
Your example is typical for that: The heroes needed to stop Skarn, but appearantly hadn't invested in stun or immobilize. Like your list shows, nearly every mage has access to these conditions (the Conjurer has a skill to stun, which is not on your list). Spending XP on these skills or getting weapons that inflict conditions has to be a priority, or else the heroes will be destroyed in quests where they have to stop someone.
 
My worst expiriences with this game was against a gaming group that only maximized damage, because it thought everything else is just weak. They lost every game and trashed the game hard on every occasion ("I can't believe this sh*t game is from FFG") even when I told them why they lose, they didn't believe me and said something like "ok so if we immobilize him the game would have lasted maybe one more turn, but that wouldn't make a difference." It seems like this undervaluation of everything that isn't boosting damage is quite common. If the hero-party thinks that this is the only fun way to play dungeon crawlers, I would recommend Imperial Assault that has a much more one-dimensional approach to it, has more emphasis on combat and is much less puzzly.

Its hard to say whats causes people to lose in descent - there are so many variables including number of players, class choice, hero choice etc, before you even get to the respective skill of the individual players.
Simple maths however determines that fewer heroes struggle due simply to action economy.
2 heroes have 4 actions a hero round (abilities/feats/skills not withstanding). Looking at the original Shadow rune intro quest a the overlord would have 1 ettin and 3 goblin archers, 8 actions in his turn.
Now consider that each attack has a 1/6 (or thereabouts chance to miss) which essentially wastes an entire action which hurts a LOT more when you only have a 4 a turn.
Then consider that without a healer the heroes have very few ways to recover damage so if 1 of your 2 heroes isn't fixing you up your going to end up getting knocked down a lot (which wastes an entire turn if your partner cant pick you up.)
The game is essentially balanced and built around 4 heroes, the 3 player variant is usually in the heroes favor - for similar reasons - and the faq amendments address the biggest issue 2 hero games had quite well, the free regular attack or 2 heart recovery lets the heroes do more but not spam more powerful abilities. 

Its hard to say whats causes people to lose in descent - there are so many variables including number of players, class choice, hero choice etc, before you even get to the respective skill of the individual players.
Simple maths however determines that fewer heroes struggle due simply to action economy.
2 heroes have 4 actions a hero round (abilities/feats/skills not withstanding). Looking at the original Shadow rune intro quest a the overlord would have 1 ettin and 3 goblin archers, 8 actions in his turn.
Now consider that each attack has a 1/6 (or thereabouts chance to miss) which essentially wastes an entire action which hurts a LOT more when you only have a 4 a turn.
Then consider that without a healer the heroes have very few ways to recover damage so if 1 of your 2 heroes isn't fixing you up your going to end up getting knocked down a lot (which wastes an entire turn if your partner cant pick you up.)
The game is essentially balanced and built around 4 heroes, the 3 player variant is usually in the heroes favor - for similar reasons - and the faq amendments address the biggest issue 2 hero games had quite well, the free regular attack or 2 heart recovery lets the heroes do more but not spam more powerful abilities. 

Not a lot of warriors chucking that about though

Best strategy i can see at a glance is for heroes to rush Goblins and eliminate them (with that party composition it should be possible - terrible rolls aside), The goblins re-spawn end of round so will in most instances sit there getting mulched without ever doing anything if heroes are present. 

First hero Turn Syndarel pops feat and use it with Loeric. Depending on goblin placement may be able to stamina move up and attack twice or may have to move+stamina attack once. Leoric, then stamina move and attack twice if range is good or move and stamina and attack once. Then Jain pops feat and scoots up and attacks twice (once from feat) Avric is carrying acolyte as he has no range weapon and wont be killing goblins.

Alternatively send Jain Fist with feat, then use Syndarel and see if you can position jain to abuse oath of honour to pop syndarel up.

Optimistically and depending on placement of goblins they may all be dead or severely depleted. If all dead press heroes on to deal with barghasts and spawning goblins, if not send appropriate hero to back up avric in wiping out remaining goblins then get back to business of killing spawns. 

You will just have to deal with barghast attacking or running away as it comes up - the priority here are goblins for me, keep them under control and you can keep the barghasts running or wear them down.
 
