The Dog of War
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Posts posted by The Dog of War
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**** ! Quite right ...lol....my brain must be addled (by Hastur himself, no doubt
!!) ....and I am rather tired, having just gotten off a 3rd shift overnight at work. For some reason....in my mind...I was reading X (in this case) as being the number of cards you chose to discard...ie the discard WAS paying the cost. Don't ask me why or how exactly I was thinking that !
Still...all that aside... this still seems like an awesome card....that could make milling through someone's deck happen pretty quickly, and have some devastating effects on their hand (if they don't want to destroy their deck) ....
Do you think they will ever reprint this (or many of the other CCG cards) in upcoming asylum packs ?
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Hey guys...I've been intrigued of late with the past history of this game, back to the CCG-version/era....
I found a site showing some pictures and text of various cards (some of them) from those days. Many I would hope they reproduce (like Norman Blackwood Sr. ! - I think it's cool seeing Norman B-Jr's - dad as a playable character - and he's not bad either !).
However...I came across one this morning that seems truly ludicrous. If I understand it's wording correctly, I don't see how it could not be an "instant win" card if you draw it . . .
(wish I knew how to insert Pictures in these messages, by the way - if anyone knows !!!)
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Behind the Pallid Mask (I guess this is supposed to be what happens when you look at the King in Yellow, Hastur - full on in his "face", without mask)
Type: Event
Cost to Play = X
Action: Reveal and discard the top X cards of your deck. For each (Hastur) card you reveal in this way, each opponent must either discard 1 card from his hand (if able) or discard the top 4 cards of his deck.
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Ummm.....if I am understanding this right, it would be an instant win for an all-Hastur deck, assuming you got it in your starting hand or shortly thereafter. Basically....what stops you from playing this on (let's say) - Turn-1....and saying -
"I'll discard 35-cards from my deck, leaving me with about 5 or so left....meanwhile...hey, look - they are ALL Hastur cards ! Cool. Now you, my opponent, must discard your 5-starting hand cards..nice....now that still leaves 30 Hastur Cards which have just been put into my discard pile. Please discard 4-cards from your deck, for each of these 30-cards which you have yet to account for. I'll make it easy for you, that's a total of 120 of your cards you have to put into your discard. Oh...wait...your deck only has 50-60 cards, like most decks ? Oops ! Guess you just got "grindstoned" to death, to reference MTG decks of old !
Game over, I win !"
Am I reading this right ? How could the CCG even be played with such a card in the mix ? I must be misreading it or something....
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Yeah, I have to admit - Professor has a point there.....why include certain quantifying words in SOME cards - but not in others - if we are to assume that ALL of them have (in invisible words !) - those same quantifiers ?
Like...if they wanted Pulled Under to be ONLY your guys....why wouldn't they just have added the words, "Exhaust a character you control, with 2-Terror Icons to..." ?
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So there's no reason EVERY single Hastur Deck shouldn't be running with the maximum of 3-Power Drains, no matter what the theme / concept / idea behind the deck is then, right ?
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What did you ask, Manitou ? (out of curiosity)
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Since you've drifted to mention some of the older cards....get a load of this one I just read the text for !
Cthulhu, High Priest of R'lyeh
Cost: 7
Terror x2, Combatx2, Arcanex1 - Skill= 7
Villainous, Invulnerable
"All OTHER characters lose a Terror Icon."
"When Cthulhu is committed to a story, it gains "Action: Pay 1 to have all characters at this story go insane."
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That sounds pretty brutal ! Were all the old CCG-type cards that outlandish, relative to the ones we have in the LCG era ?
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Right - I see what you mean - Hellfury.... if they have 9-factions in a 60 card deck...and three of each card (to continue the format they have been doing for Yuggoth Contract).....then (if divided evenly) - you would only get 2-cards per faction with a spare 1-2 thrown in to reach 60-total.
And if they feel they have to heavily weight future AP's to get the Silver Twilight up to speed in terms of card-stock (with the other factions) - then who knows how many cards per AP will be ST ? 5-6 ? x3 = 18 ....so you basically could see 1/3rd of an AP all for 1-new faction...and the original ones might only get 1-2 cards for themselves. That is, I think, what Hellfury was saying.
- To JohnnyShoes - Okay...Magah's break everything, we know that now ....
