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Everything posted by Siranui

  1. lurkeroutthere said: Yes but by that logic the only reason the Codex astartes exists is so that the protagonist Ultramarine can show what a rebel they are by breaking it. It wasn't logic, but an observation. If a player wishes to highlight a conflict in their roleplay, that's fine. But seeing the Ad Mech as more important the the Chapter is going to be very much a minority opinion amongst Tech Marines.
  2. ak-73 said: You don't compete with the NPCs, Siranui, you compete against your team-mates, aka I don't need to outrun the monster behind us, I only need to outrun my party. Ah... but arms races and auctions only work if everybody plays ball! If the players *all* decide to ignore combat improvements, they are free to spend all their points elsewhere with no *real* loss of effectiveness. But... like *that* would ever happen!
  3. The Black Templar space marine battles novel also features a Techmarine who happily ignores the whims of the Ad Mec to break out some planet-saving tech.
  4. So it's simply a degree of empathy and affection for a non-Astartes, rather than love, as some has said. Riiiiight.
  5. I certainly agree that the idea of an elected leader works perfectly within the scope of the game. Players actively ordering others around is boorish, and elective leadership reins that in. ak-73 said: But that's not how 40K works. The Space Wolves are a proud chapter and have their own traditions and I don't think they are thinking all that highly of the Codex. The have an oral tradition and don't understand the written tradition. I suppose in the eyes of most Sw the other brother should just man up and have an ale. It's how the Deathwatch works, though. Astartes are screened and selected because they have that certain something that makes them suitable. Part of that is going to be the ability to compromise. The Ultra is going to have to work outside the Codex, and the Wolf within it; the Templar will have to tolerate the Psyker, et al.
  6. Being meta... ultimately any XP spent on combat stuff is slightly moot, given that GMs set up fights to be as hard as they want them to be. Ultimately, every RPG is like running on a treadmill, because combats never really get 'easier' unless the GM wants them to! 20th level D&D characters seldom meet for orcs and a half-ogre! Anyhow... that aside... yes, it is worth it, but more advances obviously give reduced returns. +5WS might be a small percentile increase for a melee character, but it's a dice roll that he will be making three times a round! Ultimately, 80%+ of the rolls an Assault Marine ever makes will be WS tests. So a 5% increase in those is worth vastly more than 10% or even 20% on anything else. That said... I like a good spread of abilities, rather than just 'stacking' a character in one area.
  7. ^This. It gets a bit lame when players constantly say 'going for a headshot', and he extra GM admin to record stun is annoying. Basically, your players are looking for a mechanical advantage. They also probably won't like the tables being turned. Nothing is more frustrating for a player than missing their turn. If you want to illustrate the point, then I'd recommend having a bunch of Eldar/Tau snipers who stunlock the PCs constantly, from 500m away! That should put them off! Instead, point out the other benefits of called shots: Safely shooting into melee, bypassing cover, less armoured locations... there really are a lot of good reasons to use called shots, but 'Called shot: head' is not really one of them until a foe's wounds are out.
  8. Cutting back briefly... where in the Ragnar books is this 'falls in love with...' thing? Because I've chatted to a few people who have read the book and they all said "W.T.F?!!!!"
  9. Chapter. Definately. Even the Iron Hands. They might like machines, but ultimately loyalty is to Chapter: The people they are surrounded by and have been for all bar five years of their adult lives. Plus there's all that hypno indoctranation.
