Underworld40k
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Posts posted by Underworld40k
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Got to say, the usual snowball Descent arguments are running through, if not directly popping up, in this to me.
Conditions are a very conditional (aha!) part of the game but undeniably powerful. The overlord has reliable access to them via open groups (which can let you virtually guarantee that you can get one that you want) or overlord class cards, but heroes can arguably benefit from them more because pinning that must kill monster (quest related lieutenant or something that must not do something this turn) is a game winner, while immobilizing 1 hero dosent stop the other 3.
Overlord cards are obviously game winners but they are random, im sure every overlord here has had at least one game crying out for a frenzy or dash to be here, in my hand, right !"£$ing now, and a few classes or characters can hard counter them through ability or feat (dangers sense and elder Mok say hi off the top of my head).
Quest are swingy by nature in this game, the hero/class/monster/item combinations, while not infinite, might as well be for practical purposes. A while back my group played back to back shadow rune campaigns and the interlude was like 2 different quests - first time around heroes cake walked it against an experienced overlord, 2nd time around got curb stomped by the relatively new OL player.
Obviously group plans tend to solidify over time, and players usually become accustomed to a style of play or role, you said you rotated out with another overlord player but what would happen if a third player took up OL duties?
Do they make vastly different choices for open groups? Do they ALWAYS pick web trap (I never leave my evil lair without it, even if the heroes are well attributed to pass it). Do they look at the last campaign and build a strategy that might have been good in the last setting but is now not useful against the current hero group?
What happens when the regular healer player is asked to play a scout? Do they look to play the same or do they try and adapt to a new role, and if so does the **** impact their decisions in regards not only to play but skill purchase and equipment picks? (does the last campaign of being web trapped every.single.encounter, drive them to counter immobilize when i am no longer actively using it?)
And al of this before any player skill is brought into question. (inaccurate rules implementation that costs quests aside, that could have an epic stanza for itself)
The game can snowball immensity, i think everyone on these boards has seen it - but wishing that the quests where 'balanced' is a pipe dream, the variables are simply to many to extrapolate before it get lost in tedium.
For the most part my games have had balanced games and wildly swingy quests. And even then the group loves it al the same. Acceptance that some quests are likely to be un-winnable only makes that unexpected success all the sweeter. -
2 heroes is widely acknowledged as being the hardest balance for heroes to deal with.
hmm... oh so that is why I was constantly loosing a 2 heroes game to a newbie overlord...
I really do like Descent, but introducing a mayor rule change 4 years after release smells like something is seriously wrong with this game.
Its hard to say whats causes people to lose in descent - there are so many variables including number of players, class choice, hero choice etc, before you even get to the respective skill of the individual players.
Simple maths however determines that fewer heroes struggle due simply to action economy.
2 heroes have 4 actions a hero round (abilities/feats/skills not withstanding). Looking at the original Shadow rune intro quest a the overlord would have 1 ettin and 3 goblin archers, 8 actions in his turn.
Now consider that each attack has a 1/6 (or thereabouts chance to miss) which essentially wastes an entire action which hurts a LOT more when you only have a 4 a turn.
Then consider that without a healer the heroes have very few ways to recover damage so if 1 of your 2 heroes isn't fixing you up your going to end up getting knocked down a lot (which wastes an entire turn if your partner cant pick you up.)
The game is essentially balanced and built around 4 heroes, the 3 player variant is usually in the heroes favor - for similar reasons - and the faq amendments address the biggest issue 2 hero games had quite well, the free regular attack or 2 heart recovery lets the heroes do more but not spam more powerful abilities.
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The rule was introduced with Heirs of blood for balance issues. 2 heroes is widely acknowledged as being the hardest balance for heroes to deal with.
Action economy is a premium in descent and 2 heroes usually struggle to actually get stuff done. -
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Fortunately, HoB is not that much of a race as SR. Both Archive of Arrizon and the upcoming Caladen's Crossing 2nd Encounters are by no means races. And yes, having Jain and Syndrael means you're doing great in mobility dept.
Defend largely finds itself consigned to my 2nd rate or lower picks - its not bad per say but shield slam is obscenely powerful (again, action denial is super good) and i loath to pass it up.I'll disagree with that. Unless you're fighting a very specific monster (e.g., elemental or lieutenant) who can do a second valuable action while already in contact with you, it is useless. And a if you have your starting weapon (which is our case), you're are pretty short on surges - and I'd rather use it to recover a fatigue/health. I find that defense training would be a great combo with the Defense and Chainmail: Brown + Gray + Gray + guaranteed Shield. And it also combos very nicely with Leoric's ability.
