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Battle_Sister_Huber

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  1. i once again agree with siranui and selanus about handing out the corruption points and arkhan and deinol about that being a marine dosent meant being a jerk in fact being a marine or sister means you should be a paragon of the imperium and i wish this group was like jesus jhons thankfully my other 2 groups of FFG 40k games are doing well one ive already told you about and the others a game on saturdays with a confessor a sister famulous ive been talking with the GM about this matter and well he thinks that whats going on is this he thinks the marine players are acting like heretics and are weather they realise it or not bullying me all from the same source namely he thinks the issue is that they thought them selves untouchable as marines and incomparable as marines too other forms of character thus he thinks its from this arrogance that the heretical behaviour is stemming and that its from my sister not only holding her own at range but having equal/better armour and defences but less wounds and having her faith powers etc and excelling them in melee that has gotten there noses a bit out of joint thus he thinks the marine players are bullying me out of a resentment that my character is there equal in most things but that for everything they have something there better at my sister has something shes better than them at in other words he thinks there problem is that there noses have been put out of joint that i am actually there equal but he thinks there main issue obviously isnt with where there better than me but where i am better than them (in combat with daemons for example) h thinks the issue is mainly an ego an ego that my character just bye joining has annoyed (mind you anyone playing the game just for fun or who has read 40k lore and would realise the battle sisters are the female counter part too the marines wouldnt) as for the heretical corrupt behaviour he has been thinking on what too do about this (especially when they threatened my characters life several times) in short he knows if he punish's one he must do them all and thats where he is hitting a wall he's afraid if he punishes them that they'll just get worse and that then he'll have too kill them all or force retire there characters and that that will kill his game because then he will only have my sister left but at the same time he has stated he does know and is aware there acting like chaos marines not marines and knows he needs too do something about it he actually stated especially seeing as its gotten too the level of threatening my character he also stated that if they did kill her he would have the inquisition investigate and them and the sister hood wipe them he also stated that if he found out it was a personal issue he would not only understand me leaving that group but that he also would himself but for now he doe's not think thats the case he thinks its just insulted ego's anyways i figured id inform you guys of updates upon this issue
  2. ahh thank you very much fenrisnorth and i know that the guys in that bad group arent reflective of gamers over all in fact that is why i am shocked at there behaviour im in many gaming groups myself 3 in total and this is the 1st time i have ever encountered such behaviour i know that in truth most of us gamers are lovely people who just wanna have fun and use enjoy our imaginations its why i asked advice as i have never encountered behaviour like this before even if there was realistic character reasons in any other gaming group ive ever been in people would make there characters maybe not exactly too get on but too at least work together a good example is my main dark heresy group we have my battle sister Aalina huber, who has the back round schola progenium and slaughtered bye hereitics however her mother and father were but humble adepts and thus she has an appreciation of any loyal servant of the emperor my co players are a confessor of pure faith, a puritan priest and a adept, as you can imagine we made our characters too get along and they do so wonderfully so well in fact our GM is considering giving us the eccelsiarchy cell group rules in game we interact very well the adept does all the knowledge based stuff, and tech use with me, the confessor does all the investigation of a searching manner and interactive form the priest does all are charming and positive coercing people etc, and my sister does all the fighting and intimidating, so as you can see we work very well together and thats the kind of thing i have come too expect in gaming groups so this uni group is really shocking as ive never encountered behaviour like this before
  3. wow once again thanks guys for all the support, and yeah charamander i dont have this problem in the heresy game because in it like in any good RPG group weve all made our characters too get along, or worked out ways where they would do so and thanks siranna yeah it seems like walking from the group may be my best option but im gonna chat with the GM 1st and see if he is willing too do anything about it in game if not then ill walk and if he does and it still continues then its def an outa game issue and in that case ill def walk i also thank both charamander and harlokin for your support and yeah it does indeed seem just like bullying, it was the fact that ive never played with these people before i couldnt figure out why, however i think youve all hit the nail on the head there assholes, but also where as i could imagine reasons for a marine not likeing the inquisition etc i agree with what siranui said then they wouldnt be chosen for the deathwatch