  10. peterstepon said: Bear in mind though, that a billion soldiers sounds like a lot, but spread over the galaxy, it dillutes to insignificance. The Imperial Guard is like the Russian army, lots of soldiers thrown into the fires of war for little gain and with alot of losses expected because, well, there are lots of other people you can recruit to replace them. ...The Tau empire is like Israel. On paper Israel should have been crushed by the arabs ages ago given the sheer size and population of the Arab world compared to the Israel, however, history has shown the opposite. Israel won because it is a tiny country with superior weapons and doctrine (like the Tau) against an army of conscripts with poor logistics (like the Imperium). The tiny size of the Tau empire allow them to have compact and efficient supply lines to get re-enforcements into the battle quick while the Imperium must send troops vast distances to keep the war going (the book Savage Scars, highlighted this quite well). Except that doesn't really work. Either historically or in 40k terms. The Soviet army briefly threw troops at the problem... and then found that they had chronic manpower shortages and so stopped doing it. As cheap as life is; throwing troops away means that you eventually run out, and it's horribly inefficient. If you are shipping troops a thousand light years, then it pays to make sure that they are worth shipping, and that you spend more than a week training them! Front line troops are the minority in the military: There is a massive logistical chain that supports them. Each life might mean nothing, but if it took a thousand gallons of fuel and three months to get him/her to the warzone, then it's a chronic waste of materiel. The Imperium cannot afford to literally care nothing for its Guard, nor to send them under-trained into distant warzones. PDF: Sure; as a stop-gap. Guard are more likely to be well trained elite troops by our standards. The Tau are nothing like Israel. Israel survives as a State due to massive amounts of external assistance both in terms of diplomatic pressure on opposing elements, and in the supply of military hardware and technology and vast piles of cash from sympathetic corners. The Tau have none of that. Also: The Israeli army in not *against* conscripts: It *is* conscripts. Whereas its opposing elements are not conscripted and are there because of ideological beliefs. The Tau survive because the Imperium haven't got around to crushing them, due to other pressures. The Tau supply lines are short; not fast. Tau interstellar transport is of low standard by Imperium standards. It's just that they are tiny, and the lines are short. And their tactics are not 'superior', simply different. All tactics and battles essentially are based on one of two concepts: Maneuver or Attrition. One is not 'better' than the other. The Tau use the former type of warfare and excel at it. The Imperium uses Attrition Warfare and excels at that. I would also highly dispute that Imperium logistics are inferior to anyone else's. They can't be, given the size of the place and the efficiency with which it moves goods, troops and psykers around. The entire Imperium would fall apart without excellent logistics.
  11. Brother Praetus said: If you want a +2 to damage with ALL ranged attacks, take the Mighty Shot talent. Adding Crack Shot along with that makes killing easier. -=Brother Praetus=- Yes, I got that. My point is that the talent is poor value mechanically, and that can be moderated by allowing the +2 to add after any critical-reducing effects.
  12. Eh? 'Treat as taking both hands to wield' is not a bunch of extra rules. It's actually a far simpler and elegant solution that 'increase Req requirements, treat both weapons as the given stat-line, can be used to dual wield, but you only get the bonuses if you use both of them'! Also; what other Ultramarines Relics do you consider to be good for a low cost, out of interest?
  13. Bolt of Change said: That said I don't think that Space Wolves give a **** about the codex. In this case, that's the wrong attitude for the Wolf to have. If he's in charge of a bunch of guys who DO give a **** about the Codex, then he needs to learn that, understand that, and work with that. Otherwise, he's not suited to lead them. cf: If I were a proponent of a specific religion, but all my staff were rigid and pious followers of another religion, would I be a good manager if I vocally never gave a **** about their religion, bad-mouthed it, and never bothered to learn about their culture's way of doing things? No: I'd be an arrogant moron, unfit to lead them.
  14. Kshatriya said: I just see it as a little punitive. *shrug* Seems to me like a good set for any melee-defense-oriented smurf, especially if you don't care to really two-weapon attack with the poinard, but also a decent thing for an Assault Marine to stack on with other WS/parry bonuses to get even better. And just to note - combat shields sit on the upper arm and don't take up a hand slot (unless I missed some errata) so you could wear one as well, though I probably wouldn't give any more bonus for doing so. I don't see 20 Req for a slightly inferior power sword that grants an amazing talent and +20 balance as punitive, given that a normal power sword is 20 Req. Whereas I see 20 Req for a pair of slightly inferior power swords which can both be attacked with *and* provide an awesome talent *and* +20 to parry ridiculously under-priced. So, yes: It would be a house rule; but one that common sense dictates to me. As written, they are excellent for *any* Ultramarine who has two free hands, because they grant WoS, which is otherwise unobtainable for any save Assault Marines, *and* a massive parry bonus. Even not allowing the off-hand attack, they are staggeringly good value. Combat shields don't require a hand, but they'd be attached to the forearm, not the upper arm. You can't actively parry with a shield attached to your upper arm. But the bonus would not stack, because you specifically need to be parrying with an item to gain a bonus from it.
  15. Don't forget that by rights, the whole XP that the marine gains represents them working as a team, with a bunch of strangers. I think it's mentioned somewhere. The 'use other's Patterns' thing is near the end of RoB, and also represented by 'Brothers of Blood' distinctions.
