The Dog of War
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Posts posted by The Dog of War
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I read the FAQ differently... you are quite right.
I think I was confusing this with Cavern of Flame -for some reason - which repels the character affected from a story - AND Readies them.... for some reason, my mind thought it applied in general to gaining control of something during a story.
That does put a damper on the shenanigans you can do with Pulled Under during a story...though you could still use it in their Ops-Phase...and hopefully target a character that has exhausted to produce some effect (card draw or something).
Easiest way....just use it on your 2-Terror Iconed' creatures....like FFG intended ;-)
But thanks for pointing out my mental error here, Dam.
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Yeah - I think he (poster) took it like we were scolding him or something - no worries- and thanks to him for trying to start things off with some info for all. As J-Shoes mentioned though, the speed with which sets are coming out and all the new cards - means that you barely have time to think of...let alone create and play multiple games with...all the new cards / deck-setups / etc that even one new AP-can potentially provide.
I can attest to the Speak to the Dead card being AWESOME in my Yog-Cthulhu deck...in games so far. It's just amazing since I can do stuff like this on Turn-1.
- Play Journey to the Other side....locate a Deep One Assault in the top cards and put it into my hand (use the 2-resource domain).
Pay 1 - Yog - and put out a Cursed Skull (these are great as well - since they are cheap, and basically add to the Single Glimpse type effect for your deck, but you can get them out early and not have to pay 2-on later turns (only 1 and sacrifice) to activate them !
Pay 1 - Cthulhu (or whatever) - to place a Seeker of Mysteries (1-cost Neutral)
End Turn.
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If enemy puts out a creature....I can wait and on my turn, use the Cursed Skull up (or save the Seeker of Mysteries point the turn before and instead of putting her out, just use the Skull on my opponents turn to kill off whatever he puts out on his Turn-1 - either way...).....
- Put down another resource...Cthulhu... play a Silver Twilight Cultist guy for 2 ... attack some stories.
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They go again.... play something.... Oops.... I Deep One Assault it...dead. They grumble.
My Turn...again....resource 3rd time... play Speak to the Dead....discard top 4-cards... oh look, A Single Glimpse, and I think I'll take that Deep One Assault back too.- basically if I get a hand like this, I can usually "destruction-Lock" out my opponent in short order, while I take stories with peon Cultists !
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* * * - I'll ask this Rules Question here - since it's relevant to the Speak to the Dead I'm raving about...
Anyways...the way we have been playing this card is..... you pay 3 and "show it to your opponent" - IE you are playing it...but when this card is "played" - it goes to the Discard Pile. So we place it there. We then take the top 4-cards of our library, as the card directs, and flip them over into the Discard Pile. Now the player who used the spell gets to look at ALL those cards in the Discard Pile at that time....and pick up 2 of them to put into his hand. This COULD include the just-used Speak to the Dead, if they wanted, along with something else.
This is correct, yes ? We thought it seemed okay given the way the spell would resolve, and then it's normal effect...etc
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I think on the Priestess ....her wording actually says that when she's exhausted for her "reduction in cost" effect that it MUST be used on the NEXT Shub character that you play.... but other than that, I agree with your sentiments on her, possibly disrupting her effect to slow up the enemy at the early stages, etc.... so all good stuff there.
I also wanted to tell you that I had big success with the modifications you suggested. The Flanking Maneuvers were quite helpful in my playtesting last night, destroying a Terror of the Tides from my Cthulhu / Yog deck - which is pretty strong, I feel - and a Descendant of Eibon, against the annoying Shub deck that I'd mentioned in the earlier posts.
I also found Beneath the Burning Sun totally hosed all the Ghoul crap they had been hitting me with....quite a good addition, and the added boost to Agency Combat power is also helpful.
* a question on this - if Paul Lemond is out....normally he has ZERO icons...but with Beneath the Burning Sun he gets 1-Combat, just like other Agency guys, correct ? If so...then later on when he copies a Deep One, for instance, and gains their 2-Combat, 1-Arcane...he should still get to keep the additional (starting) +1 Combat from the BtBSun card....for a total of 3-Combat, 1-Arcane....correct ?
One funny thought I had was....has Night-Shift Security made Hired Muscle totally irrelevant ?
Both cards have 3-Cost....3-Combat...and Toughness+1.... but Night-Shift Security has an additional special rule // effect of:
If it is Night, each character you control cannot be chosen as the only target of an event card.
So...Hired Muscle seems replaceable in almost any deck since the cards are the same...but H-Muscle lacks this additional effect (even if it rarely happens or you lack Night cards of your own) ..?
