Michigan2
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Posts posted by Michigan2
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Hiromoon said:
LordZon said:
Is there any way to add Sisters of Battle to Deathwatch? I actuall play in a six person Dark Heresy game. And my wife and the GM's wife play female charecters in Dark Heresy.
So, I guess my question is two part. How can I get our wives interested in Death Watch? Could we work in Sisters some how? Just an idea.
Well, try having them spend something like 3000xp on either a SoB, an Assassin or an Inquisitor. Heck, let them make a Navigator since Astartes ships have them on board.
Someone did the xp calculation to figure out how to make a comparable non-Astartes character to play in Death Watch.
Yeah, that "someone" was Fantasy Flight Games. Like I said in the second post in this thread, there is a sidebar in the Deathwatch core rule book that lists the exact total. A character from DH or RT will not be an exact equal - DH characters often lack the "staying power" in combat but make up for it with massive skills, and RT characters generally pale in comparisson to either combat-wise, but the resources and skill set of RT characters in incredible.
That said, they have their own quirks that GMs need to consider. I mean, you think a properly tooled-up Devastator Marine can shred hordes? Wait until Captain Harlock calls in an orbital bombardment...
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Its a thread about a minor detail in an overly-complicated game of Let's Pretend, based on a game played with Toy Soldiers and Plastic Tanks. Serious is what I do at when I'm work.
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The (true) Crux Terminatus used as a shoulderpad on Tactical Dreadnought Armor (aka Terminator Armor) is said to contain a shard of the Emperor's own armor; these are incredibly rare and one of the many reasons most chapters have far less than the hundred suits called for by the Codex Astartes. The "by the book" Ultramarines had only something like 80 to 90 suits, chapter-wide, prior to the Tyrannid invasion.
Marines in power armor that have earned Terminator Honors display a badge or icon in the shape of a Crux Terminatus, usually as a pendant on a chain around the neck or hanging from the belt. Also, the Codex Astartes allows for an incredibly amount of flexibility in the personal heraldry of marines that have earned the prestige and honor to be allowed to display personal heraldry. I'd say, by the time a marine has done enough to earn Terminator Honors, they've long since earned the right to personal heraldry.
As for Deathwatch Terminators, which Games Workshop has yet to create unique models for, I'd take some cues from the Grey Knight Terminator display theit Chapter Badge on the shoulder typically used for the Crux Terminatus. The Terminator suits shown being worn by Inquistors typically have a Rosette (y'know, the =I= badge) displayed in that spot. My theory is that their service in/to the Emperor's Holy Inquisition takes precedence over display of Terminator Honors.
Remember, the amount of detail on mass produced and amature painted 28mm toy soldiers pales in comparrisson to the splendor and glory that "real" Astartes armor would have. We just cannot "see" the icons, hearldry, and markings.
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Please, this is a universe where space vikings, space romans, space knights, space celts, space jesuits, and space renaissance italians regularly get into swordfights with space elves, space goblins, and space robot-mummies.
Would wearing lipstick in battle be that out of place in a universe where hundred-foot tall, walking, weaponized, cathedrals are a common tool of war?
Join the Titan Legions! See the Universe! (Try not to get stepped on.)
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I can recall having this argument the weekend after that damned article by Preistly was first seen in print. My chapter has female marines in it, and so does my Warhammer 40K universe. It suits me and mine, which is all that really matters.
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When a Space Marine is seconded to the Deathwatch, he ritually repaints his armour black, leaving only his Chapter insignia unobscured. This is to ensure that the suit's machine spirit is not angered. The shoulder pad bearing the untouched symbol is then shifted to the right side and the ornate shoulderpad of the Deathwatch replaces it on the Marine's left shoulder, signifying to the enemies of mankind that the Marine serves the Deathwatch first and foremost whilst he is seconded to the Inquisition. The left arm of the Marine is also painted silver to match the Deathwatch pad. When the Marine returns to his chapter, he is allowed to bear the icon of the Deathwatch if he so wishes.
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Or, make a bog-standard first-rank Deathwatch character, say, an Assault Marine with a penchant for flamers and two-handed chainswords, but call the character a Sister of Battle. The character would be on a perfectly even-footing with all of the Astartes and "in-universe" would just be an incredibly bad-ass member of the Adepta Sororitas, which is exactly the sort of sister that would wind up getting attached to a kill-team.
This is, imho, the simplest way to include a female character of equal power to the male marines if you insist on following the "all-boys club" bit.
