Scoates
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Posts posted by Scoates
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I chose to be a Salamander Techmarine. With toughness 50 (not at all high for a Salamander Techmarine), I am immune the measly d10 damage that fire causes. I take the machine trait, and I get to add my armor points to the fire damage I am already immune to. At rank 3, Salamanders become immune to being set on fire. Salamanders have early access to a special Adamantine cloak, which make them immune to fire. As an innate Salamander ability, I get a +10 to resist being set on fire, which I am already immune to FOUR TIMES OVER!
As for the fluff, I really like the flavor of any of these powers individually, but with all of the overlap, I'm feeling like little thought was actually put into it. I will never use any of these cool abilities, because fire could never have hurt me in the first place. When I reach Rank 3, my solo mode ability does not improve in any way, which is probably the worst part, mechanic-wise.
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Mental Ascension on pg 95 of Rites of Battle, says that a marine can double a characteristic bonus, "such as doubling his perception bonus to enhance his senses."
Either I don't understand what it means, or it is worded very poorly. If my perception is 43, my perception "bonus" is 4, and has nothing to do with a standard perception roll. Does it mean that I double that stat? That seems unlikely. Can someone point me in the right direction.
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I'm looking at the ability to add armor to fire resistance. However, fire deals D10 damage per turn, minus toughness. So if your toughness is base 50, you are already immune to fire?
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I'm really disappointed with the Techmarine Advance on pg 85 of Rites of Battle. After seeing that the tactical marine can start out with a combat shield, I got really excited to look up my advance. Techmarines pay 500 to receive a talent they already have, and one COMMON cybernetic. Who is going to spend 500 experience on a cybernetic that costs 10-15 requisition?
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herichimo said:
The Bio-monitor in your armour will take you out of stunned effect. But its not immediate. If you get stunned, unless you spend a fate point, you will stay stunned for 1 round until your amrour take you out of it. So stunning can still be dangerous for Space Marines, just not as much compared to mere mortals.
And yes, look at all the abilities you get from power armour and from being a space marine. They are quite powerful.
Re-roll T tests for poison/toxic
+20 bonus for ingested/breathed poisons
Breathing water
Ignore the effects of critical damage for 1d10 rounds (though not lost limbs etc.)
Re-roll pinning tests
+10 bonus to any test to resist psychic powers
Learning some skill for a while from dead enemy by eating them (Speak language being one of the many!!!)
+20 to strength after Unnatural strength (for strength tests)
2 bonus DoS on successful opposed S test, 1 degree easier S tests (Unnatural strength)
2 bonus DoS on successful opposed T test, 1 degree easier T tests (Unnatural Toughness )And more. Space Marines are Ded 'Ard!
What gives you the ability to resist critical damage for D10 rounds? I can't find that one.
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Thanks for all the info.
Is Stalwart Defense available to Techmarines? I don't see it.
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I'm creating a character who is not investing a lot into melee. I'm looking at the Dodge stat and the Parry stat, and Dodge seems all-around better for me (Parry might be better if I wanted high weapon skill for other things). Is there something I'm overlooking? Dodge can be used against ranged attacks; Parry cannot. Dodge can be boosted with experience to +20, but I don't see any skills to boost Parry, other than the defensive stat, which is only +10.
Let me know if there's something I'm missing, because I'm a Techmarine who wants a machinator array, so it seems silly for me to be dodging, but I can't justify investing in Parry, other than for flavor.
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I'm trying to make a Salamander who is also a Forge Master. I'm a little annoyed that they use different trades with roughly the exact same description. Can someone explain to me the difference between the Forge Master trade and the Armourer trade?
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I wonder if I'm missing something, but with a storm bolter in each hand, you'll still need some trick to get two different actions that allow you to fire, since you can't do the same half-action twice (HALF ACTIONS, 236).
If your player is using the two-weapon wielder talent, then even if he fires both full auto (which does not seem to be the intent of the talent), he is still at -20 to each gun, which equates to about four fewer shots scored (TWO-WEAPON WIELDER, 128). If the trait does not allow for full-auto fire, then you only get two shots, which is just about worthless.
I get why everyone is saying it is legal to HOLD both guns, but I don't get the justification for being able to FIRE both. Is there a rule I'm missing that counteracts the two I have cited?
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I'm comparing the heavy bolter and the plasma cannon, and I just can't see the numbers to support using the cannon against armored foes.
A Heavy Bolter, especially held by a devastator, will hit six times easily. Even against a heavily armored creature (like a Hive Tyrant), with average damage of about 30, this will cause around 30 damage, with multiple chances for fury. A plasma cannon is likely to do around 15 damage in maximal mode.
Against a horde, the bolter will kill seven targets, the cannon will kill three. Held by a devastator, the bolter still holds a lead, or does even better depending on how you read the rules.
It seems to me that the cannon is worse against heavily armored foes, and worse against hordes.
Feel free to check my math:
Ballistics skill 60 +10 for Motion Predictor +20 for full-auto +10 conservatively for size of target (+10 more if you are a devastator). On a roll of 50 (average) this means five degrees of success plus the initial shot.