- but..absent that one card/creature - it seems like the Ritual would have to be really situational...to POSSIBLY get a single Ancient One out 1-2 turns earlier...but since you will have nothing else out with him...and your foes would have whatever they naturally would have to that point...it seems like a goofy / gimmicky kind of card to actually get it to work. Had they made it "sac 3-characters" - for the effect, I would be intrigued...but 5-seems like too much cost and TIME...for what would amount to 1-single card coming onto the table for your side. Even if it's Cthulu, Lord of R'lyeh * - it'd be tough to see how you wouldn't be better off with 5-Cultists or other cheap guys PLUS him on Turn-6 (or 5 with Silver Twilight guys or Seekers of Mystery, etc).....rather than lose everyone...to maybe have him out Turn-3 or 4....alone. And that would be IF everything went right for you and you drew 5-cheap characters, the Ritual, AND your big guy ...all in your first 10-cards or so.....
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I find it interesting how many varied opinions (Dam and Manitou, just to point to a few !) - there are on something so fundamental and basic (from a card / rarity perspective I mean) - as Power Drain ! - a card that comes with the starting Box Set for the game !
On one hand, Dam is saying - no - it would not affect Azathoth.....and on the other Manitou is saying it not only affects Azathoth, but cards like Thomas Malone (and others with Action: ..... printed on them somewhere and an effect following) !
This seems like a massive difference in opinion - way to play - on even one of the basic cards you get when first buying the game ? This is strange, no ?
Like...if it were a brand-new card that no one had encountered in much play before, it might make more sense for it to be widely interpreted....but here with Power Drain, we are talking about a starting-box card ? - which has been out for some years now, right ? - and yet there are such wide interpretations for it...
* - also - on Azathoth....I know it says "Response" - ....and not Forced Response - but are you saying you think Azathoth CAN be put into play WITHOUT triggering his "destroy everything" effect ? - if so ...is that how it's formally played when that card comes out ? - Also, even if you could do that...is there any reason / time / point that you would ever WANT to NOT trigger his effect, if you actually were paying the 6-cost to put out his card ? He has no Icons....no Toughness (a bit nutty that they didn't at least give him Invulnerability, for being an Outer God ! ....) ....nothing....other than his "blow everything away" effect ? So I don't think there would ever be a time that you would NOT want his kill-everything effect to activate...even if you did have that choice ...right ? *
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I might shoot a message over to Board Game Geek (Chris Long) - and ask him since he's played in many tournaments and is a past champion - how he's seen Pulled Under (and similiar effects like we are talking about here) - played in formal FFG-organized settings. That would at least give a semi-definitive ruling - absent a FAQ entry (which, as you both noted - SHOULD be there - considering how significant a change in the game it would make if you could / or could not - perform certain actions like we are referencing).
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The Ritual one seems rather....ehh....if I understand it correctly.
You have to first put out 5 separate characters....and then sacrifice each of them to the Ritual card.... at that point (and assuming the opponent just doesn't play a Support-location destroying effect by then !)...you get to remove the tokens and put into play a character from your hand . . .
Um....only way this could possibly be good was if you stuffed your deck with tons of cheap 1 or 2-cost Cultist types...AND some big stuff like Cthulhu or Yog-Sothoth....got all of these in your starting hand (or shortly thereafter on turn 2-3).... and put out, say, 2-Cultists on Turn-1.
Turn-2 you put out the Ritual Card ? (cost-3) - Maybe a 3rd Cultist, if you are lucky. Umm...okay...now what...you have to contest some of the stories your opponent is likely gunning for (or starting to by now).....with crappy cultists ? Let's say you hold off your foe...and manage to put out the final 2 Cultists you need for the Ritual effect to take off ! Yay !
What is it now, Turn-4 or 5 ? ...so you get to sacrifice ALL your characters in play (5) - to put something else (bigger) from your hand into play..... The most this could get you is Cthulhu or Yog or something else with high cost (in theory)...and you have 1-character in play now....oooh...scary. What stops your opponent from playing A Single Glimpse, or Deep One Assault, or some other combo to your mighty character instantly ? And how long and how many other things had to go into this to get one big character into play (what, a turn or two sooner than normal ?) - ?
Maybe I'm missing something..... -
I wonder why they didn't label it a "Forced Response" then ....Dam.... ? (Azathoth, I mean)
So if you are saying you could not Power Drain Azathoth's "coming into play effect" - that are you also saying that you cannot Power Drain the Ravager from the Deep's "deal 1-wound to everyone else when committed effect" either ?
See - the idea that you can use it to negate card texts seems odd to me....like...spells or other events - sure...but how can you use Power Drain to cancel Thomas Malone's special ability:
Response: After resolving a story to which Thomas F. Malone is committed, choose and destroy an opponent's Villainous or Cultist character that was committed to that story.