You dont find stunning mobile monsters or large blocking monsters to be valuable? Descent has such a huge section of the game revolve around mobility and action use that i have always been able to find a use for it.
Yeah, monsters only get one attack on a regular turn but you can move in, stun and move away, if it is a melee monster now it has to move, if its a range monster it can attack but cant get away.
Or you can move in stun an enemy and keep it form moving twice, in a hunt a lieutenant (or specific monster) quest thats pretty dam,n sweet.
BH i have found it to have much more mileage then defend - although suppose it depends on how squishy the rest of the team is/how much healing you can pump put.
But thats the beauty of descent, hero, class, skill and weapon combinations are always very fluid.
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Advance will shine the more you use it and get used to when to time it, between oath of honor and advance you can move 7+spaces for free (assuming a speed 4 character) and get 3 attack actions.
There isnt much in the game that offers that level of action economy and in a game that is largely about action economy that is huge.
Defend largely finds itself consigned to my 2nd rate or lower picks - its not bad per say but shield slam is obscenely powerful (again, action denial is super good) and i loath to pass it up.
The defensive style is good for some quests but in my experience anything where moving is a priority it starts to fall apart quite quickly because its just not fast enough to keep pace. (Admittedly Syndraels feat offsets this wonderfully. ) -
Cheers for the info folks.
What are these rumour cards ?
So basically any monster from any expansion whether it be from big box expansions , small box expansions or monster and hero expansions your able to use in both the base campaigns as long as the open monster group traits matches ?
I plan to crush my mate and want a good selection of these deadly demons hahahahahaha
I shall do a bit of research and see what trait gets used the most in both the campaigns.
Rumor cards are a concept originally introduced in the small box expansions - they let the overlord choose to add extra quests to a campaign to integrate the smaller campaign quests into a big box campaign. The hero and monster packs provide an additional quest via the rumor mechanic as well. They are optional and for your first campaign or two i would personally recommend that they be left alone, if both parties are not fully up on the game they can really swing a campaign balance around.
I think your out of luck at the moment for Treaty of Champions at the moment. I always use boardgameprices for atock checks
Thank you for the website name though, not one ive used before but useful for the data.
Rumor cards are extra 'events' the overlord can play. Most of these feature extra quests. (the H&M packs only have quests, some small box expansions have others)
These quests can be played during a full campaign (Shadow Rune, LoR, SoN, HoB) as extra quests on top of the normal available quests.
A bit of research can be used to go over the campaign you are planning to play and the monsters that come in a pack to see how often they will be available. (Not that i have but im sure someone probably has done).
Work in progress info from my campaign tracker (monsters with matching traits can be found here - http://d2etracker.com/stats_monsters.php)
This a sum of all traits (per encounter) of every quest, per expansion:
The Shadow Rune
17 x cave
14 x dark
13 x cursed
13 x mountain
10 x wilderness
10 x civilized
9 x building
5 x water
5 x cold
5 x hot
4 x all
Lair of the Wyrm
4 x civilized
4 x building
4 x wilderness
3 x hot
2 x mountain
2 x cave
1 x cursed
Labyrinth of Ruin
14 x building
12 x wilderness
11 x mountain
11 x cursed
9 x water
7 x hot
6 x civilized
5 x cave
4 x dark
3 x cold
The Trollfens
4 x water
3 x wilderness
3 x dark
2 x building
2 x cursed
1 x cave
1 x cold
1 x civilized
Shadow of Nerekhall
17 x hot
16 x cursed
11 x civilized
10 x building
7 x water
7 x cave
7 x dark
5 x wilderness
1 x mountain
1 x cold
Manor of Ravens
6 x cursed
6 x building
2 x water
2 x wilderness
1 x dark
1 x cave
1 x civilized
Crusade of the Forgotten
2 x mountain
1 x cave
1 x hot
Oath of the Outcast
1 x cursed
1 x cave
1 x mountain
1 x wilderness
Crown of Destiny
2 x mountain
1 x cave
1 x hot
Guardians of Deephall
2 x cursed
1 x cave
1 x civilized
Heirs of Blood
20 x building
16 x cursed
12 x wilderness
11 x cave
9 x dark
7 x mountain
6 x hot
5 x civilized
4 x water
3 x all
2 x cold
Visions of Dawn
2 x wilderness
2 x mountain
Bonds of the Wild
2 x cursed
1 x building
1 x dark
1 x hot
1 x cave
Mists of Bilehall
5 x wilderness
4 x cursed
3 x cave
2 x water
2 x mountain
2 x civilized
1 x hot
1 x cold
1 x building
Treaty of Champions
2 x cursed
2 x building
1 x dark
1 x cave
1 x water
1 x wilderness
Atom, you are a gentleman and a scholar sir. Excellent data provision.