and too answer "alex frosts" question i joined just cause they were struggling with numbers and wanted too help out my friend whos GMing, but how he brought my character in is that in the story there playing there hunting down alpha legion chaos marines and a necron cult before there imperium knows what the necrons are and th exact nature of my character's presence in the group was because of the chaos marines and cultists meaning it was both a hereticus and xenos matter and fear it wasnt xenos was damons and heretics and or worse yet deamon worshipping xenos and so the inquisition had decided too send in a battle sister with the marines just in case thats another odd thing about it all my sisters gear and abilities have proven invaluable and really helped them out so not only are they being asses but stupid also examples 3 times my passion power saved the party bye getting us great dodges and going 1st, and my warded armour meant when we faced guys with wrath blade's being warp weapons i actually had armour and could hold them up in melee this is another aspect of there behaviour i cannot even understand because as said i only joined too help out a friend an made my character utterly too help the group, theyd no assault marine, so knowing how good sisters with the right faith powers can be in melee i made a utterly melee focused sister, i deliberatly got my fel up so i could buff them all with powers, and chose mostly powers that would effect and help them the only 2 powers i have that dont are hand of the emperor and the blessed blade, i even took the palantine trait miracle worker so as too be more helpful and thank's umbranus for agreeing with me that they are indeed acting like chaos marines not loyal astartes i mean one of them even said the following when my sister meet and was trying too get on with him "dont talk too me animal your but a mere woman a human being, i hate humanity for it is weak humans are merely animals too be kept as pets" my reaction was too be utterly stunned as a player, i even turned too him and said "umm i dont think a space marine would say such a thing marines are meant too be the super solider and sisters the paladin exemplars of humanity, i dont think a marine would ever say such a thing unless he had turned too chaos" he went on out of character justifying his behaviour saying his demeanour was arrogance i said in reply too that that was not arrogance that was insanity, i then thought on it and decided it he wasnt worth argueing with some guy i didnt know and so i merely said to him in character with a curious and suspicious expression "so you hate humanity the divine form given bye the god emperor???" he said in character "yes and the imperium for all its weakness i am a god and only fellow god battle brothers even deserve too live" i said "so you also hate the imperium??? then why are you here???" (note repressing what my characters actual battle sister response should have been which was too smite the heretic, but bye this point feeling extremely uncomfy in the group already his reply in character was "i dunno im just here for the fun of killing things" too which i then said out of character "ok your character def sounds like a chaos marine" and thats pretty much what ive been dealing with for the 3 sessions with this group, as stated ive else wise never played with them before and am pretty much not impressed too say the least
  4. thanks very much guys for your posts yeah the main reason i had'nt already left was because of my friend yes "at last forgot" its a very awkward situation too be in and "siranui" thank you i was already considering something simular too your suggestion about saying too the GM about reporting them too the inquisition and if he was'nt up for that just walking from the group, my thoughts on it was as a battle sister palantine a throne agent of the ordo hereticus reporting them too the ordo hereticus and my fellow sisters and letting the GM decide how they were punished for there behaviour, or if the GM wouldnt do so just walking from the game. i think your right on them just picking on me/my character for being different, and thank you for agreeing with me that they arent even doing so for in game in character good character reasons, because a marine especially a deathwatch one wouldnt behave in such a manner, also i must say you sound like a very good GM, you have an informed knowing of the 40k universe and a nice sense of fairness and thanks for the support "fresnel and balodek" takeing your words on ill have a word with the groups GM over the weekend if no joy then ill just walk from that group
  5. hello all ive posted a few times on the dark heresy forums this is my 1st time here so hey anyways im a girl player who loves the adepta sororita and recently my friend began running a death watch game in our local university gameing society at 1st i didnt wanna join in because well id not much interest in playing the game im more of a heresy fan but my friend had massive problems with the fact that his group which started at 4 quickly wickled down too 2 and 1 occasional so i decided id join in ta help out too which i made a sororita for death watch useing the guidelines which FFG give in general and blood of the martyr on power wise we were a lil bit worried but it wasnt an issue tbh which youd come too expect the sororita pretty much being the female version of the marines in fact power wise we found i did less ranged damage way more melee especially when faith powered up, also haveing influcnce etc and tons of talents meant in many ways i was a bit more powerful but it balanced out and id pretty much the same higher armour etc but less wounds example of the balance however