Saigneur2
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Posts posted by Saigneur2
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I read somewhere that these guys have ceramite in their diet to reinforce their bone structure, they have 2 hearts, 3 lungs, 2 stomachs, 2 times more muscles than a normal human... So who knows if it's possible or not. Anyway that's my explanation of the rules and nothing says it's not so. I didn't make it to convince people, I made it for my own game and shared it here so that people take in it what they want. I respect everyone's view on this matter but, even if Orks grow it doesn't mean Marines should not, even if you say it's not possible I still can't think of any other explanation...
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Captain Ventris said:
They don't. They become a seven foot Space Marine in an 8 foot suit of armor which has massive foot pads. The thing's got fiber bundles, I seriously doubt you'd actually need to be as big as the armor is for it to transfer your movements.
You must not have given much though to why I made this rule but... Ok then how tall is your "seven foot Space Marine" naked ? 6 feet ? I can't think he's less than 2 meters tall... And because the Mk VII armour weights 180 kg and the Terminator armour 400 kg, the rulebook implies than the Space Marine's own weight (just without armour) varies between 320 and 600 kg...
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Captain Ventris said:
A marine's head is not at the top of his terminator armor, the armor goes above his head.
I know, that why I wrote that a helmet adds 2,5 cm from it's thickness and another 2,5 cm from it's little crest... But if you mean that other parts of the armor tops that, I'm afraid I need to underline that anyone's size is meant from head to toe.
Captain Ventris said:
Also, artwork in general tends to show the most heroic figures as being physically larger. It's symbolic. I'm pretty darn sure there have been numerous discussions about the 40k art here.
Then I think our games should follow this artwork's symbolicness... You're free to play that Space Marine's don't really look like what the artwork shows if you want but I won't follow you there...
Captain Ventris said:
And really, the Deathwatch rulebooks, codices, etc. go into SUCH great detail about a Space Marine's every abnormality... you'd think they'd list something as outlandish as growing in proportion to their success on the battlefield.
Yet "SUCH great detail" don't explain how a Space Marine, that is a bit more than 7 feet in size, becomes an 8 feet Terminator... That's why we try to answer such questions here...
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Armour size is not a conforting answer... Because there's 1 foot difference between the two ! Mk VII armour adding nothing to size while Terminator armour adds 1 foot is not logic to me. You can always say that Mk VII adds 1 foot while Terminator armour adds 2 for example but, besides being illogical compared to pictures, that'd mean a naked Space Marine is roughly 6 feet tall... So the most satisfying explanation is still growth to me.
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Nerdynick said:
What in the Emperor's name.........
Okay, I honestly see NO way a Space Marine will grow like an ork. Nothing in the fluff supports this. Nothing in *common sense* supports this.
I'm not the only one to think Space Marines grow (click on this picture to go to the web page from where it comes) :
And my Space Marines WILL grow because my common sense tells me it's so far the best way to explain that ANY Space Marine can become someday an 8 feet Terminator... Besides it making Hero Space Marines taller than others, wich is in the spirit of 40k's epic setting in my opinion.
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Control said:
Well if only 10cm is added, then every model and piece of artwork from both GW and FF is poorly done and scaled incorrectly. They should probably get on top of that.
I scaled with a ruler quite a few pictures to come to this conclusion. It's so also for the sake of simplicity you're right but it matches everything perfectly... Besides, the "one inch helmet thickness rule" is canon...
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LockLock said:
I smell orky heresy in the air....
Prove me wrong with the Codex-Rulebook or find a better idea if you can...
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Control said:
I believe the change in height is due to the fact that the armor is thicker and heavier and all that.
Yeah, a Mk VII armour has soles of 5 cm, it's helmet is one inch thick (2,5 cm) and above that on this helmet there's a crest giving 2,5 cm more... The total is +10 cm to a Space Marine's Height comparing to when he's naked.
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boruta666 said:
And if u losse some renown u will shrink ?
No but you would not continue to grow up until you get your renown at a higher level than before... Easy to keep track of that with this chart... And, by the way, notice that you stop growing at 60 points of Renown or more too.
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Even before I told any of my players, here it is !
1. According to the rulebook, page 28 : a Space Marine wearing his armour only (no other gear) is a bit more than 2,10 m (7 feet) high and weights between 500 and 1000 kg.
2. Space Marines are commonly seen 7 feet high and Terminators, 8 feet high.
3. According to the rulebook, page 271 : to have access to a Terminator armour, you must have at least 60 points of Renown.