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Let me be clear....(sound familiar ? lol)
What I was saying would be fun / sneaky to do in terms of Pulled Under ....would be the following sequence:
5.) Story Phase
Actions may be taken - neither player has any actions they wise to play at this point
(Active Player - Attacker) - Commits characters to stories. // Let's say he sends in Brood of Yig on one story, and a Hideous Guardian on the other one.
- Actions may be taken - (pg-15, Rulebook) - At THIS point...he has nothing further to play...but you say that you do....you (Defender) play Blind Submission, taking control of the Brood of Yig. The Rules // FAQ clarify that when you take control of a character "during the Story Phase" - they become UN-committed and "Refreshed" - and they are placed on "your side of the table" - so to speak, for you to control. Blind Submission allows this effect to last until "the end of the phase" - the Story Phase in this case.
Now...we are still in that same "Actions May Be Taken" - window. The opponent (Attacker) has nothing he wants to play in response to your taking control of the Brood of Yig...so the "do you want to take an action ?" - bounces back to us (the Defender).
At this point, we announce that...yes...we DO want to play another Action...and lay down Pulled Under....we pay for the cost of the card by exhausting the 2-Terror Iconed - Brood of Yig (whom we now control)....and aim the "Destruction effect" of the Pulled Under at the attacking Hideous Guardian.
The Hideous Guardian is destroyed.
- We (Defender) have no characters we need/want to commit to any stories, so there are no further Icon Struggles, and the Story Phase ends. A
- At the end of the Story Phase, we hand back the "still Exhausted" Brood of Yig character to our opponent. Now the opponent has no "ready" characters with which to oppose our attacks in our turn. So we not only thwarted his attacks on the stories....and destroyed one of his characters....but now we likely get to score unopposed Success Tokens on our attacking turn ! Yay !
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Hopefully I described it better there, Dam ! :-)
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Okay - on Things in the Ground then - I was interpreting it correctly - that it effectively bypasses normal resistances to Insanity, as part of its effect...
.....but hold on with Limbo Gate.... I understand there what you guys are saying about both players needing to have a character to play it....but how does that square with something like "Sacrificial Offerings" - then ? (Cthulhu card)
Sacrificial Offerings: -
Action: Choose and wound a character controlled by an opponent. Then, that character's controller may choose and wound a character.
Are you guys saying that, likewise, I cannot play a Sac-Offerings to wound an opponents character on Turn-1...before I've played a character of my own....because I - MUST - have someone out to take a wound in return - just to play the card ?
Or is there something "different" about the wording for Sac-Offerings that allows you to play it and wound an enemy character, even if you don't have any out of your own at the time you play the card ?
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Yeah, that's pretty nasty (Eyes in a Jar) - and gross - darn Mi-Go always dissecting things...
The Ghouls sound quite nice too.....and, something I've been looking to slip into my Cthulhu - Yog deck....isn't this pack supposed to feature:
!!! - I am looking forwards to replacing the two (crappier IMHO) "Great Old One" - versions which force me to kill off my own characters each turn, in addition to my foes'. With this new abomination, however, I can target ONLY my foe....and the big guys' Invulnerability makes him capable (in most cases) of taking stories solo, while blowing away 2-(average) enemies each turn....brutal !
Plus the artwork is awesome.
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You've been quite helpful here, Manitou, and I thank you.
* regarding the Performance Artist, the reason I didn't sac her to block the Priestess of Bubastis, was it seemed (in my mind) a waste of a card and a good ability - to use her for that capacity, since Priestess could just do it again next round, and - in theory - the Shub's could just lay something else - IE - they didn't NEED the Priestess effect to get stuff out (they had other units on the board at that point) - or in hand ready to come down.
Also - here's another Timing question.....when "exactly" do you trigger the Disrupt effect for P-Artist.....would it be:
1.) - At the instant your opponent says, "I'll exhaust the Priestess of Bubastis to..." (Do it RIGHT then before they say or play anything further...)
OR
2.) - (the opponent continues) - "...to lay out this Slavering Gug for only 4-cost, instead of the usual 5..." (Do it right NOW...as he's trying to place the Gug card onto the board. The Disrupt resolves and he must put the Gug back in his hand until the next turn when he has 5-Resources out, or tries the Bubastis Short Cut again.
Which of these is the "correct" way to play the Disrupt effect ? Though both result in the Slavering Gug not being played this turn (in this example), ONE of the ways allows you to actually see what card the opponent was planning on playing, so you can (sort of) plan against it your next round.... but the other way does not, and you have no clue if you were stopping a Forest Sister, or Y'Golanac the Obscenity - from actually popping out with less resource cost than normal, thanks to the Priestess of Bubastis' ability. . .
Hopefully you or the others can clarify this timing procedure for me !
