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SolennelBern

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  1. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to Robin13 in Poor Overlord (heroes OP?)   
    Well, on BGG, there is a poll about which has had about 250 answers.
    33% consider that the heroes are favoured
    33% consider that the OL is favoured
    33% consider that the game is balanced...
    (and the majority, counting those who believe that Descent is balanced) consider that one side is at most "slightly"unbalanced (in one or the other direction).
     
    So we are far from having an unanimous, massive belief (the "flaws" which some find are based upon only some factors and don't take the whole picture into account) that one side is more favoured that the other.
     
    I think that, at the present stage of evaluation, the real question really is "do you have fun playing Descent  (as the OL, as the heroes) ?", whatever pretense of "serious" analysis of the game's balance the posters believe they can display.
     
    Of course, playing the OL is not the same thing as playing the heroes, and one can naturally prefer one role over the other.
  2. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to Kunzite in The difficulty of evaluating global balance is increasing   
    Yah, I have though of that as well. We have only done one full campaign, so we aren't very experienced yet. With having everything at our finger tips will set the mood for how things work in the future. If I, the OL, am having issues we will look back at making my larger monsters move faster again.
     
    I have seen other house rules that would make it imposable for me to get anywhere with the quest and would take all the fun out of it. One of the heroes would be very upset if he knew I held back anything, even the rules changed for his advantage. That, I believe, should be the spirit of the game. And it's in that spirit that makes the game balanced.
  3. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to Robin13 in The difficulty of evaluating global balance is increasing   
    I tend to think that large monsters are given less speed, precisely because they can expand while interrupting a movement action (or after their first movement action) and re-shrink from a square further than the one they expanded from.
    There have been a number of debates on BGG about this.
    I understand that some players, for thematical reasons, restrict the shrink/unshrink mechanics.
    And giving some advantage to fast, small monsters, is not a bad idea.
    But I personally stick to the RAW, because my level of belief is quite high before it is suspended.
  4. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from Silverhelm in Poor Overlord (heroes OP?)   
    I completely understand your point here but I'll defend mine to the death!
     
    When I buy a game I know it'll have issues with it, it's been designed and develop buy human being bound to make errors.  When I buy a game I buy it to play it, not to find issues it may have...since I know there will be.
     
    When I play a game I play to relax myself and think about something else, have fun with friends and laugh in the process, not to verbalise every issue we coma accross and break the mood of the evening...cause if I want mood breaking situations I only have to come to work and I get my fix.
     
    When I get home I grab a beer, call some buddies, pick a game and play it.  And if something is clearly broken we'll continue playing anyways and maybe if we're feeling like it come up with a houserule that suites our group.
     
    I'll repeat myself and that is something I already said in a couple other threads:
     
    - My play style is a casual one where I play a game and don't care about flaws as long as everyone is have a blast around the table.  If someone doesn't enjoy himself/herself we'll discuss it after the game and create a hotfix for it.
     
    - Some other people play styles is to study and dissect the game to it's core to find every issues it may have.  Then post on forums to let other players know of the issues and explain them and more ofthen than not some up with a quick fix.  I IMMENSELY respect them for taking the time peeling every layers of the game and let everyone know of the flaws they found.
     
    So in summary, I extremely appreciate the time some take to find flaws but it'll not divert me nor my group in having fun with the game as is.
  5. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from tadkil1 in The difficulty of evaluating global balance is increasing   
    I think the term "balance" is something that doesn not exist in games.
     
    How can you measure balance when you mix in the tools available from the game with a human being way of playing?  One cannot simply state balance when component, luck and human factors are in the mix...like one cannot simply walk into Mordor.
     
    Player A is a great strategist but is known to have bad luck
    Player B sucks at strategy but always have high luck
     
    Which player will have better success in a game when strategy is as important as having good luck?
     
    If Player A lose most quests because of bad rolls can we cry imbalance?
    If Player B lose most quests because he just don't get how to get to the objective can we cry imbalance?
     