Alternatively you could play cagey and let the OL advance goblins to the camp site, yeah, he gets 1 stamina token at the end of his turn but if there are 4 heroes all the goblins should die quickly and then he is in the same boat of spawning 2 at the end of turn.

Either way make goblins die fast then kill re spawns fast
 
Unlike first blood in shadow rune though the OL gets a very realistic chance at this as the heroes have to be focused on pulping all goblins, even 1 or 2 getting by will cripple them quickly, but if the initial 5 are overwhelmed quickly the heroes can be reasonably happy to camp the lair and hunt down dead dogs at their leisure. 

This should be the next campaign i play so i will let you know how i fare - although i imagine we will be using different heroes and classes.

 

Movement is a bit weird at the start of the descent learning process.

Technically a move action does not actually make you move but gives you a pool of movement points equal to your speed.
This could be supplemented by then using stamina to add movement points or taking a second move action to add more movement points (bear in mind this can be done over the course of the turn).

If terrain is impeding movement, like with a water space, then each space costs 2 points of movement to enter, if you only have 1 point you cannot pay the cost and cannot move into the water space.

But as mentioned you can augment your movement pool (take a move action to get 5MP, then use 1 stamina for 1MP = 6MP or 3 water spaces. OR double move to have 10MP = 5 water spaces.

Unfortunately I cant advise on the scenario as i dont have it in front of me.



 

Born in battle will trigger for each monster killed.

Deep wounds will apply once, to a monster you chose.

The reason for this is that born in battle has a trigger but no limiting 'cost' as such ie, you don't exhaust the card

Deep wounds could trigger on any of the monsters attacked assuming they meet the condition ( take at least 1 damage), but once it is used it is exhausted, so if you went to activate it again the 'cost' cannot be paid.

Hello, and welcome to the forums.

Unfortunately in regards to your question - Nope,

Nothing in the base rules allows this - you have 2 actions total and may trade stamina for movement points (this does not cost an action).

Some skills, cards or items may allow you to gain an extra action but not as you have described.

Rules question: Does the crowhag's lifethirst affect knocked out heroes? What about the OL card "Trading Pains"? I suspect no on both counts, but would appreciate confirmation. Thanks!
 
Answer:Yes, both the Crow Hag’s Lifethirst and the OL card Trading Pains affect knocked-out heroes. Because these heroes can be targeted for healing abilities, abilities that affect healing would still affect the healing of knocked-out heroes.
  Thanks for playing, Kara Centell-Dunk Game Developer   That's a surprise to me, but we have our answer for this ability. Crow Hags are apparently one of those monsters the heroes just can't afford to ignore. The explanation makes sense. The healing ability is treating that token as a hero, and the healing-nullification triggers off of the healing. That is, it can target a hero token because it is sort of a "negative-healing" ability.

From the Rule Book:
 
A player controls a token if there is at least one friendly figure
on or adjacent to the token and there are no hostile figures on
or adjacent to the token.
-- If both friendly and hostile figures are on or adjacent to the
token, no one controls the token.
 
Unless there are more specific rules in the Get To the Ship Mission Briefing, I would rule that one character can control multiple objectives so long as no hostile figure is adjacent to the token(s).
 

Counter to most peoples suggestion i would refrain from buying all the core lieutenants quickly, dont know what the USA pricing is like but in the UK each lieutenant goes for about £10 with the base game selling at about £60-65.

Yes minis are great, and yes plot decks are useful, and yes the collector in me needs them all, but that's 6 figures and a one per campaign plot deck for roughly the cost of the whole **** game.

grab 1 or 2 and then fill up as you go.

IMO a much better route is a mini expansion (wyrm, troll or manor) and a hero and monster pack, then another big campaign box. 

The question has been submitted- I'll relay the answer when I get it. If they target KO heroes and stack, I agree- that is just evil.

There is a rule priority in descent- but there is nothing allowong you to override one card with another (song of mending does not override the reanimate's "no health recovery" rule.) You cannot use ronan to trade the elixir.

