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The Dog of War

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  1. Yeah - otherwise that would be a bit powerful (too powerful) if Yog would allow you to keep throwing out Writhing Walls and Power Drains - infinitely (using some other card that lets you draw from bottom of deck or something). Heck - even being able to use them naturally once - have them in Discard...then use them again (double use per single card draw) would be too much, I'd warrant. One nice use might be something like double-shotting A Single Glimpse or Curse of the Stone against an enemy with 5+ characters in play. Curse of Stone (played normally) - enemy discards top 5 cards of deck since he has 5 characters in play....pay 2....use Yog's ability to play it again from Discard....now opponent discards another 5 cards of deck ! 1 card - essentially = -10 enemy cards from their deck. If enemy is only using 50-ish cards (fairly standard) - you have knocked out 20% of his deck with 1-card. Granted, all this requires getting Yog in play early enough to make a difference - but this is not that hard when you couple 3 x Seekers of Mystery with 3 x Doppelgangers - meaning essentially 6 Seekers (potentially). If you did some kind of Yog - Shub mix - you could get Ghoulish Worshippers in their too, for additional reduced-cost Ancient Ones.
  2. Yeah, you are probably right - well explained, etc. Do you think - that said - that it makes New Yog any less useful / helpful ? Can you still find times in games that his ability (in the right deck) could still be quite powerful ? // even excluding UR and (as Bright noted) - a weakened Journey to the Other Side ? (how many other Spell Cards are there to work with, if you discount those 2 from the mix ? - someone posted it once, but I forget -some of them are kind of forgettable, after all)
  3. Enjoyable debate, in any case. I am more or less neutral on the actual "way to play" New Yog - anyways. As Professor pointed out, I can sort of see both sides of the argument - and "in general" am okay with the concept of ONE card in the game "breaking" the rules slightly - because he is an Outer God // etc- and the fluff for him supports his manipulative abilities with regards to "time and space" - so if that's the "angle" the card-creators were going for when trying to assign him his special ability, I can understand that and don't have a huge issue with it. The problem, as we've all noted - is in the poor response / supportive commentary from FFG since this card was released (several months ago now) - when they could either do a single "official" posting in the Rules Thread here - which we all read - and then update the FAQ at their leisure, or just go ahead and update the FAQ now - even if only to include a few paragraphs about the new Yog card - given all the discussion it has generated. The fact that they are so slow to do either of these is confusing // frustrating for many players - particularly so when you think how often (and how easy) it is for any of us to hop on here multiple times in a week (let alone a day !) - and make postings on any number of issues (rules or otherwise). To think they couldn't assign someone from their "Card Creation Department" - or whatever it is called - to hop on an issue a "formal explanation // ruling" in advance of the FAQ - if need be - is pretty dismal on their part. And, I agree with the oddity of X = whatever you want - in that it doesn't follow any normal application of X. The main reason I sympathize with the UR-Yog supporters is because of Yog's "without paying its costs" - special exception wording. Normally - as all have stated - "paying its costs" - is paying some amount of resources (by draining a domain) - and that number is the Cost Value of the character chosen to be ressurected by UR. So if I have a domain with 3 resources on it ...and I drain it to play UR .... X = 3. Easy enough. In Yog's case....you simply pay "2" - the cost of Yog's special ability ...and are allowed to play the spell card in your discard pile "without paying its costs". Now....going just off of "how it might seem to work" (intuition) ... if I wanted to target Cthulhu in my discard pile (Cost=6)...normally paying the costs for UR would require me to drain a 6-resource domain (and play the UR card normally from my hand). But, because I've activated the UR using Yog-Sothoth's special ability, I get to activate the UR-effect "without paying its costs". Those who support the Yog-UR-interaction will say that, at that point, there's no reason you can't pick up Cthulhu and put him into play - since you: 1.) Pay 2 to activate Yog's ability. 