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Hmmm.....I'll look at "Beneath the Burning Sun" - then - which will be funny...since I'll be designing a counter .....to my own (other) deck ! - but that's good, as it should carry through to other games against Night-themed opponents.
Any thoughts on "Flanking Maneuver" as an addition for enemy creature destruction ? - it would be handy when up against enemies with multi-wounds, which Shotgun Blast and Small Price to Pay - cannot handle (outright) - ?
And what would you suggest is "the right makeup" - for Agency Characters in this mix ? - if we used your 28-Character concept ...14-Hastur, 14-Agency ?
3- Unorthodox Psychologist
3- Undercover Security ?
3- Museum Security ?
3- Hired Muscle ? (3-Combat, Toughness+1)
2- Agency Medic or 2- Paul Lemond ?
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(current cards I can utilize for events, etc - based on my total numbers of each, in stock)
3-Behind Bars, 2-Shotgun Blasts, 2-Short Fuse, 2-Beneath the Burning Sun, 2-A Small Price to Pay, 3-Flanking Maneuver..... ?
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While playing solo last night, a thought came up - and a need for clarification from my favorite helpful FFG-people was recognized !
Things in the Ground: (Yog-Sothoth Support card) - Action: Exhaust Things in the Ground to discard the top 2 cards of each player's deck. Any characters that would be discarded by this effect are instead put into play insane.
Question: What happens when you discard character cards that could not - normally - go insane ? The situation in my game was using Things in the Ground, and flipping over a Servant of Nodens (has Terror Icon) and Yog-Sothoth itself !!! The card says if they WOULD be discarded, they instead get put into play "Insane"....but normally these two could never be Insane ?
I played it that this was a special case and just flipped them over (Insane)...restoring them on next turn, and finally turning them to "ready" on the turn thereafter, as would normally be the case with Insane characters.
Is this correct, however ? Is the fact that the cards "would have gone" to the Discard Pile - as opposed to being "in play" normally...mean that you can overlook any natural immunity to insanity that the cards normally have if played from hand or from another (more normal) effect ?
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Opening the Limbo Gate: (Yog-Sothoth spell) -
Play during your operations phase.
Action: Choose and put into play one character from each player's discard pile.Question: What happens if your opponent doesn't have any characters in their discard pile ? In other words...let's say you've lost a Guardian Elder Thing to discard effects ...but your foe has no characters at all in their discard pile. You want to play Opening the Limbo Gate..... what happens ? Do you get to select the G-Elder-Thing and put him into play....but your opponent gets nothing since he has nothing to select ?
OR - are you actually prevented from even playing the card, UNLESS your foe DOES have someone in their discard pile ?
Some clarification would be helpful ! -
This would support what Chris Long said over on BGG - then....that FFG (this game in particular) have often been lax in "proofreading" / - I forget the specific word he used - ie: sloppy - in terms of making sure their descriptions, etc- on cards are consistent and easy to understand.
- To Dam: So....a "gain control of enemy character" - effect can be doubly powerful...if used on their turn. Example...say they have a Guardian Pillar in play on their side...and an Agency Groundskeeper. They go to send in 2 other characters to attack a given story. You say...in reaction to that...
*** Dam - please check again on Page-15 of rulebook - cause I think we are saying the same thing, but I said it in different wording... basically...after Active Player Commits....there is an "Actions May be Played" - box. That is what I mean when I say "in reaction to" - I mean, you (the Defending player) are playing something at that point, but before you actually announce which of your characters will be committed in defense (if any) ***
.... (continued from above) ... you say, "I'll play this Blind Submission" card on your Agency Groundskeeper. He comes over to your side of the table. Until the end of the Story Phase, then, you have control of that character. After you have played that card...you ask if the opponent has any Actions they wish to play...they say "NO" and grumble that you took their Groundskeeper. You then announce (still in the same Action's May Be Played" window) - that you will EXHAUST your "just gotten" Agency Groundskeeper...to target and destroy their Location: Guardian Pillar !!!
Now you proceed with the Story Phase / Icon Struggles. At the end of this process, your opponent gets his Groundskeeper back....but here's the best part, from what we are saying here - he gets returned to them as he last was when you had him....in Exhausted state !
So not only have you destroyed their own Location card....but they have 1-less character available to defend on your upcoming attack, when your turn begins !
Blind Submission (and other similiar cards) =
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Yes - but the one me and my friend miss is "Call of Cthulhu" - come on, it's iconic ! How could they replace it with a crappy "Day or Night" card -search....meaning far, far, more limited in possible scope. CoC - was a great story card for ...CoC ....maybe it will return in a future "Official Tournament Story Deck" pack ?
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You probably didn't notice, but I actually have/had 2-Unorthodox Psychologists in the deck already (see listing in original post) - but I went ahead and added a 3rd one last night - and it seems okay so far.