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As the others have mentioned the monsters can be put into any campaign via open groups. However the only quests where they will be a default monster group are the 2 rumor quests that come in the pack.
A bit of research can be used to go over the campaign you are planning to play and the monsters that come in a pack to see how often they will be available. (Not that i have but im sure someone probably has done).
On a different note, are there any European, specifically UK, players who have been able to get a hold of treaty of champions? All my usual regular and reliable stockists have not seen the product. Best i have found is an Amazon seller going for £40+ which is bonkers. -
We all know of course that it is just bad mojo to be superstitious about anything ...
Tell that to our skirmisher who once missed on 7 out of 12 rolls in a single encounter! (It was at that point I did an analysis of the weight of each face of the blue die based on the volume carved out of each side to determine if it was naturally loaded.)
What was the scientific result of this research? I am generally curious as some of my players have muttered about this over a few games.
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Pincer move is best option.
2 heroes back track to the fire pit (via caravan) 2 heroes push to the ruins and kill goblins and block barghests from running in circles.
Send avric and either Loeric or Jain hunting and have Syndarel be primary camper with the other supporting.
Its a OL favored quest, and a heavily favored one one at that, but it looks winnable for the heroes. The reverse of first blood really (but at least the heroes have a possible chance, unlike first blood where the OL is doomed).
Would love to hear other peoples experiences. -
Best strategy i can see at a glance is for heroes to rush Goblins and eliminate them (with that party composition it should be possible - terrible rolls aside), The goblins re-spawn end of round so will in most instances sit there getting mulched without ever doing anything if heroes are present.
First hero Turn Syndarel pops feat and use it with Loeric. Depending on goblin placement may be able to stamina move up and attack twice or may have to move+stamina attack once. Leoric, then stamina move and attack twice if range is good or move and stamina and attack once. Then Jain pops feat and scoots up and attacks twice (once from feat) Avric is carrying acolyte as he has no range weapon and wont be killing goblins.
Alternatively send Jain Fist with feat, then use Syndarel and see if you can position jain to abuse oath of honour to pop syndarel up.
Optimistically and depending on placement of goblins they may all be dead or severely depleted. If all dead press heroes on to deal with barghasts and spawning goblins, if not send appropriate hero to back up avric in wiping out remaining goblins then get back to business of killing spawns.
You will just have to deal with barghast attacking or running away as it comes up - the priority here are goblins for me, keep them under control and you can keep the barghasts running or wear them down.Alternatively you could play cagey and let the OL advance goblins to the camp site, yeah, he gets 1 stamina token at the end of his turn but if there are 4 heroes all the goblins should die quickly and then he is in the same boat of spawning 2 at the end of turn.
Either way make goblins die fast then kill re spawns fast
Unlike first blood in shadow rune though the OL gets a very realistic chance at this as the heroes have to be focused on pulping all goblins, even 1 or 2 getting by will cripple them quickly, but if the initial 5 are overwhelmed quickly the heroes can be reasonably happy to camp the lair and hunt down dead dogs at their leisure.
This should be the next campaign i play so i will let you know how i fare - although i imagine we will be using different heroes and classes.
SpawnGarret and twincast reacted to this -
They are a little larger but the detail is superb. After a few disappointing lieutenant and hero sculpts i would be happy with slightly larger but better detailed figs.
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As a quick heads up seeing as the reinforcement issue was what was causing this, most quests in Descent allow only 1 monster to be reinforced from a group (a scenario might say, at start/end of turn reinforce 1 goblin and 1 open group monster).
The scenario will always tell you which groups are allowed to reinforce and to what extent. Also look out for WHEN they reinforce, getting a monster at the stat of the OL turn and having it activate is a huge difference to it reinforcing at the end of the turn and being forced to wait a a turn to activate it.
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Movement is a bit weird at the start of the descent learning process.
Technically a move action does not actually make you move but gives you a pool of movement points equal to your speed.This could be supplemented by then using stamina to add movement points or taking a second move action to add more movement points (bear in mind this can be done over the course of the turn).
If terrain is impeding movement, like with a water space, then each space costs 2 points of movement to enter, if you only have 1 point you cannot pay the cost and cannot move into the water space.