2.) Announce the spell card in the discard that you are going to be playing with that ability; Unspeakable Resurrection in this case. 3.) As part of UR - "playing the card" normally requires you to pay X value to get X-costing character back. In all other cases this would still apply. 4.) Because Yog-Sothoth is a unique "special exception" to the standard rules on X, the Discard Pile, and UR in general - it does not apply in this case. 5.) "Without Paying Its Costs" - exemption allows you to ignore the fact you would normally have to pay X value to get X-costing card. Instead, you pay only the default "2" cost required to activate Yog's ability. Ugh. Anyways, the whole thing is pretty silly (IMHO) - one way or another because to actually make this whole "grand ability" work with UR in some dastardly fashion (originally people - including Marius _ IIRC - were hyping the usage to get Great Old Ones into play much sooner than normal).... you have to really have luck and some major early-turn planning go into effect. First, you have to draw your starting hand ...and end up with Yog-Sothoth, Cthuhlu (for example)....and several other cards to defend the first few turns with (Sac Offerings, Lord's of Silver Twilight, etc). Then you have to do the following things, before the "almighty combo" can work: Find some way to get Yog-Sothoth into play (combination of Doppelgangers and Seeker's of Mystery can do it - but you have to draw them, after all), find some way to get Cthulhu from your hand, into your Discard pile, happen to draw one of your Unspeakable Resurrection cards (or manage to get it into the Discard pile in some way).... then play the UR card "the first time" - from your hand, in order to get it into the Discard pile if not there already, ....and finally....activate Yog's ability...targeting the UR....so it can target Cthulhu. That whole sequence is so ridiculously convulted and complicated that I cannot see it working "consistently" in very many games anyways. In that respect, no matter how they eventually rule on New Yog, I'm okay with it - because even the "most favorable to Yog / UR interaction" ruling that they could make, would seem to have very little "actual game playability" potential ! (whew. Sorry for the length- english major)
  4. The main issue those defending Marius' interpretation for the card / interactions with Yog point to the fact that the "without paying its costs" - portion of Yog's ability-text should be looked at as an All-Encompassing "Special Exemption" from the normal rules which cover X-values, in the graveyard, hand, etc. In other words...in ALL other cases ....X WOULD and DOES = 0 ....(in graveyard)....EXCEPT in this one, unique, Ancient One - Outer God - special case where he is allowed to "bend the rules of Time and Space" (so to speak) - and ignore those normal restrictions. Thus, in Yog's case...you are allowed to state "what you want X to be" when you play his 2-cost ability ...becuase while the NORMAL cost of playing Unspeakable Ressurection is to pay whatever you want X-to be (to get back a character with that cost)...... Yog SPECIFICALLY allows you to play Unspeakable Ressurection "WITHOUT PAYING ITS COSTS" ....meaning for 2 (the cost of Yog's ability) - you are able to set X to whatever you want it to be ..."without paying (the normal) costs". I strongly believe this is the line of argument that FFG will eventually use when they rule in support of Marius' explanation of the card. In fact, when Mr. Hata (IIRC) - responsed to the big debate thread (quite a rare event, by all accounts at the time) - he said something to the effect of "Yes, Marius is someone who works WITH us - not necessarily FOR us ...and he doesn't design cards like our people do ...BUT ...you can all be sure that we proofread what he puts out and - in general - card interactions / etc - that he puts forward in his writings are looked at by our people to confirm if they are accurate or not - before printing." - (paraphrazed, if my memory is good on the debate) - - he also added that YES - 100% the Yog issue would be addressed in the next FAQ update.....but...that was some months ago, of course.
  5. One of the stranger things I've seen from Johnny Shoes (and this says a lot !) - was his seemingly having a conversation - complete with multiple replies to himself ! - WITH himself..... ohh ....my...has the madness taken me ? I still can't read most of J-Shoes posts without my head physically hurting and a strange sickness coming over me....I suspect he's an avatar of Hastur.