So...in the last "Actions May be Played" - box before you begin to resolve the Icon Struggles....you think you can play a Power Drain...and target Thomas Malone's "Response" ability - written on his card - and make it so he cannot choose and destroy an opponent's Villainous or Cultist character ?
This seems...odd...to me.... is this truly how Power Drain is used in formal competitions ?
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Well....I would argue (from my position of limited game-experience, I admit !) - that Pulled Under is quite different in wording than the idea of wounding an opponents Terror of the Tides when Your own one enters play.
Pulled Under states, at its only prerequisite, that you must exhaust a character with 2-Terror Icons....to choose and destroy an exhausted non-Ancient One character (pretty clear that the target of the destruction effect must be someone OTHER than the person who had the 2-Terror Icons, whom you just exhausted as part of playing the card).
Thus, it seems fairly intuitive that you could exhaust an opponents card - if the 2-Terror Icons were present (this is something FFG will have to clarify in Errata, I would think, because I can just as easily see them saying "Pulled Under; (Errata) - "Exhaust a character you control to..." - the next time they print up a FAQ). But for now, we have nothing to go on but the base wording and the way similiar cards work - so Pulled Under seems viable when used in this fashion.
Terror of the Tides seems different, to me, since it is a Character Card - for one thing (not an Event / Spell) - and furthermore, just reading it's actual rules text: Action: Pay 3 to put The Terror of the Tides into play from your hand. Then, give The Terror of the Tides 4 wounds....we can see it's very clear that it's talking about THIS exact Terror of the Tides card you are holding in your hand at that moment. If you pay the cost, you get to put THIS (the one you are holding) Terror of the Tides (card) into play .... THEN (when - oh, AFTER you put that card from your hand into play)....give..(give what ?) The Terror of the Tides 4 wounds (whose ? which ? - well...unless you are purposely being dumb - the one you just put down from your hand, that we (the writers of this card text
!) have been referencing for the past sentence !!!
So...Terror of the Tides would require you to be "extremely gamey / cheap" - and try and make the argument that everything on the card's text is referring to YOUR copy of Terror of the Tides that you have in your hand.....EXCEPT for the last part when it comes to giving wounds out....then THAT section can refer to ANY copy of Terror.... that's pretty weak, by any standard of logic / argument ....and is much different than the clearly open wording for Pulled Under, IMHO.This is my view, at least.
(also - let's not forget, as others have mentioned - Terror of the Tides is a brutally awesome card as is...especially when you DO play it from your hand - for what you are paying (3) - you get a really nice card, with Toughness+1 ....that can come in and surprise a foe who was on the attack and didn't expect another strong enemy monster could be in his way. If we actually felt that it could (in rare cases, admittedly) - be even FURTHER ridiculous, by killing off enemy Terrors just because it entered play after them....well....I think that would be "A Bridge Too Far". . .)
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Does anyone who went or has gone to GenCon - or other big tourneys - have any insight on how they play Power Drain there ??? I'm curious now too... as the ability to disrupt Forced Responses would be hugely powerful . . .
And, though this isn't a Forced Response in this case (that I'm going to mention) - Azathoth's "Destroy everything" text is listed as a "Response" - only....so are we saying (not even considering Forced Resp) - that a Power Drain, played after an opponent plays Azathoth....will result in NOTHING being destroyed...and Aza's text not affecting any characters or support cards (on either side of the table) ? Seems pretty ....umm....overpowered if Power Drain is able to do that...
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Interesting ....what store / club do you go to ? It'd be cool to have a place I could drive to on my off days (Saturday's coming up, for instance !) - to play CoC with other Chicago-based players !?
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Yeah - I would definitely second that (can only wound your OWN Terror of the Tides in a head-to-head match with Cthulhu) - as it would be "Cheeky" to the extreme (as the brits might say) to play it otherwise.
Also - thanks HappyDD ! - for your kind compliment. I try to ask good questions (when I do ask questions) and enjoy discussing / reading about tactical approaches to games like this (or wargames - like Conflict of Heroes, Memoir 44' - etc) that I've played in the past. Having a big base of players here with a wide range of experience and insight makes it all the more interesting to talk about these things with each other.
- Lastly - on Sirens - (Manitou) - I did end up taking them out of my current iteration, and threw in a few other Agency cards and characters to balance things out. I think I had them in because I wanted to use them in conjunction with Hastur, Lord of Carcosa (awesome card !) - but I need a unified theme for that, and Hastur costs a lot to be in a "rush deck" like this, I concluded.