But as mentioned you can augment your movement pool (take a move action to get 5MP, then use 1 stamina for 1MP = 6MP or 3 water spaces. OR double move to have 10MP = 5 water spaces.
Unfortunately I cant advise on the scenario as i dont have it in front of me.
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Kinda agree with Charmy, Jonas is a bit 'meh' - not bad per say but underwhelming compared to others. Mostly because the heroic ability is reliant on to many variables for my taste (friends have to be within 3, have to not preform an attack, have to be i a position where not attacking wont cost you time/the game) and Jonas has average move and stamina so he is not exactly a speedster of re-positioning or a stamina freak to spam abilities which i feel the spirit speaker needs. Maybe if it added 2 shields so you could really look to tank some damage i might be a little more enthusiastic.
The heroic feat however is a a huge boost for dealing with hordes, and is far more useful as Jonas gets to chose to do it once in position so the OL has to either run risks with mobbing up or disperse which will probably let heroes maneuver much more easily. And it is still pretty good with large minions whos high attack rolls could really hurt themselves. (quick query, i assume that Jonas player would get to spend any surges the monster has access to with this attack which could be pretty **** beastly)
On paper i think he is a 6 out of 10.
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Hello, and welcome to the forums.
Unfortunately in regards to your question - Nope,
Nothing in the base rules allows this - you have 2 actions total and may trade stamina for movement points (this does not cost an action).
Some skills, cards or items may allow you to gain an extra action but not as you have described. -
A bad wizard did it will suffice for pretty much most issues.
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Reinforcements are determined by encounter so always check what is allowed. There is no set in stone rule for what can be reinforced.
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Thanks for the quick response, thats how i ruled it based on what i could find quickly.
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Quick questions on controlling objectives that are bunched together.
Can 1 figure control multiple objectives at a single time?
I was dabbling with the base game skirmish mission A (Get to the ship) and couldn't spot anything that said i could not do so although that seemed a little easy to score high very quickly, and usually in this style of game 1 figure can only control 1 objective.
Thanks for any clarification. -
Been playing this today and the simplest solution i could ocme up with was to discount Desmond from the count.
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Grey, so grey grey in act 2
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Upon further inspection: Two Minions and one Master. If they are all within 5 spaces of a Koed hero, he needs to roll FIVE hearts to even stand up. These things are not going anywhere near group campaigns because that is WAY too OP. So what if they roll a Blue and Yellow, there are enough enhancement effects in this game to change that. They also have 7/9 HP and use a black defense die. I can see situations where these things are just standing around, locking the hero side down because nobody can actually stand up and the OL just does his merry business.
No thank you.
Crow hags have inspired an important rule question that will affect their balance significantly. Namely, I do not know if their ability will affect standup, because their ability is not a health recovering one, so it may not b able to target hero tokens. Just a thought. The same reasoning applies to the punisher's trading pains. I'll post an answer when i get it.
I dont think it will affect knocked out heroes, heroes have to be within 5 spaces for lifeleech to occur, tokens are not heroes so no issue there. The stand up rules clearly state roll for recovery then place hero (so hero will be there with health already recovered.)
I still think that the ability is nuts and well worth having and dosent diminish the options in any real way, recovered heroes are incredibly squishy and making it harder to get them back to survivable levels is still great.
It just means they are not broken out of the box.
If it DOES work on KO'ed heroes they are just evil.
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I was just wondering, does Ronan's heroic feat "... Choose 1 other Hero. You and that hero may immediately trade any Shop item cards, Relic cards and Search cards." override Immunity Elixir's (Trollfens relic) 'This card cannot be traded between heroes'?
I would say no, i believe the word 'any' here is being used in the quantitative value (so if ronan had a potion, a relic and a shop item he could swap them all) and nothing in his ability stipulates that it overrides existing rules printed on the traded cards.
If it was supposed to do that i would think it would have something like, regardless of shop, item or search card rules, added to the ability.
But it might be worth a quick FAQ via FFG.
Troll minion backswing
in Descent: Journeys in the Dark
Posted · Edited by Underworld40k
Backswing: Use immediately after performing an attack to chose any number of figures affected by that attack. Each of those figures tests Awareness. If none of the figure pass, each chosen figure suffers 2 Heart and is Stunned.
Regular minion Troll has no ability to attack more then 1 figure (overlord cards or other such interactions aside), ability text is clear, only heroes affected can then be targeted by backswing.
You are correct
That said, if another interaction allowed the troll to target multiple heroes with its attack, backswing would be applicable.