Underworld40k
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Posts posted by Underworld40k
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Thought as much. Always thanks for the quick answer
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Sorry to revive an old thread but just want to confirm that the new Theon, who i will no doubt be seeing a lot of, CAN NOT be cancelled by KL Ned as the response on theon reads:
Response: After a unique character is discarded from the top of an opponent's deck, put Theon Greyjoy into play from your dead pile.'
As it is refers to itself and has no 'choose' wording Ned's cancel cant interact with it?The thread makes note of this, but thats with winterfell reserves response inadvertently interacting with a noble, not a noble interacting with itself although the logic and wording leads me to the same conclusion, Ned cant cancel it.
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Cheers Ratatoskr, read all of those on their own but it really needs all 3 of them together to appear 'obvious' (well, as obvious as FFG will make it). Its the LotR iron throne and death by payne that has been causing us headaches atm, esp with Meera.
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On a related note, is there a section in the faq im missing that spells out that out of play character abilities are considered effects? Had a look and cant seem to spot it (although with my brain currently drowning in a poison of its own making i may well have read it a dozen times over and not seen it...). Or is it one of those rulings that FFG have had for years since before i even picked up my cards?
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Ghh, after all my good work yesterday undone by the flimsy and tired grey matter between my ears.
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Edit: In fear of winter conditions you could play 1 bloodrider to cancel, thats your card for the turn, then they can trigger the effect on cat/drogo again and still put them into play.
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Same as sea sick, you will cancel the ability, and play your blood rider, the player with cat or drogo will simply trigger the effect again for their hand until you run out of cancels or let it through. In fear of winter conditions this still applies to cat and drogo as the card never comes into play when it is cancelled.
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New there was something i would be missing.
Thanks for the detailed response as always, time to order myself some more beyond the wall packs for frozen moat goodness
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Quick question after a debate with my groups Lannister player.
Knowing that i run frozen moat in a lot of my stark decks they enquired what would happen if tyrion is in a challenge and then blanked. My inital thought was nothing, the clansmen are participating as soon as tyrion is, the loss of his passive dosent change that once its under way much like icon removal dose not remove a character, or blanking a text box after lasting ability has been used (like Robb stark LOW or CS Drogo)This seems to be supported by the faq
"Once a character is in a challenge, it can only be removed from that challenge by an effect that specifically removes the character from a challenge, an effect that removes the character from play, or by an effect that changes control of that character."Its simple if tyrion is stood and declared in a challenge again, after his text block is blank its blank and thats that, but i've never played against a card like tyrion before and am curious how it actually works, also it will make the lannister player much happier to know one way or the other.
I assume that i have missed something or have interpreted something incorrectly while debating this in my group and as im more or less the rules guy for my group im in need of a higher authority -
ktom said:
To throw one more consideration in there: Once Tyrion is saved successfully, he isn't going to be killed by the effect anymore. Therefore, there is nothing to save him from, and the play restrictions for the save effect are essentially not met.
Cant believe i missed the most obvious answer...
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Phew, you gave me a mild panic for a moment when i saw what you had quoted, glad to know i got this one right!
Also kudos on the humour! -
Just a quick query on where i can find some specifics on how the lasting effect for these 2 cards, and others like them, can be found in the faq?
My understanding was that cards or effects that would blank a text block will not stop cards like cat and drogo being used or returning to hand as they create a lasting effect from an out of play area which will resolve even if the cards text block is blank when it enters play, but i couldnt spot anything conclusive in the faq.
Or have i got this horribly horribly wrong (which will involve much grovelling to my play group) -
I think that the answer is no, tyrions response is: Response: Kneel a Clansman character to save Tyrion Lannister from being killed. There is no variable, such as X clansmen, nor can you use use the response more than once per trigger.
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Excellent, cheers for clearing that up guys.
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Val has always confused me a little, i understand the idea of how her mechanic works, but not the specifics, can cards like godswoods/fifedoms/streets be used to lower the cost of a character that she might draw? Can Robb stark (kots) make an army free to play? Are normal play restrictions in effect, limited keyword for example?
By my understanding you cant use reducing locations or robbs ability as they themselves are actions and val stipulates that your NEXT action must be to play the card if able, also that restrictions like limited apply as nothing in vals text allows you t bypass this.
Is there anything im missing or not getting? -
They will discard themselves as the effect is passive, it was a response then you would have the option to rigger or not trigger the response, as its passive its going to happen if you want it to or not.
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there is no limit to the number of non unique's you can have in play afaik, aside the obvious only 3 of a card in a deck, each one acts as an individual entity in terms of effects and should count as such in the dead pile.
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As far as my understanding goes gregor need a character to actually hit the dead pile to resolve, the save essentially cancels the moribund state: dead pile and keeps the character in play, thus gregor cant resolve.
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It says each character, not unique's only or any such stipulation so count away, outside of a very few select circumstances that i can think of unique characters are only going to get one copy in the dead pile anyway.
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Go FFG recycle!
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Ktom, as always your detailed analysis is excellent, really glad that we got it right as i had argued for it despite my gut instinct which is what had been nagging me.
Ratatoskr said:It's probably best to think of it as distinct Framework Action Windows with one Framework Event that says "The First Player has the opportunity to bring one card out of Shadows" resp. "The player to the left of the First Player has the opportunity to bring one card out of Shadows" etc., right?