I second this notion. The plot decks are an interesting mechanic- but remember that you can only use one per campaign, and they have no place in mini campaigns, epic play, or coop modules. The LT minis are indeed good sculpts, but if you're just buying it for the mini, at $9-$13 per mini (US prices) I can't recommend that unless you're someone who really really dislikes tokens or really, really like minis. The price for utility ratio puts the LT packs on the lowest tier of priority for me personally. I have the important lieutenants (the big baddies of each story- Mirklace, Queen Ariad, etc) and the others I'll get when/if I have a reason to.

...during a move action.

As some of you know, I have some serious medical issues.
 
Several days ago, I returned home, from a nearly 16 month hospital stay.  You cannot even imagine how sweet it is to be home.
 
I have spent the past few days getting the rest of my life in order.  But since I have not had any gaming opportunities based on where I was at, I have felt massive withdrawal symptoms.  No Descent 1e, Descent 2e, no X-Wing, no BAHOTH, no Catan, no nothing.
 
I have had to satisfy any cravings by reading this forum (when I was physically, mentally, and health-wise up to it).
 
Last night, for the first time in more than a year and a half, I played Descent Second Edition.  A friend stopped by, and we fired up Forgotten Souls.  My first ever run-through of FFG's co-op.
 
G-d **** did we have fun.  And **** if we didn't get our asses handed to us.  Lost the game in the second room.  Still ...
 
How sweet it is to be home.  How sweet it is to indulge in some of my favorite things.  How sweet it is to have good friends that drop everything, and stop by to play a board game.
 
I have plans to have multiple friends come stay with me around mid-July.  They will probably be here for several months.  Our intent will be to do nothing but game all day long.
 
After it is over, I may need to go back into the hospital ...     
 
 

As Descent is largely an action economy game burning 2 actions to revive would cripple heroes to me eyes, and i speak as the regular overlord.

Its why the stand up action is so crippling to the player using it - if they have wandered off and have to get up on their own they are unlikely to survive for long.

The reason "Soothing Insight" is prohibited is due to the fact that knocked out heroes are not on the map- hero tokens are. Hero tokens are not heroes, and are only allowed to be considered heroes for abilities that directly heal damage (I've bolded the relevant section from the base game rulebook):
While monster attacks cannot target or affect a knocked out
hero, hero players may only target a knocked out hero with an
ability that would allow the knocked out hero to recover any
amount of damage. For this exception, the knocked out hero’s
hero token is treated as a hero even if another figure occupies
the space containing the hero token.
In the FAQ, FFG clearly makes the distinction that "Soothing Insight" is not an ability that allows heroes to recover wound as described by this passage- it is an ability that gives the insight token, and receiving the insight token has the benefit of granting damage recovery. "All-Seeing" also does not provide wound recovery- it grants the insight token to a hero when another hero discards it.
For the same reason that you can't choose the knocked out hero to receive the insight token when exhausting "Soothing Insight," you cannot choose the knocked out hero to receive the image token when exhausting "All-Seeing." This is because in both cases, the mode of damage recovery is exactly the same- the text on "Soothing Insight" that says, "When a hero gains the insight token, he recovers 1 damage and 1 fatigue." Since the healing mechanism is identical for both abilities, it follows that the legitimacy of targeting (or not targeting) a knocked out hero with either ability is the same- in this case, decidedly not legitimate as expressed in the FAQ. Even if "All-Seeing" had a different healing mechanic, the core components of the ability are the same:
1) A trigger occurs. In the case of "Soothing Insight," exhausting the card during your turn. In the case of "All-Seeing", a hero discards the insight token.
2) The prophet chooses a hero.
3) That hero receives the insight token.
4) Because the hero receives the insight token, he recovers a wound and a fatigue.
Since (3) is not "the hero recovers wound," the knocked out hero token is not a valid choice for step (2).

Honestly, before the FAQ I was of the opinion that Soothing Insight would be valid, since by giving the hero the insight token, the hero "would recover some amount of wound." However, the FAQ makes it clear that the ability isn't a "healing" ability, it's a "giving the insight token" ability, and healing is just a side effect of giving the insight token. This is different than, say, (new) Andira's heroic feat:
 
"[Action] Choose a hero within 3 spaces of you. Then, perform an attack that targets a monster within 3 spaces of you. The chosen hero recovers damage equal to twice the amount of damge the target monster suffers from this attack." 
 
A knocked out hero is able to be chosen here because the result of him being targeted is explicitly recovering damage.