an issue has arisen and im not quite sure what too do about it namely the 3 marines have pretty much turned on my battle sister for no real reason and are constantly threatening her which is putting me in a tough spot because a battle sister wouldnt tolerate that but at the same time all 3 of the marines are at it at the same time heres the reasons why the storm warden is takeing the attitude that im ordo hereticus and not ordo xenos and thus am an enemy, whom he wont cooperate with and is constantly threatening the dark angel is takeing an attitude of (even though he is meant too be deathwatch) im a dark angel your inquistion related i hate the inquistion, finally the libarian is takeing the attitude of that because he is a libarian and a marine that he is a god and hates all who arent marines however all 3 are takeing an attitude of that they hate anyone who is not a space marine even a sororita (note as a sister i could be playing that i hate the libarian for being a psyker but am not as im assuming the 2 types of psyker a sister would like would be an inquistitor and or a librarian anyway the main point is this is putting me in a very uncomfortable spot and so id like some advice on what you guys think i should do but also too my knowledge i know not all chapters accept the emperors become a god but all venerate him and space marines are meant too be honourable heroic and loyal too the emperium or am i wrong, ive been talking too the gm because in my opionon marines saying they hate the imperium and insulting man kind and hateing the human race and hateing the inquistion and hateing threatining a battle sister just because shes not a adeptus astarte, and well in general hateing anyone who isnt an astarte including loyal imperials and believing there gods and the pysker believing he is a god for being a psyker marine shouldnt they be gaining corruption for such renegade ways of thinking and behaveing????? a quote from the marines on tuesday too my charcter for example was this marine "shut up monkey your a monkey a thing merely a human being a pathetic plaything" my sister "i was merely suggesteing a possible stragedy" other marine "one of my brothers told you too shut up do so or we will all kill you and 3 on 1 arent very good odds no matter how good you think your faith powers are" my sister "and you dont think the ordo hereticus or my fellow sisters wouldnt have somthing too say about that??" 3rd marine "no because we will merely rid you with bolter fire and claim you died in battle" now bar my sheer discomfort in a game i didnt want too play and only joined too help the gm cause he is my best friend aside, you can see why my situation is very uncomfy and i dont know what too do about it because i cant see a battle sister takeing that and not trying too purge them but at same time knowing faith powers aside id probably die, or if she ws being smart wait and report them too the ordo herecticus and then bring her fellow sisters in at least equal number too deal with them but is it just me or are they or are they not acting like chaos marines not space marines????
  6. and yeah nimon ive worked out that the marines in DW being hero marines means yeah you'd be a palantine and both me and my main GM realised exactly what your saying that in truth shed be a killing machine in DW and in some ways better than her battle brothers
  7. too andrewm9 and sister calidia: yeah i have been thinking on it and do realise the sisters gear has been done and there more expensive advances the way they've been done for balancing puroposes and too be honest i dont have that much complaint that way my sister is pretty much a killing machine my main issue is just that with my 2 DH GM's im having too explain over and over what the sisters really are because not only have they not read any sororita book or codex or 40k lore they've not even read the sisters sections in the DH books which makes it very frustrating at times being in games GM'd bye people with no idea about a sister, with a sister character and of course me playing one but thankfully my core GM is coming around and finally listhening too me after showing him in black and white many book pages rather than arguing the point he is also a very "fluff" loveing GM and has said that the sisters power armour having made less than should be for balance is gonna be altered at rank 5 from being as is too being as should be so thats very cool especially as i didnt ask for that but as i said he is very into the game being accurate too the fluff mind you all in all i do love blood of the martyrs especially the new much better way they've done the faith powers i was just a bit disappointed that my 2 DH GM's were running DH and having a sister character without full knowledge of the sisters which meant i was constantly having too fill them in so too speak when personally as a GM myself if i run a game i arm myself with knowing everything i need too know