So for me, the height and weight of a Space Marine is determined by the number of Renown points he has. Wich can make sense if you consider heroes to be greater (taller) than others. So here is my chart folowing this idea (wich perfectly matches the rules !)
Renown (+3 points each line) Height (+1 cm each line) Weight (+14 kg each line)
------------ 0, 1, 2 ----------------------------------- 2, 01 meters -------------------------- 320 kg -----------
------------ 3, 4, 5 ----------------------------------- 2, 02 meters -------------------------- 334 kg -----------
------------ 6, 7, 8 ----------------------------------- 2, 03 meters -------------------------- 348 kg -----------
---------- 9, 10, 11 --------------------------------- 2, 04 meters -------------------------- 362 kg -----------
--------- 12, 13, 14 --------------------------------- 2, 05 meters -------------------------- 376 kg -----------
--------- 15, 16, 17 --------------------------------- 2, 06 meters -------------------------- 390 kg -----------
--------- 18, 19, 20 --------------------------------- 2, 07 meters -------------------------- 404 kg -----------
--------- 21, 22, 23 --------------------------------- 2, 08 meters -------------------------- 418 kg -----------
--------- 24, 25, 26 --------------------------------- 2, 09 meters -------------------------- 432 kg -----------
--------- 27, 28, 29 --------------------------------- 2, 10 meters -------------------------- 446 kg -----------
--------- 30, 31, 32 --------------------------------- 2, 11 meters -------------------------- 460 kg -----------
--------- 33, 34, 35 --------------------------------- 2, 12 meters -------------------------- 474 kg -----------
--------- 36, 37, 38 --------------------------------- 2, 13 meters -------------------------- 488 kg -----------
--------- 39, 40, 41 --------------------------------- 2, 14 meters -------------------------- 502 kg -----------
--------- 42, 43, 44 --------------------------------- 2, 15 meters -------------------------- 516 kg -----------
--------- 45, 46, 47 --------------------------------- 2, 16 meters -------------------------- 530 kg -----------
--------- 48, 49, 50 --------------------------------- 2, 17 meters -------------------------- 544 kg -----------
--------- 51, 52, 53 --------------------------------- 2, 18 meters -------------------------- 558 kg -----------
--------- 54, 55, 56 --------------------------------- 2, 19 meters -------------------------- 572 kg -----------
--------- 57, 58, 59 --------------------------------- 2, 20 meters -------------------------- 586 kg -----------
-------------- 60+ ------------------------------------ 2, 21 meters -------------------------- 600 kg -----------1. I figured out that a Mk VII armour adds 10 cm to Height : 5 cm sole + 5 cm helmet up it's crest (1 inch crest + 1 inch helmet thickness)
2. A Mk VII armour adds 180 kg to Weight (from Varthion's Helm : 18 kg helmet + 162 kg for the rest of the armour)
3. I figured out that a Terminator armor adds 20 cm to Height : 10 cm sole + 10 cm helmet
4. A Terminator armour adds 400 kg to Weight (from Apothecary's Helm : 30 kg helmet + 370 kg for the rest of the armour)
*** From that chart you can see that a beginning Space Marine in Mk VII armour is 2,11 meters high (a bit more than 7 feet) and weights 500 kg...
*** Same for a Terminator (60 points of renown) : 2, 41 meters (a bit more than 8 feet) and 1000 kg.
*** And you can see that a naked Terminator is bigger (2, 21 meters for 600 kg) than a beginning Space Marine in Mk VII armour (2, 11 meters for 500 kg).
Enjoy !
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Hello, I made the folowing Character Creation process from what used to do my old Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Game Master. Here it is :
1. The player rolls his 9 characteristics (Combat Skill, Balistic Skill, Strength an so on) relating each roll of 2d10+30 to the characteristics in order (he doesn't choose where to put each roll).
2. Look at the player's rolls and count how many he has at 36 or below. Substract from this number the total of his rolls at 46 or above. If the result is positive, that player gets that number of re-rolls +1 (the one mentioned in the rules). If the result is negative then he gets only that re-roll. But it is not advisable he uses that or those re-rolls at this point.
3. The player gets to switch 1 characteristic with another (real example : creating an Assault Marine my player rolled a 39 for Combat Skill so he decided to switch it with his Fellowhip roll of 50. So his character now has a Fellowship of 39 and a Combat Skill of 50, wich will probably be of more use to his Assault Marine.)