  6. * we were discussing this in an unrelated "The Cacaphony" - Spoiler Thread - in General Discussion Sub-Forum, but I figured it would get more visibility and discussion in its own thread here - also more relevant being "Deck Construction" Sub-Forum. Anyways, here's the last post I'd made in it (msommi reference is in regards to a possible turn-sequence he (msommi) - described in the posting just a bit above my last one - reproduced here) - just for reference in case any are wondering. ---------------- ---------------- Actually, Msommi's example would need both lesser Domains with 2-Resources on each to work as he was saying, but other than that - it might be okay. Here's the one way I can think this would have to play out for you to pull this off in any reliable way and make it useful / annoying to your opponent. First, make sure you have 3-each of I-Scholar and Safe House (obviously) - since they are the combo elements. Also, use your Mulligan "re-draw" on opening turn, any time you do NOT have at least 1-each of I-Scholar // Safe House in the starting hand. Resource as appropriate (at least 1 Domain with a Syndicate and another with Miskatonic resources). Try to win 1st Turn roll / coin flip / etc- this is luck, of course, but if you get the choice, opt to go first. Your Turn 1: Resource once, giving you 1-Domain with 2, and use this to play I-Scholar. * note this whole strategy fails quickly to an enemy Destruction deck - like Cthulhu or Agency, since they can easily play a Sac-Offerings or Shotgun blast at the end of your turn - or as soon as you play I-Scholar, to kill him off and totally mess up your combo plans * Your Turn-2: Assuming enemy doesn't mess with I-Scholar in any way in their turn, resource again, making 1-Domain with 3-resources, and use this to play Safe House (3-cost Syndicate card). Now...technically you could "start" the combo here...by sacking I-Scholar...and paying 1-from Safe House to bring him back to your hand....but this does little for you, since even though you can keep playing I-Scholar using the "undrained" 3-cost domain from the inital sacrificing.....you will end up (if you do it to the fullest extent you can) - with all your Domains drained...all of your opponents Domains drained....and I-Scholar back in your hand. The reason this does not help you, is that the opponent gets to Refresh everything right away on their turn...and you are "tapped out" with no Domains able to be used for anything during their turn. So, generally, you will have to wait. The one thing you could START to do to be "annoying" would be to wait until your opponent's Refresh Phase (happens at the very start of their turn, when they take off any Drain Tokens they may have on their Domains, and refresh any exhausted/insane characters)...and at the end of the Refresh Phase, but before they get to their Draw Phase (or later) - immediately announce you have an Action to play....and sack I-Scholar.... moving the Drain Token you had on your 3-cost Domain over to the opponents biggest Domain (likely a 2-cost one, if you got to go first and they resourced once on their Turn-1)....then pay-1 (using one of your 1-resource Domains that are still open) - to activate Safe House's ability and bring I-Scholar back into your hand. This is pretty annoying for the opponent, since you have an open 3-Domain and another open 1-Domain (assuming you didn't play another Syndicate or Miska character with it on your turn // you should at LEAST have the 3-Domain from having just used the I-Scholar's ability, so that's at least something). More importantly, you've knocked out your opponent's "big Domain" right away. Even if they resourced to it....the Drain Token remains....meaning they get no benefit out of it. This is fairly disruptive, since they may have had a 3-cost character or card of their own they wanted to play right then, and now they can't. The most they can do is resource to another 1-resource Domain.....giving them 2 (Drained) - 2 (just resourced) - 1 (starting resource) - for their current Resource Allocation. This also means they have less general resources to work with, limiting Rush decks to some extent. Your Turn 3: Again, assuming I-Scholar has survived, and you have nothing else to spend your resources on (questionable - maybe you want to play Intimidate or Low Blow or something to remove a blocker to a story ?) .... you would resource again, to one of your 1-res. Domains, boosting it up to 2. Your resource situation would look like 3 - 2 - 1, then. With this you could now drain all your opponent's Domains (again) - and have some open ones for you left over .......the issue is "how does this help me in the opponent's turn though ?". This is the part I'm left scratching my head at, though. What we need (to truly "Break" this Combo//Concept) is some card that allows you to play characters from your hand, as an Action - even if it makes them go to Discard or back into your hand at the end of the phase, etc. etc. Ideally, if we had such a card, we could wait till opponent Refreshes......then Sack the I-Scholar once....knocking out 1 enemy Domain....and paying 1 to bring him back to our hand. Then using the "play a character from hand, as an Action" - (imaginary card) - and put I-Scholar back into play..... then sack him again...etc. etc. - repeat till all 3 enemy Domains are drained. That would duplicate the dreaded Ithaqua, "Drain Domain of Doom" deck that dominated the CCG in its final months, from what I heard. Until we have such a card (and if one exists, can someone point me to it - maybe I'm just not thinking of something obious that could be used for this ?) ....the only way the "full Combo" can be duplicated is if you manage to get 2-3 I-Scholars into play at once. With 2 you could wait till your opponent's turn, then Sac / Buy Back with Safe House - both of them - to knock out your opponents biggest and second-biggest Domains - leaving them only one to do anything with on their turn ...and if they do use it ...they have nothing left to oppose you on your next attacking turn. With 3 you would utterly repeat the "Full Lock" of the Ithaqua decks....but, again, what are the chances you will be able to consistently get all 3 I-Scholars into your hands during each game you play, and get them into play, all without your opponent killing them off with any of his cards / events / effects ? One thing I can think of that would increase your chances of getting the combo off earlier....would be to splice in Yog-Sothoth for the Doppelganger card. 3 of these, plus 3 I-Scholars, would effectively double your chances of getting the "Lock" to work sooner. However, it's important to note that when the card the Doppel copies leaves play, you have to return the Doppel to your hand...so if you played I-Scholar...then played Doppel, copying I-Scholar......then sacked I-Scholar..... the Doppel would come back to your hand before you could use "its" copied ability. The only way to make this work would be to sack the Doppel *FIRST* - and then pay 1 with Safe House to bring him back to your hand. THEN sack the I-Scholar.....to drain another enemy domain // undrain one of your own. Ultimately, though....you still (for the most part) need some card that allows you to play characters directly from your hand - so you can use the Lock in your opponents turn (more than once) - without needing to have 2-3 I-Scholars in play. Sorry for the length, but I felt inspired and wanted to lay out some useful ideas or ways of making this function that I'd thought up. Comments or other cards I may not be thinking of are appreciated !