Pretty much how we decided it would work, the FAQ could do with being clearer in regard to its timing imo but shadows are so unique in timing that it would probably seem overly complex. -
Just a quick query on something that has been bugging me for a while, just had a rummage on the faq but couldnt find anything.
What is the timing for bringing a card out of shadows exactly?
I understand that at the start of each phase each player can bring 1 card out of shadows starting with the first player, if you pass on the option you have to wait until the next phase or use a shadows card ability to bring a card out via its own option and restrictions.
The real question iswhere is that first chance to bring a shadows card into play in the timing structure? Does it create a new framework event? Does it take place at the first available player action window?
The wording in the shadows rules says
"At the beginning of the any phase, a card that is in Shadows can come
out of Shadows and into play at the discretion of the player controlling
the card"
" This happens before any other "beginning of the phase" effects occur."
The any phase and beginning are what are confusing the issue for me and my group, as with some debated, but agreed, house ruling we have been playing them before the first framework event, which means that characters brought out at dominance count strength and a black cells triggered at the standing phase can keep a character knelt.
My gut says its wrong and that 'any phase' indicates player action window timing, 'beginning' however indicates pre framework from an easy to understand point of view.
I fully expect that i have missed something really obvious but while it hasn't broken any of our games the clarification is always welcome. -
As soon as FFG reprint that chapter pack in the 60 card variety i am buying 3 of them just to have 9 to be a wolf, it would go in EVERY stark deck i build for its flexibility. Alas, this seems to be some time away.
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Im re-building a Strak armies deck built around 3x kots Robb and while i feel im hitting a fair mix of characters and locations for cost/str/ability im really stumped on ways to speed the deck up in terms of draw, or search as an alternative.
Im running 2x the blackfish as renown is always welcome and he makes for a solid draw engine in his own right but my guards at riverrun are sitting in another deck and i feel would be competing with to many other cards given that i want to maximise Robbs ability while retaining flexibility with other characters. As i will be running roose bolton and 3x flayed men and 3x the bastards elite i was tempted by the dreadfort but 2 gold for an ability that may only be triggered a few times means that i wouldnt want to run more than 1 which only adds to the chances of it being redundant.
Any body got alternative draw/search suggestions? The most obvious i can think of is 'to be a wolf' but getting copies of it is very hard (im in the uk, and the older cycle packs and like hens teeth, and even then i would need multiple packs )
The deck is designed mostly for joust, but due to the nature of our play group is liable to see some melee game time as well, its previous incarnation did well in my meta's joust games and had a habit of getting to around 13-14 power and then faltering at the last in melee, currently the list looks like this.
House Stark I
Agendas (1)
The Siege of Winterfell Lords of Winter 1
Plots (7)
Summoning Season Core Set 1
The Power of Arms Core Set 2
Take Them by Surprise Lords of Winter 1
Fear of Winter Beyond the Wall 1
Storm of Swords Lords of Winter 1
Respect of the Old Gods Lords of Winter 1
Characters (37)
Bolton Refugee Refugees of War 3
Ser Jorah Mormont Princes of the Sun 1
Shaggydog Core Set 1
Northern Cavalry Flank Scattered Armies 2
The Bastard's Elite Rituals of R''hllor 3
Robb Stark Kings of the Sea 3
Hodor Core Set 1
Northern Infantry Scattered Armies 2
Roose Bolton Dreadfort Betrayal 1
Arya Stark City of Secrets 1
The Flayed Men Dreadfort Betrayal 3
Catelyn Stark Lords of Winter 1
King Robb's Companions Lords of Winter 1
King Robb's Host War of the Five Kings 1
Maester Luwin Forging the Chain 1
Riders of the Red Fork Forging the Chain 3
The Blackfish Lords of Winter 2
Old Nan Battle of Ruby Ford 1
The Hound Princes of the Sun 1
Brienne of Tarth Princes of the Sun 1
Meera Reed Tourney For The Hand 1
Jeyne Westerling A Song of Summer 3
Events (4)
Die by the Sword Lords of Winter 3
Battle of Ruby Ford Battle of Ruby Ford 1
Distinct Master Core 3
Locations (15)
Narrow Sea Kings of the Storm 3
Great Keep Lords of Winter 3
Northern Fiefdoms Lords of Winter 3
Street of Steel Lords of Winter 1
Frozen Moat Beyond the Wall 2
Frozen Outpost Lords of Winter 2
Lord Eddard's Chambers Lords of Winter 1
Attachments (3)
Frozen Solid Lords of Winter 3
Thoughts on draw/search, and any comments in general welcome and needed
Trait Buff Robb
in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion
Posted
The trigger that creates the strength buff is a lasting one till the end of the phase, so it will continue to apply to any character who meets the criteria so when bringing Robb back he will come into play and straight away get his +1/+2 for that phase.
Being able to trigger it again is something that im not sure on but i would go with no, while cards have no 'memory' of what they where ,or have done when in play my understanding is that the game will keep track of effects and limits and Robbs triggered ability will still be in effect, its a little trickier as its not a limited response (only 1 limited response per round), but if robbs ability is canceled then its limit is still reached and couldnt be triggered again and i suspect something similar will stop it being triggered again should he return form the dead pile.