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Underworld40k

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Posts posted by Underworld40k

  1. Posted

    Lions gate only has one target which is the non house card you choose. The prerequisit to give it a trait is that there is power on that character (for the then to resolve the previous part must have been completed). 

    As meera is a triggered effect (very important because she is not a character ability when she triggers) she can be canceld by futile gesture as long as the character is the only target (so its not winter) Bewear though that if they have more gold they can just trigger her again as she will just go back to shadows.

    (awaiting the ktom stick to put me in place ;D )

  2. Posted

     

    Hi all, i played a few games last night and while i enjoyed the game several members of my group where unhappy with the risk/reward balance of pushing further into the facility seeing how quickly the proximity dial can be raised, and the uncertainty of what 2nd floor cards you will reveal, to the point of finding the game boring and to predictable even with the random layout each game.

    Has anyone else found this or is there some mechanic we have missed that makes venturing forward acceptable outside of having a rediculous hand of item cards for rapid movement?

  5. Posted

    Your timing is a little off (but not by much), and its in relation to the timing of saves and cancels.

    When valar is resolved all charcters go moribund: Dead, at this moment you can use a save triggered effect which prevents the character going moribund at all. The first player would respond with a save first, then the next player etc. when both players pass consecutively then the save window ends (see the debate on valar and outwit for the only real practical application of choosing not to save that i can think of).

    After this then we get passives and then responses (where icy catapult will come into play). Cards are considered to leave play when they go moribund: anywhere but in play for triggering effects as you summised.

    A quick reread over the faq should help you, it takes most of us a while to get to grips with the precise timing structure, Hope this helps.

  7. Posted

    Indeed he is.

    The only way to take a character out of a challenge is to have an effect that explicitly removes them from it, so if they are killed by something like lethal counter attack they are removed before the challenge resolves, if you can save them then they carry on and the challenge continues.

    The timing can be best explained with a copy of the faq, but it goes like this, after characters are delcared to be attacking (which the game calls a framework action) there is an oppertunity for players to take actions, lethal counter attack can be played here, (the game calls this a player action) then there is another framework action for declaring stealth and defending characters, then another set of player actions (lethal counter attack can be played here as well) and finally the final framework action where the challenge results are worked out and claim dealt, unopposed power and renown are awarded and then passives and responses are done.

    The actions are all resolved before the next step begins, so if your opponent player lethal counter attack it resolves fully before the next action, so your chaarcters that are killed would be removed (And thus out of the challenge)

    (there is more to it then what i have said, im sure others on the board will give a more detailed break down to correct any generalisations ive made).

    Other examples of challenge removal are things like pentoshi manor and toll gate, both effects state that the targeted character is 'removed from the challenge'. 

    Also as its a common set of questions, losing an icon mid challenge does NOt remove you from the challenge, nor does standing the character remove them either, the effect has to say that you are removed (or your killed and thus removed any way)

    Hope this helps.

  8. Posted

    When you have a situation like this with the total is what matters, if you start with 0 icons and have 1 of each removed you still have zero icons, if you add 1 icon to the character, 0-1+1 = 0, just as with strength you can never functioanally have less then 0, but all effects are counted and added each time the total is checked.

  10. Posted

    Vaapad said:

    Obviously he meant that the two PA windows sandwiched between th FA windows are included as well.  Basically, "during a challenge" is the second gray box, the second white box, the third gray box, the third white box, and the fourth gray box.  The challenge begins when the active player declares a challenge and ends at the end of the FA window in which the challenge resolves.  Everything in between is "during" a challenge, and everything outside of that is not.  An event like Lethal Counterattack can be played only in one of the PA windows "during" th challenge -- ie, not in the PA window before a challenge is declared.  By contrast, an event like Incinerate can be played in any PA window in the challenges phase because it contains no other restriction.



    This is what i meant, my apologies for not being clear enough.

  11. Posted

    'During a challenge' constitutes anything in frameworks 2-4 (as they are presented on the flowchart in the faq) in the challenge phase i believe, so from the active player 'declaring challenge type and opponent and the kneeling attacking characters' to the 'Determine winner of challenge, challenge result is  implemented, reward for unopposed , challenge is awarded, renown is awarded' is considered during the challenge.

  12. Posted

    Im not sure what youre getting at, lethal counter attack is a player action, not a response or a passive effect, so it is played during the 2 player action windows well before deadly is counted.