Since our target's armor+toughnes is 25, penetration will simply be added in to damage total below
Bolter: 2D10(with tearing, an average of 14ish) +16 = 30 per hit
6 hits x 5 damage = 30 total
Cannon: 3d10 (average of about 17)+23 = 40
1 hit x 15 damage = 15 total and this can only be done every other turn...
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The RAW were confusing to me. Does a space marine ONLY suffer a penalty to Willpower tests when fighting a scary monster, or does he ever cower or scream and run?
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Charmander said:
Scoates said:
Charmander-
Isn't the point of Unnatural Toughness that your toughness bonus is doubled? Is there some place in the book where it specifically calls for the use of your base bonus and not your modified bonus?
As well with the power fist example, I would use the unnatural bonus, not the base bonus. Is there a place that states otherwise?
The power armor states specifically that the bonus to strength is applied after the multiplication from Unnatural Strength. To me, and in the spirit of the RAW, this is the only reason why the bonus is added afterward. If the book does not state that it is added afterward, then it is not.
But I am interested to see text that contradicts/corrects me.
Lastly, if you are interested in my calculation of the intelligence bonus:
I figure it is a primary stat for an Apothecary, and therefor you are likely to reroll it during character generation if it is under 40. You are likely to choose a chapter that adds 5, and you are likely to buy the first three intelligence increases at rank one. I think it is far more likely that many groups will not generate their stats randomly, but roll stats first and then assign them to traits as a house rule. This is likely to get your initial intelligence around 50, with a maximum of 70 easily attained in early ranks.
RE specifically the power fist, it states that the bonus is addative, not exponential (p155: "A Space Marine already doubles his Strength Bonus from Unnatural Strength. Therefore, the power fist increases the multipleir by one, tripling the space marine's strength bonus"). That was really the core of my argument...
Given that it seems like they're saying that your TB would go up to 3x from 2x for lightly wounded, but the description of wounded states they're taking the TB of 8 (which has got to be an unnatural bonus) and multiplyig it by 2 to determine your wound state. So I think you're right here, in that if being healed by a narthecium a Marine with a Toughness Trait of 45 would be considered lightly wounded at up to 24 wounds (TB of 8, x3 for the narthecium). Without it, they'd be lightly wounded up to 16.
I still disagree with critical wounds, as the critical wound section is separate from lightly/heavily wounded section, and specifically calls out that the character is 'critically wounded' when they take more damage than they have wounds. But in essence this prevents most marines from being heavily wounded at all provided they have someone with a narthecium in their party.
I also think it's up to your best guess on when the 1d5 from the apothecary's ability would be applied. To me, I read "doubles the ammount of damage healed by first aid" to come first as the first aid roll is all about your int bonus. Then I see "1d5 additional wounds with any successful medicae test" to come after mainly because of the wording "1d5 additional." As you can see though, I tend to be conservative and will default/knee jerk to applying bonuses after all the doubling has gone on. Maybe its from too many munchkin players over too many easily broken systems in the past that try to double doubles all the time
For your Int bonus, I see where you're coming from- I agree with not generating stats randomly (seems very old fashioned), and yes if you're concentrating in that area, 70 is totally attainable after only a handful of missions. Most of my players are rounding themselves out a bit more, so I think the 60-70 score caught me off guard.
My mistake was thinking I remembered how the power fist was worded. I get the argument better now.
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Charmander-
Isn't the point of Unnatural Toughness that your toughness bonus is doubled? Is there some place in the book where it specifically calls for the use of your base bonus and not your modified bonus?
As well with the power fist example, I would use the unnatural bonus, not the base bonus. Is there a place that states otherwise?
The power armor states specifically that the bonus to strength is applied after the multiplication from Unnatural Strength. To me, and in the spirit of the RAW, this is the only reason why the bonus is added afterward. If the book does not state that it is added afterward, then it is not.
But I am interested to see text that contradicts/corrects me.
Lastly, if you are interested in my calculation of the intelligence bonus:
I figure it is a primary stat for an Apothecary, and therefor you are likely to reroll it during character generation if it is under 40. You are likely to choose a chapter that adds 5, and you are likely to buy the first three intelligence increases at rank one. I think it is far more likely that many groups will not generate their stats randomly, but roll stats first and then assign them to traits as a house rule. This is likely to get your initial intelligence around 50, with a maximum of 70 easily attained in early ranks.
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The Deathwatch core rulebook says very little on how to use this skill, other than that the GM can set parameters. I've tried looking in Dark Heresy, but it only gives me rules for failing and destroying some of the products. Is there anywhere where it lists some suggested time frames, or requisition cost of materials?
For all I know, I it takes ten years and thousands of requisition worth of materials to create a suit of Power Armor. Or maybe it takes a few hours and it's cheaper if you make your own.
Can anyone point me in the right direction? House rules are fine, but I would really like to see something written down.
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Why is everyone adding the extra 1d5 from the apothecary AFTER doubling for a narthecium? I get 6-7 intelligence bonus, plus 1d5, and then double the total wounds, for up to 24 wounds healed per go, which is usually more than enough to bring a marine to full regardless of the damage he has taken.
