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Tranenturm

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  1. Good luck on the tourney and I'll read through the report.
  2. No trick questions from me btw. Setting up a common framework
  3. Cool little interlude. Okay. Let's start with the peel (just got to start somewhere). I think we both have some unstated assumptions that are different and confusing things. Please pick a sample engagement. You mentioned a VSD carrier so let's go with that. Boosted comms. Rhymer and what else? What enemy do you want to discuss first, a no ship list or squadron force and what relevant composition? What's your approach strategy? What do you do vs likely enemy counter actions?
  4. Yes Tie Bombers can move speed 4 away from Xwings. But without Rhymer it questionable that they would attack a ship and avoid the Xwings/YT/AWing, or escape Point Defense. Not only this but to practiclly get into bombing Range for a Squadron Command with Generics you are either required to i) move into bombing range in the squadron phase ii) wait from a ship to drift into you. Both of these are clearly frought with extra danger (and bad timing) that going without the extra range buffer Rhymer provides. So you're not spending Squadron Commands on generic Tie Bombers in your turn? How the **** do you plan to fight anything? Wait for something to drift into you every turn and attack in squadron phase with Generics? Great plan! You seem to be under the impression that Rhymer entirely removes the need for squadron commands. This is clearly written from the perspective of i) someone who is salty about Rhymer and assumes he makes the game easy ii) no flight time with Rhymer "Just fine". So an allowence of up to the full length of Medium compared to Range 1 is according to you a "just fine" call. Your judgement is clearly poor. That or coloured by a strong desire to be a polemicist. Then in your "just fine" world your Carrier has to be a full Medium Length closer to danger to Command the bombers to fall back. Therefore putting everything in more danger but nah it's "just fine". Questions: Did you come to your assessment of "just fine" based on any experience or form of play testing? Or are you just saying things for the sake of argument? Have you honestly even ever performed a "peel"? You're right. You never said Mauler, Howl and Dengar are more effective. I case you missed it you said, "However, your bombers can be effective without Rhymer. Used properly, they can be MORE effective" No strawman here. I'm just quoting you. Maybe that's why you think something doesn't make sense. This is bull. You can't drift between talking about efficiency (in this case an objective numerical assessment) and individual skill. You're also begging the question, that a unit in of itself actually encourages poor play. Basic Squadron Commands are "intensive" now? Or is it intensive because I retreat? So i should sit there and cop flak? Question: Do you think squadron commands are bad? Appeal to emotion? Seriously? No you can't. Many are not fast enough, some barely. And you put yourself closer to other threats. Rhymer straight up blanks it by adding an additional medium length messure. You are aware that the Range Rhymer provies is the same length as a Blue Point Defense yes? Meaning with Rhymer you are only required to move each squadron a little bit more than it's own base out of range. In fact if you are doing it propelly with a VSD you put 3 Bombers just in Range and leave Rhymer (because his ability is Range 1). This way the VSD can Squadron Command 3 (with Boosted Comms of course), pull them back out of PD range, now the enemy ship is only required to be moving speed 1 to allow Rhymer to shoot in the Squadron phase. You might do this is you want to use Wulf to cut speed down so you can keep the Nav Token for later. Next turn you can spend the Squadron token for 4 Squadron so you can pull Rhymer and the 3 Bombers back further. This is what actual experience looks like. First off i) Rymer balls don't need an Intel ship. There is no golden rule that says so. ii) Despite this cutting Rhymer doesn't mean the need for Intel dissapears (but there is still no "must/golden rule"). This is clearly your assumption, that Rhymer i) needs Intel ii) non Rhymer doesn't. Do Rebels run Jan? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. There is no rule. Being able to move when "engaged" is still useful in of itself. You're assuming this is somehow not the case. Which again. My "appeal to emotion" in your words was an appeal to humor which clearly missed. If you wish to continue this, let's slow down. Breathe. Realize we play this for fun and this doesn't need to be debate school. Im very happy to work through but the wall of text is hard to respond via cell phone. So pick a point and let's start there.
  5. That is called data. Statistics requires more data than that. Someone please beat me senseless with a crutch.
  6. Ignoring crits of course. Crit effects are obviously highly variable from 0 to devastating, but a crit card seems to average out to roughly an additional damage. Very rough so not good to include in some calculations. But its important to remember in rerolling scenarios. e.g. you have targeting scramblers its often not a good idea to reroll the single black hits.