    Balance/Imbalance doesn't exist, it's just another tool for the whiners to whine while drinking wine.
  6. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from Bladen in The difficulty of evaluating global balance is increasing   
    I think the term "balance" is something that doesn not exist in games.
     
    How can you measure balance when you mix in the tools available from the game with a human being way of playing?  One cannot simply state balance when component, luck and human factors are in the mix...like one cannot simply walk into Mordor.
     
    Player A is a great strategist but is known to have bad luck
    Player B sucks at strategy but always have high luck
     
    Which player will have better success in a game when strategy is as important as having good luck?
     
    If Player A lose most quests because of bad rolls can we cry imbalance?
    If Player B lose most quests because he just don't get how to get to the objective can we cry imbalance?
     
    Balance/Imbalance doesn't exist, it's just another tool for the whiners to whine while drinking wine.
  7. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to Kunzite in The difficulty of evaluating global balance is increasing   
    And I think it comes down to people respecting the power player vs the the antithetical player. If the OL can't enjoy the game as the heroes do their thing, then maybe the OL needs to be a Hero. It happened VERY early in our first campaign. I was playing a scout. First blood, we ROLLED the OL and she was not happy. So she and I switched roles.
     
    Now, I watched allot of Inspector Gadget, Zorro and Batman (the OLD TV show) growing up, so I was thinking I would lose allot, and I am ok with that. Being the better loser made the game work allot better. That's not what ended up happening, but most everyone was alright with that. Alright enough to keep me as OL as they look for harder ways to beat my monsters in submission. But that's what the game is about.
     
    And it's not like FF doesn't keep this in mind. As a whole, LoR looks to be a little more equal in motion then SoR. Allot of the quests (I have read all of act one quests, but not act two) seem to have equal outcome for hero and OL because the tasks might be the same, or equally the same with enough verity to keep things interesting. They also are REALLY pushing for the OL to engage the heroes more, as in hitting them instead of running. >o I liked running and not getting hurt, BUT I can't get my way all the time. Even though I don't like it, I think it was a good move. With that came slightly better monsters to work with.
  8. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from Kunzite in The difficulty of evaluating global balance is increasing   
    I like this thread!
     
    Great posts Robin and Kunzite.  I like you comparison and analysis of the many types of gamers and what each is looking for in a game.
     
    I'm fully aware that Player A might enjoy powergaming and finding the best skills/items and stick with those from campaigns to campaigns and I also know that Player B just want to sit down with friends, gear up and smash faces while talking about the last hockey game or crying out how his girlfriend just pisses him off when he misses that important roll
     
    So no judging here, just enjoying different play styles.
  9. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to Kunzite in The difficulty of evaluating global balance is increasing   
    I have noticed something on the Descent form I thought is really interesting. Don't get me wrong when I say this. Rather I find this really cool.
     
    The level headed Descent form people (the ones that are encouraging and defending the fun factor and/or the build of the game, such as OL smashes the faces of Heroes so the heroes can do the same for the OL, strategy and fun factor) are older, more mature people (mostly male for what I can see) from countries out side of the US. I don't fit any of that category, which is why I picked it up.
     
    Americans (and I am one) LOVE to complain when things aren't heading their way. And younger people (and I am one of those too) haven't been burned enough to know what it means to have fun. Really, I think that is what it might boil down to is some cases. Allot of people that played D1 (I wasn't one of those) already know the good and bad changes that have happened for D2. Maybe, just maybe, they are more willing to play for the sake of playing.
     
    And as the old saying goes, misery loves company. You get one simi valid argument going and all those that agree will cheer and say way this is true.
     
    But, really, since both OL and Heroes cry OP to the other side, doesn't that make the game balanced? I saw a chart once of people that voted for how many times the heroes won in a campaign. BEAUTIFUL bell curve with 50% in the middle. That should speak for it's self.
  10. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to Robin13 in The difficulty of evaluating global balance is increasing   
    I started this thread, because of the numerous threads that state that Descent is not balanced.
     
    I like your final word! 
    I started this thread, because there have been so many debates about the game's balance - with greatly diverging opinions.
    A lot of house rules are crafted with the idea of making things more "balanced".
     