Also, the Narthecium increases the lightly wounded state to triple the marine's toughness bonus (24-30 early on), which means a marine who has taken 5 critical damage, treated by an apothecary, might still be considered "lightly wounded" and healed to full.
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My GM has already ruled on this, but I have to satisfy my curiosity. Who would allow a Cameleoline Cloak requisition from the Dark Heresy Rulebook. Basically, it blends you in with your surroundings, making you less visible. Do you see any reason why this would not be compatible with power armor?
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Iku Rex said:
There are an awful lot of condescending Stormwind Fallacies being committed in this thread. Having a specialized or "optimized" character does not prevent role playing. In this case it makes perfect sense for a techmarine to obsess about overcoming the weaknesses of the flesh. And if it usually didn't - well, that could be an interesting RP hook as well.
Thank you.
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If it were listed as 13 AP, then it would go up to 14 for being master-crafted. The line had to be drawn somewhere. If that extra AP is already included, then that needs to be stated somewhere.
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ItsUncertainWho, I find your position ironic.
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Right, I forgot to list aggro in my list of complications. Currently, we're fighting Tyranids, which means I mostly just need to stand in front. When we are in cover against ranged fire, I tend to make myself the most visible target.
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It is already easy enough to maximize dodge (70 natural, +20 for skill, +10 for signature wargear) so I don't find increased dodge very useful. But the armor certainly is.
As for solo mode, starting out, the additional +2 to your toughness bonus is worth more than 6 wounds, since it will likely take more than three shots to kill you. I hadn't noticed how high it gets on higher ranks though. Still, it depends if you are taking lots of scrapes, or single massive hits. Personally, I would still take the Ultramarine's bonuses,
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I'm trying to make an effective tank class in Deathwatch. Partly because I feel like I'm not supposed to. However, I am encountering a lot of problems, and I was hoping we could pool our ideas to improve the concept.
Let me list what I have started with, and then some problems I have encountered. Please add additional build ideas, and any solutions you can think of. I fear it will be futile to ask that the thread be kept to RAW, since houserules have little value in my group.
THE GOOD
I chose the Techmarine for cheap toughness and multiple armor upgrades. I chose Ultramarines for the bonus to toughness and agility. Since you are not likely to roll a starting stat of 50, your best stat will be in the 45-49 range, which means the toughness bonus will give you two extra toughness initially and ultimately.
There seems to be no end to the defensive upgrades available, including somewhat hidden abilities, like Trade (armourer) and Evaluate. Early on (Rank 4) you can get some Artificer armor, which offers 13 AC to each location (as it is always master crafted). Opting to purchase a cybernetic in each location increases your toughness by 2 regardless of hit location. Masking Screen decreases enemy accuracy, and storm shield deflects shots while also increasing AC. (Depending on the reading of the rules, this may be interpreted as an illegal combination)
By the time you get your Machinator Array, your TB will be 18 in each location. Your AC will eventually be 13 base, +5 for The Flesh is Weak, +4 to multiple locations from your shield, +1 for master crafted Masking Screen, +2 for blessing your armor. Total average AC: 23
A shot of 41 will do no damage. With high dodge and defensive stance, you will automatically dodge the first two attacks per round, then have a 45% chance of deflecting additional shots (storm shield).
THE BAD
Defensive stance always takes a full action, which means you can't move in the least, and everyone else will have to move to get behind you.
Ultramarines offer no distinctly defensive upgrade options or powers. Some chapters have excellent defensive options, but you will give up your extra toughness, suffering two extra damage per hit.
Chapter trappings and Storm Shield improve Parry, which is practically worthless to this build.
Guarded Attack becomes worthless to this build (Dodge is already at 95+ percent), and thus the bonus gained from your Storm Shield. (If only Storm Shields let you use Defensive Stance as a half action, and you could move a little).
I tested with my Rank 1 character, and survived 10 out of 10 test Lascannon shots, without critical damage. But I want to tweak the build more.
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Agreeing with the first post, and probably beyond the scope of the first post:
I am a Rank 1 tank (Techmarine), and gaunts cannot even damage me. So it doesn't matter how many I am fighting, unless the GM invents some creative new rules.
Secondly, my group just tested a fight against a Hive Tyrant and he was easily shot down by four standard marines (no tricks, no house rules) before he had a chance to attack. Seeing as this was annoying to everyone, since we expected something more epic, we gave the Tyrant a round to attack, just to see what would have happened, and he dealt only ten damage to one marine.
I understand if you are interested in a different type of warfare, but I wish there were some sort of solo creature that could put up a fight. Three tough creatures simply cannot give the game experience of one truly awesome creature.
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It also works well enough if the GM increases the rewards to match the increased difficulty. But if you get nothing for itif the fights are designed to grind any team to the exact same state, then it removes the strategy of your character build.
Deathwatch Living Errata/FAQ
in Deathwatch
Posted
I don't want the GM to have to invent stronger fire to justify my abilities. In my experience, that usually ends up making me pay for my strengths.