On more anecdotal note.... I playtested (solo games) - several matches last night with this Hastur / Agency mix - against my Pure Yog-Sothoth deck...and another Shub-deck (mono as well, with some neutrals, including 2 of Mr. Jim Black's dreaded Descendant of Eibon
) ...and it keeps losing. The one game it was pretty close, with the final going 3-2 to the Shubs....but still...a few problems continue to be apparent.In theory, the deck is meant to be fast...and able to get into stories quickly and score early success tokens, whether or not 70-Steps hits the table. The problem, in practice, is all the characters are crappy...more or less...and keep getting stymied by enemy monsters on Turns-2 or 3.
The Shub deck is particularly brutal...featuring a strong Night theme that I tried to incorporate. I have cards like Twilight Cannibal, Ghoulish Hag, Ghoulish Predator...The Night ....etc....and 3-copies of The Setting Sun, and 2-copies of Terrors in the Dark to make sure I get the Night effects when I need them. I also have 2-copies of Shuggob, Ghoul Sage - who has the same "It is Night" effect - when he enters play.
What usually happens is something like this - let's assume I even get 70-Steps or Magah's in my starting hand, and even get 1st Turn.
HAgency Turn-1: lay a resource.... play 1 Agency Medic (1-resource tapped), pay 1 put out Performance Artist. Pay-2 (1) - and lay 70-Steps.
Shub Deck Turn-1: lay a resource... pay 1 and put Priestess of Bubastis down. pay 2 and put out a Ghoulish Predator. Sure they are exhausted, but just wait for next round.HAgency Turn-2: lay another resource... play an Unorthodox Psych.... all three characters go in for stories.... score 2-Tokens on 2 of them and 3- on the one that the Psych goes to.
Shub Deck Turn-2: Refreshes everything...draws...lays another resource. Plays "The Setting Sun" with 1-Resource Domain. Exhausts the Priestess to reduce cost of next Shub character by 1.... able to lay out Ghoulish Hag for 2. Pays 3 and lays out Descendant of Eibon (ughhh....).
Just sits there and defends with his Ghoulish Predator.
HAgency Turn-3: This is where things start to break down.. unless I draw a Shotgun Blast or Small Price to Pay...I am stuck in a situation where I have three puny characters, against an increasingly large enemy force with STRONG Icons and high skill values (none of the guys out so far in this example for HAgency even have Skill-3....).
My guys played this turn will still come into play Exhausted from the Steps...so there is a question of if it's helping or hurting me at this point onwards...the next turn (for the enemies), I'm going to be facing a wave of powerful creatures I have no reasonable way to stop. Even if I ...let's say...got a Shotgun Blast this turn...and killed off a Hag or Descendant...since it's Night, he can play the Hag again from Discard Pile...and if it's Descendant...he can always come back later in the game...plus the next turn the Shubs are just as likely to lay Hungry Dark Young and then a Forest Sister or something else with low cost from their hand, as part of Hungry Young's special effect....
It basically becomes a war of attrition that I cannot win since I cannot deal enough damage to these sorts of enemies with my "direct damage" cards (many of them like Twilight Cannibal or Ghoulish Predator // Albino Goat Spawn, etc - actually have Toughness as well !) .... or in actual Icon Combat (since the mix of guys I have seems quite weakish - in terms of "punch") - to stem the ever-increasing swarm of monsters on Shubs side of the table.
Also, since so many of their guys have Terror Icons...things like Agoraphobia don't work on them. And it's a lot of things going right if I manage to get a Scotophobia - AND - Agoraphobia in the same hand, at just the needed time to bounce something critical back to hand.
- By Turn-4 onwards, the Shub deck is hammering my HAgency boys with Y'Golanac, The Night, and / or - The Black Pharoah, Nyarlathotep ! There is just nothing I can do at that point.
Current Conclusions: - the Deck can win....but only if it gets both Magah Birds - AND - 70-Steps in the opening hand....AND wins the First Turn coin-flip // roll-off . . . absent that, it seems to be lacking something critical (at least against strong monster-type enemy decks).
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Great info, Joe. I suspect the French printers may have even asked FFG for clarification, prior to them creating the card/wording - or FFG did it themselves, then sent it out to French retailers (however the order is done). Pretty clear from that - plus all the other discussion - that you have to exhaust one of YOUR characters (or that you control) to do the effect.
Here's an interesting twist to it though..... what if it was your opponents' turn. He announces the start of the Story Phase. He says he has no Actions he wants to play, and starts to committ various characters, including one with 2-Terror Icons (say, Brood of Yig).... You (playing Hastur/Cthulhu) - announce an Action, and play Blind Submission - taking control of the 2-Skill Brood of Yig character, until the end of the Story Phase.