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Nimon said:
The whole point of this thread was that their is not a good "recon" type specialty. Initially space marine scouts are the new guys in the 10th company, what represents a seasoned scout type?There are plenty of seasoned Scouts in a codex-adherent 10th company; the sergeants, captain(s), command staff, etcetera. Including some legendary characters like the Ultramarine's Veteran Sergeant Telion. Several noncodex-adherent chapters have only full marines in their Scout units (such as the Space Wolves) or have "special ops" groups of full marines operating in Scout roles.Nimon said:Those are the page numbers for the armoury yes, I was asking you for the page that says what a scout is and uses. You just said so yourself there is no necessity to stick to the weapons that the tabletop uses so why keep bringing up the needler, shotgun, bolter and missle launcher?I'm the one that keeps trying to bring the discussion back to the canon weaponry of the Scouts, mostly to try to stop the thread from going off onto a tangent about building a bigger, better, badder sniper rifle for the Scouts to use. Space Marine Scouts aren't Vindicare Assassins.The way I see it, Deathwatch is currently missing a speciality that acts in a "stealthy, sneaky, skill monkey" role, akin to D&D's Rogue or Thief class; Assault and Devastator Marines fill the striker role well, Apothecaries and Techmarines are excelent in the support role, and Tactical Marines are excellent leaders and/or jack-of-all-trades. But the omission of a proper Scout seems glaring. -
Bah, its one single sentance from the rulebook with a line being drawn through it. As I recall, the origin of the “all Marines must be male” bit of fluff first appeared in an article in a very early White Dwarf (#98) and not in any of the original rulebooks, although that artical was reprinted in the Warhammer 40,000 Compendium, circa 1989. This was, mind you, an era when Space Marines rode jetbikes, Harlequins could use Land Raiders, and the forces of Chaos did not yet exist!
Okay, sure, this one tiny bit of fluff that "because the zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types" all Space Marines must be male still exists; this twenty-plus year old article by Rick Priestley keeps getting recycled. SO WHAT!? I'm not playing in Mr. Priestley's campaign, nor is he ever likly to show up at my table... I want to have women and men in the Adeptus Astartes. So, I do.
Anyone who's got a problem with it, can talk to the Lighting Claw.
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Or, let them play a male character.
Or, let them play a female space marine.
For some reason, a large portion of the fan base regards both of these suggestions as heresy. But, if you and your group have fun, that's the only thing that counts.
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The core-rulebooks, supplements, and codices from the table-top wargame, especially from the first (aka Rogue Trader) and second edition, are a great source of background information. I especially recomend any of the first edition Chaos or Ork supplements, the second edition Codex: Angels of Death, Codex: Sisters of Battle, Codex: Imperial Guard, and Codex: Ultramarines.
These can be tricky to find, but are available in a wide vareity of places on the internet.
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This is the WH40K universe... the time-line isn't terribly rigid. Its actually not uncommon for ships entering the Warp to arrive at the destination decades before they left their port of origin. I seem to recall one Ork Warboss who proceeded to track down his past-self in order to kill him and get two of his favorite shootas.
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Not too mention, the studio would probably want GW to have the same canon when filming begins and when it wraps two years latter.
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Nimon said:
First thing you are right they are not just snipers, I tried to give them things like security and to reflect that truly I think there are alot of skills that they should have like survival and a bonus to navigation surface, but I figured the player could chose those from deathwatch, codex or chapter advances if avalible.The skills are there, but I wouldn't rely too much on the outside sources. Assault Marines, Librarians, and the rest don't need to lean on codex or chapter training to fill their role.
Nimon said:
Second thing-One Shot One Kill is what snipers do, they kill HVTs(high value targets). Funny how no one objects to the Devestator taking out a quater of an army in the first round, but give sniper the ability to kill one guy and suddenly he is over powered.The issue I have with your write-up is that all your special abilities are sniper related; I think more emphasis should be put on fieldcraft, tracking, and reconnaissance.
Nimon said:
Thirdly my gun is based more off of a Rail Gun, which is what I see someone with 4x human strength going after huge bug monsters and daemons using. You want to give em the needler go ahead use it as you want.Once again, I'm forced to point out that Space Marine Scouts use needlers, shotguns, boltguns and bolt pistols; Heavy bolters and missile launchers. There aren't any rail guns in the Imperium's armories (short of some oddities - that might not be canon any more - among the Squat Clans and Titan Legions).
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A squad of Exarchs? A squad of Exarchs?
Maybe when the Deathwtach starts deploying squads of Chaplains! An Exarch is the trainer, teacher, and instructor for the Eldar Aspect Warriors of his temple, we're talking someone roughly equal in status and expereince to a Space Marine of the First Company. A squad of "plain" Aspect Warriors should be enough to make a Deathwtach Kill-Team sit up and take notice... Defeating a single Exarch in combat should be a major coup....
A squad of Exarchs! A squad of Exarchs!
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The Apothecary is a badass and played by Doctor Who's own Commander Ridgeway!? I'm buying two copies.
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Except for the fact that for some three decades of existance, Space Marine Scouts have done all their sniping with Needle Sniper Rifles and not boltguns. Hard to be stealthy or precise with a friggin hand-head rocket-propelled grenade launcher. *Ahem* At any rate, when did this become a thread about snipers? Space Marine Scouts are more than just sharpshooters.
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Somehow, I cannot grasp why having a Vindicare Assassin being capable of extraordinary feats of marksmanship is a bug in the system...
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The experince point total is provided for you in the Deathwatch rulebook, in a sidebar in the character generation chapter.
