J_Roel said: When you say the player was chosen so that his new army would be killed to Valar, what do you mean? No matter which order the players went, with the new version of the faq, the army would be killed to Valar regardless. Or, if you meant that the player was chosen to satisfy Valar's effect, all players must kill all characters that they cannot save. Is this how the faq is actually interpreted? My timing understanding may be a little skewed at this point but i was not reading it that it would affect cards played via at the gates/manning the walls etc as valar will be 'resolved' in the order chosen by the FP Ie, valar and at the gates are flipped, valar resolves first, all characters are moribund dead unless saved, if a response to this would bring a character into play (blookdrider being played to cancel a save/darkstar being discarded for starfall healer) then they are around when valar resolves and the final moribund destination is assigned, and as such eligable to be killed. Valar is now 'resolved' and at the gates may be 'resolved'.

I believe that the challenge is considered active until the final framework action window shuts, so anything played as a response to winning/losing would be covered by the crone.

J_Roel said: Beaten to the punch again, ha Sorry about that!

If you have 2 attachments, that require a character to kneel, one character cant fuel both at once. aGoT actions happen one at a time so you would trigger attachment A, pay its cost of kneeling a character, then your opponent would get an action oppertunity, then you would use attachment B and pay its cost by kneeling a character. This is opposed to an effect that works from a character being knelt, one character being knelt could trigger a whole host of 'when knelt' responses. Using the chains as an example, if you had a copper, tin, black iron and iron link on a character and he is knelt then you can trigger all of them (Still in a linear fashion, so pick 1 and resolve then another etc) The example you give for the link being triggered after kneeling to defend/attack is confusing me slightly because im probably reading it incorrectly. But if your asking if an attachment that requires a character to be knelt can be paid for by declaring a charcter as attacking or defending then no, you cant. They are two seperate actions, independant of each other. However, like i said before, effects that respond to kneeling, unless otherwise specified, can be triggered from attacking/defending.

According to the faq Dupes are considered to have no text, titles, traits, or crests. Which means that sadly they cant be used to trigger widows watch

Ok, your example give some basic timing issues to deal with which we can walk through. Tywin kneels to attack. Oldtown advisor kneels to defend, at this point you can use the response on iron link to give a character +2 str and a military icon. Lannister player plays your writ small; Tywin gains deadly. IF the oldtown advisor was STANDING, he could be knelt to cancel the effect. He is not so you cannot pay the cost of his effect. Any other player actions and then to challenge resolution. In the same way that you cannot pay the cost to cancel the event you cannot use the gold and Valeryan links if the advisor is already knelt, and unless you have a effect to stand him you can only use 1 of those links a turn as they kneel him as part of the cards cost. Ie, kneel him with valeryan link to draw x cards, go to use gold link, he is already knelt so it cant trigger. However, when he is knelt by the gold or valeryan link the response on steel link is viable as that looks at the character being knelt, it dosent check how he is knelt, only that he has BEEN knelt. Hope that helps, a lot of the timing issues can be cleared up with the faq sat next to you and your opponent so you can work your way through it step by step. Its incredibly slow and frustrating the first few times but once you have it down things run much more smoothly. Im sure that ive made a small mistake or two somewhere (probably with wording), more knowledgable folk will hopefully patch up any errors ive made,

My apologies, i should have worked its through to its proper conclusion. Deadly resolves as a passive, as is clarified in the faq, so it comes into effect after renown is granted, so your friend will still win as as SOON as he get 15 power as the game ends so deadly never has a chance to come into effect. The real part i still sometimes struggle with, and struggle to articulate well, is moribund and power after a challenge resolves. When a card would be killed/discarded/returned to hand/deck or shadows, and is NOT saved, it is not immediatley removed from the table that happens as the very last thing in the action window. As an example, Joffrey baratheon (core set version, Lord. Response: after a lord or lady character is killed joffrey claims 1 power, limit 3 times per round) is in play and between the power on his controllers house card and on joffrey he has 14 power. His opponent has 0 power and 1 character with a military icon and decides that a dead joffrey is the best joffrey and attacks in a military challenge. He wins and with no other character to use for claim, and no saves, the lannister player has to kill Joffrey, who becomes moribund:dead. The problem is that as joffery stays on the table until the END of the window he is eligable to use his response to himself dying. He claims 1 power, and the lannister player goes to 15 and wins. Im hoping this helps but is more likely to confuse further so im hoping that ktom or one of the other rules gurus can save my horrible explanation

If you look at the faq it will break down all the timing structures in detail for you, but basically your friend will win, quick short hand goes something like this. 1. Work out who won. 2. Do Claim 3. Unopposed power granted. 4. Renown Granted. (your friend wins here) After that passives trigger, after those responses can be triggered like Ellaria Hope this helps

Just a quick question, the latest version of bran reads 'kneel a direwolf to stand bran stark. Then bran stark gains (choose 1) a military icon, stealth or deadly until the end of the phase. If bran becomes a direwolf is he a valid target for his own ability FROM STANDING. ie, bran is standing, can i kneel him to stand him and gain 1 effect of my choice and repeate till he has all 3?

Power of blood is not a 'when revealed' plot card. It is active from the moment you turn it over.

My gut says that he stays put. He cannot be put into play, which is an absolute, but the agenda is considered out of play so i dont see how its going to end up in the discard pile. My guess is the effect fizzels.

Flip a coin, guess number of tokens in hand, pretty much any method you want. Afaik there is no 'official' rule for it.