    But I do think, as you do, that most of the criticisms are more about "whining" than about sound analysis.
     
    Now, even if luck is involved in a game, one can still evaluate if a given single scenario (here: encounter, quest) is balanced in favour of one or the other side.
    In the case of Castle Daerion, some players found the trick to make the heroes fairly unable to win, thus leading FFG to write an erratum about Militia entering later in the game.
    First Blood clearly favours the heroes.
    Statistical analysis can be usefull, too.
    At that level, I see gamers of many other games offer interesting and serious evaluations.
     
    But, for Descent, there is a quite recurrent urge for some players to venture a global judgement about the game's balance.
     
    IMO, as already expressed, I do think that it is impossible to conclude about Descent's (un)balance as a whole, because there are far too many variables to take into account.
    Each quest is different, and monsters and hero group composition can vary for the same quest, making things quite different from one playing to another.
    Some "unbeatable" combinations can suddenly be outwitted by smarter players.
    Etc.
     
    We could go a step further than just saying that some people state that Descent is unbalanced because they are "whiners".
    We could ask oureselves what they are awaiting from the game.
    Are they overly obsessed by winning - at a point that they cannot have fun during the game, if they end by loosing it?
    Are they unable to integrate the luck factor - at a point that they will blame the game to be less balanced than chess (and even chess is said to be slightly balanced in favour of the white player)?
    Are they simply oblivious of the human factor (that makes some players better tacticians than others)? I am quite convinced that group dynamics have a lot to do with the way the game develops.
     
    I have been playing many boardgames, and am present on many forums, but it seems that the obsession of global balance is something quite specific to Descent.
    I am an ASL player (it is a very detailed WW2 tactical wargame), but I don't seem to ever have seen ASLers say that the game as a whole is unbalanced. There are debates about a given nationality's values, about specific scenarios being "three legged dogs", etc.
    But never the global dismissal of a game as I have seen about Descent about a supposed global unbalance.
     
    I am still scratching my head in perplexity about that phenomenon.
  11. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from Robin13 in Poor Overlord (heroes OP?)   
    Wow i'm glad I play to have fun cause each campaign I'd do the same **** and choose the same characters over and over again.  I play to have fun (Hero or OL) and choosing the "easy" path is not my style.
     
    I'm glad some like this type of "powergaming" and i'm sure they have fun playing this way so I respect that.
     
    I just like to try different avenues and mix/match eveytime I can do that...like playing with 4 Mages and laugh
  12. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from PierreBoberg in The difficulty of evaluating global balance is increasing   
    I think the term "balance" is something that doesn not exist in games.
     
    How can you measure balance when you mix in the tools available from the game with a human being way of playing?  One cannot simply state balance when component, luck and human factors are in the mix...like one cannot simply walk into Mordor.
     
    Player A is a great strategist but is known to have bad luck
    Player B sucks at strategy but always have high luck
     
    Which player will have better success in a game when strategy is as important as having good luck?
     
    If Player A lose most quests because of bad rolls can we cry imbalance?
    If Player B lose most quests because he just don't get how to get to the objective can we cry imbalance?
     
    Balance/Imbalance doesn't exist, it's just another tool for the whiners to whine while drinking wine.
  13. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from Kunzite in Poor Overlord (heroes OP?)   
    Nice! Looks like a fun mix to play with! I really like the new monsters from LoR, they look great and seem to pack some punch! 
     
    I'm starting a mini-campaign tonight as the OL with my bro since he wants to try the Heroes side and get the feel of a campaign, so the LotW mini-campaign is a cool way to get into the game and keep the general character progression feel.
     