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Space Marine Scouts have been a vital part of the forces of the Astartes since the days of Rogue Trader, yet the Scouts and Chaplains were not included as classes in the Deatchwatch RPG. Now, mind you, with the right choice of talents, skills, and equipment you can make a passable Scout using the Deathwatch Tactical Marine speciality... but this seems like the kitbash that it is. Why not have it as a full, proper class?
Usually among Chapters that adhere closely to the dictates of the Codex Astartes all the scout squads of a Space Marines chapter are just "Space Marines in Training," organized in the 10th Company. They are learning the ropes and still having the last of their superhuman organs installed before being promoted to full Space Marine status and deployment in one of the Space Marine Squads. (Until the most recent Codex they were promoted to Tactical Squads and then into one of the specialit squads: Assault or Devastator; Now, thet do it backwards.) Obviously, it would not be appropriate for the Deathwatch to draft these raw initiates... That's okay though!
The "trainees" in Codex Astartes adherent Scout Squads are always led by a Veteran Sergeant - a full marine with many years, decades, or centuries of combat under his power armored belt, who has been assigned to the 10th Company to train the newbies. This sort of character can be modelled rather well using the Deathwatch Tactical Marine class. But I still think we could use a more Scout-y Scout. Especially when you consider some of the non-Codex Astartes adherent Chapters' mant variations on Scouts: Raven Guard, Space Wolves, etcetera...
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In the first edition (Rogue Trader) and second edition of WH40K, Space Marine Scouts were issued Needle Sniper Rifles. These weapons were specifically noted in Warhammer 40,000: Wargear (1993) as having poor armor penetration. These days, they are just given something that looks identical, but is only called a Sniper Rifle... GW dropped the word needle along with 95% of the fluff that used to be present in their older books.
Frankly, I'd just up the range of the sniper rifle already in the DW book by 100m. Remember, this is an anti-personnel weapon, not an anti-material rifle analog to the modern day .50 caliber weapons. Although, I think one of the Dark Heresy supplements contained rules for the Exitus Rifle.
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Thanks everybody for the positive feedback (if only my Fighting Tigers entry was as popular!)
This thread isn't meant just for me to show off my ideas, anyone else who wants to throw out some Iron Snakes rules should feel free!
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TCBC Freak said:
Also, as far as I'm aware; most other chapters don't *know* (though many suspect) that the Blood and Dark Angels are deviating from the codex and or suffer from huge mutations. They keep it secret. So I don't know that the Red Scorpions would let rumors and innuendo affect them in their dealing with a brother chapter. Seems kind of dishonorable to me.Its a question of degrees; I would presume most Space Marine chapters are aware that the Dark Angels do not follow the organization of the Codex Astartes; You cannot really hide the existance of the Ravenwing or Deathwing or non-standard insignia... The fact that the Blood Angels and their successor chapters have "slightly" hyperactive omophage is known... The Space Wolves are known to poses the canis helix... Imperial Fists are know to be missing their Betcher's Gland and Sus-an Membrane...
Those in the upper echelons of Imperium (who have a need to know) do know that over time the Chapter's gene-seed may also change through genetic mutations, so that specific implants become corrupted, producing new effects in Marines, or becoming useless altogether. This is why gene-seed must be constantly monitored for mutations. Each Chapter is obliged to send 5% of its genetic material to the Adeptus Mechanicus. The first purpose for this is that it enables the Adeptus Mechanicus to monitor the health of each Marine Chapter. Secondly, it enables the Adeptus Mechanicus to store gene-seed with a view to founding new Chapters.
Of course, very few to no one outside these chapters will know the complete extent of some of these changes. "Okay, sure," thinks Joe the Ultramarine, "The Dark Angels wear robes and paint their armor all the wrong colors, and those Deathwing guys are kinda creepy... But, whatever, they've been around as long as we have and just have some funny traditions."
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JinxZero said:
Yeah, gotta agree, Streight Laced Gulliman knowling going against a decree absolute? Humm. Worth pondering. I imagine if Dan abnett were to write the book about the compliation of the codex, its pages would be painted in the blood of scribes shooting each others brains out in spectacularly improbabyl firefights...They shall be my finest bureaucrats, these men who give of themselves to my civil service. Like white clay shall be their countenance, and in over air-conditioned cubicles shall I house them. They will be of stale coffee and red tape. In grey flannel suits shall I clad them and with the mightiest typewriters will they be armed. They will be untouched by pitty or empathy, no sympathy will move them. They will have rules, regulations, and procedures so complex that no man can move them to any end. They are my bulwark against Efficency. They are the Redundant Department of Redunancy Department. They are my Administratum and they shall know no cheer.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm dying to see Codex: Administratum...
Just a quick question
in Deathwatch House Rules
Posted
ak-73 said:
My grief is with the limited amount of past histories. Instead they should erhaps have given some generic SM past event tables too (fighting xenos, fighting daemons, void ship combat, etc).
Its not terribly hard to make up some... especially if you aren't assigning hard mechanical benefits.