Meanwhile...he still has a few other guys committed to other stories. You then (in Control of him now, mind you) - EXHAUST the Brood of Yig (now sitting on your side of the table) ...and play Pulled Under...to target and destroy ANOTHER one of his characters, who are now exhausted from committing to the stories.
At the end of the Phase, the Brood of Yig is given back to the opponent (Blind Submission card's effect ends).
That would seem to be a valid way to use Pulled Under - while exhausting an opponents character - though you do have to have a combo with Hastur to pull it off, seemingly.
*** - Also - just a question, but when you "give back" at the end of the turn - a Character you controlled...do they go back to the opponent in the same condition they left your side on ? - IE - when you first take control of a character, committed to a story...the rules (FAQ) say they Refresh and uncommit, as they move over to your side of the table.....but if you then go on to Exhaust them (by using an effect they have or doing something like Pulled Under).. do they then return to the opponent's control - "Still Exhausted" - ?
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You mean the ones that grant Icon Bonuses to JUST your guys ? (like the ones in the Yuggoth Contract current cycle ?) -
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1 - I can throw Paul in - I have two of them, and like I said - Herman is fairly disappointing for me - in THEORY he's great if he comes out Turn-1..but that doesn't always happen, and after that he's crap - and Insane !
2- Peeler is there because he is cheap - and has combat (with Hastur cards seem to frequently lack). The attachment thing was/is a side-consideration to me. I can substitute others if you think they are better.
3- Undercover Security is good...but aren't they Steadfast (2-Agency Icons) - AND - Heroic ? - meaning, how would they coexist with Victoria Glasser ? (Villainous) - and the fact they need 2-Agency Resources to be on the table means I would need to consider boosting the total number of Agency cards ? - yes or no - to ensure enough resources early-on that I could actually play them ?
4- As I noted - regarding Dynamite - it comes in Antediluvian Dreams expansion...which is impossible to find in stores or on Ebay (USA) currently - for some reason. You can find the ones before it ...and the ones after it...but not it -weird. I will consider Dynamite though, when I finally get the card(s). Shotgun is sort of my fill-in, until I can put Dynamite in though, and Shotgun lets me direct the wound, without killing off my own character.
5- Why the hate on Short Fuse ? - 3 for 7-Wounds seems powerful to me, and is strong anti-big-guy deterrent ? Yes - its expensive if you're killing Cultists with it...but blowing away Hastur, Lord of Carcosa with one card (late game) - if it gets to that - is hard to argue against, no ?
6- I have another Byakhee Servant (2 Core Sets - I think that's where they appear) - so can add him in. Nightstalker seemed good since it invokes an extra Terror Struggle, and has decent icons for 3-cost (most of Hastur characters seem pretty crappy to me ? - is that true, or just my impression - ?).
7- I can add Performance Artist and Agency Medic - x2 of each...what should I for them though ?
8- Bringer of Fire I have none of - but will get at least 1-of when my big auction win arrives. I'll be sure to add him into the mix when able to.
9- I can toss 2-Scotophobias in, easy. What am I dropping for them ?
10- How many total characters do I want in this type of deck ? Lately I've been going 28-30 in my decks, with the rest Support / Location / Event - mixes.
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Hi all.
After reading about the concept behind Magah Birds + 70-Steps, etc - and hearing how effective it can be, I attempted to construct a deck containing those cards, and operating about that general theme (quicker win in early-game, with control cards from Hastur and Agency to stem enemy defenders).
I don't want the deck to be "the most cut-throat" possible - since I am using it in friendly games - but I would like it to be more consistent than it has been in my solo testing (against various other decks I've made since discovering this game about 1.5 months ago).
I should mention I currently have access to MOST of the expansions and asylum packs, excepting the earlier out of print ones (Mountains of Madness, Ancient Horrors, Spawn of the Sleeper, and Antediluvian Dreams - can't find this one for some reason !). I ordered a 2nd Core Set, on the advice of some players here and on BGG site that mentioned many of the strongest cards for each faction can be found in the Core Set, except you only get ONE of each - meaning much less consistency in those good cards turning up. By getting additional Core Sets, you can increase the chance of finding those key cards when you need them. Lastly...I wanted to note I have a THIRD (and final) Core Set coming as part of a big auction win (Ebay) I managed a week or so ago...the seller has (he said) at least 1-of EVERY set (including Mountains and Ancients Horrors !) - so I will end up with the additional Core Set Cards as well.
I mention that in case people want to suggest replacement cards such as "add another Shotgun Blast" - etc. - you can feel free to do so, knowing that (in a short while) - I actually WILL have enough of those cards to put 3x of each (if recommended) into the deck.