I would welcome ideas from you or others as to how you could do a Hastur deck - (not relying on the Birds / Steps combo) - which focused on ideally getting him out and dominating from that point on....(or winning earlier, if possible of course). I almost think you'd have to do Cthulhu // Hastur if you went for a "big creature" type approach, since you would need their direct damage // removal stuff to fend off small-char-rush decks for the first 4-turns or so, right ?
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So you guys play it (and is it played this way at big tourneys like GenCon - anyone know ???) - that you can send in three or four Hastur characters to a given story, for example, and your opponent can send in his single Ravager from the Deep - to try and kill them all off with the Ravager's wounding ability....
....at that moment....you can say "not so fast !" - and play a simple Power Drain - and the Ravager's damage-dealing ability is nullified - meaning you proceed normally with the Struggles...and nobody gets auto-wounded from the Ravager's committal ?
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This is probably true....if I was solely going for the Steps - Birds - abuse - thing....but I was trying to make it not quite as cut-throat as it could be (IE - I'm not trying to copy the GenCon champs or French champs - Hastur / Agency - decks card for card - because that would be truly crazy good / overpowered / no fun for my opponent). This is why I threw in some lesser cards that would still be thematic for Hastur ....(like Sirens).
They cost zero...so it's not like (if the game went on for a bit) if I threw Victoria out...insaned' one of his guys ...then played a 0-cost Sirens to kill that guy - that I'd be losing all that much....and if the game is over before that due to Steps - Birds goofiness, than it doesn't matter anyways :-)
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Good points...overall.....one question on Silver Key though -doesn't that eventually hurt you (after one go at the story) - since you end up having to Refresh your guys at the start of the next turn (after they enter exhausted from the 70-Steps) ....and when you do that...they aren't allowed to commit to any stories any longer ?
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Hi guys. Today I got a pack of the Terror of the Tides - AP from an Ebay win (yay !) ...and I got to look at the Terror of the Tides creature card, as well as Endless Interrogation x3 from The Thing from the Shore pack which also came in the mail at the same time.
Anyways...a few things immediately struck me, and I wanted to bring them up and see if I am "correct", or what you all think about them, in general.
Terror of the Tides: (Cthulhu) - Cost-6 // Terror - Combat - Combat // Toughness +5 - 4 Skill
Now...that is "okay" for what you get there.....I guess....though I find 6-cost a bit high, the fact he does have Toughness +5 makes him nigh-unkillable to standard damage-dealing methods....so, overall not too bad.
HOWEVER...his Special Ability // Card Text is:
Action: Pay 3 to put The Terror of the Tides into play from your hand. Then, give The Terror of the Tides 4 wounds.
Now this is the part I find a bit ludicrous / sneaky / amazing. Basically, you are able to pay HALF the cost to play the card directly from your hand as an Action...meaning you can use it as a surprise Defender after your opponent announces which of his characters he is committing to which stories. The only drawback to this way of putting him into play is you must give him 4-Wounds. However...if you think about it....since he's Toughness+5...he actually takes 5-Wounds...before the 6th one finishes him off. So giving him only 4-Wounds means he basically comes onto the board as a 3-cost character with Terror - 2-Combat Icons - Toughness+1 ...and 4-Skill !
That seems like a MASSIVE value for resources-paid ...and actually makes it (seemingly) stronger than if you payed the full 6-for it (most of the time). I was even more surprised when I realized that it was NOT Unique...meaning you can throw three in a deck, and have no worries about having multiples out at once !
Am I right in thinking he's a great card that would be good in most Cthulhu decks, if merely for the "SURPRISE" - committing ability he can have on Defense when played directly from your hand ?
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Endless Interrogation - Okay...so I finally read this card. Now...the simple and easy way to understand this is you suceed at the story...throw this card out and make your opponents discard a card...then pay 1 to put it back into your hand. And that's it. That seems the way "logic" would suggest you play it ...and the way that the card was "meant" to be played.....but the Errata FFG have put out seems to take the card to a ridiculous level of power. Now...upon winning the same story in the above "possible" example of playing it....you pay the same "0" cost...and cause them to discard a card...but since they say you can play it multiple times "in the same event window" - after it is returned to your hand...you essentially (with just the 3-starting domains open for use) - can make the foe drop 4-cards with a single Endless Interrogation in your hand (the last time you use it you just don't pay the 1-to get it back in hand, yet make the foes toss a final - 4th card - from their hands).