  16. It's mentioned in the main rule book, I believe, as well as a few other canon sources. Most marines only have hazy memories of their time before being a marine, and no emotional attachment to it. It's like someone else's dream, essentially. I think it's mentioned that it's a side-effect of the hypno-training.
  17. Kain McDogal said: but by RAW they make poor Scouts compared to a Raven Guard. Whoa! Like heck they do! Scouts are eyes and ears. Scouts are not ninja attack-bots. And the Space Wolf is better at scouting that the Raven Guard. Ravens get the stealth skills, the stealth re-rolls and bonuses and get to do it in power armour. Wolf scouts get stealth skills, stealth re-rolls, perception skills and perception re-rolls. They are better at scouting, and really just as good at sneaking when not in PA, to my mind.
  18. TormDK said: Hello all! Having just purchased the First Founding book I noticed that there's the option for purchasing Honour Blades. The text notes that you're buying a broadsword, and a poniard blade set, which grants you additional defensive bonuses. (+30 parry, and an additional parry from the Wall of Steel talent) So my questions are as follows : 1: Based on the description, the stats for the weapon set is based on the broadsword (Since the Poniard is the parry blade) - and as there's no real dual wielding? E.g the Poniard is just there to look pretty when attacking, but comes into play during defense? 2: Signature wargear, and the Honourguard Elite advance would upgrade both blades? (Not that it matters I suppose if #1 is true) 1) Yup. that's my take. It's a two weapon set but the shorter blade is used purely defensively, and is what gives the wall of steel and parry bonus. With just the main blade, those are lost. I'd give combat blade stats for it if someone wanted to use the small blade offensively, but they then cannot use the wall of steel or +20 parry bonus. 2) Yup. It's not well-pitched in the text at all, so really does need clarification.
  19. AluminiumWolf said: I think you can justify any speed you like from the seconds of the Iron Man suit to most of a day as servomechanisms are intricately connected and blessed by hand. I don't think Stark would want it put on like that if there was a catheter involved....
  20. Based on experience with actual armour, diving equipment and other safety kit... an hour. At least. With somneone helping. I'd perhaps add more if it was being done with the ceremony with which Astartes don wargear. I'd probably look at it being about a two and a half hour job if at their Chapter's base of operations with full cerremony... In the field: maybe an hour in a pinch. Let's look at what you're doing and what the armour does for the Astartes Armour. Obviously the suit's main job. Donning armour has often been surrounded by ceremony in our own history. Warriors need their kit to keep them alive so tend to respect it. Even discarding that part of it, there are a lot of complex pieces, all of which need to fit and move perfectly, or they'll hamper the wearer. Each undergarment and piece goes on in the correct order and needs to be fully adjusted and fitted each time. After each piece goes on and is adjusted, you need to perform the full range of movement to ensure that it's right. That alone is time-consuming. With help, I wouldn't want to fight in armour that I'd spent less than 20 minutes putting on - at bare minimum. And after it's on, you again need to check full range of movement. You literally want nothing to hinder you or distract you. Let's call it 20 minutes, minimum. G-suit. Astartes regularly hit double-digit G figures: In drop pods, on jump-packs, and riding Thunderhawks. G-suits need to be carefully put on: A crease in an undergarment, or a bit of debris will cause heavy bruising under G-load, and needs to be avoided at all costs. Sure; your Marine can tough it out, but a heavy 8 inch bruise is still going to be something he wants to avoid, in case it affects performance. Air supply. You're going to want to check that! Twice! And have a buddy check it for you! When you are reliant on a life-support system, you need to make sure it works! And then you check that the back-ups work, too. There's no short-cuts possible. Vacuum and environmental seals. How long do you think it takes to put a space suit on? Are you going to use it before it's been checked? Every joint and seal needs to be carefully put together and checked. You examine every seal visually with care, and apply any lubricants that it might need. Once the suit is on, you'd want to do a full environmental integrity check. Because if it's not right: You're dead. Very optimistically, I'd say that was at least 20 minutes of work. Your clothes for the next month. Astartes wear their power armour for a long while in the field. If there's a stone in your boot, it's going to suck if you can't get it out for a month! Astartes are likely to want to get clean first, to remove all dirt (perhaps this is ritualised as 'cleansing'), and then they're going to want it all to fit perfectly. You don't want to rush it, because something that blisters you is going to effect performance. Medical stuff. Catheters need attaching, heart-rate monitors and that kind of thing need putting in place. This is at least a ten minute job, to my mind. Then all the medical computers need to be checked, and baselines taken. Wearable computer and communications. This stuff needs to be booted up! Cryptographic protocols for your comms gear need loading up and syncing. Autosenses and other gadgets need to boot up and run diagnostics.