    There's nothing that would stop you from using the new monsters in an ongoing campaign apart from the players you play with.  If they don't want to don't use them...but if they don't want the new monsters I would not give them the new Shop Items, conditions and other mixable stuff and evil laugh at their faces
  14. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to JBouthietteJr in Poor Overlord (heroes OP?)   
    Exactly this! My group started another run through Shadow Ruin, but my copy of Labyrinth should be showing up tomorrow, and I'm hoping my heroes will be okay with me integrating the new monsters into our already-started campaign. And if they do, the first moment I can get zombies and arachyura onto the same field, I'm going to! Wimpy little brown-die-defense zombies to make the heroes feel good about themselves, then a giant freakin' spider to mess with their day. Or better yet, TWO giant freakin' spiders 
  15. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to Robin13 in The difficulty of evaluating global balance is increasing   
    Just a reflexion about the way one could evaluate if Descent favours the OL or the heroes.
     
    The increase of expansions, with new heroes, new monsters, new OL cards and new quests - adding new features like secret rooms and new conditions - seems to make a global evaluation quite difficult, in an expansional way.
    The simple addition of the CK does make thousands of new combinations, either of monsters or of hero teams.
     
    Up to now, most of the evaluations are based upon anecdotical situations where one side cannot overcome a precise situations - or cannot get back on the road of success because of previous failures.
     
    Even though any report of situation is interesting and adds to the debate, I really think that general statements about the game's balance are all but impossible.
     
    I don't feel that I am a "fanboy" clinging to the idea that Descent must be balanced overall.
    But I believe that, as more expansions will be produced, more Descent will be an adventure, where, even if doing their best to win (and thus honour their opponents), player will just spend a nice, fun time, whatever the outcome.
  16. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from bringweed2 in I have Labyrinth of Ruin ... Questions?   
    Any new cool stuff that boost the OL overall power and scariness?
    The theme in this expansion is really cool, remind me of the Anh Qiraj raid in WoW
  17. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from Kunzite in Poor Overlord (heroes OP?)   
    Kunzite...i'm very disappointed in your behavior!!!!!!!
    Giving away a relic to those filthy do-gooder Heroes?!!??!?! Shame on you!
     
    More seriously, I can understand your move especially when you have players accusing you of being OP...which IMO is completely ridiculous.  
     
    How I see it:
    - A good OL player will win against meh Hero players
    - A meh OL player will lose against good Hero players
    - When both sides are on equal grounds talent wise, both will have equal chances of winning.
     
    MEH player: A meh player is either a new player discovering the game or simply a bad player that doesn't really understand it's role and what he have to do to win.  Example: Our last campaign our OL played to kill us most of the time, choosing huge monsters when small and quick monsters would be the best.  He didn't cared much about his objective and ended up winnin only one quest in the whole campaign.  I tried to make him understand that he should focus more on his objkective and not on the Heroes but it didn't do the trick.  Sure it was his first time with the game and i'm sure he'll get better.  He is our Mansions of Madness Keeper and he's merciless and really good!  So after our first campaign I think he understood what his role was and how to play the next time.
     
    I'd say, play more one-shot quests so that everyone understand what the game is about and what you have to do in a quest to win.  Both sides have objectives and when you play the objective you get closer to winning.
     
    Sure there's quests that lean towards one side but overall, if everyone play to their best, all will have a chance at winning.
  18. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to Kunzite in Poor Overlord (heroes OP?)   
    But... Ah... mah... *sits in corner of shame*
     
    All in all, our first run was almost one for one. Heroes did badly act one (I cleaned the floor with their crippled bodies!) but act two opened up a whole new world for the heroes. Grim was a horrible act one character while act two I stayed as far away from him as I could, only attacking him with reach monsters. Even my Lut. where an arm's reach of him. They would have done circles around me even if I didn't give them the staff of light.
     
    We have done a few Epic Quests before going into another campaign. I have tried other class cards and they have tried other characters. We have allot of characters to play around with since the new expansion came out and we got the conversion kit. If you guys think it's hard now, wait till they get their hands on some nasty heroes. But fear not! There was more dirty tricks with the OL cards.
     
