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Everything posted by TalosX

  1. Since @Tramp Graphics called me out, their are several passages in the canon novelizations of "Attack of the Clones" and "Revenge of the Sith" that are pertinent. Yoda was mentioned to have mastered all 7 forms, including stances and techniques. Yoda was also referred to as the grand-master of Ataru (though I'm pretty sure this was word play and not a real title). Now, these comments are in-character dialogue. Meaning that they are only the opinions/beliefs of the speakers. As for Yoda's actual skill, in Attack of the Clones, Dooku initially thought he had surpassed his master in lightsaber skill. However, Dooku's internal monologue quickly changed once the fight began. After the first attack, Dooku was pressed back into a full defensive fight. The book actually says Dooku knew he was fighting for his life, and that he had to escape Yoda before his former master cut him down. During Yoda's duel with Palpatine, the Sith realized from the very beginning that Yoda was the better duelist. It's why he took every opportunity to increase the distance between the two. Because Palpatine was far more confident in engaging Yoda using his force powers. Despite what may or may not have changed about Yoda since Legends material was made non-canon. It's still made quite clear that Yoda is an incredibly skilled duelist.
  2. It's close enough! It is a GM's duty to ensure all players enjoy themselves. Allowing Saber Swarm to be used at range is a very solid way to turn the strongest melee offensive specialization, into the strongest offensive specialization at any range. So I'll state again, it will not be permitted if I'm the GM.
  3. I'm not arguing whether it does or doesn't say you can use Saber Swarm with Saber Throw. I'm saying it's not permitted at my table. Part of being a good GM is knowing when to reign in certain mechanics. Saber Swarm is essentially Auto-Fire with a lightsaber. Most people already agree Auto-Fire is broken. Using Saber Swarm this way, is essentially Auto-Fire with Breach! That's massively broken, and will not be permitted if I'm the GM.
  4. I wouldn't permit it at my table. Saber Swarm is already extremely powerful, with it's one weakness being the user needs to be Engaged. Which isn't a big a weakness due to Hawk Bat Swoop!
  5. As I said, I have gone back and forth on the Inner Peace talent. For the moment, I've decided it's needed to offset the at least some of the Conflict generated by Embrace Your Hate. However, the Vaapad Control talent makes no sense for multiple reasons. First, Vaapad didn't exist in the Old Republic era. Second, Vaapad itself has more dark-side influences then standard Juyo (and should therefore be a conflict talent/talents). Third, relying on Destiny Point "flavor" for it's effects really messes with the Juyo Beserker's power. A light-side character can't effectively use Embrace Your Hate often without gaining a ton of Conflict, so they have to rely on Vaapad Control. However, that technique can be neutered by your party using Destiny Points, or the GM hording them. No other specialization has it's key talents tied to a resource the player has so little control over, and can really make the specialization not fun to play. Removing Vaapad Control and replacing it with a non-Conflict talent that doesn't rely on DPs is the easiest change to make. Also, you can't really say dark-side DPs are "just a GM resource" when Embrace Your Hate generates significant Conflict for using that resource. The devs clearly intend for dark-side DPs to be seen as the dark-side influencing the typical game.
  6. I mean, we have multiple out of character statements saying Windu created Vaapad. Not rediscovered or "uncovered"as you put it, but that he created it. Now if you want to discount that at your table, that's perfectly fine. I don't have any issues with Balance, and I still go back and forth on Inner Peace. After all, Juyo practitioners are said to have a really calm outward appearance to balance their inner emotions. At the moment, I'm leaning toward replacing Vaapad Control with Improved Parry. Many others have echoed similar statements. However, I asked what changes other people might make, not if I should make any changes. My minds already made up that at least Vaapad Control has to go, and potentially the Inner Peace talents as well.
  7. Yoda wasn't a practitioner of Vaapad (though he was a master of all 7 classic forms). The three Vaapad practitioners I mentioned are: Mace Windu, Sora Bulq, and Depa Billaba. Sora and Depa fell to the dark-side, but Depa was later redeemed to the light-side. Sora Bulq was killed later during the Clone Wars. As for how anyone could learn Juyo and the Vaapad variation, via holocrons. In Legends, Luke and his Jedi Order eventually rediscover several Jedi holocrons that provided complete records of each form. During an episode of the Clone Wars tv show, we see the holocron vault at the main temple with thousands of holocrons. It's completely feasible, and even likely, that Master Windu created a holocron with instructions on Vaapad. An interesting note, Vaapad's heavier use of emotions makes it even easier to fall to the dark-side then standard Form VII. In truth, talents associated with Vaapad should generate more Conflict then the normal Juyo talents. Not really a big deal, just interesting. Most of Palpatine's notes in "Path of the Jedi" are snarky comments, and hold little to no basis in fact. Rather, the fact that Palpatine is the only one who believes it heavily implies it's his personal opinion. As a fictional setting, we also have out of character knowledge about the setting. Yet there isn't a single statement about it being a Sith style other then Palpatine's remark. We've debated this point enough. I don't expect to change your point of view, nor will you be able to change mine. How bout we shake on it and call it a day?