So....I ask....this card - ON ITS OWN - seems quite useful in most decks (well, has to be Hastur / Agency - pretty much - or just Hastur, I guess since it's a zero-cost and only needs 1-Hastur resource in play for your side to play the card).
But when coupled with the Magah Birds - Seventy Steps combo......how does the opponent survive ?My Magah - 70-Steps deck has been crushing my other decks in solo playtesting (even with me trying hard against it with the opposing decks)....and now I am able to add Endless-Int. into the mix ?
Now...on the second turn...my opponents stuff will come into play Exhausted (assuming the Steps came out on my Turn-1, after the 3-Birds joined the action)....and I send in the three birds...taking 2-Success Tokens on each Story....THEN...I toss Endless Int....and do the above 4-card process...whereby my opponent is now down to probably ZERO cards in his hand....this assumes he drew his 2-cards on his Turn-1...giving him 7-cards in hand....put one down as a resource, then played 1-Character (Exhausted from the Steps) - from his hand....leaving him with 5-cards for when my turn rolls around...and I throw in the Birds and hit him with -5 Cards from the Endless Int.
How would any deck recover from that kind of abuse so early in the game ? (this is not counting all the other sneaky / powerful cards that I have like Victoria G. - Agoraphobia - The Sirens of Hell - Blind Submission - etc !)
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I have to say, Professor, that you are quite helpful with your advice and explanations. Your particular focus on my Timing Questions has been of great aid. Also, your suggestion on game-start is also interesting.
I have a few counter-questions to the things you mentioned though....
Resource Showing - is that in the rules (anywhere) that you must SHOW your opponent what cards you selected for your three initial Resources ? And are you saying you have to show your opponent future resourced cards ? Why - ie - where does it say you must show them or they can check whenever they want....it's not like your Discard Pile, where they can see the top card ...and even if it was.....are opponents allowed to randomly flip through an opponents Discard Pile any time they wish ?
Power Drain - interesting point...hopefully others will comment and let us know how this card is played in some of the major tournaments (Prodigee // Hellfury, etc ) ? If it CAN - be used to cancel even Forced Responses, then I should definitely be packing 3-of them in my Hastur deck !
A Small Price to Pay - so you are saying it's okay to nominate an Invulnerable character to take a Wound - which then immediately has "no effect" on said character ? This seems odd because I thought the rulebook specifies that Invulnerable characters "...can never be wounded or chosen to be wounded."
So if they can't even be chosen to be wounded...how could you use A Small Price to pay, with our example of Y'Golonac on your side of the table, and your opponent with the hapless Agency Groundskeeper I am fond of using for my examples
.... ? Trying to do the Terror/Insane flip-side....by saying you choose Y'Golonac to go Insane, and just wound the Groundskeeper....would also seem not to work since the Rulebook again mentions, "Characters that have a terror icon or the Willpower keyword can never (regardless of card effects) go insane for any reason, nor may such a character be chosen to go insane." - pg. 9 These references would seem to suggest you just could not play A Small Price to Pay - AT ALL ....if the only two characters in play are the ones in our above example.....no ?
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could you explain your thoughts with an example of how those 3-cards could (in theory) be used to slow down or stop the Birds / Steps Combo ?
- also - how do you possibly get 6-cards out of one single Endless Interrogation ? How would that be accomplished (I've not gotten that card yet, so I have not been able to experience it's silliness).
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Ooookay....so .... we have come up with several new questions, since the last time I put together one of these listings. Hopefully the helpful advice of the forum can clarify things as well as they did on the first Question List !
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1.) - Order of Play at Game Start: So...the way we have been doing things is ...shuffle our decks / cut decks if desired ...shuffle and cut Story Cards. Lay out our 3-Domain Cards (cards used to represent the domains). Then we each draw 8-cards...and assign three of them to our domains as resources. We now each have 5-cards in hand (we do this because if you want to Mulligan, you would do it there, before laying anything under your domains as resources - obviously). At this point, with each of us satisfied with our hands, and having laid 3-resources under the domains...we place out the three Story Cards, and then we then flip a coin // roll a die......and find out who "wins" the first turn. That person is able to decide to play first, or decline and go second (if they want).
We then proceed with play normally.
Our question, then, is are we doing it correctly ? Is there some set order to doing these pre-game steps ? I don't think the rulebook was particularly clear on that. Like...should we flip to see who goes first before doing ANYTHING else- even before drawing our cards and seeing if we want to keep the hands or Mulligan ? /// should the Story Cards be laid out so we can see what they will be before rolling for 1st Turn or drawing our hands ? - etc. etc. What is the "official /// Tournament" way that two players sit down across from one another and "get the game started" ?