  21. lurkeroutthere said: Moving on to your other points, your repeated goal is that no one could possibly understand space marines life, which is internally consistent at least because you lay it out it makes no sense and more so is at odds with quite a bit of the canon.You say that quite clearly it has to conform to your idea of special forces basic training, when that is seldom if ever held up as the case and moreso isn't very sustainable. Or put this way, in competetative sports and combat sports it's a commonly held axiom that you only get better by doing, by testing, training takes you only so far. After having a hundred years of field esperiene and rifle time i really don't expect your average space marine to get anything more from constant drill, they've literally done all the drills hundreds if not thousands of time, why wouldn't they after putting in the maintenance focus on other pursuits? You keep wanting to draw real world analogies that seem to be based only on Hollywood perception. At the end of the day the best humanity has to offer while being definition more driven then most still have other activities and must presumably love what they do enough that it supplants other areas of fullfillment. But even then I wonder if you could come up with stories of virginal super athletes or soldiers to support your theory. I think you've taken a throw-away comment and ran with it in totally the wrong direction. That's not what I meant at all. No-one can understand marine life? How so? Which part of the 'it's like playing an alien, but with a chance of actually roleplaying it 'right' because we can do it from a human perspective' line that I was taking led you to that? That's not what I was stating at all. Yes: It's hard for me to put my place in a totally driven athlete with chronic OCD and motivate myself to the same degree, but that's not the same as roleplaying a Marine during combat missions. Conflicts with canon? How? I really think you've got totally the wrong end of the stick. Why is that pace of training not sustainable for bio-engineered super-soldiers, who can literally kill their foes while taking it in turns with themselves to sleep? We've got a canon piece of material that specifically states that's exactly the pace that Marines train at while 'home'. Indeed: The only way you improve is against a better opponent. Fortunately, the Chapter is comprised of other uber-soldiers to train against. Unless you are *the* best at something, then there will be a training partner you can learn from. Furthermore the DW tomes themselves infer that there's 'always more to do'; for example, the Codex is pretty big and many Ultramarines and their successors commit it all to memory, in time. After a hundred years of training, there clearly is more to do within the scope of the game rules, as player characters continue to gain XP. Outside that context, then I suspect that there is still always more to learn from one's Brothers, which is why senior members take on leadership mantles, or become experts in chapter lore. Within the scope of this thread, I don't think that they run out of things to learn, so go wenching instead. 'Other persuits' certainly, but 'wenching' and 'looking after the kids' are not two of them! Virginal super athletes in the real world have no bearing and I don't need to tell tales of them to support my theory at all, because they are not genetically engineered super athletes who have ceased to be human and undergone years of psychological conditioning. Additionally; athletes and soldiers in our world generally mix with the population on a regular basis. They do not live monastic lives apart from the population. Space Marines can't go down the pub and meet hot boys/girls every evening. Although it's worth noting that -for example- monastic students of martial arts in China -for example- DID live pure lives, and soldiers undergoing training also live pretty pure lives because they're on-base/FTX/whatever 24 hours a day for long periods of time, so don't get a choice in the matter. One for Aluminium Wolf: In your play-group of macho and virile marines, are there any homosexual relationships in the group; either between players, or players and NPC Brothers? I
  22. Siranui

    New Necrons

    N0-1_H3r3 said: There are reasons both for the Tyranids to avoid Necron Tombworlds (Necron technology that protects their worlds from psychic observation/attack) and for the Necrons to actually attack the Tyranids (the Tyranids threaten to destroy everything that the Necron Overlords seek to dominate - indeed, the threat of the Tyranids is what drove the long-exiled Silent King of the Necrons back to the galaxy, only to find that his people hadn't yet fully awoken). So nobody noticed -in the history of the Imperium- that a whole slew of Imperial worlds had a psychic null-field over them? And the Eldar didn't at any time cotton onto this, either?