  7. But now you want us to use the most useless squadron in the game the basic Tie. You just want us to give points to the other player? TIE fighters are just fine. They are fragile but no more fragile than the more expensive Interceptors in lists the pro-Rhymer people in the thread have be proposing. From a pure point perspective they are incredibly efficient. That efficiency is somewhat lessoned by their 3 hp and there can be only so many commands thrown. I'm also not saying they are your only alternative. Use aggressors. Use Interceptors (though I'm not a fan). Use whatever you want. I'm not trying to push TIE fighters. I'm pushing playing without balls. um... that didn't come out quite right.
  8. An Aceball is already balling for multiple reasons. I'm not against Rhymer joining a ball in progress. My point is that TIE Bombers can be effective without Rhymer. I didn't say Mauler, Howlrunner, Denar, and company are more effective without him. You're doing a straw man argument. Taking a squadron away CAN make others more effective if the one being removed encourages poor play. You then give several points about moving bombers around that have no relevance to whether Rhymer is with the ball or not. TIE bombers can move speed 4 away from x-wings whether or not Rhymer is with them. Furthermore, if you're spending a command every turn to accomplish this then that actually reduces the need for Rhymer. Any squadron can quite effectively be part of a squadron screen regardless if the attack is coming from normal shooting distance or medium range. And once the bombers are close enough to threaten the whole ship (even with Rhymer), they are close enough for speed 3 X-wings to alpha strike. Your command intensive "peel away" also works just fine sans Rhymer. You need to have better positioning and anticipation for it to work, but it still works. Rhymer in no way counters all ship flak. He sort of counters black dice flak if the enemy is silly enough to never close. But if all you are doing is command intensive shoot and retreat (with a retreating Imperial vessel, how unbecoming of an officer of the Navy), then Rhymer's additional range isn't really contributing. I can do that with normal bombers. Letting ships come to you is a tried and true B-wing tactic. B-wings don't have Rhymer. Rhymer makes things easier. Of course he gets played. But Rebel squadrons do just fine without Rhymer, IF the player has gone to the trouble of learning the tricks of squadrons. If you want to treat it like a baseball warm up playing without him and then play the tournament with him, fine. I'm not stopping you. If you want every imperial squadron list to begin and end with a ball, that's your mental trap not mine. I'm just the voice at the prison door telling you the door unlocked, you just have to step out. No it doesn't. Yes it does.
  9. I'm too long gone from x-wing to know what this means in today's context. Back in the day I spent a lot of time trying to make a viable Rhymer list to little avail. That was prior to scum.
  10. Shove your challenge man. Can dudes have a convo without the inclusion of your attention-whoring? That's harsh. His thread is relevant to this one.
  11. I'm in the camp that Han is a blowhard. "Fastest ship in the fleet" my but. I still like him. He's just not 100% truthful. He is a rogue.
  12. Anyone not using the force to move their ships around is using their hands as crutch. Weak minded fools.
  13. so the forum just jumped the shark...
  14. I'm definitely a tool. But whose...?
  15. This style of play doesn't mean the squadrons NEED to be ship activated. It means playing positionally rather than pure tactically. I place my squadrons in a position I expect you to be/don't want you to be. If you move to avoid those squadrons then that is (hopefully if I did it right) to my advantage. So long as I place ANY squadron in the right place it should get two attacks off on most ships (except for CR90s running speed 4). It's not uncommon for me to run 3-5 A-wings without ever intending to issue a squadron command. If you want to avoid those A-wings, so be it. The 2TIE/1Bomb package is similar (though more expensive). You can get reasonably get 4 attacks off per game without commands or force serious deviation of enemy ships. As for the flak range, sure. But the point is you're not all in the same arc. Now that doesn't mean I don't use squadron commands. Well timed squadron commands can be the entire difference in the battle. So yes, I do invest some amount of the fleet using a TIE/bomber mix with squadron commands. Many people do. The difference is making sure your play doesn't rely entirely on the commands. Part of this is that it emphasizes a different style of play. Rhymer balls are similar to XI-7 ships in that the emphasis is on piercing attacks destroying ships with unused shields. Defuse squadron play surrounds the enemy preventing flak from getting too many shots in and makes redirect tokens "useless" in that your plan was to use mass efficiency to reduce most of the shields ANYWAY. Go ahead. Redirect that shot to your flank shields. I have squadrons on both sides any... etc. Because I'm using efficiently costed squadrons I generally have more potential raw attack power than someone using upgrades and aces. The trick is I need to use it properly. If I'm out of position too much my raw efficiency gets lost. So its not perfect by any stretch.
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