2.) - Timing Issues: Magic: The Gathering had a fairly easy-to-understand mechanic called "the Stack" - which functioned off a Last-In-First-Out system where if you played a Fireball spell targeting an enemy....that enemy's player could play Counterspell, stopping your Fireball...but you could then play a Counterspell of your own....blocking the enemy Counterspell ! The result would be the two Counterspells would go into their owners discards, but the original Fireball would be left - un-countered...and would resolve on the targeted enemy. This made card interactions pretty easy to understand.
However...in Call of Cthulhu, I don't think there is a "Stack" concept. So many timing questions seem prevalent to me and my friend. As an example...consider a Predatory Byakhee creature (Hastur): Action: Sacrifice Predatory Byakhee to discard the top 3 cards from an opponent's deck.
Now, it's listed as an Action.....meaning it can be played in the Action/Event/Spell - "boxes" in the Order of Play - flowchart the rulebook helpfully provides. But the question is...how is it resolved when working with or against another card ?
Example: Enemy Player's Operations Phase....he pays 3 and throws out a Short Fuse card (give target 7-wounds), targeting the Byakhee. At this point...can the Byakhee's controller "activate" the Sacrifice ability, discarding the Byakhee (since he would die anyways from the Short Fuse) - and still getting the opponent to discard the top 3-cards from their deck ?
That is our confusion, so far. Since there is no "Stack" rule or mechanism...(Other than DISRUPT cards, which are rare)....then whose "Action" gets to take precedence and "resolve first" ?
Also...let's say the opponent doesn't play a Short Fuse...let's say it's the start of the Story Phase and the opponent sends in a character. The Detailed Turn Sequence // Flowchart - says after that "Actions may be taken". Okay, so at THAT point you (the Defending player) - should be able to Sacrifice your Byakhee, to get the discard effect to happen. BUT....what if the opponent, at that same point, wants to play a Shotgun Blast, targeting your Byakhee....again...what happens "First" - where in the rules does it clarify how "multiple Actions or interactions of cards are supposed to be resolved ?".
3.) - Bearer of the Yellow Sign // Victoria Glasser - If you overpaid for the Bearer, OR just put Victoria into play without having any other characters in play for yourself or the opponent....you would be forced to select YOUR - just put down character to be hit by the Insanity Effect, correct ??
4.) - Hound of Tindalos - can be attached to enemy characters.... but how and when can you actually "detach" him ? For example...let's say while he's attached, the opponent commits him to a story...and you block with enough Combat icons to win that struggle and wound / kill the enemy character that has the Hound attached to him. At THAT point...before the enemy character would be placed into his owners discard pile....are you able to pay the "detach Hound of Tindalos" cost - and put him back on "your side of the table", still alive ?
Also...let's say the enemy character (with Hound attached) ...uses an ability that he has to exhaust to activate (say it's an Agency Groundskeeper, for ease of example). So he exhausts him....and then you decide you want the Hound back on your side of the table to be able to defend against the oncoming enemy attack in the Story Phase. You pay the cost...and the Hound detaches and comes back to your side.....now....is the Hound "un-exhausted // Ready" when he returns to your side...or, because the character he was attached to was Exhausted before you brought him back....is HE also Exhausted upon rejoining "your side of the table" ?
Lastly - same question, but with Insanity.....if the Groundskeeper was driven Insane....could you (at that point) - detach the Hound and have him return to your side of the table ....and if you did that....would the Hound be Insane (on your side of the table) - because the Groundskeeper was Insane at the time you tried to detach him (the Hound) ??
5.) - Blind Submission: Action: Choose a character with skill 2 or lower. Until the end of the phase, take control of that character.
How does this actually work (or other similiar things like The Necronomicon) ... like....when should / can you activate it ? For it to be used to best effect, it would seem you'd use it "at the start of the Story Phase - where the "Actions may be taken" box appears in the Turn Sequence chart of the Rulebook. So then you would "gain control of the enemy character" until the end of "the Story Phase". At this point...do you pick up the card and set it on your side of the table.... if so....assuming you have full control of it...can you then (at that moment) use any of its special abilities on its card - exhausting it for an effect, etc - etc ?
Let's say it was something really useful like the Agency Groundskeeper - again - that can exhaust himself to Exhaust and destroy a target Location Support card. Say the enemy has Cavern of Flame and has been using it to good effect in your game against him. You draw this Blind Submission card though. It's his turn again...and he moves through his Phases, till he gets to the Story Phase... as he announces "okay, now for the Story Phase"....you play Blind Submission... and target his Agency Groundskeeper....and take control of him till the end of the Story Phase.