  7. I'd add that it seems to take a massively long amount of time for new FAQ updates to come out. Granted, you wouldn't expect FFG to be putting them out weekly or anything...but...I started this game in August of this year...so about 6-months ago. I believe the FAQ was new at that time (a few weeks old ?)....so we are talking at least 5-6 Asylum Packs, loaded with many questionable cards and new mechanics / concepts with them.....and we haven't gotten a new FAQ update. Not to mention, our French members (and Professor I think mentioned this once as well) - have had pending .....STILL pending questions they submitted which have NEVER been answered yet - in any of the previous FAQ's. So it's okay to say "submit question - get it answered in the FAQ" - but why make your loyal fans wait over half a year to get your answers - particularly when many of the questions - just look at the Doppelganger thread or the Yog-Sothoth // U-Ressurection (this thread) - discussions to see how many conflicting ideas and uncertainties have come up with just TWO cards. If possible, please have the FAQ updated once every 2-3 months ...that would be a bit more bearable. Fans of your great game should not have to wait half a year or longer to hear your answer to something that might have come out and been "confusing" - 5-6 months earlier.
  8. However, it's good to note that another annoying card (similiar to Binding) - called "White Out" (Hastur Event card) - cost 2 - says (IIIRC) - Play on your opponents turn.... choose a character committed to a story.... that character does not count its Icons or Skill". This is important because White Out does *NOT* use the "more restrictive" "Printed Icons" wording....it just says (effectively) - "whatever Icons the character has at this very moment the card is being played". White Out - WOULD - be able to neutralize Paul Lemond. However, it only comes in the Mountains of Madness OOP - AP - so I doubt you or opponent have many of them lying around. I thought I'd mention it though, as one potential option your opponent could use against you sometime.
  9. Actually, Msommi's example would need both lesser Domains with 2-Resources on each to work as he was saying, but other than that - it might be okay. Here's the one way I can think this would have to play out for you to pull this off in any reliable way and make it useful / annoying to your opponent. First, make sure you have 3-each of I-Scholar and Safe House (obviously) - since they are the combo elements. Also, use your Mulligan "re-draw" on opening turn, any time you do NOT have at least 1-each of I-Scholar // Safe House in the starting hand. Resource as appropriate (at least 1 Domain with a Syndicate and another with Miskatonic resources). Try to win 1st Turn roll / coin flip / etc- this is luck, of course, but if you get the choice, opt to go first. Your Turn 1: Resource once, giving you 1-Domain with 2, and use this to play I-Scholar. * note this whole strategy fails quickly to an enemy Destruction deck - like Cthulhu or Agency, since they can easily play a Sac-Offerings or Shotgun blast at the end of your turn - or as soon as you play I-Scholar, to kill him off and totally mess up your combo plans * Your Turn-2: Assuming enemy doesn't mess with I-Scholar in any way in their turn, resource again, making 1-Domain with 3-resources, and use this to play Safe House (3-cost Syndicate card). Now...technically you could "start" the combo here...by sacking I-Scholar...and paying 1-from Safe House to bring him back to your hand....but this does little for you, since even though you can keep playing I-Scholar using the "undrained" 3-cost domain from the inital sacrificing.....you will end up (if you do it to the fullest extent you can) - with all your Domains drained...all of your opponents Domains drained....and I-Scholar back in your hand. The reason this does not help you, is that the opponent gets to Refresh everything right away on their turn...and you are "tapped out" with no Domains able to be used for anything during their turn. So, generally, you will have to wait. The one thing you could START to do to be "annoying" would be to wait until your opponent's Refresh Phase (happens at the very start of their turn, when they take off any Drain Tokens they may have on their Domains, and refresh any exhausted/insane characters)...and at the end of the Refresh Phase, but before they get to their Draw Phase (or later) - immediately announce you have an Action to play....and sack I-Scholar.... moving the Drain Token you had on your 3-cost Domain over to the opponents