  8. It's a rough but accurate description of the styles overall. I've practiced kenjutsu for the last 16 years, so I always enjoy discussing sword techniques. As you say, most Jedi had at least some skill in multiple forms. An example being; all younglings received basic Shii-Cho training. It provided basic attack and defense techniques that could be improved upon, or augmented by other forms after they became padawans. I'm curious if you've ever read the novelizations of the 2nd and 3rd movies? They provide some interesting perspectives that don't come across in the movies very well. In Attack of the Clones, Dooku actually thought he could defeat Yoda in their lightsaber duel. However, once the duel started, he quickly realized he was far outclassed by Yoda. The novel highlights that he was forced completely on the defensive and fighting for his life. In the Revenge of the Sith novel, Dooku is described as nearly in awe of Obi-Won's mastery of Form III. Obi-Won's defenses were so perfect, Dooku realized the only way to beat him was to use his greater command of the Force to remove him from the fight. Windu is noted for being critical of many people, himself most of all. He developed Vaapad, in his words "as an answer for his own weakness". Vaapad was less about technique, and more about a state of mind. It allowed the user to channel their darker emotions, love of battle and conflict in Windu's case, into their swordplay. Needless to say, channeling such emotions is dangerous. Two of the three Vaapad practitioners fell to the dark-side. You know, I've looked at several talents to possibly sub in, but for some reason I completely overlooked Improved Parry! Also, you're the first person to actually help with what I asked, so thank you for that. Juyo's always had negative connotations attributed to it. It is a highly aggressive form, that has also been noted as having more of it's practitioners fall to the Dark-side then any other form. That's probably why Cin Drallig limited it's practice to individuals of a specific temperament. Juyo needs that passionate aggression to truly shine, but the Jedi needs to have very fine control of that aggression to keep himself on the Light-side. An interesting note since you brought up KOTOR. It was mentioned in KOTOR 2 that Juyo was very strong against a single opponent, allowing you to eviscerate your opponent in a duel. Yet the FFG specialization has a Multiple Opponents talent that provides a bonus die when engaged by two or more opponents. Just one of those things that makes you think a bit.
  9. There is no canon or legends material anywhere that denotes it as a "Sith style". Darth Sidious called it that, but that was his opinion, nothing more. Both Yoda and Cin Drallig were the only masters of all seven forms during that time period. Neither considered Form VII a Sith style. Cin Drallig, the Jedi Battlemaster at the time, stated the style required a "certain temperament" because the key to Juyo was acknowledging you enjoyed battle. Cin Drallig was noted for only allowing hand-picked candidates to study Form VII, and usually after they had mastered several other forms. Another interesting fact was that Yoda once stated that throughout the millennia Form VII had several practitioners, but that Mace Windu was the first true master of the style. Considering Yoda's age and knowledge, such a statement carries a pretty heavy weight.
  10. I suppose that could be true from a certain point of view. You'd have to discount the facts that the form was developed by Jedi, and existed before the creation of the Sith. While I agree with you that not everyone will purchase every talent in the specialization, that doesn't fix my issue at all. Every specialization has 20 talents, and I'm not going to remove 3 without adding 3 back in!
  11. That's a fair question. The mechanics for Vaapad Control and Inner Peace don't make sense in the Old Republic era. Juyo has a troubled history because many of the Jedi who studied it fell to the dark side. The specialization has multiple Conflict causing talents to signify this problem. However, the "Vaapad" talent branch can completely negate those Conflict talents if used appropriately (which is very easy to do). For my Old Republic game, I want to return Juyo to it's roots. Meaning a strong offensive style that causes dangerous levels of Conflict! Despite what @Ghostofman thinks, my desire to change it has nothing to do with the name "Vaapad". If that was the issue, I'd just change it to "Juyo Control" or something similar. Much as I plan to change the names of the "Jedi Padawan" and "Jedi Knight" specializations in Rise of the Separatists. Because I didn't need questions like: "do I have to take Jedi Padawan before I take Jedi Knight?" EDIT: Lets hope the yet unnamed Jedi specialization isn't something like "Jedi Master". That'll just add to the confusion!