  8. hello all well this is my second post and i hope you enjoy it as a battle sister fan and a battle sister 40k army player and dark heresy character player, im finding the greatest problem that the sisterhood faces is ignorance 1. there seems too almost be this disturbing thing going on that people cannot accept that the battle sisters are as good as there battle brothers haveing divine faith powers over genetic enhancements 2. the sisters role and position i have tons of arguments and debates with both dark heresy gms i know for a few reasons 1. they cannot grasp that the marines in death watch arent normal marines they are space marines of exceptional skill taken for such in short they would be the old 40k space marine option of hero, hence why a palantine is meant too be there equal, because sisters had most dear option living saint, then canoness, then palantine, just like marines have chapter master, captain, then hero, the marines in deathwatch are hero lvl battle brothers but the main argument that occurs is the role of the sisters the orders militant of the sisterhood are noted in "codex witchunters page 11" as i quote "thee chamber militant of the ordo hereticus" "purity sweeps threw imperial organisation's persecuting apostate clerics challenging renegade space marine chapters, acting as wardens on the black ships, and guarding the ordos most dangerous prisoners" they are also listed as the chamber militant of the ecclesiarchy or as its other wise known the adeptus ministorum with the following duties as detailed in the same section "guarding holy sites, escorting hiearchs, ensuring citizens fill coffers at collection time, when the ecclesiarchy declares a war of faith it is the exclusively female adepta sororitas that provide the standing fighting forces" (note im not even getting into the extensive duties of the other sisters) im finding the constant explaining of what adepta sororita do and that they are so equal in ability too there battle brothers too the point they take down renegade marines frustrating at best, my one disapointment in FFG was at last in blood of the martyrs we finally got sororita power armour rules, but sadly the way theyve done the armour and the godwyn bolter has feed into this space marine supremacy complex example in page 19 of codex witchhunters sororitas power armour is described as being exactly like the marine version bar not haveing a black carapace and not having the same level of strength augmenting, but yet sororita armour in BOTM is described as light power armour bar the chest for no reason when the books else wise say its as good as marine power armour, 2ndly the core heresy book power armour has +20 str the battle sisters is better haveing only +10 but +5bs and a breather and bracers and com link etc, but are we then too believe that the power armour in core heresy is marine power armour and that the subject mystically gains the black carapace with its +20 str augmenting in my opionion the battle sister armour in BOTM is well done and utterly accurate having the breather and com link and targeter as you'd expect in military issue armour and not haveing the black carapace thus only +10 str, but theres no reason it isnt 8 all round in fact it should be when in every book its detailed as marine lvl power armour bar the lack of the black carapace 2ndly however this also begs the question on buyable armour in the book surely then it should be +10 not 20 str as its not carapaced either unless its a marine wearing it also the godwyn bolter once again in codex witch hunters and all other books etc as being i quote "superior performance in comparison of other weapons of its class" in other words it is described just like the astartes bolter as being a better superior bolter, so why in FFG is it detailed as lesser than a marines bolter better than a basic one, as theres no reason for this it doesn't say such in fact it says the sororitas bolter just like the astartes bolter is a better bolter than anyone elses, but it doe's not say they are inferior too a marines in fact it says the sister's gear wise are the only other army in the imperium too have as good gear as the marines (wel youd find that when gw had finally decided the emperor was a god and just wanted too make a joan of arc, paladin based female version of the space marines) and thats i think what people need too get threw there wee heads which is annoying me Games workshop wanted too make a paladin aka a divine powered warrior chosen from birth female version of the marines and thats what the sororita are and its like everything you cant argue what something is with the guys who invented it i suppose this is a bit of rant post but what am i too do people just wont listhen when i try too explain what battle sisters are i almost find it like bashing my head off a brick wall the problem is these 2 are heresy gm's 1 doesnt understand that the sisters not even just the battle sisters but the sisterhood as an overall do much more than work for the ecclesiarchy and are also the chamber miltant of the ordo hereticus and vast other duties the other being a mrine player cannot contemplate that the sisters are basicly female marines with faith powers instead of enhancements made bye the emperor as a god made as paladins instead of being made bye the emperor as a man made as super soldier's the worst part of it all is that as a sister player i should be likeing marines in all such games instead i find myself wanting too make the point bye killing me a bunch of space marines maybe i can avert harming loyal marines bye finding a chaos marine players or talking my gm into sending us against such heretics or maybe i could just go off and find the dark angels after all they've sadly over the years been pretty much made chaos marines in waiting but too be honest else wise i find my main gm's gming of heresy very good sadly the other one insists on random generation of everything which means one could end up playing something you'd just not want too play but the main problem is sadly the only FFG game with marines in it is deathwatch and people dont seem too be able too get there not normal marines there rank 9 marines if compared too dark heresy characters anyway sorry about this rant but as its an FFG subject of dark heresy relation i figured id put it on the forums and see what people thought "FOR THE EMPEROR"