To Recap:
Theme- 70-Steps + Magah Birds - early presence / control. Supporting cards like Power Drain // Agoraphobia // Shotgun Blast, etc - to defeat enemy early-game defenders and allow me to access the stories without much resistance.
* Note - I don't want the deck to be SOLELY Steps-Birds focused...and mainly am looking for ways to improve it such that even if I got neither of those cards on my opening hand, I'd be able to still lay out characters and contest early stories with my opponent. In other words, I don't want to craft the deck so that it's a "one trick pony", if I can avoid it and make it more balanced / fun - even if that "combo" doesn't come up for me every game. *
Current Cards in Deck:
Hastur Cards-
3-Magah Birds, 2-Stealthy Byakhee, 2-Victoria Glasser, 3-Victoria's Protege, 2-Demon Lover, 1-Byakhee Servant, 1-Swooping Byakhee, 3-Nightstalkers, 2-Crazed Arsonist, 2-The Thing Behind You
2-Cavern of Flame, 3-Seventy Steps, 2-Agoraphobia, 2-Power Drain, 2-Blind Submission
Agency Cards-
3-Endless Interrogation, 1-Behind Bars, 2-Shotgun Blast, 2-Shotgun (attachment), 2-A Small Price to Pay, 2-Herman Mulder (Unique 1-cost Agency guy that has great stats for 1-cost, but goes insane when 6-or-more characters are on the table), 2-Peeler, 2-Unorthodox Psychologist, 2-Hired Muscle, and 2-Short Fuse.
Neutral Cards-
3-Moonbeast Captain
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Total Cards: 55 ( I would welcome ideas on what to prune to get this down to the preferred 50-card number, and also would like specific feedback on if you think I need more Agency cards to balance out the Hastur ones ? - or what to put in or take out, etc. Currently the mix is 32-Hastur, 20-Agency, 3-Neutral. I find the Moonbeast Captains are great since you get a huge value for 2-cost, and I usually have a Cavern or the Steps out to allow me the reduced-cost payment for them )
* - I also have been feeling....disappointed with the way the Hastur character mix is working for me. Any ideas on better Hastur creatures to use would be welcome ...and I think Herman Mulder will probably go too, as he's too unreliable a card - great if he comes in your opening hand...but less so if it's on Turn-4 or 5, when you and opponent have 5 or 6 guys on the table (and Mulder would get trapped in his insanity loop). Any better ideas for a replacement would also be helpful ! *
Thanks to anyone who can chime in with suggestions here.
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Sorry for the double posting here - but I wanted to note that the first two parts of my question here, were answered in the other Sub-Forum by the Champion himself
= so don't worry about anyone answering them.The only thing which remains, which I am curious about - is the part about "when" exactly the opponent can activate the "come back to my hand from discard pile" thing.... is it truly "for the rest of the game, whenever they could play an action, and as long as they have 2-Success Tokens ? (errata)"
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Wait a minute....thank you for your reply, first of all....secondly.....I think I noticed something.....you said..."...MY card....(emphasis mine)..."
Would I be wrong in thinking YOU are actually Mr. Jim Black himself ??!!??
If so...thanks so much for your comments - and please don't think I was busting on you (your card) ! - I love it's special effects, etc - just not when my opponent is hammering me with them (as has been the case lately) !
Note too that we have been playing it wrong (forgot to check the Errata) and have been allowing him to come back to hand, etc - for just 1-Success Token - which made it really hard on me since if he (Descendant) made it through to a story unopposed (as sometimes happens) - he'd pick up 3-Tokens. Tossing 1 later on, to get him back, never really seemed like it was hurting him since he could come back in (if needed) and potentially hit up that same story (taking it from 2 back to 5 and winning it instantly, if not defended).Also - because he has such a beastly combination of special effects - like Willpower - 2 Combat (FAST) - 1 Arcane (FAST) - 1 Investigation (FAST)....all for the amazing cost of 3 (compare what you get on him to ANY other 3-cost character and I can't find much that equals that), and that's what's been giving my decks fits of late (whenever he appears).
He laughs at Terror checks (thanks to Willpower) and with 2-Combat (Fast) - he handily beats MOST other 3-Cost Combat cards (many of the Gugs or Shoggoth-type things have just 1 or 2 combat..and they lose out to the tiebreaking Fast ability)...then scores a point for Investigation, and untaps/readies thanks to Arcane (most times) - lastly winning (most of the time) the Skill / Success check as well, thanks to 3-Skill (Fast). He's just amazing.