  23. ak-73 said: PS As I had predicted, the Raven Guard get pretty much the "opposite" of the SW's Wolf Senses for Solo Mode. **** good thing too. Yup. Kinda saw that coming. But I never saw Wolf scouts pulling stealth checks from their Perception stat and raking in all the Wolf Senses advantages with stealth checks coming! Every Chapter has to get a bit stereotyped and pigeon-holed in order to make them unique. Sometimes that comes at the cost of combat uberness, or some other aspect of the Chapter is glossed over. *** Really liking a lot of the new Solo modes, oaths and patterns. The Oaths in particular give a real 'feel' for the team-leaders Chapter, when they use them. The Imperial Fist one offering a *Fate Point* for the duration is interesting. For when you really, really need to assault a Titan and don't want to die, accept no substitutes! I also like the way that First Founding Chapters now have an edge over newer ones, both in the new Modes and with the amazingly generously priced relics (Salamander Cloak, anyone?). After RoB it was looking like 'new' Chapters could be better than their founders at times. I do like the obvious cost breaks on some iconic relics, and all obvious bases have been covered. Disappointed not to see a few more banners, though. Hellfire flamer, anyone? I wonder when the 'new' Chapters will be picking up their second tranche of abilities, to bring them into line with the 'original' first founding chapters. Hopefully FFG will be really generous, and will provide them in a Web Supplement. That'd be nice of them [Hint!]. Surprised not to see a few chapter-unique Deeds of some kind, but I'm not complaining, given the amount of crunch already present in the tome.
  24. Gokerz said: P.s. please try to actually read my posts next time. I never said Raven Guard aren't stealthy. I said there is a lot beyond being stealthy to them that the chapter mostly ignores or leaves out. There is. But to be fair, they only have a page and a half in which to give a brief outline of the entire Chapter to people who may never heard of them. I think it does a good job, given that limitation. I also can't blame FF for -when writing a game for GW, under their IP- using the most up-to-date source material (even if it is by Ward), rather than sticking their fingers in their ears and saying 'lalalala We Can't Hear You Matt'. There are more than enough nods to material that's 20 years old for them to let them off using up to date canon where appropriate, in my mind. We have all read far more about 'our' favourite Chapters than is presented in DW. We have also already mentally selected from amongst that probably conflicting material about them the version that we prefer and chosen to filter out other parts. Given DW's pitching low to inform those new to the game and the lack of space, and the fairness that they must treat Chapters in relation to each other, it's inevitable that *whichever* Chapter we favour, we'll probably dislike what has been said about it or mechanically implemented. Likewise we can all think of another ten talents/skills that 'should' be on the talent list, but can't really be for reasons of balance with other Chapters. Does it matter how much background about the Chapter has been missed out if you're the one playing the character and you know the background? Clearly not.
  25. Then I'm mistaken. My initial glance at the Arcane Weaponry section caused me to raise a bit of an eyebrow on the 'WTF' front, and I thought I'd read something about it being fairly uncommon. Given the enormous number of combinations of Arcane Weaponry though, I might not make everything the players want easily available, but that would be a house-rule and out of scope. It's really not useful for the UM tac. You're paying 3000xp for a the Iron Halo and either a random amount of requisition, or a random amount of Cohesion, and preventing yourself from taking any other Speciality. It's over-specialising, and the system doesn't reward you for it, for many of the same reasons that Champion is of little use to the AM (except instead of stuff costing tons, it's all stuff that you've already got!). I'd be interested to know what the norm for renown is. Maybe we are off-piste with high renown, but it hasn't seemed hard to get: A clean slate on every mission, combined with oath of glory and some heroic deeds has raked it in at not-quite-double-digits-per-mission. At 1000-1500ish XP per mission, we're getting 3-4 missions per Rank and it's not seemed a problem to get a little over 20 Renown per Rank. How does that compare to others? Kicking Renown into a group fund so that the Dev can have a Suspensor or whatever is nothing to be ashamed of, and benefits everyone. Still: If you're uncomfortable in spending XP to do that, then just buy an Adamantine Mantle: A brilliant piece of kit. Or strap a missile launcher on your Termie suit! Additionally, Relic Armour may *only* be obtained via Wargear, and can't just be 'rented' with Requisition, I believe. So for a 'normal' character who wants Relic armour, they're not going to be able to have another relic or 'big toy' without wiping out most of their Requisition. I'm not making a snide remark. I'm stating that if you play with a GM who is not generous with Elite Advance prices, uncomfortable with them, or does not like allowing Elite Advances for 'trademark' combat talents that aren't within your class list, then Champion offers a no-quibble out-of-the-box solution; just as many of the other specialities do.
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