  12. So I'm preparing to start a new game in the Old Republic era, around the start of the re-emergence of the Sith. I've had a player ask an interesting question, how would Juyo differ in this time. Personally, I'd remove Vaapad Control and replace it with a third Embrace Your Hatred talent. Then I started to wonder if the Inner Peace talents might change as well? While they do help manage Conflict, they are also very beneficial to Vaapad Control! So I'm still considering what does need to change. I thought it'd make an interesting topic for the community to discuss. How would you all change Juyo for an Old Republic game?
  13. 1) Influence absolutely does have the rules for social checks baked into it's text. The Control Upgrade states that any Coercion, Charm, Deception, Leadership, or Negotiation roll can be made adding Force Dice. Those dice can then be spent to increase successes or advantages. So you're completely wrong on this one. 2) The old adage of "two wrongs don't make a right" really applies here. Just because something else is really strong and/or broken, doesn't mean you should break other aspects of the game. With that line of thinking, I could destroy the entire system making it completely un-playable. 3) I wasn't arguing on the specific design ethos's of the past Star Wars RPG systems. I was pointing out that every official game developer, who all had at least a tiny modicum of oversight from Lucas Arts, have all been unanimous in drawing a clear distinction between force choking and moving and object. Their basic premise may be telekinesis, but their clearly a line being drawn between the two. 4) Yeah, this is entirely a personal correlation on your part. I then could say: your eardrums and eyelids are items, so I can use Move to pinch them shut rendering you completely blind and deaf right!? Don't take offense. I actually don't oppose your idea. I just feel their are as many reasons not to allow your change, as their are to approve it. I'm actually rather conflicted on the idea of using Move to choke someone. I have issues with Bind in general. Everything it does it technically a part of telekinetic application of the force (aka Move). Honestly, I think Move should have another Control Upgrade or two to allow you the user to freeze someone and choke them. Force powers are already a huge XP sink, so I've always disliked that Bind was pretty clearly stepping on Move's toes.
  14. I see this being handled a couple of ways. First, blow a whole in the ship (preferably in a way that looks like some type of accident), tow it to a port somewhere and claim found it adrift and call it legitimate salvage. If you off'd the entire crew, no one's going to be able to contest it. As you said, you'll have to pay a few fees for registration/bureaucracy but that's about it. Oh, and you'll need to patch the whole in the ship. Second, grease the palms of someone in BoSS to re-register the ship under your name. Comes with the difficulty of finding a BoSS agent who won't report you. Third, pay a skilled slicer to alter the transponder and register the ship as your own.
  15. I actually had a player in my Exalted game tell me the same thing tonight. We talked for a bit about it. I asked her about what her characters motivations were, why specifically she chose the abilities and charms (inherent magical powers) she did. Once she reconnected with her character concept, we looked for ways to include her interests into what's already going on in-game. Example: she chose a lot of abilities/powers that make her great with animals. Yet she hasn't really used them outside of her one animal familiar. Her abilities make it easy for her to walk right up to a pride of wild lions and have them fully domesticated/trained within a few days. Two of the other characters run a smuggling/trade business. I suggested she work with them to create a new branch of the business for dealing with exotic fauna that she could charm, breed, and train. So far, she loves the idea. In short, I've found that talking about the characters original concept to be a big help, especially the characters interests and motivations! In my experience, once a player remembers what excites them about the character, they start to involve themselves more in the story.
  16. Actually the RAW can already handle using Influence to convince someone they're being choked. Influence's basic power lets you stress the mind of your opponent causing some Strain damage (Strength Upgrade increases it a bit). Just narrate it as your opponent thinks they're choking and that's what is causing the stress. Even though no real damage is occurring.
  17. I wouldn't say there's "no reason not to allow this". There's actually several I thought up within about 20 seconds of reading your post. First, it's clearly not intended. If it was, the rules to execute the attack and damage would be baked into one of the Control upgrades (like they are for Bind). Second, Move is already a very useful power, giving it more versatility only makes it even stronger. Third, using the force to choke someone has always been a separate ability from standard telekinesis in both D20 and WEGS D6. Fourth, the text of the Control Upgrade says you gain the ability to perform fine manipulation of held items as though you were using your hands. While you could definitely argue that as being able to choke someone, its not what comes to my mind when I think of "fine manipulation". I get the impression its more like when you see padawans put their lightsaber together using the force. Even the example it provides is operating a control board. Now, I'm not opposed to you or any other GM ruling that Move can be used to choke someone. If it works for your game, then that's great! I only brought up the above arguments because you said their was "no reason not to allow it". I would posit, that's not quite true. Side question I'm curious about: do you still use Bind in your games? I ask because Move could easily be used to pin someone in place, so I was just curious. If you don't use Bind, I'm actually very curious how you handle the binding aspect of Move?