As for the concept of Champion's cards being powerful - that makes plenty of sense to me - as those guys worked hard to win and FFG was trying to reward them in a very unique (and lasting) way. I'm not familiar with the other two (Assistant to West and Mentor to Vaughn) since I don't think I've seen them in any of the Asylum Packs I've picked up since learning of this game and greatly enjoying it (the last month, appx) ... ? Where did they appear in ?
* For reference, the only AP's I DON'T have are Mountains of Madness, Ancient Horrors, Spawn of the Sleeper (first one of Summons cycle) and Antediluvian Dreams (third from that same cycle) *
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Lastly - this is just a Lovecraft / Story question, but perhaps you or another can clarify for me ?
- Dr. West: Is he supposed to be a reference to that Re-Animator doctor, who was always trying to revive people with his serum (movies I think) ?
- Vaughn - who exactly is Vaughn ? What is his role in the Mythos or the other Lovecraftian stories ? I assume he is a "good guy" and a friend of humanity...but where does he appear (like in what stories) and is he some Professor guy - a scientist like West, a Fed like the Agency types ?
- Eibon - same questions basically...like...who or what was Eibon (I say it in the past tense, since your card is called "Descendant of...") - and what is the significance of the Book of Eibon card that I have....like...is it something humans can use to defeat the monsters of the Mythos, or something evil that they (the Mythos types) want to use against mankind ?
THANKS for any and all info you can provide !
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Wait...do you mean "on the first turn they can actually go in and attack stories" - since you aren't allowed to go to stories on your Turn-1, if you go first in the game...right....or is there some special card combo or sequence of cards that a Miskatonic deck can get in their starting hand that will allow them to actually pick up 5-success tokens on a given story...and win it before the opponent has even drawn cards (had their half of the turn) ??? If so...please elaborate Manitou !
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I stuck a few of these in another thread in the other sub-forum (I think it was Deck Construction) - but we were talking (generally) about powerful cards from the past in there, and I wanted to get everyone's take on one I've found my friend using often in our games...that I felt was pretty darn powerful. I wanted to get some general observations on him from you guys, plus a few minor rules questions on him too.
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1.) - First of all...I was shocked to check the card and discover.....it's NOT a Unique ? - IE - you can have more than one of them in play at a time for your side ? Has this been errated...or am I just missing the "little black dot" next to his name, that signifies "uniqueness" for a card in this game. . . ?
2.) - For some reason...this card strikes me as grossly powerful for what you pay for it...even if you discounted his "special ability / effect" ..... 3-cost (Neutral) - for a 2-Combat, 1-Investigation, 1-Arcane.... AND 3-Skill.
That would be great for 3-Points....on any card, I would think.... but then they throw on Willpower AND Fast on top of that !!! Yet he still costs just 3.
Finally...as if that wasn't enough...they throw on a strong ability (more on that in my next question) which makes him almost unkillable if the opponent is doing anything at all in the game (winning a few success tokens). ALL of that....for 3-Cost. ? ? ?
This has to be the most ridiculous Cost - to - Card Overall Power / Icons / Abilities - card that is currently out, where characters are concerned at least...?
3.) - Lastly....here is the way the special ability for Descendant is worded: Action: Discard 2 of your success tokens to put Descendant of Eibon into play from your hand or into your hand from your discard pile. At the end of the phase, if he is still in play from this effect, return Descendant of Eibon to your hand.
(note that I'm using the Errata for him, which increased the cost to 2-Success Tokens, instead of the 1-printed on the card - which me and my friend had been mistakenly using ...even with this newly realized change...he's still pretty brutal)
Anyways...my question here is....WHEN can you activate this ability ? Pretty much forever...right ? I thought it would be balanced if you only had the turn he went into the discard to be "brought back to your hand" - and after that he was dead for good. But my opponent disagreed, pointing out that there is no "time limit // time frame" listed on the card.
In other words...I ended up killing his Descendant with a Deep One Assault. He went to the discard pile. My opponent only had 2-tokens on one of his stories, and wanted to hold off removing any, so he could take it next turn with some investigation characters (which I could not kill or hold off). So he took that story and about 3-turns later, he had gotten 2-more tokens on another story.
At this point (at the end of my half of the turn), he said...okay, I'll throw off a Success Token (playing by the mistaken on-the-card-printing of 1-token needed)....and pick Descendant back from my discard pile, so I can play him yet again on my turn.
Is that correct ? Is that how he should be played ? - basically he is unkillable (for good) as long as you have success tokens ? (note that it costing 2 now, does change how ludicrous I felt he was playing ....but even with that, he still seems - OVERALL - to be a really strong card, for a really cheap cost...)