    It cannon be used after a challenge is being resolved in the framework action as its timing window has passed.

    The duration of a challenge is simply from the start of the framework action in which a player declares challenge type and attacking characters to the end of the challenge resoultion framework action window.

    To quote Darth, 'There is no conflict' (what follows aside).

     

  14. Posted

    No use for gief lets you search your deck for any sand sankes and put them into play, the faq and rules tell us that when a unique character is put into play by an effect ,and there is an existing copy in play, it becomes a duplicate. My usual example is catelyn stark from LoW, i can put her into play with her ability and then should some unforseen deadly effect pop in like 'your writ small' i can play another copy with her ability which then attaches as a dupe letting me save cat from the kill effect.

    Because no use for giref reads 'Kneel 3 influence to search for any number of Sand Snake characters and put them into play instead if The Red Viper was just killed' you can search for any number of sandsnakes, including dupes, and then put them into play as one effect, which means they enter with dupes and all.

  17. Posted

    Cloudy57 said:

    Raise hand to ask a question for the first time~

    In the situation that the plot "breaking and entering" is revealed and a "widow's wail" (owned and controlled by the opponent) has already been in play, can I control another "widows wail" which discarded from the opponent's hands as the claim of an Intrigue challenge by the plot effect?

    Breaking and Entering

    "Intrigue Gambit    Any attachment or location card that would be discarded from any player's hand as part of the claim of an int. challenge may be put into play by the winner of the challenge, under his or her control. "



    Pretty sure you can, the rules for unique cards mean that you can not play or take control of any card in your dead pile or already under your control (aside from duplicates obviously). As it is the opponent who has the copy of the unique card in play you break none of those restrictions. I think Joff should probably keep a better eye on his valuable weapons. 

  18. Posted

    Intuitive is a redundant word and concept in almost ALL complex games (of any type) as they are all use abstract rules to some extent. Rules lawyering is part and parcel of these sorts of games, and FFG do an above average job of getting faq's out for a lot of it.

     

    The FAQ should be included in the rules as standard so that more of these issues can be addressed out of the box but i would argue the execution is usually very good (the latest cycle has had a few blunders to be fair though).

     

  19. Posted

     The reason red vengeance is throwing you off is because unlike a a 'normal' response it is a cancel and thus follows a slightly different timing structure. In the faq it gives some flow sheets for timing issues, they can be a little complicated to follow at first but once you get them down its quite simple.

    What happens looks something like this.

    In the framework window for implementing challenge results there are  4 framework events that go in this order,

    1. Determine winner of
    challenge
    2. challenge result is
    implemented
    3. reward for unopposed
    challenge is awarded
    4. renown is awarded

     

    After each framework event starts there is a save/cancel window and then the framework action resolves.

    Red vengeance works in the second framework event , you cancel the challenge result (claim) and the event makes the chosen opponent have to resolve it.

    After step 4, renown being awarded, passives occur, then you have the 'standard' responses like die by the sword/no quarter can be played.

     

  21. Posted

     Its reasonably simple. If you have a copy of a unique card in your dead pile you can play no more copies of that card.

    So lets say you run 3x Jamie lannister, you get a copy out who is unfortunately bludgeoned to death by targeted stark kill effects, he goes to the dead pile. Next turn you draw into another Jamie Lannister. That card is more or less just going to sit in your hand as he cant enter play.

    Cards in the discard pile dont count for this, so if you didnt play the first jamie and he got discarded via an intrigue challenge, the jamie you then draw into could be played. 

    The rule for the dead pile is under unique cards on page 19 

    "You also may not play or take control of a unique card if there is a copy of that card in your dead pile, or if your opponent has taken control of another copy of that unique card from you."


    Hope this helps

     

  22. Posted

    ktom said:

    Once a card is moribund, nothing can make it "un-moribund". You can't "retroactively" make it ineligible for the effect that already killed it. The card must leave play.



    I can think of a couple of exceptions, unless my understanding is way off.

    If i have bungled orders out and lose a military challenge and choose a nobel to die for claim and then swap into 'the power of blood' i believe that the cannot be killed trumps the moribund status, same way that stoic resolve would for knelt characters and timmet surviving valar if he is used to save tyrion (lotr version).

    Is this not the case?
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