4. The player rolls for his Wounds, Fate Points, Armor History and so on... Now finished rolling, he can apply his re-roll(s) to any roll he's not happy with BUT, I tell him that if he does, his last roll will be definitive ! (Other real example : my other player rolled a 37 for his Librarian's Perception score. He decided to re-roll it but then got a 36... He cannot cancel his re-roll so his character's Perception is now 36.)
I do it that way because :
1. When a player decides to create a character he usually goes like "I want a Devastator Marine !" (for example) And if he rolls a low Balistic Skill score for his Devastator Marine, he'd rightfully feel bad... (And yeah, that can even happen twice with a re-roll.)
2. When rolling characters, it is possible that some players be lucky and some others be unlucky and it's best to correct that so that everyone be satisfied with his character... And I don't like the point system because it let's anyone having maxed out characteristics... So everyone would go for high Balistic Skill and low Fellowship for example and that doesn't make characters look "normal".
3. The above system worked great so far...
Now, my players want to know how tall and heavy are their Marines with and without gear... And I was surprised not to find any suggestion about this on this forum so, I'll be working on it... Bye for now
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Right, thanks ! And comparing my previous picture to the folowing (from your link) I notice a Librarian's helm is composed of 2 parts : the one shown inside the psychic hood on the first picture and a face mask containing senses, breathing, vox, etc. (you can see on the folowing picture from the top of his head and the cable near his ears) Cool, that answers my questions
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Yes, I thought about that : since they can send an astrotelepathic message from within a ship they must be able wearing a helmet too, BUT... The question remains about psychic hoods : Do they offfer the same protection as a helmet ? Do they offer senses and breathing apparatus like a regular helmet ? Are they airtight so as to support for example, the vacum of space ?
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Hello people, I've not been able to find the answers to the folowing questions in the core-rule-book so here it is :
I think Librarian's are usually pictured without helm because it looks cool but... That makes me wonder if a Librarian could use his psychic powers wearing a helmet... I guess not but then, does it means Librarians can't benefit of protection to the head ? Does it mean they don't have the benefits of what Space Marine's helmet gives such as senses and so on ? Does it mean that Librarian's armors are not tight as to support the vacum of space ? etc. And if a Librarian Marine is wearing a psychic head gear, he can't wear a helmet right ?
I made this short on purpose because I guess you understand all the questions that this raises... Thanks in advance for your answers.
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Ear-of-Terror said:
9 out of 10 translations are horrible and embarass you just by reading them. AND the FFG stuff is so well written in general.
I believe you but still, I rather have it in french because most players like to understand their character sheet...
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Read my signature. This topic is heresy.
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Redemption NL said:
That's because Final Sanction uses simplified versions of the rules. The full rulebook does state that you need to be aware of the attack to be able to dodge it. The 60 round clips for the Heavy Bolter is actually without a backpack, which has a clipsize of 250.
As far as how exactly a Deatchwatch access code looks like: does it really matter? Just make up something silly like Delta Whisky Bravo 23 Alpha.
Edit: And as far as Marines standing side by side withinstanding fire, look up the Soak Fire defensive pattern.
*shuffling through the french rulebook*
- You're right concerning the dodge rule... I guess I need to study more
- Actually the french rulebook say the backpack allows to fire 250 times. So, since the heavy bolter can only function on full auto fire spending 10 rounds each time, to me it means the backpack holds 2500 rounds. Thanks for that headsup
- As for that Deathwatch code, I was thinking of ruling it as a crypted vox transmission the armor would be doing... as I thought Deathwatch marines vox transmissions would be normally crypted by their armors so as to not be intercepted and heard by people that should not. But, I think the corebook also says an astropath needs to link with the one supposed to receive the message. So that means she needs to know who and where to locate that receiver too... And I'm still thinking about that detail but maybe I won't precise that as I don't think this introductory scenario will be part of my campaign but just for warmup and get a little more experience points : that Avalos world is not mentioned on the starmap and the forces there are so strong, I think the marines will die soon... Talking about that, how many times an apothecary can heal someone ? With sufficient time, can he bring a marine full back up or will he keep some lost wounds ? Can that apothecary heal himself ? Not the shots he received on his back I guess...Anyway, thanks... I almost read the full corebook now but I think I need to read it over and over again... hard to remember everything and oh, I think I'll definitely houserule that all scores are rounded down because I hate when the rulebook say "this is rounded up" and "this is rounded down"...