biggest Domain (likely a 2-cost one, if you got to go first and they resourced once on their Turn-1)....then pay-1 (using one of your 1-resource Domains that are still open) - to activate Safe House's ability and bring I-Scholar back into your hand. This is pretty annoying for the opponent, since you have an open 3-Domain and another open 1-Domain (assuming you didn't play another Syndicate or Miska character with it on your turn // you should at LEAST have the 3-Domain from having just used the I-Scholar's ability, so that's at least something). More importantly, you've knocked out your opponent's "big Domain" right away. Even if they resourced to it....the Drain Token remains....meaning they get no benefit out of it. This is fairly disruptive, since they may have had a 3-cost character or card of their own they wanted to play right then, and now they can't. The most they can do is resource to another 1-resource Domain.....giving them 2 (Drained) - 2 (just resourced) - 1 (starting resource) - for their current Resource Allocation. This also means they have less general resources to work with, limiting Rush decks to some extent. Your Turn 3: Again, assuming I-Scholar has survived, and you have nothing else to spend your resources on (questionable - maybe you want to play Intimidate or Low Blow or something to remove a blocker to a story ?) .... you would resource again, to one of your 1-res. Domains, boosting it up to 2. Your resource situation would look like 3 - 2 - 1, then. With this you could now drain all your opponent's Domains (again) - and have some open ones for you left over .......the issue is "how does this help me in the opponent's turn though ?". This is the part I'm left scratching my head at, though. What we need (to truly "Break" this Combo//Concept) is some card that allows you to play characters from your hand, as an Action - even if it makes them go to Discard or back into your hand at the end of the phase, etc. etc. Ideally, if we had such a card, we could wait till opponent Refreshes......then Sack the I-Scholar once....knocking out 1 enemy Domain....and paying 1 to bring him back to our hand. Then using the "play a character from hand, as an Action" - (imaginary card) - and put I-Scholar back into play..... then sack him again...etc. etc. - repeat till all 3 enemy Domains are drained. That would duplicate the dreaded Ithaqua, "Drain Domain of Doom" deck that dominated the CCG in its final months, from what I heard. Until we have such a card (and if one exists, can someone point me to it - maybe I'm just not thinking of something obious that could be used for this ?) ....the only way the "full Combo" can be duplicated is if you manage to get 2-3 I-Scholars into play at once. With 2 you could wait till your opponent's turn, then Sac / Buy Back with Safe House - both of them - to knock out your opponents biggest and second-biggest Domains - leaving them only one to do anything with on their turn ...and if they do use it ...they have nothing left to oppose you on your next attacking turn. With 3 you would utterly repeat the "Full Lock" of the Ithaqua decks....but, again, what are the chances you will be able to consistently get all 3 I-Scholars into your hands during each game you play, and get them into play, all without your opponent killing them off with any of his cards / events / effects ? One thing I can think of that would increase your chances of getting the combo off earlier....would be to splice in Yog-Sothoth for the Doppelganger card. 3 of these, plus 3 I-Scholars, would effectively double your chances of getting the "Lock" to work sooner. However, it's important to note that when the card the Doppel copies leaves play, you have to return the Doppel to your hand...so if you played I-Scholar...then played Doppel, copying I-Scholar......then sacked I-Scholar..... the Doppel would come back to your hand before you could use "its" copied ability. The only way to make this work would be to sack the Doppel *FIRST* - and then pay 1 with Safe House to bring him back to your hand. THEN sack the I-Scholar.....to drain another enemy domain // undrain one of your own. Ultimately, though....you still (for the most part) need some card that allows you to play characters directly from your hand - so you can use the Lock in your opponents turn (more than once) - without needing to have 2-3 I-Scholars in play. Sorry for the length, but I felt inspired and wanted to lay out some useful ideas or ways of making this function that I'd thought up. Comments or other cards I may not be thinking of are appreciated !