Now...at that very instant...can you Exhaust the Groundskeeper (who is now on your side and under your control) - and target the opponents Cavern of Flame for destruction ? - Let's say you try to do that.... at that moment (in response to your Exhausting the Groundskeeper) ....could the opponent try to stop you (again a Timing question) by tossing out a Shotgun Blast to try and kill off his own Groundskeeper before the "destroy location" ability is able to resolve ?
6.) - Power Drain - It says it can cancel an Action or Response just played.... it doesn't mention Forced Responses. I assume (pretty basic one here) - that these are excluded.....meaning you could not play Power Drain to try and stop the "Forced Response" wounding effect of a committed Ravager from the Deep. . . ?
7.) - Opening the Limbo Gate: - does the controller of this card (the one played it) - actually get to choose the revived Character to be put back into play for BOTH Players ? The way it is worded seems to suggest that you (the active player who laid down the card) gets to choose which characters are selected for revival. . .
8.) - Sacrificing Things - Can you use cards like Local Sheriff or Descendant of Eibon...to get around the "penalty" of having to Sacrifice a character to feed Cthulhu (or other similiar effects) ? What I mean is....you draw your 2-cards...at that point you must Sacrifice a character to Cthulhu....okay...you pick Local Sheriff. He is placed into your Discard Pile. BUT....you are still in the Draw Phase, and there is a clear box in the Turn Sequence section saying "Actions may be taken" - so can you (at that point) . . . just pay 1-to return the Local Sheriff to your hand, since he did in fact, "enter the discard pile this phase"... as a result of Cthulhu.
It seems like this would be fine / valid - but I thought I would ask for clarification.
9.) - Professor Herman Mulder - (Agency) - goes Insane any time there are 6-or more Characters in play. Seems simple....but does he ever come BACK from Insanity....if there are still 6 or more guys in play ....or does he constantly go from being flipped upside down (Insanity Effect) - to being Restored at the start of your Refresh Phase...(turned to Exhausted) ...and then (because there are still 6 or more characters in play) - IMMEDIATELY get flipped back over to fully Insane again ?
10.) - Small Price to Pay - The way the card is worded, it seems the only things you need for it to "be played" - are two characters in play - one on your side, and the other on the opponents side. You play this card... and "nominate" two cards/characters. Then you say "that one goes Insane, and this one is wounded".
Question: If you controlled an Invulnerable character, say Y'Golonac for examples' sake.....and your opponent had some character with no Terror Icons and lacking Willpower (so they actually COULD go Insane) ....could you nominate Y'Gol and that enemy guy.....have the enemy guy go Insane.....then "try to wound Y'Gol - but fail since he's Invulnerable and can't be wounded"..... in other words, is there any way to get around this effect by using an Invulnerable character (on your side) - or is the card not "allowed to be played" unless you have a guy who can either be wounded or go Insane ?
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That's all for now ! Thanks to any / all who can chime in with helpful clarifications and explanations of these questions ! -
Nice reply Hellfury - ! Very well said....and I love the D-Horror reference / quote. The dark mystery is part of the "chilling" nature of the Mythos that is interesting to me. I guess I just am trying to figure out the overall interests / goals of many of these entities - relative to each other.
Like...Bokrug... or Mnomquah....do they ally with Cthulhu and support he (and his cultist factions) goals for destruction or subjugation of humanity ? - - or are they completely separate and unaligned (despite the faction they are given in the CoC-LCG we play) ?And...are there ever Lovecraftian (or other writers) stories of interaction (directly) between various Old Ones // Great Old Ones ? - like...is there ever a story where Y'Golonac battles Hastur....or where Nyarlathotep fights or encounters Dagon or Hydra, etc - ? Like...are these creatures even AWARE that there are others (like them) active on earth (in one form or another) and with their own interests / goals - etc ?
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Yeah - basically...with the Mulligan Rule....you (me in my test games) tend to end up with AT LEAST 1-Bird and / or 1-Seventy Steps, with the other (if not in starting hand) - found shortly thereafter. If you get to go first..and play 3-Birds + 1 Seventy Steps (after the birds have been played) - you are almost unstoppable unless your foe is playing with some kind of Cthulhu / Yog deck with 3-each of Sacrificial Offerings, Deep One Assault, A Single Glimpse, Cursed Skull, and possibly Pulled Under. You have to hope to (on your first turn- before the Birds have been able to move in) - put down TWO of them and possibly put into play a character (hopefully !) - even if they must enter Exhausted.