    Last advice. Getting quests with toys is nice, but not always the best root. Getting bigger and better cards (ie getting XP) might be what will win it for you. Most quests you win in this manner will also deprive your heroes of money. This is GOOD. More money=better toys for them. Trust me, you want them to hang onto that chipped ax for as long as you can.
  19. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to Kunzite in Poor Overlord (heroes OP?)   
    After playing a full quest as the OL for Shadow Ruin, I feel I have a little experience. Just a wee bit. And enough to know that though I am the only girl in our group playing, no man will be throwing me from my thrown >}
     
    So, I had one rather salty player and one loud mouth accusing me of being overpowered (at that point I had won enough to win Overlord Revealed) which landed me in a tricky place. I felt, as the GM/OL I should have some mercy, so I "gave" them back the shadow staff (giving them the staff of light) in the quest where they could get it back. Basically, I meant to lose that quest.
     
    It was stupid. Stupid Stupid Stupid.
     
    I lost the campaign because of it. BUT, in the long run, everyone is happier. I am a better loser of the bunch so I didn't mind. Will I try to lose again. NO. ^.~ I held their hand for Shadow Ruin. It's Labyrinth time and I am going to lay on the hurt.
     
    For new OLs and their new groups, if you are having a hard time winning there might be a few reasons for that.
    The OL has to remember ALLOT! I write everything down. I write down all their stats, all their skills and all their equipment.
    I plan at least an hour in the week before playing it with them. (I'm a slow brewer, so I often take longer then an hour to look over a quest). I read on how others might have played a quest, or see what monsters others think are good. I write that down. Knowlage and planing are your best friend. Please look at the Wiki for any character and monster stats you might not have on hand.
     
    Give your heroes time to plan together. Often times, in our group, the only time they have to plan is right before the quest because they all have to come together to do that. I suggested me putting in my headphones and letting me draw humiliating pictures of me smashing their faces in while they plan (yes, I do that. I am an artist. They tempt me. The best moment in our game play was when my etten was playing toss the scout. It is illustrated and it is beautiful. >} I'm evil). Having that time makes EVERYONE happy. I can't hear what they are saying and they can't hear what I am thinking. We are on level playing field. 
     
    On the other hand, while playing, take note of everything being said and plan for it. Having a fist full of cards, a devilishly handsome grin and leaning forward in your seat can turn any game into your favor even if your hand is full of crap. I have stalled out two turns that way, no joke. Stalling is my specialty.
     
    Have fun. If you can't do that in a campaign, then do some epic plays. Last night we did Frozen Spire. I SHOULD have won that one, but I chose Kobolds as my ambush group at the end of the game. Why? Because they are the stupidest monster group EVER! and I was dieing to use them where it didn't matter. We had allot of fun and laughed. It felt good to lose that because it was stupid and because it wasn't demanding on the long run.
     
    If all this doesn't help, then maybe you aren't cut out to be the OL. There is nothing wrong with that. Trust me, it takes a spacial person to be evil. Be a hero, and let someone else bash your face in >} it might be better that way. But the fact remains. You HAVE ti have fun. If you can't do that, then you need a new game. Go play Arkham x.x
  20. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from Ringskipper in Now that the new forums are implemented...   
    ...can you please announced Runebound 3rd edition?
     
    Thank you very much!
  21. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to fatmax66 in Painted miniatures   
  22. Like
    SolennelBern got a reaction from DandGeezer in Now that the new forums are implemented...   
    ...can you please announced Runebound 3rd edition?
     
    Thank you very much!
  23. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to DocPanic in Poor Overlord (heroes OP?)   
    +1
    Totally agree.
    In fact, I think, that the Overlord is a good guy, giving the Heroes a formidable oponent and a enjoyable evening. So please give him more choices, more punch!
  24. Like
    SolennelBern reacted to any2cards in I have Labyrinth of Ruin ... Questions?   
    The new monsters included with Labyrinth of Ruin are as follows:
     
    Goblin Witcher   Attack Type: Range   Traits: Building, Cursed
         Act I:   Minion   Speed: 4   Hearts: 3   Defense: Gray   Attack: Blue Yellow
                                  Surge: Curse   Surge: +1 Range
                    Master   Speed: 4   Hearts: 5   Defense: Gray   Attack: Blue Yellow
                                  Action: Bewitch   Surge: Curse   Surge: +2 Range
         Act II:  Minion   Speed: 4   Hearts: 6   Defense: Gray   Attack: Blue Yellow
                                  Surge: Curse   Surge: +2 Range   Surge: +1 Heart
                    Master   Speed: 4   Hearts: 8   Defense: Gray   Attack: Blue Yellow Green
                                  Surge: Bewitch   Surge: Curse   Surge: +2 Range   Surge: +2 Hearts
     
    Bewitch: Move each adjacent Cursed hero up to 2 spaces in any direction of your choice.
     
