*Gaint Spoiler Alert* Don't read if you are a fan of the Black Library Audio Books and don't want to spoil two of them...... The audio book from BL points to Garro creating a group of Marines with a stylized "I" and made up of marines from Loyalist and well as Traitor marines. So he did not directly have a had in the Minators, and since they are part of the 21st founding "cursed founding" that was a significant amount of time after the 2nd founding directly after the Battle of Terra. I would go with the idea that someone did indeed decide it might be an idea to use some of the "reserve" gene seed from the Traitor Legions. The Legions of course where much larger than the present day Chapters and they where formed from both men of Terra and then men from the home word of the Primarch ounce he was re-united with the Emperor. You could make a good case that the Minators where formed from World Eater seed... (very agressive and close combat oriented) Blood Ravens from Thousand Sons (high number of Psi users) Executioners from Night Lords (never held territory and used terror tactics) Also we know that samples of seed are sent for purity testing from each Chapter to Terra and so there are samples stored for each current Chapter and extra seed is grown to be able to replace losses. Storm of Iron is a great novel to ilistrate this point (personal bias obviously....) Finally, based on the History of the Crimson Fists it is very possible for only 100 Marines to recreate a Chapter strength of 1000 eventually so the survivors of the Loyal Death Guard (not nececarily Garro) could have continued to serve the Emperor (if not killed in their moon prison....) so in the end you have reason to go any direction you would like. That is really the great thing about the "missing pieces" in the Cannon. Makes for a lot of fun and that is what matters most. Ditto on the Part 1 and 2 FW Books - anyone that wants to see how awesome it is for Marine to pair off against Marine and how each chapter follows it's only path from the Codex would love to read them for sure.

The one main thing to remember when creating Chaos Marines is that some of them have had 10,000 + years to perfect their evilness.. I would try to decide on what Fallen Chapter they represent and then you can tailor the powers and abilities to represent that Power of Chaos to it's fullest. I have just picked up the Rogue Trader Main Book and it is an excellent source to use as a template to help.

Hello everyone, I wanted to try my first post and throw out there my idea for a First Founding Chapter the Raven Guard. I think the Chapter is an excellent fit for DeathWatch, very independant and their tactics are very different than what is presented in the main book. Just a note that I do not have Rites of Battle yet and am looking forward to getting a copy here in Canada soon so I can adjust this very rough outline. With that said, please offer any suggestions to tool out this rough stating point. I have access to a great deal of GW material from as far back as Rogue Trader days and hope to be able to flesh out a few of the Main First Founding Chapters for our group of players. (Salamanders, Crimson Fists and Blood Raven for sure) Of course, for those of you who have the Rites of Battle, if the Raven Guard are already included (as I know Imperial Fists will be) then mentioning that now would be apeciated so I don't kill myself trying to figure this out. Thanks again for some feed back and glad to be a non lurker. RAVEN GUARD Raven Guard Space marines perform precision strikes and are fiercely independent. This Chapter’s warriors possess both great reflexes and instincts for strategy and unit command. A Raven Guard Space Marine gains the following benefits: +5 Agility, +5 Fellowship and the Strike Hard, Strike Fast Solo Mode ability (see following) Implants: Raven Guard Space Marines do not posses either the Betcher’s gland or Mueranoid gland as their gene seed has been mutated to the point that they do not function. Raven Guard characters do not gain the benefits of either of these implants. The Melanchromic Organ however has a unique mutation that over the years of service causes the skin of the Battle-Brother to grow paler, eventually they will be as white as their Primarch and their hair and eyes will darken, becoming black as coal. Chapter Demeanour Strike at the Heart, is a Demeanour (see page 32) unique to Space Marines from the Raven Guard Chapter. The Raven Guard follows the dictates of the Codex Astartes closely, though they do differ in the tactical application of their troops. The Raven Guard depend heavily on their ability to act alone for extended periods of time. Tactical prowess and personal initiative are seen as more important than mere might. If there is the possibility of using a swift dagger to the heart instead of a drawn out fight, the Raven Guard are the ones to find it and act. These beliefs cause some tension between the Raven Guard and other Chapters, particularly the Blood Angels who they see as brutish and clumsy. Chapter Trappings Deliverance, the Raven guard’s Chapter planet and base of operations, has the production capacity of a small forge world, ensuring that the Raven Guard rarely lacks for the materiel to prosecute its campaigns. Imperial Laurel: Add +3 to Parry Tests Iron Skull: Add +3 to Command Tests The Marksman’s Honour: Add +1 Damage on the First Attack Roll in a Combat Raven Guard Drop Pin: Awarded to Veterans for Multiple successful Drop Pod Attacks, Add +1 to Initiative Rolls Raven Guard Chapter Advances Advance Cost Type Prerequisites Found/From Command 400 Skill Ultramarines Points Command +10 400 Skill Command +20 400 Skill Move Silently 200 Skill Same as Blood Angel Move Silently +10 600 Skill Acrobatics advance Move Silently +20 600 Skill Air of Authority 500 Talent Fel 30 Rank 1 Tactical Hammer Blow 500 Talent AdeptusAstartes Storm Warden List Hatred (Chaos Space Marines) 500 Talent Standard Points Hatred (Orks) 500 Talent Standard Points Hip Shooting 500 Talent BS 40, Ag 40 Rank 2 Tactical Paranoid 500 Talent Dark Angel List Swift Attack 500 Talent WS 35 Rank 1 Assault Thunder Charge 1000 Talent AdeptusAstartes Storm Warden List Solo Mode Ability Strike Hard, Strike Fast Required Rank: 1 Effects: Raven Guard are well known for their use of the precise application of force to cripple their enemy while avoiding a protracted engagement. This Combat Doctrine has insured the Chapters survival through the Millenniums. Ounce per combat, a Battle-Brother of the Raven Guard may perform a Running Assault. As part of a normal Charge Action, a Battle-Brother may move up to their Maximum Charge Distance again, ounce the Charge Action is complete but before any other actions are taken. The initial Charge Action also benefits from an enhanced bonus of +20 to Weapon Skill vs. the normal +10 bonus. Improvements: At Rank 3 and above the Penetration of the Melee Weapon used during a Charge Action gains a bonus of +2. At Rank 5 and above this bonus melee weapon Penetration rises to +4. At Rank 7 and above the Battle-Brothers Agility Characteristic is treated as having the Unnatural Trait for the purpose of determining their Max initial Charge range as well as the following movement for this Solo Mode Ability. Chapter Attack Patterns (pg222) Chapter Name Action Cost Sustained Note Raven Guard Lightning Strike Reaction 2 No Same as Storm Warden Ability (fits perfectly) Chapter Defensive Stances (pg225) Chapter Name Action Cost Sustained Note Raven Guard Shield and Sword Free 2 Yes Same as Storm Warden Ability (is a pretty good fit) Thanks for your time