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That thread you showed, Hellfury, was quite interesting. Long responded many times and made some solid points. I will take his input and just play Pulled Under that it must be MY guys getting exhausted (which is - I always felt - the intention of the card). He also makes an interesting point that FFG are very, very, very (he said it three times
) inconsistent at their wording / "templating" on many cards - and it causes unecessary confusion amongst the player base.He was speaking about the difference between some cards saying ..."that you control"....and others not saying those words, when they otherwise should.
Good stuff though ! I'm glad he chimed in.
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Could you guys explain what "On the Lam" - did that was powerful or useful and how it could be useful in modern Syndicate decks ?
I find these CCG references and past card discussions quite interesting !
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What was a Rainbow character and can you give an example of which ones (and how/why) were "broken" - overpowered ?
- Also - since you mention the Champion's Cards.....I have a few specific questions about Descendant of Eibon I thought I'd throw in here, since we are talking about it / them / powerful cards !
1.) - First of all...I was shocked to check the card and discover.....it's NOT a Unique ? - IE - you can have more than one of them in play at a time for your side ? Has this been errated...or am I just missing the "little black dot" next to his name, that signifies "uniqueness" for a card in this game. . . ?
2.) - For some reason...this card strikes me as grossly powerful for what you pay for it...even if you discounted his "special ability / effect" ..... 3-cost (Neutral) - for a 2-Combat, 1-Investigation, 1-Arcane.... AND 3-Skill.
That would be great for 3-Points....on any card, I would think.... but then they throw on Willpower AND Fast on top of that !!! Yet he still costs just 3.
Finally...as if that wasn't enough...they throw on a strong ability (more on that in my next question) which makes him almost unkillable if the opponent is doing anything at all in the game (winning a few success tokens). ALL of that....for 3-Cost. ? ? ?
This has to be the most ridiculous Cost - to - Card Overall Power / Icons / Abilities - card that is currently out, where characters are concerned at least...?
3.) - Lastly....here is the way the special ability for Descendant is worded: Action: Discard 2 of your success tokens to put Descendant of Eibon into play from your hand or into your hand from your discard pile. At the end of the phase, if he is still in play from this effect, return Descendant of Eibon to your hand.
(note that I'm using the Errata for him, which increased the cost to 2-Success Tokens, instead of the 1-printed on the card - which me and my friend had been mistakenly using ...even with this newly realized change...he's still pretty brutal)
Anyways...my question here is....WHEN can you activate this ability ? Pretty much forever...right ? I thought it would be balanced if you only had the turn he went into the discard to be "brought back to your hand" - and after that he was dead for good. But my opponent disagreed, pointing out that there is no "time limit // time frame" listed on the card.
In other words...I ended up killing his Descendant with a Deep One Assault. He went to the discard pile. My opponent only had 2-tokens on one of his stories, and wanted to hold off removing any, so he could take it next turn with some investigation characters (which I could not kill or hold off). So he took that story and about 3-turns later, he had gotten 2-more tokens on another story.
At this point (at the end of my half of the turn), he said...okay, I'll throw off a Success Token (playing by the mistaken on-the-card-printing of 1-token needed)....and pick Descendant back from my discard pile, so I can play him yet again on my turn.
Is that correct ? Is that how he should be played ? - basically he is unkillable (for good) as long as you have success tokens ? (note that it costing 2 now, does change how ludicrous I felt he was playing ....but even with that, he still seems - OVERALL - to be a really strong card, for a really cheap cost...)
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Wow...I just checked him out !
Ghoul Khanum (Shub-Niggurath Character)
Cost: 6
2-Terror, 1-Combat, 1-Arcane
Fast, Toughness+2
Skill: 3
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Response: After you win an icon struggle by at least 2-icons, put a success token on the story that Ghoul Khanum was committed (to).
Pretty brutal....as you could take 5+ success tokens in one go with this guy, completely claiming a story in that manner. The only thing that would be an issue (possibly) is his cost to play but there are probably plenty of ways you could get him in there using recursion spells, etc
Seeking Helpful Advice on my Hastur / Agency deck
in Call of Cthulhu Deck Construction
Posted
Ahh - great to hear back from you and thanks for the mini-clarifications within your reply. Also - good point on NSS - relative to HM. I kept looking at him and thinking...wait a sec...he's just the same as this guy (HM)....but he's got this nifty "if it is Night" ability tacked on...for free (costs the same) !
The only way it could possibly be "bad" for you, is if you had some kind of Event cards that "single-targeted" your characters...and thus you would not be able to use those cards if it was also Night... AND NSS was in play. But it seems like an awful lot of "possibles" - to worry too much about. Plus I don't think I know of many "Positive / Enhancement" type of event cards that are "single target" - and target YOUR characters...that it would even be an issue.
Seems like good defense against something like my Shub deck that tries to make it Night for all the Ghoulies to come out...