  18. I would recommend taking a look at Makashi Duelist. It has even more Parry talents then Soresu, as well as passive bonuses (Duelist's Training & Defensive Training), Resist Disarm, and Feint. Also, Makashi was specifically designed for lightsaber dueling, and makes more sense for a droid programmed to train Jedi to fight Sith. Lastly, Makashi was favored by many of the Separatists of that era. It was the primary form for Count Dooku and Asajj Ventriss, and even General Grievous used aspects of Makashi because he was trained by Dooku. Shii-Cho Knight is another really good one. It only has a single XP-tax talent of 10xp. It also includes just as many Parry talents as Soresu, more passive bonuses (Multiple Opponents, Defensive Training), Quick Draw, Second Wind, and Natural Blademaster. Since Shii-Cho was based on traditional swordsmanship techniques, it's the simplest and likely easiest to use without actually having the ability to use the Force.
  19. Oh I'm not debating that the shot doesn't hit. Just that I didn't see shots deflecting off anywhere. Probably got to hung up on "deflect". Oddly Star Wars shields aren't all that different from Star Trek shields. They stop the blast, but still do at least some minor damage. However, when a ship has no shields at all, it's pretty quickly torn to pieces!
  20. Wookieepedia claims their are two types of shields, not several. Also, there is no canon statement anywhere in the movies, Disney-approved books, or cartoon series that back this up. It's a holdover from EU/Legends material. Just watched the Droidikas in Phantom Menace. Blaster bolts reflected by the Jedi hit their shield and dissipate. There is no deflection. The large Gungan shields dissipate any blast that hits them just like the Droidikas. The smaller hand-carried shields do deflect blasts, but that scene is the only instance of that occurring. No ships shields have ever been depicted as deflecting energy. I would say it's more likely the Gungan hand-carried shields are special, and not the norm.
  21. Shields actually have several names in canon: shields, deflector shields, ray shields, etc. I'm curious what you mean by "the movies show shots being deflected by the deflector shields on numerous occasions"? If you mean energy bolts hit the shields and are nullified/dissipate, then sure. I can't recall ever seeing any attacks deflected off a star ships shields in the movies.
  22. Didn't hear about that, but that sounds like the White Wolf I know and want to punch in the "private bits"!
  23. I suppose it's a matter of preference. However, Lucas himself did direct movies 1-3, so it is canon. I see it as limited special effects for movies 4-6, similar to how Star Trek movies of the same era didn't portray shields as actual energy barriers. It was always the intent of the developers, but to costly to do back then. Now though, CGI makes proper energy barrier-style shields very cost effective and simple to do. I don't fault anyone though for having a different perspective. It's a fantasy/scifi setting. Imagination and creativity is par for course! I've recently been wondering something. Do we ever see a torpedo stopped by a shield? If a fighter can pass through a shield, is it possible torpedoes do as well? That would certainly makes torpedoes significantly more useful, especially against large capital ships with powerful shields. Torpedoes would be the go to weapon for medium to long ranges against capital ships, while getting in close gets fighters under the shield to hit the ship directly. Just a thought, not sure if it holds up to what we see on screen or in books (EU/Legends or Disney's new canon books).
  24. Actually the lack of a "bubble" shield on the Falcon is a constraint of limited special effects at the time of the original trilogy. In a Phantom Menace, when Anakin takes the fighter into the enemy ship, he activates his shields and it is portrayed as a field around the ship that completely stopped the small arms fire of the the enemy droids. It was also portrayed this way in the EU/Legends material. We also see the rebel cruisers shields in TLJ as a bubble that completely stops the enemy's cannons. So FFGs portrayal of shields is actually pretty inaccurate. Though I'm not sure how I'd fix it in the current system. A side note, in TLJ, fighters could apparently get close enough that they were under a capital ships shield. This would make close range strikes by fighters a true double-edged sword. They can do damage directly to the ship, bypassing the shield, but would be at threat from numerous anti-fighter turrets!
  25. That's not my intention either. But so many other schools are better at duels at the moment... it really makes me wonder what the devs were thinking.
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