    Curse: If this attack deals at least 1 Heart (after the defense roll), the target is Cursed.
     
     
    Volucrix Reaver   Attack Type: Melee   Traits: Building, Mountain
         Act I:   Minion   Speed: 4   Hearts: 3   Defense: Gray   Attack: Blue Yellow 
                                  Action: Skirmish   Surge: Pierce 2
                    Master   Speed: 4   Hearts: 5   Defense: Gray   Attack: Blue Yellow
                                  Surge: Ravage   Action: Skirmish   Surge: Pierce 2   Surge: +1 Heart
         Act II:  Minion   Speed: 4   Hearts: 4   Defense: Gray Brown   Attack: Blue Red
                                  Action: Skirmish   Surge: Pierce 2
                    Master   Speed: 4   Hearts: 6   Defense: Gray Brown   Attack: Blue Red
                                  Ravage   Action: Skirmish   Surge: Pierce 3   Surge: +2 Hearts
     
    Ravage: Both of this monster's actions on a turn may be attack actions.
     
    Skirmish: This monster may move 3 spaces, then perform an attack.
     
     
    Carrion Drake   Attack Type: Melee   Traits: Water, Dark
         Act I:   Minion   Speed: 5   Hearts: 6   Defense: Gray   Attack: Blue Yellow
                                  Fly   Surge: Disease   Surge: +1 Heart
                    Master   Speed: 5   Hearts: 8   Defense: Gray   Attack: Blue Yellow
                                  Fly   Plagued   Surge: Disease   Surge: +2 Hearts
         Act II:  Minion   Speed: 5   Hearts: 7   Defense: Gray Brown   Attack: Blue Yellow Green
                                  Fly   Surge: Disease   Surge: +1 Heart   Surge: +1 Heart
                     Master  Speed: 5   Hearts: 10   Defense: Gray Gray   Attack: Blue Yellow Green
                                  Fly   Plagued   Surge: Disease   Surge: +2 Hearts
     
    Fly: This monster may ignore enemy figures and the effects of terrain while moving.  It must end its movement
           in an empty space following normal movement rules.
     
    Plagued: When a hero adjacent to this monster would discard a Poisoned or Diseased Condition card, he
                    instead keeps the card.
     
    Disease: If this attack deals at least 1 Heart (after the defense roll), the target is Diseased.
     
     
    Arachyura   Attack Type: Melee   Traits: Wilderness, Curse
         Act I:   Minion   Speed: 3   Hearts: 5   Defense: Gray Brown   Attack: Blue Red Green
                                  Action: Pincer Attack   Surge Surge: Pierce 1
                    Master   Speed: 3   Hearts: 7   Defense: Gray Brown   Attack: Blue Red Green
                                  Lingering Curse   Action: Pincer Attack   Surge Surge: Pierce 2
         Act II   Minion   Speed: 3   Hearts: 7   Defense: Black   Attack: Blue Red Green
                                  Action: Pincer Attack   Surge Surge: Pierce 2
                    Master   Speed: 3   Hearts: 9   Defense: Black   Attack: Blue Red Green
                                  Lingering Curse   Action: Pincer Attack   Surge Surge: Pierce 3
     
    Lingering Curse: When this monster is defeated, each adjacent hero must test Willpower.
                                Each Hero that fails is Cursed.
     
    Pincer Attack: Perform an attack targeting up to 2 heroes adjacent to this monster.  1 attack roll
                           is made but each hero rolls defense dice separately.  Each target that suffers at
                           least 1 Heart from this attack (after the defense roll) is Immobilized.
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