  9. and yeah 8 spider ty i have finished the book its too be honest utterly awesome one of the best ones theyve done so far i havent read the grey night novel no but ill see if i can pick it up in my local games workshop
  10. in reply too 8 spider: ty for pointing that out this also replys too adeptus b and the resulting conversion there 1stly i as a female gamer would say i appreciate adeptus b's comments as a whole 1stly he says a true point most games are defacto male which is why i was saying 40k deserves a pat on back for haveing more mixed gender and defacto male and female charcters but 2ndly as 8 spider points out the new sororita book actually gves you rules for useing battle sisters in death watch games so that answers a lot of the debate any girl gamer wanting too play a female space maine can just play a sororita which ever since there conception have been female marines but with faith powers rather than genetic augments also many people do over look where as sororita are like paladin nun warrriors of the emperor marines are monk super solider warriors of the emperor in fact just too draw the parrels closed "battle brother - battle sister"
  11. too adeptus b, actually if u read this post weve been talking about the fact the sororita are the female space marines and saying about how it works like this in death watch uve just space marines in other words just hard boys, but in heresy uve the sororita aka hard girls too 8 spider: yars i got the download for the palantine also my blood of martyrs arrived and im in love i like what theyve done the one in inquistion handbook is a sorta generic sister her training interupted bye serving a inquistor where as the ones in blood are more specialised sisters girls whose training hasnt been so distrupted and are more dedicated too there sororita careers and thus are basicly members of the sisters sub groups more like there being requisitioned too a inquisitor rather than taken bye him i found the new way of doing a sororita quite cool being that rather than a generic sister you can play a dedicated full true member of one of the sub orders and too be honest in all 4 i found this much more accurate too the sisters i also like that the famoulous got into the book because me and my freinds were always saying she should be but too pick up on a idea it would be interesting just in the name of fairness if FFG did a heresy version of the space marine starting from scout maybe rather than veteran as is in deathwatch and did a deathwatch sororita thatd be quite cool well wrath def isnt a sin for imperials note in the faith powrers theres a whole section of them called the emperors "wrath" and pride is def not a a sin now that i remember there was actually one of the old 40k quotes from an inquisitor saying that not haveing pride in your work for the emperor was a sin but too inquisitor sapiens: it might be relative as in wrath agaisnt the enemies of the imperium is ok but wrath on a fellow loyal imperial isn't pride in working for the emperor is ok but pride in ones appearance or self image isn't
  12. thank you very much 8 spider for the support and compliment and i loved the very interesting part of what would constitute sins for imperials and sororita your right the 7 deadly sins arent even a good basis as wrath for the emperor and pride in his work would actually be virtues in the imperium i also actually recall from many works about the ordo hereticus and thus the sisters that many traits we would see as bad are actually good in the imperium and thank you for what you said about my subject im glad people are finding it a good point hopefully my blood of the martyrs will be with me tommrow so i should be updateing on that
  13. im glad too see so much reply's and i agree with most of them too be honest too the laughing god: ive read everything on sororita lore and its stated as basicly nun warriors with links too and being raised bye various elements of the imperium they are quite well educated however ive never seen anything about punctuation and did make point of my dislexia (point my mac book pro actually helps a lot with this as bad as it is without this machine id be far worse in grammer spelling etc) that said i utterly agree with trodamus FFG deserve a lot of credit there have been other attempts at warhammer and 40k rpg games and none of them have held a flag near what FFG has done in reply too 8 spider im still waiting for my copy of the martyrs too arrive so cant overly comment but from what i do know of the repentia they are a bit strange there sisters who loose there faith powers or have them changed and take on a sort of suicide oath too die in battle but in regards too the sins from what i remember the sins dont even actually have too be real they can be imagined sins in essence its not that a sororita has failed the emperor and become a repentia its that she feels that she has however you are right she can leave the repentia life at any time and return too rejoin her main sisterhood in fact saint celestine was a repentia who became a saint so i guess its more a feeling that a sororita can gain and must purge before she can return too her main sisterhood but also the repentia vow is actually seen as revered in the sisterhood "seeking only too die in the emperors service" ill most certainly be reading the bit of the book myself and might have more for you after
  14. i dunno i do kinda like the bobs and makeup and inbuilt corset and breastcups are kind of sexy but elese wise i do agree there a very none sexual nun like lot really i can imagine if a sororita was asked on a date the poor would be asker might end up in hospital lol
