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Nephilm

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  1. N0-1_H3r3 said: Siranui said: I see nothing in that being a problem so long as the thunder-hammer is used in the conventional manner (two hands in power amrour, one with termie suits) rather than the one stated in the rules, and so long as it's not game-breaking. Sadly, the rules both allow use of it by a marine in scout armour in one hand, and are really broken. The "conventional manner" isn't so conventional as you might think. The Thunder Hammer isn't specifically a two-handed weapon for non-Terminators in the wargame either, unlike the Relic Blade. Siranui said: The TH can knock literally anything on its ass with no save (because I've not seen many things with a SB of over 30!) and invariably stun-locks everything, too. With multiple attacks the stun becomes a statistical near-certainty. The stun effect isn't that hard to get round, actually - any creature with Fate Points (such as, well, pretty much all Master enemies, post-errata) can spend one to overcome stunning, while the talent True Grit allows a simple Toughness Test to ignore being Stunned. A Daemon Prince actually can't be stunned at all, due to The Stuff of Nightmares. None of these things stop them being knocked down, but they make the Stun effect less significant on Master-level enemies. Making the TH two-handed when not in terminator armour seems like a good compromise, and maybe modifying the stunlock knocking down rules a bit. The talent you're thinking of is Iron Jaw, btw.
  2. No, no, no... you're missing my point. What I'm calling for is that weapons ought to be different. Have their niche. For instance, power swords are great all rounders and defensive weapons, lightning claws are good for very skilled melee specialists, relic blades are swords that eat other swords... that kind of thing. They have their own mechanics, benefits and drawbacks, gimmicks. What I'm seeing here is that the power fist and the thunder hammer fill the same kind of role, in roughly the same kind of manner, yet one is just plain better than the other, no drawbacks in terms of cost or availability or anything really. And I'm thinking this exactly because I'm factoring in the roleplaying - if my current Blood Angel Assault Marine has no strong feelings about either, then he would obviously go for the thunder hammer because he knows it has a concussive effect, and is equally easy to use and requisition. It's not about damage, but what they bring to the table. If I were doing a Salamander I'd take the hammer no questions asked. If I were doing a Crimson Fist I'd take the power fist. If I were doing my Black Templar I'd go with swords until I could be entrusted with a Relic Blade. But in a situation in which I'm neutral about things, I'm left wondering what reason for existing on has over the other.
  3. herichimo said: Stop thinking like a tabletop player. Start thinking like a role-player. Would you rather punch a hive tyrant in the face with a giant glowing fist of doom, or smash a chaos maring over the head with a giant pulsing warhammer? Take what you want, "which is better" be damned. It's not about "what is better," but about the differences that'd lead me to take something instead of another. What we have here is a case of something that's mechanically better than something else for the same cost, no drawbacks, same gimmick. Of course it's ultimately about what you find aesthetically more pleasing, which would lead you for instance to take a relic blade with your Black Templar because **** yeah you want to be a master swordsman with a huge sword, but one can't help but feel cheated out when what you want to do has no mechanical incentives to it, however minor they might be.
  4. LORD SHARICK said: HAIL BROTHER NEPHILM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........ACTUALLY YOU JUST CHANGE THE UNNATURAL STR TO x3 INSTEAD OF MULTIPLIYNG THE DAMAGE X 2, SO AS YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR EXAMPLE A BATTLE BROTHER WITH STR 50 WILL ONLY GET A +15 STR DMG + POWER FIST BONUS, WITHOUT MULTIPLYING IT AGAIN x 2............MAY THE RUSS AN THE ALLFATHER GUIDE YOU BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then there would be no reason to take a power fist over a thunder hammer ever?
  5. The weapons table says they (and chainfists) double the SB that gets added to damage, and their text description says that power fists increase the wielder's unnatural strength multiplier by one. Now, applying both of those would mean that on a marine with 50ish strength a hit would do 2d10+34 damage per hit, before taking into account any other bonuses from talents and weapon quality. Breakdown: [2d10 + ((5*3)+2)*2] Normal SB 5 from 50~ strength, tripled from Unnatural Strength x(2+1), plus 2 from armour (+20), all that doubled due to powerfist description. And well, this seems rather excessive. While I can totally see it as something that'd wreck a tank, it renders other melee weapons irrelevant as damage dealers. Of course, you could also assume that the "doubles strength" is an extension of the "increases unnatural strength by 1" description in the text, but going by the newest Living Errata that'd mean that Thunder Hammers are better than Power Fists in every way, since they cost the same, yet do more damage and add the perma-stun concussion ability in addition to being more versatile (as they allow the use of the hand outside of combat). So, uh... thoughts?
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