With 2-resources on 1-domain and 1-each on your other two, you could play (in this order) Sacrificial Offerings (kill 1 of the Magah's) ....play a second if you have it ....and kill another bird - or play a Cursed Skull and pay to activate it...or A Single Glimpse, to another bird. With your other resource (if available), you might be able to play a 1-cost character (like Innsmouth Troublemaker or something similiar).
Now the Hastur Steps have some issues. They are down (hopefully for you) 2-Birds...and have 1-Bird left. They will probably play some other character though, maybe Victoria G. or a Nightstalker (who knows) ...and attack again...since your character has come into play Exhausted, you can't do much but watch as they put 2 more tokens (now have 4 !) on 1 other story (with the last of the Birds). You haven't gotten anything (Success Tokens) going yet !!!
It's your turn...your Troublemaker (or whoever) refreshes....and you add another resource to your domains....hopefully you will have drawn some other character destruction card....and if so, you can off the last bird or whatever other monster your foe has put out by now. Play another character and keep the guy you have there for defense (the birds die easily, if they are actually in a fight).
MAYBE - at that point...you have held them off and the game can proceed "naturally" - from there....but consider what the game board looks like now ? They have 2-Tokens on two stories and a massive 4-Tokens at the third !! You have (in this above scenario) ZERO tokens.... and yet you have a deck geared heavily for character killing...and have (we assume for this example) drawn "everything you needed" to try and kill of the Birds.
So if it takes that much "preparation and luck of the draws" - to merely "halt" the rush of that Birds-Steps combo.... what does that say about the combo ??
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- To Dam - I think, with the Mulligan Rule, that unless you have two really unfortunate draws in a row, you are not that likely to get more than 1-Bird in your starting hand. Obviously this can always happen (with the randomness of a shuffled deck and what you draw for the Mulligan hand)....but it seems pretty rare in my test games. Even if I do get two in the hand, it's still not a big deal, especially if I get a Seventy-Steps as well. I can pay 1 to play one of the Birds from my hand.....go fish the 2nd one out of the Deck and put that into play...and pay 1-legitimately - to place the third from my hand with my 2nd Domain. My 3rd domain goes to playing down 70-steps now....and the opponent is in the exact same "Oh Crap !" - position as if I'd only had the one Bird in my hand at start. All it has cost me is 1-extra resource/domain - but since it's first turn anyways, it's not like I have a lot of things to worry about saving that 1-resource point for !
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* * - One thing they might end up doing, is abolishing or modifying the Mulligan Rule. IMHO it should be used as a way to let a player get out from a wretched draw with 0-Characters - (which can be really bad in this game, as I have found quickly !) ....but there should be SOME penalty for opting to go for it. The way it is now, it is essentially a "draw 8-cards....if you don't get the cards you need for your opening-game combo(s)....announce Mulligan...reshuffle your cards and deck...and draw a fresh 8-cards...basically doubling the chances that you will end up with what you wanted all along...".
They might/should consider a penalty of 1-2 cards for going with the Mulligan....as in ...draw-8 cards...see what you have...if you really don't like it...announce Mulligan useage....reshuffle...but now draw only 6-cards....you MUST keep that second hand (whatever the 6-cards are).
That might make people a lot more hesitant to use the Mulligan...as the way it is now, there is absolutely no penalty (and thus no reason not to) for choosing to use the Mulligan Rule !
Dual Card Discussion - The Terror of the Tides and Endless Interrogation
in CoC General Discussion
Posted
Just to be clear on this debate....I totally support the "Wounds on Terror of the Tides must go on YOUR Terror of the Tides that you just laid out" - because that's just common-sense from reading the card ...all the other text refers to "that Terror in your hand that you are going to lay down by paying 3 ...." ....so naturally the following sentence about "give the Terror of the Tides 4-Wounds" - is also talking about that same Terror !
Pulled Under is one that is pretty vague though ...and much different, in my view, since there it looks like they PURPOSELY did NOT put "...you control..." , when they COULD have ...and when they DO in many other cases, with many other cards. So I think there is much more going for the Pulled Under argument, using "rules as written" - logic - than for the Terror of the Tides wounds' concept.
Still...FFG should / must - clarify ....if all it needs is a simple Errata: "Pulled under....should read "...a character you control..."
If that is the way they want us to play it ...then that's cool....but they should actually say so in a FAQ, so we aren't guessing on their main forum like this !