  15. hello all too be honest this is a light hearted post, i just wanted too thank FFG and congratulate them on dark heresy, especially on the adepta sororita 1stly the battle sisters play a great role in the game in short there the paladin they fill a much needed gap in groups because the sisters give us a character who is so faithful that she has no doubt she also however displays faith powers which show the emperor is now a god which helps us imagine the 41st imperium better but 2ndly the sororita fill a much needed combat role that of a space marine or sister a tough lethal uncompromiseing warrior dedicated and resolute and hard as hell but finally im very glad the battle sisters have gotten such attention in heresy books as they have 1stly because the sisters are the chamber militant of the ordo hereticus and the milita and chamber militant of the ecclesiarchy and thus should be within the game thats very much so focused on that particular branch of the inquisition but 3rdly i am a girl gamer ive been playing various roleplaying games since i was 12 years old, and its nice too see a femine charcter class within the game pople often mistake that because girls want too do girlie things that this means we dont want too game etc which is most certainly not the case its more that we want too play more femine options what i like most about the sororita is that they fill that void but not in a weak way the battle sisters are litterally female space marines but with faith powers rather than augmentations, as a ground force rather than a space force the entire concept of them is awesome warrior nun paladins of the emperor i will be honest despite my long playing of warhammer 40k since a young girl i never touched the imperium until the battle sisters finally got made because before the sisters there was no army a girl could really associate with only the eldar and elves had such forces and i was over joyed after years of rumours too finally see the sisters thats pretty much the focus for this topic as a girl gamer i am just saying that i think its fantastic that the 40k universe has a strong femine character type like the sisters for girls too play with and would love too hear your thoughts on this and 2ndly in just thanking fantasy flight for the sheer spotlight focus they have given the sisters both because of how utterly cool the battle sisters actually are and im glad thats not been lost in dark heresy and because there a class that litterally is made for the game and im actually glad it was recognised that the battle sisters suited dark heresy more than the space marines and that they got there own game but finally because the sororita really are a great class for girl gamers too play and im so glad that dark heresy has given them so much attention you might wonder why im ranting on its because in truth many games fail too give or even consider girl gamers in there development and also because when i heard of dark heresy i was hesitant i had the same worries as many gamers that it would just be a game of worship the space marine which happens a lot too be honest i personally feel the marines get far too much attention all in all they are a small force in fact bye comparison a chapter 1000 marines is much smaller than a part of a sororita order being broken down into large convents a 1000 each and smaller ones with 200 each and then there smallest being about 100 sororita let alone the sheer size of the imperial guard but the 40k universe seems too be wakeing up and finally giveing attention too the other armies of the emperor who bye far and in large are much more important in the imperium's function than the marines who are small strike force called in only for sudden strike missions where forces need too be transported droped and deployed right into the heart of the enemy im very impressed FFG didnt fall into any such trappings and have focused on everything else and left the marines there own personal game dedicated too the kind of missions the space marines actually get sent on in other words SPACE MISSIONS hulks and sudden strike orbital drops the reason why is because others have given many 40k fans a miss conception that marines are used on the front lines or battle fields of the emperor all the time where as in truth the battle sisters are much more used in these fights and they would be used sparingly when compared too the imperial guard the truth is the marines are rarely used only in certain situations like ive stated above so id just like too say GOOD GOING FFG i do note that some other gamers ive played with actually find it almost confuseing that in dark heresy the main hard as nails super warrior fighting character type class is the battle sister showing in truth just how rare it is when we girls get ta crush skulls thankfully my own gaming group is very versed in the 40k lore and is very gender mixed and thus we dont have such issues we know the sororita are basicly female marines without genetic augmentations and instead with faith powers and that they suit the dark heresy game concept much better too show how good a thing this is and why both GW and FFG deserve a pat on the back for it we also bought deathwatch and our gm was at a bit of a loss because its well the space marine game but what happens when several of ur game group are girls and want too play girls he has actualy considered altering the deathwatch game adapting it with the heresy rules too use both space marines and sororita so both male and female gamers in our group can have gender options after all they are pretty much the same but different anyway i hope this 1st post didnt come off too long or silly final note (please forgive my spelling i am dislexic and have a spell corrector program on but it doesnt seem too catch every word or bit of grammer)
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