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H.B.M.C. said:
Saigneur said:
...for example : the game let's you dodge weapon fire but, in the movie Ultramarines can you see Astartes rock and rolling all time to dodge fire ? Just once when Severus and Verenor drop under that land speeder... Most of the time they don't move at all when firing so I think this rule has to be modified. How many times do you see marines reloading in that movie ? Not once !
I've read and re-read this paragraph four times and I still don't know what you're talking about. What is your exact issue with the Dodge Skill/Reaction rules?And the Marines didn't reload because it was a movie. Deathwatch isn't a movie.
BYE
Well, for instance, the rules don't say that a player character can ONLY dodge attacks he is aware of. So, basing himself on the rules, a player can argue he CAN try to dodge sniper fire even if common sense tells otherwise... Second, in this movie, all other games games, etc. Many times marines are seen side by side withstanding fire in battles, not rockin' and rollin' dodging like if they were dancing... So, I say the dodge rule should be more precisely defined.
I think some clips hold too little amunition too, especially those like the heavy bolter : have you seen the size of the backpack they need, and it contains only 60 rounds !?... In a single session, players can use so many clips of ammo that in the end you wonder : but how do they carry around so many clips/reloads ? Like this heavy bolter : with full ammo he can fire 6 times, then needs to reload... But he needs to be able to fire a lot more so how does he carry around like 10 other chains of ammo, when his huge backpack/clip can hold just one ? Does he needs someone to reload his backpack because it's on his back or can he do it alone. How ? Have you ever tried like picking your backpack pocket while wearing a full plate armor ?...
Actually I have started my campaign with Final Sanction, so with the basic rules while I'm studying the full game rules... And my problem is that, just from reading, I come up with many questions that remain unanswered... You want another one ? Ok : How does Deathwatch access codes look like ? How do you give them to an astropath so that she sends your message ? Is this process using machinery, connection with the marine armor or is it just verbal ? Etc. etc...
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Dam this forum software
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Ok, I've gone through the french version of the Deathwatch core rulebook and there are parts really well translated and others, not so good... Anyway I don't think the french version is responsible for everything, for example : the game let's you dodge weapon fire but, in the movie Ultramarines can you see Astartes rock and rolling all time to dodge fire ? Just once when Severus and Verenor drop under that land speeder... Most of the time they don't move at all when firing so I think this rule has to be modified. How many times do you see marines reloading in that movie ? Not once !
I'm not going to talk about everything I noticed but the high jump rule is also nonsense when it let's you jump more than 5 meters high in the air with a run start. Notice also the big differences in the jumping rules between high and long jumps if you have a run start or not : without a run start a marine cannot jump high but he can jump almost as far as if he had run !
Anyway, I'm wondering how many of you use house rules because I think I'll have to remake a good part of the rules even though I admit they're a good base to work on. Some good ideas there too...
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If you're french Linux, you can download for free "l'Ultime Sanction" here : www.bibliothequeinterdite.fr/dw/images/stories/pdf/ultime_sanction.pdf
(it contains basic rules of Deathwatch) -
Still, it could be done : imagine a scenario where rogue traders are hired to bring a deathwatch squad, an inquisitor and his retinue somewhere... And after a warp jump they notice some chaotic infestation on board... Will the crew manage to expell it off the ship ? Will the inquisitor find out how to exterminate it ? Will the deathsquad take up the job ?... It's a fairly rough idea I know but it could be playable same time on different tables and what one team does could affect the others OR, just be playable from any side, pretending the others did this or that. Got the point ?
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Deathwatch is a Space Marine Chapter ! Imagine the risks a leader would take by challenging this standard for a Battle Sister !
I like it ! Where are the rules concerning them to be found please ? -
Hello again, this is just to let people know that "l'Ultime Sanction" has been partly corrected and that it's available for download, along with a few others things, here : www.bibliothequeinterdite.fr/dw/
Space Marine Height and Weight
in Deathwatch House Rules
Posted
As Space Marines are often seen same size on pictures, the movie "Ultramarine" and so on... The only other option I see is decreting that all are 2, 20 meters naked (if 2, 30 meters with Mk VII armour could be seen as "a bit more than 2, 10 meters") and weighting all 320 kg without armour, because then they would still weight "between 500 kg and 1000 kg" (500 with Mk VII armour and 720 with Terminator)... I don't like it much but it's an option. Because if what they say in the rulebook about size is wrong then, what is not you know...