  10. Yeah, I love the art on that card, and the effect is legendary....being able to neutralize even almighty Ancient Ones, IIRC. Only thing that is odd is that it's Cthulhu only, when they have Azathoth himself as a Neutral. Seems odd that they gave it to Cthulhu, seeing as they get a ton of good and useful cards as it is .... in fact, in most of my test games and actual games - it seems Cthulhu faction is the MOST able to "stand on its own" as a viable and powerful Mono-Deck (only 1 Faction) - compared to any of the other groups you could make. Sure others CAN be effective (mono-Agency, or mono-Syndicate Rush ....sometimes....), but Mono-Cthulhu is almost ALWAYS workable and powerful with tons of cost reducers (* I allow for a few Neutral cards, while still counting the deck as ...largely Mono - meaning you could throw in 3-Seekers of Mystery, to aid with Cthulhu coming out early*)......strong characters......Terror AND Combat (on many creatures).....and exceptional Destruction Effects (almost anything in the game can be taken out by the right Cthulhu card: Sac-Offerings, Pulled Under, Get it Off, Deep One Assault, etc. . .).
  11. Additional question came up in our games yesterday. I think we covered it before, but cannot recall 100%. When Doppel is in the Discard Pile...and you want to use an Unspeakable Ressurection on it ....what happens ? Also....can you play U-R on it....(paying, 3 for example) - and then announce it's coming into play as a selected 3-cost enemy character in play ? (say, Agency Groundskeeper) * - also, he's a good example....when you play Doppel, you ignore all such restrictions as Loyal or Steadfast (that would normally be affecting you if you tried to a play a "real" copy of a given card - instead of having Doppel copy one in play) .....right ?? - Lastly ....I had a situation (pretty cool by my opponent) - where I managed to get Yog-Sothoth (the new one) into play pretty early - like Turn-4....and things were looking good. Part of the reason was 1-Seeker of Mysteries, and then me playing a Doppel - copying the existing Seeker of Mysteries . . . Well...my opponent pulled a great trick out of his sleeve, just when he needed it. He used Demented Librarian to look at the top 3-cards of my deck..putting 1-on the bottom of the deck, and the other two back on top, in his chosen order. He then played Horrid Dreams - which I think is a 3-cost Miska card that makes the opponent discard the top card of his deck...and then that player must choose and sacrifice a card of the same faction (that he has in play) - if able. Since he had just gotten to RIG the "flip" - with Demented Librarian, he KNEW what I would have ....that's right...it was a Yog-Sothoth card. Result...I had to sac a Yog card (the only ones I had in play were Doppel and Yog himself). So what we paused for, for a moment, was .........is Doppel actually still a Yog-card at this point, and eligible to be sacrificed ? - - - or is the "exact copy" wording that the card uses, mean he is ACTUALLY a "Neutral Card" - with all the wording, etc - of a normal Seeker of Mysteries..... ? * - we played it that he had, in fact, 100% transformed into a Neutral card - and thus I had to Sac Yog...... - grrr..... well played by my foe, however ! Sounds good ?
  12. That is not dead, what can eternal lie, and with strange aeons, even dead Threads may ...... rise ?
  13. Exactly. Agree with Dadajef there. ;-) Sorry I was tired before....I tried to type a reply...then realized I had sort of dozed off at the computer...and all I'd typed was random letters at the end. Sleep, at that point, was sorely needed
  14. Wow...great question. Surely he - CAN - copy A-Advisor (ridiculous speed booster for Miska or Agency - if coupled with Yog) since you would basically be doubling the chances for getting "An Anthropology Advisor" into play - and increasing his effects when he gets there, very quickly. But the question you are asking is ....normally all Investigators get -1 to their cost to play (IIRC) - due to A.Advisor. You wish to play a Doppel, targeting the in-play A. Advisor....and you want to lay down the basic - (okay, I'm really tired now but will add more to this thought when I awake. Soooo tired from working long tim yesterday !!) - now sleep
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