I believe that you dont have to pay the cost again, that is 'paid' in a sense by rickon kneeling, you only copy the effect. Seeing as the effect is copied it should include any constraints of the original effect, if you copy summoning/building then you pick another opponent (only really important in melee) and in to be a wolf the opponent would nominate a type you could not search for. I think… So basically, i agree with you

texhnolyzed said: 1 - Khal Drogo, QoD set #21. The card reads that when he dies, you can search for X dothraki characters. What happens if Drogo has any duplicates, and I use one to save him ? Do I still search for dothraki cards or not ? I suppose not as he is saved and thus not killed but still the question remains… You are correct, if khal drogo is saved he dosent die and that means you cant trigger his save. This is true regardless of they type of save, if he wont be hitting the dead pile then you cant search. texhnolyzed said: 2 - Black Hatchling (and other hatchling in fact), QoD set #18. In the upper left corner, the gold cost icon states that the card costs zero gold… But there is a small S by its side, what does that mean ? The s means that it is a shadows cards, they have their own rules and mechanics. Have a look in the support section of the website if you dont have any of the sheets explaining the mechanic (they come bundled in most chapter packs)texhnolyzed said: 3 - Blue-Lipped Warlock, QoD set #13. The card reads that you can use his ability only if there are at least 3 characters in your dead pile. Does that count duplicates or cards with different titles ? To be clear, can I have 3 cards titled "A" in my dead pile to trigger the ability or do I need to have 3 cards titled "A", "B" and "C" for example ? Its relatively rare to see multiples of the same unique in the dead pile (remember, dupes are discarded if the character hits the dead pile; for example if it cant be saved this turn) and im not entirely sure how that would work (i would argue that multiple of the same UNIQUE do not count for such limits) but any non uniques are an individual character to count in the dead pile just as they are when they are in play, so if you have 3 horesback archers in your dead pile your blue lip warlock is good to go.

While my explanation and reasoning are probably wrong im pretty sure you cant do option 1. I believe It is not a 'choice' in the same way that theon (pots version), shield dromon islands, or sorrowful man are where the wording allows you to chose an option that you cant fullfill (silly as that sounds) because there will ALWAYS be a viable option available when daario has been played. Option 2 is certainly not viable as 'cannot' will not allow you to pick that character for an effect that it cannot be effected by. In the same way you cannot choose a 'cannot be killed' character to die for military claim. Hope that helps

Thats about the size of it. The worst bit is that with the character/attachment characters like shaggy if the character version ends up in the dead pile then the attachment version isnt going to et played at all.

MrFixit said: i thought that first - but couldn't find anything about that in the rules. The sentence i quoted in my answer was an actual quote from the rule book. Thats because it cheekily hides in the faq (4.8) Card Title A player may only include up to 3 copies of a card with the same title in his or her draw deck regardless of card type. This restriction does not include the usage of plot cards. Sorry, forgot to reference my source

Think the only one you got wrong is the number of cards. The game looks at the title of the card, so you can have 3 khal drogo' cards. Within that 3 you can mix and match so to speak, the first you play is the active card, another version will enter as a dupe (you cant swap which one your using). If 1 ends up in the dead pile you cant play any others at all. If the active one is discarded then you can play another version (as they are not in the dead pile) and that version will be the one that you have in play rules wise. Its the same for cards that have the same title but a diffrent type, like shaggydog which has a character and attachment version, you can only run 3 shaggydogs in the deck total.

Going moribund does not stop a card being able to use, or being used to pay for costs afaik. The only thing they cant do is change moribund destination, again, afaik. Duplicates are considered to have no title, traits, text or icons, they are more or less just blank pieces of cardboard. So when the dupe of ser jorah is removed the game dosen't recognise it as ser jorah but a generic dupe, thus his passive is not triggered. Awaiting Ktom to explain why im worng (i will almost certainly be on something )

Doh, misinterpreted the effects. I blame mondays. Brain not yet engaged.

In the case of conflicting issues its the first player who decides. Personally i think that the the feral pack will strip deadly full stop for all practical intents and purposes, but it probably is the case that FP gets the nod.

There is no list of traits at all that i know of, but as the harp gives EVERY trait then it makes the character a valid target for every trait based ability, want to be able to throw more dragons into challenges to trigger the queen of dragons rhagel viserion or drogon? The harp makes the attached character a dragon, so it dosent break the dragons responses, if you have the queen of dragons danny in play the attached character wont kneel to attack. Or you could attach it to an opponents character and then use the trait abilities of daario and jorah from where loyalty lies, or the shadows varys, to discard them. It is VERY scary and powerful with a bit of thought (more so as targ can recycle it quite quickly). Attaching things to your house card, i assume you mean cards like khal drogos tent that would have the option of being a normal location? In this case yes, its just a way to stop them being targeted by abilities that would remove locations, it does make them vulnerable to attachment removal though. cards like the long summer are still considered in play when attached to your house card (as the house card is considered in play itself) and thus can be targeted normally. Hope that helps.

Apologies if that comes across as sounding dismissive/cocksure/something bad; currently at work and dodging the eyes of colleagues to type frantically!

I disagree, the effect that grants the bonus is a plot one so it isnt bothered by rains, it dosent state that its a gold bonus, just that each location is +1 gold to income. I play stark and my regular opponent is lannister and we both agreed that it seemed fine like that, in a similar vein to feast or famine.

ktom said: WWDrakey said: Well, in computational sciences ~Because a computational sciences logic tree always accurately models the application of rules in AGoT…. Sarcasm ktom? i cant quite bring myself to believe it!